Decèdere Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 If I have one case fan in the back for exhaust would it make a significant difference whether it's mounted in the back or on the top facing up? I'm not really sure about this. I have three fans and I planned to put two on the front as intakes, and I have to mount them before the motherboard so I want to get it right.
MadMansGun Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 if you can't have both then i would say look at your cpu heatsink and think about how the air moves through it, you want the exhaust fan to remove the air coming out of the cpu in the most direct path possible so it does not have a chance to suck the hot air back in. but also do you actually have space for the fan on top? in my new computer the cpu power cords and heatsink took up that space so i went with back and side fans.
davisev5225 Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 Traditionally, you have airflow enter the case from the front, side, and bottom (if applicable, such as your PSU), and exit from the rear and top. If you only have one exhaust fan, use the rear. Source: I used to build custom computers for a living.
Decèdere Posted January 10, 2020 Author Posted January 10, 2020 Thanks, I'll have to see how my heatsink fits, but it's a pretty roomy case so I think it should be ok. I haven't actually received the case yet. I ordered it along with a pack of 3x120mm fans. I assumed 3 would be enough as it's not exactly a powerhouse of a PC, I'm just replacing my current case, which by the way has no fans. I don't remember why I ended up with this case but I've been experiencing (no surprise) overheating a lot since I got it. It's mainly been the GPU that overheats and causing the PC to shut off. At present I can play some games for hours on end, like Fallout 4, GTA5 and Dragon Age: Inquisition, and the temps won't go higher than 83-84. Other games, like most recently FarCry 5, gets the temp above the shut off point which is apparently 90c. I know I probably shouldn't stress it with high temps and no proper cooling, but hey I like to walk on the wild side.
MadMansGun Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Seelenlos said: current case, which by the way has no fans 12 minutes ago, Seelenlos said: and the temps won't go higher than 83-84 that's bad, extremely bad. like "why the hell did you even turn it on?" bad. how did you end up without any fans?
Decèdere Posted January 10, 2020 Author Posted January 10, 2020 I haven't done much gaming over the past year so it only just recently started hitting the critical point, so I started monitoring the temps and, yeah, no excuse.
Zor2k13 Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 However many places you have to put fans in a case just cram it full of them! of course the noise will be awful and if you order delta brand case fans you will go deaf in less than an hour but still it would be better than trying to decide which slot to use. You could also just use one of those all in one water cooler heat sinks that have a radiator the exact size of a single 120mm fan so you just stick that radiator and a fan for it to the back fan slot and forgetaboutit. I have a raven 2 case and one of those corsair all in one water coolers for a single fan I mounted it on the top but on my case the design is to move air from bottom to top there is no back slot except for the power supply fan. The whole thing has been working just fine for years now but the three giant fans that came with it are loud and obnoxious even with a fan controller.
Decèdere Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 Well I got the case and installed everything and I'm not noticing a significant change in my GPU temps. It still idles in 50's and gets to the upper 80's in some games. I didn't monitor for more than like 20 minutes so maybe it gets even hotter than that. My CPU on the other hand has greatly improved and idles in the 20's now whereas it tended to be in the 40's before. I'm going to order two more fans to fill it out and see if that improves it. I appreciate the input!
RitualClarity Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Traditionally one is on the back of every case. Not required but generally it is the first fan if there is only one fan. The next goes to the front if that is possible for design. (most case this is the "case" pun intended) Then after filling up the back then the front then you can put one on the top. Keep in mind how you are setting the fans up. so they don't conflict. For example front facing/ bottom case fans generally face inward for air and the back and top face outward for air. Traditionally the cpu heat sink if fan and not closed loop etc faces towards the back. Keep in mind the power supply has a fan as well. Most put it so that it sucks the air out of the case and not so it sucks in air from the bottom (facing top not bottom) Generally it is better to have positive pressure as opposed to negative pressure for heat control. You can have a much better time keeping the components clean inside the case if this is .. well the case (another pun intended :P) Negative pressure will pull in air from where ever it can and often that means less chance of being pulled through an fan filter etc. Positive pushes out loose dust and such more effectively. You want an imaginary line of flow of air. If your case has a lot of top fan options then perhaps fouse first on the bottom front and then the back and top of the case so that there is a line that blows air through the hard drives (traditionally) and under the GPU then the processor (which further boost it back or up ) and then out the case. Finally one added item. The case materials .. openings (filtered or not) do matter. having lots of plastic helps retain heat. Aluminum cases (steal to a degree) helps dissipate the heat as well. Plastic side panels are less desirable than glass (glass being more likely to dissipate what heat it has quicker then plastic that retains it longer) Glass can get much much more hotter .. yes.. and then it will retain the heat like an oven.. however, the heats that is being created in most cases aren't anywhere near the needed temps and sustained for that to be a problem. Don't take my word for it.. if you have some friends with aluminum case and/or glass panels check out the temp by touching them. Then check out a fully spec gaming computer with plastic panels that is been working for some time. They are generally a bit more warm. Glass many times feels cooler to the touch in room temperature. along with aluminum. P.S.. I so regret upgrading to a newer case with bells and such from my old aluminum case.
gregathit Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 If you just have the rear, make sure your case is not right up against the wall. It is best if the hot air is expelled away from the machine and not just up against a wall. Think about how air circulation works best for your room and you'll come up with something.
Decèdere Posted January 13, 2020 Author Posted January 13, 2020 Well this case has a rear, top, and bottom vent for exhaust, but the top is covered by the fan on my giant coolermaster CPU heat sink, and the bottom is where the PSU mounts with its fan blowing out the bottom vent. The rear fan is also right next to the CPU heat sink. I think the heat from the CPU is going through the heat sink and immediately being sucked out of the case, which would explain why it's so much cooler now. The fan on the GPU is blowing straight down at nothing, possibly trapping the hot air down there. Perhaps if I had more intake fans it would cycle that air out faster. All I know is right now the GPU gets just as hot as it did with no case fans. Possibly even hotter. While playing MGS5 the temp got up to 90c before I stopped playing for fear of overheating. I'm ordering more fans on wednesday along with a fan connector/splitter so I can plug them all into the same cord.
davisev5225 Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Your GPU fans shouldn't be blowing "down", they should be blowing out the back of the case (if blower motor design) or sucking air up into the heatsink (if traditional twin or triple fan design). If you're blowing "down", then your fans are sucking hot air from above the GPU into the heatsink instead of sucking cooler air from below the GPU. What video card are you running? Some video cards naturally run hot. 80C is concerning, but not quite at the danger range of 90-100C.
davisev5225 Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/12/2020 at 12:15 PM, RitualClarity said: Keep in mind the power supply has a fan as well. Most put it so that it sucks the air out of the case and not so it sucks in air from the bottom (facing top not bottom) Not true. Most modern "performance" cases are specifically designed with an intake fan filter at the bottom of the case for the PSU. The idea is for the PSU to have its own dedicated cooling "loop", where it sucks cold air in from below the case and exhausts it out the back of the case, without affecting the airflow in the rest of the case.
RitualClarity Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, davisev5225 said: Not true. Most modern "performance" cases are specifically designed with an intake fan filter at the bottom of the case for the PSU. The idea is for the PSU to have its own dedicated cooling "loop", where it sucks cold air in from below the case and exhausts it out the back of the case, without affecting the airflow in the rest of the case. Yes, and no. ... Most power supplies don't need the extra "fresh" air. If there is cooling issues in the case, you can use the power supply to help with the movement of air. Those that put it to pull in fresh air and exhaust them have a good case that has excellent air flow. Those that don't... use that trick to help with air movement. The comment "most put " is in reference to those that are using cases and / or setups that are having problems with cooling their components and need extra air flow. (possibly the issue with the OP's setup if it continues after he/she has made the needed changes to fan, orientations and computer configurations. ) Sorry if I wasn't completely clear on that. I used the trick with a Q6600 and a GTX8800 with 6 hard drives and ZERO case fans.. nothing but the power supply and graphics card was pulling air out of the case. (of course I had a good heat sink on the processor) (note many pre-built computers are setup in such a fashion ) My current has only 2 .. 140s in the front and a single 120 in the back for a 4790 K air cooled with a 1080Ti, and 7 hard drives. 3 of which are mechanical. No temp issues when ambient temps (in my room) are close to 90 degrees. (f) (this setup didn't need the extra fans including the power supply so it is setup up to pull air from outside the case.) In reality I only need two fans. (in its current configuration at hotest room temp) I do have a benefit of keeping the case very cool.. the graphics card fans won't start spinning until much higher temps. ... note.. they almost never run unless I am playing a video game for more than 15 minutes. When was the last time you seen a power supply overheat? 1 hour ago, davisev5225 said: What video card are you running? Some video cards naturally run hot. 80C is concerning, but not quite at the danger range of 90-100C. ^ Double check the heat limits and norms of your hardware. you might find that your temps are perfectly normal.
Decèdere Posted January 14, 2020 Author Posted January 14, 2020 15 hours ago, davisev5225 said: What video card are you running? Some video cards naturally run hot. 80C is concerning, but not quite at the danger range of 90-100C. It's a Radeon RX 560. I've read wildly conflicting opinions on what the normal and critical temps should be for this card. Some say you should worry if your temps are over 80c, some say it could run at that temp all the time and not be damaged. I read somewhere that when it reaches 90c it will cause the graphics driver to crash, then I read elsewhere that it's 120c. It's definitely not 90 as it got to 91c just playing Skyrim yesterday. The whole reason I thought it was overheating is because I got FarCry 5 and it crashed a couple times. Actually the monitor went blank with a pink background and the computer shut off. I felt the case after it happened and it was burning up. But the temps in that game only got as high as 86c. Other games run hotter without freezing. So I don't even know what to believe.
davisev5225 Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Seelenlos said: It's a Radeon RX 560. I've read wildly conflicting opinions on what the normal and critical temps should be for this card. Some say you should worry if your temps are over 80c, some say it could run at that temp all the time and not be damaged. I read somewhere that when it reaches 90c it will cause the graphics driver to crash, then I read elsewhere that it's 120c. It's definitely not 90 as it got to 91c just playing Skyrim yesterday. RX cards, in general, should be idling around 25-30C no higher than 45C and shouldn't peak above 75C-ish under full load. You definitely have a heat management issue. What does it do if you run the system with the side panel removed?
RitualClarity Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 8 hours ago, davisev5225 said: RX cards, in general, should be idling around 25-30C no higher than 45C and shouldn't peak above 75C-ish under full load. You definitely have a heat management issue. What does it do if you run the system with the side panel removed? Also no the subject... where is the computer case. Make sure you have it in a position where air can move around. If you are using the power supply where it pulls air into itself. Make sure there isn't carpet or something potentially blocking the air flow as well.
Decèdere Posted January 15, 2020 Author Posted January 15, 2020 So I played Skyrim for about an hour last night with the side panel off and the hottest it got was 65c. Normally it's almost instantly at 80+. I take it this means it is in fact a problem with airflow in the case? 10 hours ago, RitualClarity said: Also no the subject... where is the computer case. Make sure you have it in a position where air can move around. If you are using the power supply where it pulls air into itself. Make sure there isn't carpet or something potentially blocking the air flow as well. It is sitting on carpet actually, but it's on feet so there is a small amount of purchase underneath for the power supply. I suppose I could find a flat surface to set it on though to see if it makes a difference. I'm still ordering more fans today and they should be here tomorrow and hopefully they will help.
RitualClarity Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Seelenlos said: So I played Skyrim for about an hour last night with the side panel off and the hottest it got was 65c. Normally it's almost instantly at 80+. I take it this means it is in fact a problem with airflow in the case? It is sitting on carpet actually, but it's on feet so there is a small amount of purchase underneath for the power supply. I suppose I could find a flat surface to set it on though to see if it makes a difference. I'm still ordering more fans today and they should be here tomorrow and hopefully they will help. 8 hours ago, Alkpaz said: That would be a "yes". If you are not vaping or smoking, you should be fine with the side panel off, I would recommend elevating the case, so that bugs don't crawl in there. I've never been hip to leaving PCs on the floor, even if it has wheels. Also check into possibly getting better or more fans .. populate the front of the case with whatever you can. I state this as this is where your hard drives and such are usually located at. Chances are if the case is this hot from the other components the hard drive is as well (mechanical that is.. and also if you use it) Also, it can help blow air into the case (fresh) for the graphics card supply which might help that a bit more. finally I know there is carpet but also make sure that your computer is open to air meaning not in a box, case, cabinet or covered or otherwise restricted. (for air. ) Historically RL friends that had this issue usually was caused by not having proper fans or quality fans or even setup but also .. often forgotten .. put in a piece of furniture or some how other blocks causing the air around the case to be much hotter. Seriously if you are still having problems with the case... I'd suggest upgrading it to a more gaming / component freindly case. Doesn't have to be expensive. Finally .. I don't recall you mentioning the case you are using.
Decèdere Posted January 16, 2020 Author Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, RitualClarity said: Finally .. I don't recall you mentioning the case you are using. The one I just bought is a Thermaltake Versa H17. Judging by the reviews it seems like a pretty good case for the price. I got it on sale for $30. It's definitely a huge improvement over my last case.
MadMansGun Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 6 hours ago, Seelenlos said: Thermaltake Versa H17 https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Gaming-Computer-Pre-Installed-CA-1J1-00S1NN-A0/dp/B07THWKT6V that thing looks like a bloody oven: aluminum plate covering the front air intake. another plate inside blocking the GPU's heatsink. ssd mounts are on backside where they won't get any airflow what so ever. no side venting or even space to give breathing room.
RitualClarity Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Seelenlos said: The one I just bought is a Thermaltake Versa H17. Judging by the reviews it seems like a pretty good case for the price. I got it on sale for $30. It's definitely a huge improvement over my last case. 3 hours ago, MadMansGun said: https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Gaming-Computer-Pre-Installed-CA-1J1-00S1NN-A0/dp/B07THWKT6V that thing looks like a bloody oven: aluminum plate covering the front air intake. another plate inside blocking the GPU's heatsink. ssd mounts are on backside where they won't get any airflow what so ever. no side venting or even space to give breathing room. Yes, Good for some setups but it isn't working well for yours. If you spent around 60 or so dollars (up to 90) you would have been able to get a case that had 2 fans in the front and possibly two on top, rear (perhaps both.) If you ever decide to upgrade the case again, check the reviews on cooling (specifically what is used in the case if possible) or go to your local Microcenter and ask one of those associates. They might not be the most skilled with the hardware but... they know enough to direct you to a case that has better air flow for the components you will want to use (or currently use) I don't think we can do much more for air flow in the case (once you filled the fan slots it has properly) It looks like you can't use my trick of turning the power supply so that it pulls air from the case since it appears to be blocked for a separate air zone. Fill fan slots .. front to back/top and leave the case door off to allow the components to directly access air (not really the best approach but in your case it might be necessary) until you are ready to upgrade components, computer, parts, case etc. If you can run the computer at or below its advised temps you are good. (will have to dust it out more often likely but.. not a problem) If /when you do decide to do some upgrades. Perhaps post back here for some ideas Until then good luck and good catch you had some heat issues. keep it under control and you should be able to operate your current setup for years.
MadMansGun Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, RitualClarity said: It looks like you can't use my trick of turning the power supply so that it pulls air from the case at least not without using a rotary tool first.
RitualClarity Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, MadMansGun said: at least not without using a rotary tool first. If dremel's were on the table.. then you could create almost all the fans you wanted. Namely create a nice side fan hole then mount a fan and https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Desktop-Computer-Fan-Grills/zgbs/pc/11036301 https://www.homedepot.com/b/Dremel/N-5yc1vZgr and a few examples Of course the quality of the videos might not be the best.. there are many ways and many videos on the subject.
Decèdere Posted January 17, 2020 Author Posted January 17, 2020 I think I found the culprit for high GPU temp while idling. It's the stupid Radeon Zero RPM setting. It turns the GPU fan off while under light load to reduce noise. When I disable that setting it's stays right around 38c while watching a TV show and web browsing. I also installed additional fans, which gave another marked improvement to CPU temp, idling under 20c now. I haven't yet tested the temps while gaming, but I think I'm in the clear now. When I take the side panel off I can feel the air coming out of it. I didn't mention this before but I had the fans plugged into an old HDD cooler since I didn't have any other extra 4-pin connectors. I'm not sure how reliable that thing was but it's literally 20 years old. Now I'm using 4-pin to molex connectors instead. 13 hours ago, RitualClarity said: If you ever decide to upgrade the case again, check the reviews on cooling (specifically what is used in the case if possible) That's exactly what I did though. All of the reviews on this case pretty much praised it for having such great airflow and being one of the best entry-level cases money can buy.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.