UNPB Vanilla Armor Broken Down with BBP and Working Weight Slider

[themainwolfman]

i dont know what i am doing wrong but when i installed UNPB-BBP v2-4 HD (yes to everything install on NMM) i still get clipping when i am running but not when i am doing anything else and my characters breast look deflated the right breast looks like it is slightly sagging lower than the left one but when i go back to the version i was using (UNPB-BBP v2-2x Pack Fixed) before v2-4 it works like normal there is no clipping when im running the only problem i have is on some of the armor the nipple sticks out alittle (Dragon bone, Imperial Heavy) and on the ebony armor the bottom of the right breast clips alittle glass armor and all the elven and fur variations are perfect

 

i have the latest FNIS and im not using any animation changing mods except for an idle replacer and the animations that came with UNPB-BBP v2-4 HD i am also using the same skeleton as UNPB-BBP v2-4 HD

 

i love the conversion and i really want to use them any help would be greatly appreciated

[Silvist]

@Cornbreadtm & shadowgearX - Thank for the approval ;p  But seriously I have to compare the differences.  Last night I was comparing the difference between the glass one done by chronotrigger77, and asianboy's mak version.  The was no actually difference in regards to how it looked.  So perhaps some of the armors look diff, where others are the same.  The biggest thing I'm trying to do first is get all the armors into a working state.

 

After I have them all "in game" shaped for the UNPB, I can then go in and tweak it further.  Meaning do my best to remove clipping.  The only thing I'm not very good at, just due to how much experience I have doing it...is weight painting.  I realize how it works, and how it looks.  Just for doing a massive quantity of armors, its very time consuming to go into every little piece, and see how much "gravity/weight" is being apply at each part of the armor.  When I say part, I mean technically "vertices".  Most armors have anywhere from 1,000-3,000...so that's alot of tweaking.

 

Some of these modders out there, who have the perfect bounce to there armors...are just that experienced lol.  They can take that process in do it in a matter of seconds.  A good example would be my teacher, the founder of ADEC, Acdale.  He would take an armor I was working on, and reshape it better than I had it and send it back to me...faster than I could check his reply lol.

 

That's why I was trying to stream line it, from other works such as Asianboy's version.  I'm like all of you here.  Meaning; I want no flaws either.  Though sometimes its very hard to avoid such things.

 

@themainwolfman - Hmm odd, first i've heard of deforming breast while the armor is equipped.  Is the deforming your character, or npcs..or dead npcs?

 

Also make sure you are using the skeleton from the v 2_4, that comes with it.  I used to use NMM, but it started really screwing up some of the file placements.

 

Here's how my dragonbone armor looks in game on my current character:

 

Action shot:

 

 

 

 

Still shots:

 

 

 

 

 

[themainwolfman]

@silvist awesome screenshots is awesome

 

i noticed the deforming on my character when i switched to 2-4 and tried your armor and saw that i had clipping while running took off the armor then i noticed the breasts kinda looked different

 

ill try installing 2-4 manually

 

here is what i got with my latest try:

 

http://flickr.com/gp/93024764@N05/8630H2

dragonbone

 

http://flickr.com/gp/93024764@N05/8089B0

dragonbone

 

http://flickr.com/gp/93024764@N05/u5B57X

and with this one I do not know if you notice it, but the breasts look a little off I am not sure if its just my imagination, though.

[Silvist]

@themainwolfman - Hmm, ya something is conflicting. I would uninstall unpb, and install the body all manually.

This is why I was trying to get a video up, to show not only the bbp, but the clipping I'm not seeing that people seem to be having.

Before each of these armors have been released I made sure to test them. The only time I got clipping was with the new show race menu by expired...when I was messing with breast and butt size.

Some animations can also cause clipping depending on what skeleton was used as the base. I will make sure to look more into this when I have time again. These are also still in the beta phase because they have no weight slider.

Keep me posted if you are still having the issue.

[joetheplumber]

Thank you for porting these to UNPB. As far as BBP clipping problems(which I myself am also having), the only suggestion I would make is to remove the BBP animations from the armors, if that is possible. This is just my opinion though. The clipping issues are really the only thing keeping me from using them.

[ShadowGearX]

@Silvist loving those shots! How is Dragon Born? any issues you have encountered? Where is that hair from?!

[Silvist]

@joetheplumber - You are welcome. You can use these armors without BBP.  Just do not use the BBP skeleton.  If you do that all the armors that have BBP, will obviously not have it, and function normally.

 

As for the armors "uses" bbp animation, that is not how it works.  All that happens to apply bbp, is applying weighting based on the skeleton.  So if the skeleton being used while creating the armor is BBP, the armor will copy the properties of the skeleton, there by making it bbp.  If the base skeleton is non bbp, it wont have bbp.  That's the simplest way I can explain it ;p

 

@Shadowgear - Thank you, I wish I had better ones.  My character looks alot better than that in game.  Those shots are compressed quality.  My true quality shots are like x10 better.  I need a lot better of an image host, that doesn't squish my quality.

 

The hair is from Radioragae's oblivion hair which is here:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18110

 

There's quite alot of hairs there.  Be careful not to install to many hair files, this can cause showrace or character creation to screw up and crash.  This guy has an insane amount of hairs, I had to only take 3 of his esms, to prevent  crashes.

 

Just info to everyone having clipping issues, I plan to do my best to resolve them.  Keep in mind this is still in the early stages, so I will fine tune them later on to prevent such.  I still need to finish the weight slider for all of them as well.  Then make them equip able by piece.

 

Also notice, if this was completed it would not be in the random forums.  I would have had the moderators move the thread to the "download" section.  

 

If anyone wishes to help me with this process, by all means please pm me.  I'm not trying to take credit for this work, it isn't really that hard..and I didn't make the armors to begin with.  It is time consuming, and quite a bit of a process.  I posted this all here only because I was trying to share with you guys armors that I made personally for myself for UNPB.  There's plenty of other better mods than myself out there, that could easily top me on this.  I just was one of the first who decided to take initiative to get this done.

 

Edit:

 

One thing I almost completely forgot to tell you guys one reason for clipping.  The body used in the armor, IS version 2_4 HD!!  So even if you aren't using it, its in the mesh lol.  I always forget than when equipping armor, you are also swapping bodies with whatever is inside the armor.  Didn't work this way in previous TES games.  So yah..if you aren't using version 2_4, and use my armor...that's a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry large possibility why you are experiencing issues.

 

Easiest way to fix this is just open up the armor in nifskope, copy the body you use in..and remove the one there and save.  Make sure to name the body the same name as the body you are replacing inside of nifskope.  

 

If that's to much work, I would say that unless you use version 2_4, you may experience problems.

[Silvist]

Just finished converting this to max slider, and tested for clipping:

 

Thief armor:

 

 

 

[themainwolfman]

@silvist

 

thanks for the help

 

i will be experimenting on what is causing my problem when i find a solution to it i will post it here

 

(instead of creating a brand new post ill just do it here)

 

results:

 

i tried manually installing everything still the same clipping

 

even tried xp32's skeleton, chsbhc skeleton and one i got from somewhere don't remember where still the same clipping while running and walking

 

its like the armor has less bounce than the breasts (the armor definitely bounces) all my other UNPB armor's work fine though

[Silvist]

@themainwolfman - Hmm, that's interesting that you say the armor bounces less than the body.  Mainly because the body bounce properties have been copied and applied to the armor.  That's normally the way most modders add bbp.  Now reason I asked what I did earlier is because inside ALL of my armor mods on here is unpb seamless version 2.4 nd straight from Calyps's mod page.  Who is the creator of unpb.

 

The skeleton I use is the one that came with that version, no other.  I'm not exactly sure if the skeleton that comes with version 2.4 is the chsbhc or not.  I just know I switched over from another body type prior, and followed Calyps's instructions.  

 

Im sorry to hear that its clipping for ya, hopefully I can figure out what is causing it on your end.  Only question I have for ya is are all the armors from this page clipping or just some?

[themainwolfman]

@silvist

 

the ones that i know that clip are the

 

Imperial Heavy

Dragonbone

Ebony

 

(these were done with a manual install of 2.4 with the animations that came with it)

TEST RESULTS:

Blades - bad clipping while running and walking

Daedric - minor

Dwarven - minor

Ebony - minor

elven (normal, gilded and light) - minor

Falmer - minor

Fur - varies between types from minor to almost no clipping

Glass - almost no clipping

Iron - minor

Imperial Heavy and Dragonbone are on the same level as blades

 

also does any one have a comparison pic of UNPB 2.4 compared to UNPB 2.2 just curious to see if the problem is with me i went to the nexus and did not find any

Edited February 11, 2013 by themainwolfman

[joetheplumber]

The UNPB 2.4 HD release uses the XPMS skeleton according to the download link. That's the one I'm using and I still have clipping issues on everything but the Glass whether I'm standing still or moving. I'm using xp32's custom animation pack for everything but PCEA and the differences in the skeleton are only two bones from what FNIS reports. I wish I knew what the problem was. I'd really like to use your conversion. Hopefully that gives you a bit more information though as far as why I'm experiencing incompatibility.

 

[Silvist]

@Joetheplumber - Ya thats odd, because other people including myself are not having clipping issues with all the armors I've modded. Sounds to me like I have to make a video to show people the clipping I'm not experiencing on my end. This doesn't mean that i don't plan to try and fix the clipping. I will look at the armors people are reporting to see about giving the clipping spots more breathing room. I just try to be careful with the armor parts, because I want them to be as skin tight and realistic as possible.

Also with skeletons there is normally two skeletons. One is normally in the character/assets folder while the other is located somewhere in the actor folder, I forget exactly where. I'll update the location of the other once I get home from work....yes in still at work lol.

 

Edit:

 

Okay finally home.  Here's exactly all the skels in the 2.4 version pack:

 

meshes/actor/character/_1stperson/skeleton.nif

meshes/actor/character/characters female/defaultfemale.hkx (bbp required)

meshes/actor/character/characters female/defaultmale.hkx (bbp required, fix for males)

meshes/actor/character/characters female/character assets female/skeleton_female.nif, skeleton_female.hkx,skeletonbeast_female.nif (bbp required)

 

If you are missing any of those files, or they aren't the originals made for UNPB, then you will experience issues regardless.  This is why for stuff like this, you should always manually install.  Sometimes modders make mistakes, and put files in the wrong places.  That can cause issues since NMM isn't smart enough to detect this.

 

I have no idea how 2.2 version works with all of this, because I have not used it, nor do I plan to.  So if you use 2.2, and have all these files FROM 2.2, then it will have a better chance of working.  If ANY of those files are not what was provided with the current versions, you will indeed experience problems.

 

Why does this cause problems?

 

The hkx are behavior files for animations, which are based on the skeletons used to make them.  Those same exact skeletons are used to make bodies, and armors off of.  Most 3d programs pull this information automatically when a skeleton is already in the program.  So if you are using ANYTHING different than what was used to make these, you will experience problems.  The only possible way you won't have conflicts is that the changes between versions are only minor changes, like where a vertex is located.  Outside of that, it will cause issues...especially in skyrim.

 

TES skyrim specifically is one of those systems that either everything is in order, or the game will crash.  In prior TES games this was not the case.  So just so you guys know, when you equip an armor, you are also "equipping" a body.  So even if you aren't using 2.4, you will be if you equip my armor.  The body you are using is swapped with the body inside of the nif file, in the armor.  

 

Having a weight slider is even more complex lol.  Because then you have two armors, _0 and _1.  If you have a weight that's say 50%, the game takes both of those files, and finds a happy medium.  That's built into the program, and again if things aren't perfect...it'll crash or have worse issues.  

 

I use max weight on my naked character, so if you guys aren't using max weight, that could perhaps be yet another reason the game is freaking out.  I'm not saying to make your character max weight, just simply saying that could also be an issue.  The more issues I have getting these max weights finished, the longer it'll be before I can make a compatible zero weight.

 

Just some background on my experience with BBP.  I've been working with BBP since Cherryhotling brought it to skyrim.  I was one of the first people to post a video of using bbp applied to custom armor on these very forums.  So I do have experience messing with BBP.  Just there is so many other things that can interfere with this, its uncanny.  Back before it was simply just UNP, CBBE, and CHSBHC (a variation of cbbe).  Now there is even skeletons with modified breast and butt nodes to increase the size a completely different way outside of the weight slider.  There's even a custom show race menu that allows you to do this as well.

 

With all these changes I'm doing my best to keep updated, and try and figure out how to fix issues.  Ultimately the responsibility to fix these issues lies with you my friends.  I will still though do my best to help you.

 

Again if anyone has any experience with modding, and is interested in helping me...feel free to pm me ;p

[soulbreaka]

I think I might as missed on how to fix this but, the underwear colour isn't supposed to be purple correct? But black? Cause I'm getting purple underwear. Anyone know how to fix?

[Cyndi]

I think I might as missed on how to fix this but, the underwear colour isn't supposed to be purple correct? But black? Cause I'm getting purple underwear. Anyone know how to fix?

 

See the very first post:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/19772   <- go there, and grab that mod first.  the only thing you really need is the MAK folder in textures,

Back up your other textures ahead of time just in case you overwrite a bunch of other stuff though accidentally though (especially if you are useing nmm,

[ShadowGearX]

I think I might as missed on how to fix this but, the underwear colour isn't supposed to be purple correct? But black? Cause I'm getting purple underwear. Anyone know how to fix?

First page: 

 

Prior to installing any of this, make sure to install this file first. I would also HIGHLY advise backing up your textures, in case you use custom ones:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/19772

 

All you really need from it though is the textures, specifically the MAK folder ones.

 

Which are located in:

 

data/textures/armor/MAK

 

Edit: Well shoot, that wasnt there a second ago lol

[Cyndi]

Undies spots ->

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/9290/gstring.jpg

 

Probably not a huge thing,  I imagine most people will hide or take out the undies to use different underwear mods with it (or w/e) anyway.

 

 

 

Funny spot from when dragonbone armor was converted to unp ->

http://imageshack.us/a/img685/8223/aspot.jpg

 

 

 

I seem to get some of the same clipping that others are,  and can only find the spots in 3ds if I drop it into "hidden line with edged faces"

or "realistic with edged faces".  Zooming in and out slowly on the cuirass kinda makes the spots pop out to see.

Just looks like the parts are sooooooo close together that the wireframe from the body peeks through a bit. ->

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img24/9096/realisticwedges.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img254/7640/hiddenline.jpg

[Silvist]

@Cyndi - The thing is it doesnt look like that in my 3d max.  When I get home I'll post a screen shot so ya can see. Some issues, like the first might be from the fact I weld all vertices, prior to manipulating them.

 

I'm also depending on the outcome of the mesh on export I may apply smoothing...depending if any of the certs are corrupted.

 

I could re import the armor into 3ds to see how it looks as well. Im using 2012 max btw.  The only reason I weld all verts is its highly recommended by many guides and mentors I've had for 3ds max.

 

 

If you notice here, I have no poke through:

 

 

 

 

Side view:

 

 

 

 

Now to show you exactly what I see when I look at how the meshes overlap.  Red circles are showing the nipples, which people say are clipping.  If you notice from the bottom, they are close to the front.

 

 

 

 

Though, if you look at it from the side, look how much space is there before it would "clip" though the armor.  I tried to give it enough breathing room so with bbp bounce, it wouldn't poke through.  I also kept it as close as possible, because I wanted the armor to be flush and conformed.  Otherwise I could just pull it out further.  I'm careful of doing that, because to much will cause the mesh to deform, and loose its smooth surface.  They may be a way to fix the smoothness, though nothing I've found that works without causing a crash on export ;p

 

 

 

[Kargrin]

Im using an old version of UNPB, and got just some little nipple clipping when they bounce (lol) but not a big deal, keep the good work.

[Cyndi]

@Cyndi - The thing is it doesnt look like that in my 3d max.  When I get home I'll post a screen shot so ya can see. Some issues, like the first might be from the fact I weld all vertices, prior to manipulating them.

 

I'm also depending on the outcome of the mesh on export I may apply smoothing...depending if any of the certs are corrupted.

 

I could re import the armor into 3ds to see how it looks as well. Im using 2012 max btw.  The only reason I weld all verts is its highly recommended by many guides and mentors I've had for 3ds max.

 

 

If you notice here, I have no poke through:     ***/SNIP

 

I know what you mean, I don't even see that close spot without hitting the edged faces button. (click where it says realistic, then clicky edged faces)

and I wouldn't say its poke through exactly, it's just a spot where the two meshes are close together. I've found I've had to use that trick with any bbp-x clothing (more bounce). Not as often with bbp armor stuff...  I tend to use all three bodies depending on the gear (unpb, unpb bbp, unpb bbp-x).

Im using the same max version (2012 x64 student version), and imported your skeleton.

{import skeleton first, then mesh usually personally,  but still see that if I import the skeleton with the mesh at the same time}

 

Also the 3ds export crash....   I  HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTEE that.  Always does it when I forget to save after hours of messing with something, and it really messes stuff up trying to emergency save. 

 

But I digress, it will likely only clip for some people, with certain animations. 

 

Edit:  What I really want to know is......   are you going to try to port over the Mak boots?  I don't think anyone has actually done that yet.... and for some reason.....  I can't weight a pair of boots to save my life.

[6XXENG]

Wonder if you can make esp files instead of vanilla replacement.

[Silvist]

@6xxeng - As in stand alone? If so, yes that's very easy to do.  Most likely I won't be able to get to that until I'm done with all the armors.

 

@Cyndi - Hmm, i never messed with Edges, but I can surely check it out.  I can try to convert maks boots, I've done so before when converting stuff from oblivion to skyrim:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/21009

 

It was alot harder to do ADEC, because of the huge ankles.  I agree completely with you, that without full matching parts it seems not as good.  I'd like a full package myself, that's why I planned to do all I could for this.  

 

Yes, I hate the crash to, but just always remember to save prior to exporting.  Most of my crashes are from exporting.  Typically its because of the far outdated nif script.  

 

As for weighing it, all I did was copy the weighting off of the feet.  Depending on how far up the boot goes, you may need some bones from the main body too.  Best way to figure this out, and how I learned was by looking at existing boots.  Its always good to learn from things that already work without problems ;p

 

I'll see what I can done these next two days, but I haven't been feeling that good the last week.  I had to go to the stupid hospital last night, and that ate up my evening.  Hopefully with meds, I'll feel better as the week progresses.

 

Edit:

 

@Cyndi - Wow, your suggestion is very helpful, I see exactly what you mean!  Hopefully this will fix the issues.  Thanks alot for the helpful info.  

 

Check out this file, and let me know if you see the same thing.  If anyone else wants to test it, go for it:

 

 

unpbdragonbone.zip

 

 

If this fixes the clipping issue with this armor, then I know what to do for all the other armors.  Which will seriously take me a matter of seconds.  So please let me know asap ;p

 

I tested this myself in game, and looks great:

 

 

 

 

[ShadowGearX]

I tested it and the nipples arent clipping through when standing like they were before for me, still a slight pop through on the left breast for me when moving but that might be due to my animations. Most certainly a step in the right direction.

[Silvist]

@ShadowGearX - Hmm, what part does the left breast pop through?  Like side?

 

I also tested this on the daedric as well, to see if it helped at all.  Looks like for sure this is fixing the issues!  Check out this:

 

 

daedric.zip

 

 

I still have to modify it a bit, to get the glow that's missing.  But for me this has no clipping.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

Just did nightingale as well, it fixed some of the clipping but not all.  

 

@Cyndi - If you zoom out with the faces enabled, the facing clipping changes.  Any ideas why?  It also makes it hard to edit with it zoomed out alot lol.

[6XXENG]

Thanks, Silvst.

 

And here's another request.

 

Can you re-upload the alternative panties file to mediafire once again? (Since the link given on the first post is no more valid)