Real Handcuffs

[MrCruelJohn]

Right now, playing around with them in a safe settlement. Having a means of them forced on you would be better if included in another mod. 

 

Egoballistic mentioned one time with Violate. 

 

Much like family planning uses doctors to address pregnancy. You could have a mod using Arturo to cut them off.

 

What ways or scenarios are you guys roleplaying using the handcuffs now absent such mods.

[Viri1]

We actually already have a "permanent" scenario: Hinged Cuffs+Max Tight+Keyholes away. A way to escape is yet to be implemented.

 

 

[tefm]

I can't unlock the handcuffs. I pick up the key in hand and nothing happens. I tried everything I could think of. Is there so secret way to do it or is the mod broken in my game. I have F4SE and everything. The only part that doesn't work is unlocking them with the key. Timer cuffs work as intended.

[rennex]

I love this mod! Its simple enough that I can bind my slave girls without messing up their AI like Devious Devices does thank you. Did you ever consider adding some sort of bondage or tape gags to the game?

[Viri1]

15 hours ago, tefm said:

I can't unlock the handcuffs. I pick up the key in hand and nothing happens. I tried everything I could think of. Is there so secret way to do it or is the mod broken in my game. I have F4SE and everything. The only part that doesn't work is unlocking them with the key. Timer cuffs work as intended.

You try to open the handcuffs by trying to open the Pip-Boy. That opens options. Mind you, if you locked them "very tight", it is very difficult to escape, but you can try endlessly. Hinged Cuffs, if locked very tight and with keyhole facing away from the hands are however actually inescapable.

[MrCruelJohn]

4 hours ago, Viri1 said:

You try to open the handcuffs by trying to open the Pip-Boy. That opens options. Mind you, if you locked them "very tight", it is very difficult to escape, but you can try endlessly. Hinged Cuffs, if locked very tight and with keyhole facing away from the hands are however actually inescapable.

I prefer the timed locks. Awesome work!

[Kharos]

On 3/27/2019 at 7:17 PM, Viri1 said:

We actually already have a "permanent" scenario: Hinged Cuffs+Max Tight+Keyholes away. A way to escape is yet to be implemented.

 

 

I am working on a option to escape, but it will still take some time.

[Kharos]

On 3/28/2019 at 2:03 AM, tefm said:

I can't unlock the handcuffs. I pick up the key in hand and nothing happens. I tried everything I could think of. Is there so secret way to do it or is the mod broken in my game. I have F4SE and everything. The only part that doesn't work is unlocking them with the key. Timer cuffs work as intended.

Yeah, as Viri1 said, you should get a menu with options when you press the key that is used to open the pipboy menu or the quick inventory key. From there, choose the option to investigate the lock.

 

There was a case in the past where the keybinding did not work for players using the gamepad. If you are in a similar situation, please tell me (and include more details).

[Guest]

I tested this mod a little bit on player, but not yet on followers.

It would be nice when followers are cuffed, that they do not enter combat anymore instead flee !

Is that realized ? Maybe with an option in MCM ?

 

If not I assume that it would not be too difficult, i think the following modification can do:

Add an enchanting to the base form of the cuff. The enchanting should have an magic effect with a script attached.

When the Event onstart... fired store the actor value confidence in a local variable, than set confidence to the value 0.

When the Event onend... fired (meaning the cuffs are unequipped) just restore the original value.

 

I do not know if this works, but this would be my first trial.

 

Regards

 

[Kharos]

21 hours ago, Adetu said:

I do not know if this works, but this would be my first trial.

 

Bound NPCs (followers etc.) receive a special package with the "ignore combat" flag set. This is necessary to prevent the weapon drawn animations from overriding the bound hands animations when combat starts. So just setting actor values like confidence will not do the trick, the behavior needs to be set up in the package instead.

 

The current strategy of bound followers during combat is to stay close to the player. If they get close enough, they will cower ("sneak") to make it harder to hit them with ranged weapons. I hope that this works well both when the player is not bound (the player can defend the followers more easily if the followers stay close) and when the player is bound (the player will probably run away, the followers will try to stay close so they will run away, too).

 

If you want to try to improve that behavior, take a look at package template RH_BoundHandsFollowActorTemplate. But a fair warning, packages can be hard to set up, and this one especially so because it needs to function both in and out of combat.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

On 4/9/2019 at 2:33 AM, Kharos said:

 

Bound NPCs (followers etc.) receive a special package with the "ignore combat" flag set. This is necessary to prevent the weapon drawn animations from overriding the bound hands animations when combat starts. So just setting actor values like confidence will not do the trick, the behavior needs to be set up in the package instead.

 

The current strategy of bound followers during combat is to stay close to the player. If they get close enough, they will cower ("sneak") to make it harder to hit them with ranged weapons. I hope that this works well both when the player is not bound (the player can defend the followers more easily if the followers stay close) and when the player is bound (the player will probably run away, the followers will try to stay close so they will run away, too).

 

If you want to try to improve that behavior, take a look at package template RH_BoundHandsFollowActorTemplate. But a fair warning, packages can be hard to set up, and this one especially so because it needs to function both in and out of combat.

One of the only criticisms of the mod currently, is the package override forcing bound NPC's too close, namely trying to get to your exact coordinates, it seems. [Physically impossible, given you're not a 1x1 pixel, and have collision :P]

 

That then causes them to either be too in-your-face, literally, and they will frequently [seem to] fail to path even when nearby/on flat ground, and 'port to the player, whatever the distance.
Might be as simple as upping the radius from the player [If it's similar to LootDetector's pick-up range, upping it to ~160-200 would work]. Probably not, if I had to guess at Bethesda and the issues I've seen modders try and tackle.

One other fairly minor one is key overabundance, personally. Makes sense currently, though, given the escape difficulty, especially the currently-inescapable one with hinged-facing-away.

Only other issue off the top of my head, is the total-disable of furniture interaction, like sitting on stools/chairs, etc.
I'd have to check what DD's doing with that, but I know the main way around it for some furniture interactions effectively breaks/ignores the item mesh, and defaults to the furniture one, like the TD_woodenhorse animation. Use that with a DD Armbinder on, and you'll find out what I mean.


Outside of that, love it, works flawlessly, haven't had any issues thus far with the 0.2 RC3, just saw the updates and will have a look at the 0.3 B2 tomorrow.

[Kharos]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

16 hours ago, Nebuchadnezzer2 said:

One of the only criticisms of the mod currently, is the package override forcing bound NPC's too close, namely trying to get to your exact coordinates, it seems. [Physically impossible, given you're not a 1x1 pixel, and have collision :P]

I am currently working on the packages, though I cannot promise anything, packages are still difficult for me. Also different players prefer different distances, e.g. I prefer the NPCs to stay rather close.

 

16 hours ago, Nebuchadnezzer2 said:

Only other issue off the top of my head, is the total-disable of furniture interaction, like sitting on stools/chairs, etc.

Yeah, I would love to enable some of them. My understanding of animations is still not perfect, but as far as I know furniture animations generally override arm offset animations. For example if I allow regular interaction with chairs, the hands will no longer be bound when the character sits down. It may be possible to work around that by creating a sit down animation that is a idle animation (as far as I know idle animations work with arm offset animations) and then carefully playing the idle such that the position matches the chair. I see that AAF offers some automation for that, so maybe I should take a closer look at using AAF. Of course the other problem is that I am still very much a beginner when it gets to creating animations.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

Yeah, I'm not too sure how feasible it would be to have working furniture interactions, as their animations tend to ignore pretty much anything.

Might be doable for some, like the bar stools, but I think you'd be needing to create custom animations either with/overwriting the originals when bound in some way. Which would be a fucking LOT of work

[EgoBallistic]

7 hours ago, Nebuchadnezzer2 said:

Yeah, I'm not too sure how feasible it would be to have working furniture interactions, as their animations tend to ignore pretty much anything.

Yep.  Furniture animations ignore everything else including animations flavors, so new animations would have to be made.  A lot of work for a fairly niche case.

 

DD doesn't seem to address this at all.  As I recall, bound characters can freely sit anywhere, which looks bad since they are not restrained when sitting.  But I don't think DD applies any packages to bound NPCs.  It is very player focused and mostly uses events (onequip, etc) to block the player's actions, which generally does nothing to NPCs.

[Kharos]

4 hours ago, EgoBallistic said:

Yep.  Furniture animations ignore everything else including animations flavors, so new animations would have to be made.  A lot of work for a fairly niche case.

 

DD doesn't seem to address this at all.  As I recall, bound characters can freely sit anywhere, which looks bad since they are not restrained when sitting.  But I don't think DD applies any packages to bound NPCs.  It is very player focused and mostly uses events (onequip, etc) to block the player's actions, which generally does nothing to NPCs.

 

DD puts _TD_NoFightingSpell from Torture Devices on bound NPCs. Depending on whether the NPC is following the player, they end up either in _TD_BoundHandsFollowPackageAlias or in _TD_BoundHandsPackageAlias (both are defined in quest  _TD_General_Functions). This will put a package on their package stack (either _TD_BoundHandsFollowPackage or  _TD_BoundHandsPackage).

 

I studied Torture Devices extensively when I started working on Real Handcuffs, and I learnt a lot from it. There are reasons that it has the top spot in my "Thanks And Acknowledgements" section .

 

[Edit] In other words, it does put packages on the NPCs, but these packages have some "holes" that cause bound NPCs to misbehave. In addition the AI can be very stubborn - I had to add some additional scripts to catch situations where the package alone was not sufficient.

[EgoBallistic]

35 minutes ago, Kharos said:

[Edit] In other words, it does put packages on the NPCs, but these packages have some "holes" that cause bound NPCs to misbehave. In addition the AI can be very stubborn - I had to add some additional scripts to catch situations where the package alone was not sufficient.

Thanks for clarifying.  I was just going by what I have seen in game, which is that for the most part NPCs act as if they don't have packages on them blocking furniture use at all, and that DD has a lot of issues with NPCs in general.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

 

13 hours ago, Kharos said:

 

DD puts _TD_NoFightingSpell from Torture Devices on bound NPCs. Depending on whether the NPC is following the player, they end up either in _TD_BoundHandsFollowPackageAlias or in _TD_BoundHandsPackageAlias (both are defined in quest  _TD_General_Functions). This will put a package on their package stack (either _TD_BoundHandsFollowPackage or  _TD_BoundHandsPackage).

 

I studied Torture Devices extensively when I started working on Real Handcuffs, and I learnt a lot from it. There are reasons that it has the top spot in my "Thanks And Acknowledgements" section .

 

[Edit] In other words, it does put packages on the NPCs, but these packages have some "holes" that cause bound NPCs to misbehave. In addition the AI can be very stubborn - I had to add some additional scripts to catch situations where the package alone was not sufficient.

Hmm.

I think the author of CRX could use that.
It's a decent idea, the Animations are decent, if played fairly slowly [mostly the 'sit/stand' for them], but the NPC's will wander if you've fast-traveled or [if I recall correctly] slept.

Also a shame the pathing for them seems a bit bugged, but that could be some accumulated issues with my current install, so I can't really blame them for that without testing it.

 

18 hours ago, EgoBallistic said:

Yep.  Furniture animations ignore everything else including animations flavors, so new animations would have to be made.  A lot of work for a fairly niche case.

 

DD doesn't seem to address this at all.  As I recall, bound characters can freely sit anywhere, which looks bad since they are not restrained when sitting.  But I don't think DD applies any packages to bound NPCs.  It is very player focused and mostly uses events (onequip, etc) to block the player's actions, which generally does nothing to NPCs.

13 hours ago, EgoBallistic said:

Thanks for clarifying.  I was just going by what I have seen in game, which is that for the most part NPCs act as if they don't have packages on them blocking furniture use at all, and that DD has a lot of issues with NPCs in general.

Yeah, if use an Armbinder, for instance, and interact with TD's Wooden Horse, as an example, you can see the armbinder, but your character's arms still move to the Horse anim's position.

One exception seems to be the straightjackets, mostly because I think they zap everything intended to be hidden, like the arms, most of the legs, etc.

If I recall correctly though, cuffed NPC's [or the player] using some furniture keeps the cuffed animations, but I think that only really affects some[/all?] chairs, like the bar stool.
If I had to guess, probably because of the 'is injured, thus use this offset'. Similarly, when a cuffed player with DD/DCW's Vibrate effect starts the [I think it's the] Horny animation, they don't move the arms according to the animation, and keep them in their 'cuffed' position.

Not sure if you could get around the 'default/innate' furniture animations without something like AAF or replacement animations.


Also, something I found interesting, the Combat Zone 'on display' raiders have in their 'Encounter Zone', "neverReset: True". [Screenshot pair in the spoilers]
I suspect that's why they stay in that 'kneeling' anim permanently, and I was curious if someone's looked at using something [like DD items] to enable/disable that, or if it causes some issues.
 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

[Kharos]

I just uploaded a new beta version (0.3 beta 3). This one took me much longer than I anticipated, for various reasons.

 

New feature: Broken handcuffs. These work as locked bracelets. They can be created at the armor workbench, but the main use case is somehing different:

New feature: Breaking handcuffs. Players who are bound can break their handcuffs using any "owned" workbench (not the armor workbench, but the main workbench of a settlement). This solves the "inescapable" situation with hinged handcuffs. Please note that this is still a work in progress: There are currently no animations, and I will probably tweak the interaction after adding animations. Broken handcuffs can be repaired at the armor workbench (but not while they are worn).
Improvement: Bound followers/slaves told to go to a settlement will no longer run the whole distance. They will walk if the player is close, jog if the player is a bit further away. If attacked they will try to stick to the player for protection; if the player is out of range, they will start running instead.
Bugfix: Fix bug causing followers to lose their "bound hands" animations in some situations (they would look "free" with the handcuffs on their wrists).

Other: Various other small bugfixes and improvements, e.g. edited follow player package to reduce chance of teleporting, fixed handling of keywords, etc.

[Tentacus]

Sounds awesome Kharos. Can't wait to try it!

 

Interesting that you say you fixed the bug where they'd lose the bound hands animation. That was a problem sometimes for ZAP for Skyrim when entering a new Cell, was always a pain.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:20 PM, Kharos said:

I just uploaded a new beta version (0.3 beta 3). This one took me much longer than I anticipated, for various reasons.

Been doing pretty well so far

 

Quote

 

New feature: Broken handcuffs. These work as locked bracelets. They can be created at the armor workbench, but the main use case is somehing different:

New feature: Breaking handcuffs. Players who are bound can break their handcuffs using any "owned" workbench (not the armor workbench, but the main workbench of a settlement). This solves the "inescapable" situation with hinged handcuffs. Please note that this is still a work in progress: There are currently no animations, and I will probably tweak the interaction after adding animations. Broken handcuffs can be repaired at the armor workbench (but not while they are worn).
Improvement: Bound followers/slaves told to go to a settlement will no longer run the whole distance. They will walk if the player is close, jog if the player is a bit further away. If attacked they will try to stick to the player for protection; if the player is out of range, they will start running instead.
Bugfix: Fix bug causing followers to lose their "bound hands" animations in some situations (they would look "free" with the handcuffs on their wrists).

Other: Various other small bugfixes and improvements, e.g. edited follow player package to reduce chance of teleporting, fixed handling of keywords, etc.

Seems to have been some unintended consequences with the extended range and/or distances from the player in general, I think.

Works nicely in a settlement, from what I've seen, and while they tend to stand a bit close, they're not constantly warping 2m to you, and you can walk back and forth short distances without them running up in your face constantly, which is great.

 

Have had issues out in the Commonwealth though, with their 'acceptable distance'/pathing. I'll have to check and see if it's really when I've had them wearin the cuffs or not, as it's blurred together a little already, so probably don't worry bout that too much just yet.

Need to go test the other stuff, but sounds like a good idea.
Already see some improvements in RH that I'd like to see implemented with/in stuff like DD/TD.
Still need some more furniture options, without going full AAF-SEU-like. >_<

Gunna need some mods built of the back of RH, to apply/remove cuffs, now

[Kharos]

On 4/24/2019 at 8:12 PM, Tentacus said:

Sounds awesome Kharos. Can't wait to try it!

 

Interesting that you say you fixed the bug where they'd lose the bound hands animation. That was a problem sometimes for ZAP for Skyrim when entering a new Cell, was always a pain.

I did not say I fixed "The" bug. I fixed one situation where I could reproduce the issue in my game. I know that at least one user still has this bug, and I cannot reproduce it even when following his steps :(.

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

Don't mind me, Apparently talkin out my ass, since the game proved me wrong

[MrCruelJohn]

On 4/24/2019 at 1:12 PM, Tentacus said:

Sounds awesome Kharos. Can't wait to try it!

 

Interesting that you say you fixed the bug where they'd lose the bound hands animation. That was a problem sometimes for ZAP for Skyrim when entering a new Cell, was always a pain.

 

I know not related here, but saw your tag lines - when you going to make your safe passage companions into "Devious Followers" like skyrim…   just seems like a good basis... or a sort - maybe they escort you handcuffed to some location - and they have the key!  Just a thought.

 

Just downloaded the latest kharos and starting new playthrough, so should be a good test for a week or so... 

John

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

6 hours ago, Kharos said:

I did not say I fixed "The" bug. I fixed one situation where I could reproduce the issue in my game. I know that at least one user still has this bug, and I cannot reproduce it even when following his steps :(.

If you want one test case, throw handcuffs on Piper and go into the Museum of Witchcraft.

She'll investigate a door down there as you go through, walkin up to it weapon out.
Interrupted her with the companion command interact, and she went straight back to being cuffed.

[Tentacus]

On 4/25/2019 at 9:24 PM, MrCruelJohn said:

 

I know not related here, but saw your tag lines - when you going to make your safe passage companions into "Devious Followers" like skyrim…   just seems like a good basis... or a sort - maybe they escort you handcuffed to some location - and they have the key!  Just a thought.

 

Just downloaded the latest kharos and starting new playthrough, so should be a good test for a week or so... 

John

I don't have any plans for anything like that but there will be intregration between Mercs and safe passage and 2 adult mods I've been working on for WAY too long. The first one to be released will be a player prostitution mod and if you have Blaze you can sell your wares in Raider camps without fear. The same is true for Gunners and Sarge. There is also a decent amount of silent dialogue you'll never see if you don't have Mercs installed.

 

The other mod which I originally made for Fourplay but never finished requires a SIGNIFICANT amount of remaking so is pretty far off. It is a mod that lets the player be a drug dealer and it uses Mercs in a similar fashion, allowing you to sell your wares in Raider and Gunner camps.

On 4/25/2019 at 5:12 PM, Kharos said:

I did not say I fixed "The" bug. I fixed one situation where I could reproduce the issue in my game. I know that at least one user still has this bug, and I cannot reproduce it even when following his steps :(.

Yes... that makes sense. I really wouldn't fret about it too much as long as there are ways to correct it in game.