The Ancient Profession 2023-11-14

[Highborn]

Great work with the Temple of Dibella quests, really enjoyed the story. I'm really curious to see what is coming next. I had one issue though, during the scene in Fjotra's house in Karthwasten. The scene got stuck and I had disable/enable Fjotra two times for the dialogue to continue. When I had to leave the house to give them privacy, when I came back, couldn't find Fjotra there after I talked with her parents and I had to use moveto player. Maybe this is all because I have The Great Town of Karthwasten, since that mod changes the cell of Emmon's house.

 

I also liked Rudhir's quest as well. But after I rescued him and had the threesome, I fast traveled to the docks and said goodbye to him, but didn' see Chases anymore. Is he gone from the game? I think it would be interesting if he can be a follower after the quest.

 

Still need to check the Bad Apple quest, but really great update. 

[ruddycray]

16 hours ago, Rattlesnark said:

Thanks for the recent pair of updates! I'm playing through the 'The Sybil's Homecoming' quest, and I noticed a quirk/bug with the questlog description on one of the last stages.

 

Spoiler:

  Hide contents

Once I've entered the shrine room at Broken Tower Redoubt, the sex scene between the Forsworn Briarheart and a random Forworn begins (as I'd arrived well in time before  the 4-hour limit, as per the guide). However, the questlog description for this quest stage still mentions that Gwynona had been captured and is being forced upon. Seems like it might not have properly accounted for the quest condition.

 

Something else entirely: Looks like similarly with 'The Price of Love' for Benjen (that I've inquired about sometime back - Tythis simply not having the relevant dialogue), the new post-3000-gold-earnings quest 'One Bad Apple' seems to be having trouble triggering for me.

It definitely says I've earned well over 4000 gold for both DG and Benjen on the TAP MCM. Both numbers are equal, I presume they track concurrently. This is the right number to look at, right?

Tried fast travelling to Whiterun's DG location some time apart, as well as checking for the NPCs mentioned on the guide and it looks like indeed the quest hasn't been ready-to-start yet (the guard outside the DG, Catia, Audhild - all absent from the world). Haven't quite tried walking to Whiterun DG naturally though.

How strange... Perhaps the earnings calculation isn't as I understand or something's just broken on this playthrough.

Also thanks for the bug report about the journal. Because of the way journals work, it's not enough to put conditions on them for when they should appear but also for when they shouldn't. I may have missed one of those shouldn'ts.

[ruddycray]

2 minutes ago, Highborn said:

Great work with the Temple of Dibella quests, really enjoyed the story. I'm really curious to see what is coming next. I had one issue though, during the scene in Fjotra's house in Karthwasten. The scene got stuck and I had disable/enable Fjotra two times for the dialogue to continue. When I had to leave the house to give them privacy, when I came back, couldn't find Fjotra there after I talked with her parents and I had to use moveto player. Maybe this is all because I have The Great Town of Karthwasten, since that mod changes the cell of Emmon's house.

 

I also liked Rudhir's quest as well. But after I rescued him and had the threesome, I fast traveled to the docks and said goodbye to him, but didn' see Chases anymore. Is he gone from the game? I think it would be interesting if he can be a follower after the quest.

 

Still need to check the Bad Apple quest, but really great update. 

I think he is gone but I like him and might do more with him. Or I might just do as you suggest and make him available as a follower.
 

I'll have to see if there's an incompatibility with that Karthwasten mod. It's very possible because I had to add markers to Enmon's house to tell everyone where to stand.

[ruddycray]

19 hours ago, Highborn said:

Great work with the Temple of Dibella quests, really enjoyed the story. I'm really curious to see what is coming next. I had one issue though, during the scene in Fjotra's house in Karthwasten. The scene got stuck and I had disable/enable Fjotra two times for the dialogue to continue. When I had to leave the house to give them privacy, when I came back, couldn't find Fjotra there after I talked with her parents and I had to use moveto player. Maybe this is all because I have The Great Town of Karthwasten, since that mod changes the cell of Emmon's house.

 

I also liked Rudhir's quest as well. But after I rescued him and had the threesome, I fast traveled to the docks and said goodbye to him, but didn' see Chases anymore. Is he gone from the game? I think it would be interesting if he can be a follower after the quest.

 

Still need to check the Bad Apple quest, but really great update. 

 

That Karthwasten mod is the cause of what you saw there. After the couple was speaking to each other from different floors of the house, when they should both be upstairs, I also saw Fjotra and Mena both disappear.

 

I'd guess a compatibility patch would be needed.

[assassin394]

Hi. Is it safe to upgrade from 0.13 to 0.14 when I'm in the middle of TAP quest?

[ruddycray]

17 minutes ago, assassin394 said:

Hi. Is it safe to upgrade from 0.13 to 0.14 when I'm in the middle of TAP quest?

 

It should be, yes.

[Highborn]

btw, I thought about an idea/suggestion regarding the Temple of Dibella questline:

 

 

What would happen if the player joins the priesthood if she is married/going to marry a NPC in-game?

 

I remember that the mod somewhat tackles the issue of jealousy with Jagar, when both are confessing their feelings and the player decides she will keep working as a prostitute and he accepts it.

 

In this case, being a priest is different, since it's not about the money but spreading Dibella's teachings. It's also a matter of faith and devotion. Would the husband/wife of the player be okay knowing that she would be having sex with other faithful? I think it would be interesting to have an (optional) sidequest to have a talk with the player's partner. Depending on how we do it, we could even convince them to watch the player and they would end up liking (maybe with contradictory feelings of jealousy/arousal or wholeheartedly accepting the situation, being proud of their wife's duty).

 

Or maybe to make things a bit more dramatic, the quest might start with the spouse himself confronting the player saying they discovered about her activities as a priest of Dibella.

[ruddycray]

10 minutes ago, Highborn said:

btw, I thought about an idea/suggestion regarding the Temple of Dibella questline:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

What would happen if the player joins the priesthood if she is married/going to marry a NPC in-game?

 

I remember that the mod somewhat tackles the issue of jealousy with Jagar, when both are confessing their feelings and the player decides she will keep working as a prostitute and he accepts it.

 

In this case, being a priest is different, since it's not about the money but spreading Dibella's teachings. It's also a matter of faith and devotion. Would the husband/wife of the player be okay knowing that she would be having sex with other faithful? I think it would be interesting to have an (optional) sidequest to have a talk with the player's partner. Depending on how we do it, we could even convince them to watch the player and they would end up liking (maybe with contradictory feelings of jealousy/arousal or wholeheartedly accepting the situation, being proud of their wife's duty).

 

Or maybe to make things a bit more dramatic, the quest might start with the spouse himself confronting the player saying they discovered about her activities as a priest of Dibella.

 

I have some ideas about things that can happen with your TAP spouse, depending if you promised to stop working as a prostitute or not. I'll keep those kinds of ideas in mind, especially as ways to have vanilla spouses react to your lifestyle. I don't really know when I'll get around to doing anything with spouses, though. They're fairly low on my priorities, even though I do have things in my list for them.

 

My near term priorities are going to be the big story quests, especially for Dibella's Garden and the Temple of Dibella. The DG quest line especially has been an "eventually" thing for too long. I'll probably also be focusing a little on some unique repeatable quests for the temple.

[xtrange988]

1 hour ago, ruddycray said:

My near term priorities are going to be the big story quests, especially for Dibella's Garden and the Temple of Dibella. The DG quest line especially has been an "eventually" thing for too long. I'll probably also be focusing a little on some unique repeatable quests for the temple.

 

Yes please, it can be minor things with already used characters.

Like Sassa inviting the player to share a night with her and Kleppr.

The Stallion Potion in TAP is pretty well integrated and could be a repeatable thing with Rarek and other "customers" that need it (old gumpy farmer Salvius? Gross Hogni Red-Arm if alive?  Thonar Silver-Blood is already a regular buyer, according to Bothela dialogue, depending on the route the player choses his wife inevitably dies. Old Calcelmo certainly will need it to keep his young lover happy.

Or helping the miners after completing Omluag favor quest with the Orc. Like a continuation of SL Solutions or an alternative, as the SLS resolution and dialogue isn't good in that quest. I really doubt the Orc would be satisfied with a single time and will inevitably mistreat the workers again. Instead the player could convince him to visit the Temple, regularly. I doubt a city orc would be a staunch follower of Malacath, he's already breaking one of his tenants, he has no tribe to protect or worse, abandoned his own.

Hroki (Arrogance in icelandic) seems very close to her father, as he gives her a lot of money. She probably is familiar with the Sassa affair and the Temple, and so her father's gifts act as a bribe. What if she decides to secretly seek instruction at temple? Her brother will probably oppose, and her mother. What would Kleppr say? 

Degaine talks a lot about the temple and his part in the quest is unfinished when using TAP. He never visits the place and the only reference the priestess have of him comes from a mod, Interesting NPCs, where a priestess says she doesn't share her sister's interest in Degaine. He seems selfish, rude and repulsive. Imagine if Hroki instruction had to involve Degaine at some point.

 

Overall Markarth is a city with lots of interesting things going on that aren't explored, Riften is the same but receives a little bit more of attention. 

Betrid Silver-Blood a former Dibella's priestess?

Rihada doesn't care about his husband Eltrys? She doesn't  uses her bed in the Warrens, she doesn't seem pregnant and her only dialogue expressing her interest in someone is for Yngvar.

Yngvar acts like a thug and extorts coins from Bothela. She's the only reachman with a store in the city and her grandson Odvan is in prison.

 

A lot of rambling. I hope something in there is useful or sparks an idea.

Edited April 28, 2023 by xtrange988

[ruddycray]

26 minutes ago, xtrange988 said:

 

Yes please, it can be minor things with already used characters.

Like Sassa inviting the player to share a night with her and Kleppr.

The Stallion Potion in TAP is pretty well integrated and could be a repeatable thing with Rarek and other "customers" that need it (old gumpy farmer Salvius? Gross Hogni Red-Arm if alive?  Thonar Silver-Blood is already a regular buyer, according to Bothela dialogue, depending on the route the player choses his wife inevitably dies. Old Calcelmo certainly will need it to keep his young lover happy.

Or helping the miners after completing Omluag favor quest with the Orc. Like a continuation of SL Solutions or an alternative, as the SLS resolution and dialogue isn't good in that quest. I really doubt the Orc would be satisfied with a single time and will inevitably mistreat the workers again. Instead the player could convince him to visit the Temple, regularly. I doubt a city orc would be a staunch follower of Malacath, he's already breaking one of his tenants, he has no tribe to protect or worse, abandoned his own.

Hroki (Arrogance in icelandic) seems very close to her father, as he gives her a lot of money. She probably is familiar with the Sassa affair and the Temple, and so her father's gifts act as a bribe. What if she decides to secretly seek instruction at temple? Her brother will probably oppose, and her mother. What would Kleppr say? 

Degaine talks a lot about the temple and his part in the quest is unfinished when using TAP. He never visits the place and the only reference the priestess have of him comes from a mod, Interesting NPCs, where a priestess says she doesn't share her sister's interest in Degaine. He seems selfish, rude and repulsive. Imagine if Hroki instruction had to involve Degaine at some point.

 

Overall Markarth is a city with lots of interesting things going on that aren't explored, Riften is the same but receives a little bit more of attention. 

Betrid Silver-Blood a former Dibella's priestess?

Rihada doesn't care about his husband Eltrys? She doesn't  uses her bed in the Warrens, she doesn't seem pregnant and her only dialogue expressing her interest in someone is for Yngvar.

Yngvar acts like a thug and extorts coins from Bothela. She's the only reachman with a store in the city and her grandson Odvan is in prison.

 

A lot of rambling. I hope something in there is useful or sparks an idea.

 

I'm always happy to read ideas like this.

 

I already have a few ideas for some things to integrate, and I have my eye on Degaine. My usual rule is just that it can't feel really, really weird when the person doesn't acknowledge that they've had sex with you, because it starts to strain the feeling that the things you're doing are a part of the game.

 

The quest that Sassa gives you was originally going to involve Yngvar instead of a mod character, but it turns out he can also be exiled to Windhelm, so I would have needed a backup character anyway, so the backup just became the main character.

[xtrange988]

Quote

I already have a few ideas for some things to integrate, and I have my eye on Degaine. My usual rule is just that it can't feel really, really weird when the person doesn't acknowledge that they've had sex with you, because it starts to strain the feeling that the things you're doing are a part of the game.

 

I know it's feels weird, that's why I don't like the other prostitution mod that organizes parties with random vanilla NPCs (the original version used new unnamed NPCs and was better). Balgruf, Belethor, Ulfric and one of the Greybeards... it was off putting. But with Degaine, you could get him so drunk he will probably not remember who was with him, only that happened, otherwise they will need additional greeting dialogue like Maiq. I think it depends of what lines the specific NPC has, normally a simple relationship rank increment disables most comments that might sound weird.

 

It already feels weird after a while inside the brothels, grinding for coins, when taking the customers multiple times and they doesn't even acknowledge the player and ask surprised if the player is a prostitute. In the military camps this is dealt checking the client cooldown but that doesn't keep track of how many times and if done with magic effects it could become a problem. Perhaps if for each time the player has sex with a customer, an item like a Dibella's Mark is added to the npc inventory, like a simple way to keep track of number of times and disable/enable NPCs replies to the player, depending on the familiarity. The NPCs in the brothel are non unique so the inventory resets itself anyway after a while.  I mean an npc with 20 marks in his inventory might know the player very well.

 

I didn't know about Yngvar. The civil war is a headache in itself that's why I only did it once.

 

[ruddycray]

12 minutes ago, xtrange988 said:

 

I know it's feels weird, that's why I don't like the other prostitution mod that organizes parties with random vanilla NPCs (the original version used new unnamed NPCs and was better). Balgruf, Belethor, Ulfric and one of the Greybeards... it was off putting. But with Degaine, you could get him so drunk he will probably not remember who was with him, only that happened, otherwise they will need additional greeting dialogue like Maiq. I think it depends of what lines the specific NPC has, normally a simple relationship rank increment disables most comments that might sound weird.

 

It already feels weird after a while inside the brothels, grinding for coins, when taking the customers multiple times and they doesn't even acknowledge the player and ask surprised if the player is a prostitute. In the military camps this is dealt checking the client cooldown but that doesn't keep track of how many times and if done with magic effects it could become a problem. Perhaps if for each time the player has sex with a customer, an item like a Dibella's Mark is added to the npc inventory, like a simple way to keep track of number of times and disable/enable NPCs replies to the player, depending on the familiarity. The NPCs in the brothel are non unique so the inventory resets itself anyway after a while.  I mean an npc with 20 marks in his inventory might know the player very well.

 

I didn't know about Yngvar. The civil war is a headache in itself that's why I only did it once.

 

 

The characters in the brothels aren't really meant to be regulars in the sense that you would get to know them. I'm not opposed to having some things like that, but they're really just meant to be randoms.

 

For more stable characters, it would be possible to use faction ranks. Some kind of inventory token might also work. The token approach is how innkeepers remember if you've worked for them before.

 

I wasn't suggesting that I thought Degaine would be one of the weird characters. I was just making a general statement that it's my usual rule about whether I'm willing to create a quest involving a character. I think it's mentioned that Degaine was kicked out of the temple, and of course he has his quest to steal the statue. I think something involving him would probably make sense.

[Rattlesnark]

On 4/27/2023 at 7:55 AM, ruddycray said:

 

Your understanding of how the lifetime earnings work is correct.

 

Do you have the TAP Interiors mod installed, by any chance? You need to make sure you have the version 1.53 patch installed if so.

Thanks! I had the then-very-fresh version of TAP Interiors 1.53 installed, loaded in, then went in-and-out of Chillfurrow Farm building just nearby the Garden - and the guards have spawned in.

Went through the questline all good and well; very excited to see what comes next for the characters. (Tythis though is a lot more stubborn with letting me start his quest - will have to see to him separately another time)

 

A thought/suggestion: I feel it would be swell to have an MCM setting to disable the auto-sex triggers in the Gardens/Benjen's brothel (if it's at all possible), as sometimes I get a little nervous for my fragile LE game when the scenes kick in; or simply want to do the quests with as little interruption

 

Thank you for creating and sharing TAP, quality quest mods like it are so much appreciated

Edited April 29, 2023 by Rattlesnark

[ruddycray]

10 hours ago, Rattlesnark said:

A thought/suggestion: I feel it would be swell to have an MCM setting to disable the auto-sex triggers in the Gardens/Benjen's brothel (if it's at all possible), as sometimes I get a little nervous for my fragile LE game when the scenes kick in; or simply want to do the quests with as little interruption

 

This will be in the next release.

[killer905]

I check this on Fasta onoy but i think for rest can be bugged too.

 

0.13 work good but in 0.14 not

Spoiler

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zKzXp8jzamj7K7FpKSIc40P3iXrbGH1C

 

[ruddycray]

4 hours ago, killer905 said:

I check this on Fasta onoy but i think for rest can be bugged too.

 

0.13 work good but in 0.14 not

  Hide contents

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zKzXp8jzamj7K7FpKSIc40P3iXrbGH1C

 

 

Can you explain what it is that you did here? I see that player controls are being disabled and nothing else is happening, but I don't know exactly what to look at for what might be triggering it.

 

Edit: Or is this first video 0.13 and second 0.14?

Edited April 30, 2023 by ruddycray

[killer905]

30 minutes ago, ruddycray said:

 

Can you explain what it is that you did here? I see that player controls are being disabled and nothing else is happening, but I don't know exactly what to look at for what might be triggering it.

 

Edit: Or is this first video 0.13 and second 0.14?

0.13 is a video where the character is clothed at the beginning.

0.14 is a video where the character is naked at the beginning.

 

In 0.14 after clicking on Fast it should have a "get ready" dialog. Dremora respawn but nothing like that happens. Only disable player control.

[ruddycray]

48 minutes ago, killer905 said:

0.13 is a video where the character is clothed at the beginning.

0.14 is a video where the character is naked at the beginning.

 

In 0.14 after clicking on Fast it should have a "get ready" dialog. Dremora respawn but nothing like that happens. Only disable player control.

 

I have been trying to reproduce this and cannot, even on LE. Is this the first time you go down to have a session with Fasta, or have you had another one before this? If you had another one, how did it end? Did you start the new one right away or wait until she left the room? Any extra details you can give me would be good.

Edited April 30, 2023 by ruddycray

[killer905]

1 hour ago, ruddycray said:

 

I have been trying to reproduce this and cannot, even on LE. Is this the first time you go down to have a session with Fasta, or have you had another one before this? If you had another one, how did it end? Did you start the new one right away or wait until she left the room? Any extra details you can give me would be good.

I admit I had absolutely no idea what was going on. I checked: On save before installing TAP, Save from TAP version 0.13 after updating to 0.14 and on new save. the effect was the same. Turns out a complete reinstall of TAP 0.14 fixed whatever it was. This whole Vortex irritates me more and more and I've been using it for a month because the disk with the previous Skyrim fell and I had to reinstall the mods ;( Conclusion? False alarm for which I apologize and I'm waiting for "new" content. <Sends hearts>

[LetsTestThis]

First of all I would like to thank you for the recent update aswell as plans to make more repeatable Temple of Dibella quests.

The Temple questline went a direction I didn't quite expect but still seemed very fitting. Quite interested in seeing what comes next for it. Making arriving late have actual consequences is also a design choice that isn't explored as often as it maybe should be so well done on that part aswell. The current lack of repeatable temple quests was a little disappointing but considering that it is planned I don't have much to add on that front.

 

Unfortunately I experienced a bug today on a new playthrough. During the Restoring Faith quest you have to talk to Kleppr. TAP does correctly detect if Kleppr is dead and provides an alternative dialogue to Frabbi. However finishing her dialogue does not appear to set the relevant quest stage. I managed to workaround this by manually advancing the quest stage to 300, at which point the rest of the quest proceeds as normal. While this is easily "fixable" by using the console I felt like it would be worth reporting.

 

In either case I would like to once again thank you for your work and look forward to seeing what comes next. Let me know if further information is needed.

[ruddycray]

1 hour ago, LetsTestThis said:

First of all I would like to thank you for the recent update aswell as plans to make more repeatable Temple of Dibella quests.

The Temple questline went a direction I didn't quite expect but still seemed very fitting. Quite interested in seeing what comes next for it. Making arriving late have actual consequences is also a design choice that isn't explored as often as it maybe should be so well done on that part aswell. The current lack of repeatable temple quests was a little disappointing but considering that it is planned I don't have much to add on that front.

 

Unfortunately I experienced a bug today on a new playthrough. During the Restoring Faith quest you have to talk to Kleppr. TAP does correctly detect if Kleppr is dead and provides an alternative dialogue to Frabbi. However finishing her dialogue does not appear to set the relevant quest stage. I managed to workaround this by manually advancing the quest stage to 300, at which point the rest of the quest proceeds as normal. While this is easily "fixable" by using the console I felt like it would be worth reporting.

 

In either case I would like to once again thank you for your work and look forward to seeing what comes next. Let me know if further information is needed.

 

Thanks for the report. I can reproduce the problem, so I'll get a fix in for it.

[rongeurdos]

Hi ruddycray. Just a quick note to thank you very much for your well integrated and as expected lore friendly work. You're on my toplist like JB. is for Fallout 4. I love when a mod improves my gameplay and my experience like yours does. Keep on goin', m.therfu.er, you're the best.

 

 

[erynyes]

I'm still running a previous version of TAP, in the MCM animation settings theres 3 options for rimjob, (RJ, rimming and rim job) but none for blow job. I'd really like the option to give oral service to my customers but i can't see any box for it, is it just a typo, or an oversight.  Maybe it has been fixed in the latest update, but it's been bothering me lately, anyway i'm about to update to latest version soon. Thx ruddy for all the work, it's a great mod!

Edited May 1, 2023 by erynyes

[ruddycray]

7 hours ago, erynyes said:

I'm still running a previous version of TAP, in the MCM animation settings theres 3 options for rimjob, (RJ, rimming and rim job) but none for blow job. I'd really like the option to give oral service to my customers but i can't see any box for it, is it just a typo, or an oversight.  Maybe it has been fixed in the latest update, but it's been bothering me lately, anyway i'm about to update to latest version soon. Thx ruddy for all the work, it's a great mod!

 

Those options are for animations you don't want.

 

I didn't provide an option to disable vaginal or blowjob animations in the default list, because I don't imagine much demand for it. The original release of TAP was hard-coded not to ever use anal or rim job scenes because one of my reasons for making TAP in the first place was getting annoyed by how sex mods rarely ever provide options to say you don't want that and will never want it. I actually don't even want clients to ask for it when I'm playing. I started providing the MCM animation options because I know some people do want those kinds of scenes, and there's no reason to hard-code the mod to force people to accept only my own personal tastes when it's just selecting what animations to use.

 

You can actually change what options are available in that list, but you'd have to edit the suppressable tags file. So you can add an option to disable vaginal or blowjob animations if you want to, but I don't think this is what you're trying to do.

 

What you're asking for, I think, is an option to select what kind of sex you will have with a client or possibly for clients to request what kind of sex they want with you. I do have that on my list, but I don't know when it will become a top priority for me.

Edited May 1, 2023 by ruddycray

[triponbush]

Potential problem on my side with The Sybil's Homecoming. I have The great town of Karthwasten installed. When we enter Fjotra's house I see the dialogue for her mother and her new husband (father died in save). They go through their dialogue and then just stand and do nothing. I presume either Fjotra has to intervene or there is a sex scene between the parents, but nothing happens.

Edited May 1, 2023 by triponbush