Devious Devices - Laura's Bondage Shop (11-dec-2023) V3.43

[aurreth]

39 minutes ago, Laura said:

Did you leave right after Sloane left? The scene continues after she leaves and leaving too early could mess it up. If that's the case, load a previous save and wait for them to finish.

 

Yes, it is generally a good idea to wait around the shop until Laura and Katarina are done talking.  They sometimes go on for a couple minutes after giving you a quest  

[Quoozey]

Completed A Familiar Face last night. 10/10

Spoiler

I wanted to ask Sona if I could keep the collar.

I could not complete Origins though. I tried making multiple saves to retry over and over and "paused" multiple mods in the MCU to stop weird things from happening but the furthest I could get was in the new cell with Soane staring at me from outside and nothing else happening.

Spoiler

While fiddling around with it, I also found that I could escape the cell by getting close to the edge and sitting on a chair outside of it.

This is on SSE, both before and after replacing 3.32 BETA with 3.32 version-by tznvlw

Edited December 29, 2021 by rainbowgasm

[aurreth]

37 minutes ago, rainbowgasm said:

I could not complete Origins though. I tried making multiple saves to retry over and over and "paused" multiple mods in the MCU to stop weird things from happening but the furthest I could get was in the new cell with Soane staring at me from outside and nothing else happening.

 

This is where I always get stuck, in the cell on the second floor with Sloane staring and not saying anything.  For me it's cause by Darius being stuck in the basement.  You can unstick him by:

 

1.  Use the console command tfc to enter free cam mode.

2.  Move the camera down to the basement to Darius.

3.  Use the console to target Darius (open console, click on him), the either disable and enable him (might work) or recycleactor him (works, but strips his clothes).

4.  Exit free cam mode (console, tfc again).

 

That usually makes everything work for me for the rest of the quest.

[Quoozey]

3 hours ago, aurreth said:

 

This is where I always get stuck, in the cell on the second floor with Sloane staring and not saying anything.  For me it's cause by Darius being stuck in the basement.  You can unstick him by:

 

1.  Use the console command tfc to enter free cam mode.

2.  Move the camera down to the basement to Darius.

3.  Use the console to target Darius (open console, click on him), the either disable and enable him (might work) or recycleactor him (works, but strips his clothes).

4.  Exit free cam mode (console, tfc again).

 

That usually makes everything work for me for the rest of the quest.

I'll give that a try, thanks.

 

Edit: it worked!

Edited December 29, 2021 by rainbowgasm

[zouzou]

Hi all,

 

I try to get a full run of the Origin quets on SSE but as many I'm facing a lot of blockage due to NPC not being on the right floor. I manage to pass that by moving npc using "TCL+moveto player" but I ultimatly got stuck near the end in the 1st view sequence (no TCL cheat this time ).

 

Anyone got an idea of to pass that?

[aurreth]

31 minutes ago, zouzou said:

Hi all,

 

I try to get a full run of the Origin quets on SSE but as many I'm facing a lot of blockage due to NPC not being on the right floor. I manage to pass that by moving npc using "TCL+moveto player" but I ultimatly got stuck near the end in the 1st view sequence (no TCL cheat this time ).

 

Anyone got an idea of to pass that?

 

The one where you are lying on the floor?  Hmm, I've had it kinda pause there, don't remember if I had to do anything to get it to continue.

[zouzou]

So i found the source of the error (the Stranger was also stuck on the above floor). I was able to continue by spawning this npc on me (I had to use the release function in the ZAZ MCM menu to enable control of my PC again).

 

Overall very great update too bad for the blockage due to NPC being on the right floor (in my case first Heidi then Darius and the Warden during the escape part and finally the stranger). THe strange thing in that on LE I encounter no NPC position issue.

[aurreth]

56 minutes ago, zouzou said:

So i found the source of the error (the Stranger was also stuck on the above floor). I was able to continue by spawning this npc on me (I had to use the release function in the ZAZ MCM menu to enable control of my PC again).

 

Overall very great update too bad for the blockage due to NPC being on the right floor (in my case first Heidi then Darius and the Warden during the escape part and finally the stranger). THe strange thing in that on LE I encounter no NPC position issue.

 

Yeah, something goes wrong in the translation from LE to SE, but there's no error checking or debug logging in the script to figure out what is hanging... assuming it IS something in the script and not in the quest's scene handling.  It feels like a spawn/action issue, where the NPC is enabled but there's not enough delay after that to make sure it's in-game and ready to move.

 

I'll take a look later.  I just did a clean wipe and reinstall, so my CK isn't set up with all the proper source files for things like SkyUI.  Have to hunt those down again.

[aurreth]

So, what I'm guessing is there is some subtle difference between LE and SE scripts that is causing MoveTo events to fire before the NPC is enabled properly.

 

Here's what I'm seeing:

 

		Sloane.Enable()
		Darius.Enable()

		Sloane.MoveTo(OutsideBedroom1)
		Darius.MoveTo(OutsideBedroom1)

 

MoveTo doesn't require walking, it just teleports to that location.  Most of the NPC movement is handled this way.  They spawn in and get teleported to the location they need to start at for the scene.

 

Here's the problem:  there is no check that the NPC is actually enabled before the MoveTo command.  The script just barrels ahead, and it's possible that a bit of lag could cause MoveTo to fire before the NPC fully exists.  NPC never gets the MoveTo command?  It stands there until another command forces it to move, and that frequently means the NPC has to walk to the other end of the house 2 stories away, and get stuck on every piece of clutter along the way.

 

Now, this is the ugly way to do it (I'm using Darius as an example because he's what I always have problems with):

 

Darius.Enable()
while (Darius.IsDisabled())
  Utility.Wait(.1)
endWhile
Darius.MoveTo(OutsideBedroom1)

 

While loops are generally a bad thing in Skyrim because, for example, if something glitches and Sloane is never enabled the loop never ends.  Someone more familiar than me with Papyrus could undoubtedly come up with a better way.

 

 

 

[Tetras66]

17 minutes ago, aurreth said:

While loops are generally a bad thing in Skyrim because, for example, if something glitches and Sloane is never enabled the loop never ends.  Someone more familiar than me with Papyrus could undoubtedly come up with a better way.

 

One option is to register for a single update and then check if they're in the right place, or not ? Is this code outside of stages/scenes?

[aurreth]

9 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

 

One option is to register for a single update and then check if they're in the right place, or not ? Is this code outside of stages/scenes?

 

It's from the quest script.  The quest is script driven, not stage driven.  Flow control is handled by the script, with the stages just used to keep track of progress.

 

So yes, the code is outside of stages and scenes.  Stage advancement is handled by the script, and scenes are started and stopped by the script.

[Tetras66]

40 minutes ago, aurreth said:

 

It's from the quest script.  The quest is script driven, not stage driven.  Flow control is handled by the script, with the stages just used to keep track of progress.

 

So yes, the code is outside of stages and scenes.  Stage advancement is handled by the script, and scenes are started and stopped by the script.

 

I generally don't use enable / disable in stages and scenes because my aliases seemed to fill incorrectly if they were disabled when the game started, but idk how it works in a script. 

[aurreth]

38 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

 

I generally don't use enable / disable in stages and scenes because my aliases seemed to fill incorrectly if they were disabled when the game started, but idk how it works in a script. 

 

I'm working with what we have.     I am so not going to try and do a complete rewrite of Laura's work, I'm nowhere near her league in quest building.  All I'm trying to do is isolate the problems and see if there is a way to fix them.

 

So right now we get a bunch of people saying "so and so got stuck", or "I can't get past whatever".  What they aren't doing is providing important problem solving information.  Where exactly are you stuck?  And I don't mean stage, I mean where is the player and how exactly has the scene stalled?  LE?  SE?  AE?  Modlist so we can look for commonalities, see if something is interfering?

 

I mean I get stuck on Origins in exactly one place.  Why is it only that one place, as opposed to someone else who gets stuck in 3?  I have no idea.  So I'm gonna try a few things to fix MY problem, and if it works maybe we can use a similar fix on others.

[Laura]

@aurreth

You maybe onto something with the enable command. There has to be something that SE does differently from LE. A different timing or method for the MoveTo command or Enable command could be the culprit.

I go completely overboard with the scenes in my mod. I don't know of any other mod that uses scenes this much. So we're somewhat in uncharted territory. Origin is also the first quest that uses the MoveTo command this much.

 

Let me know how the Darius spawn change thingy goes.

[Laura]

21 hours ago, zouzou said:

So i found the source of the error (the Stranger was also stuck on the above floor). I was able to continue by spawning this npc on me (I had to use the release function in the ZAZ MCM menu to enable control of my PC again).

 

Overall very great update too bad for the blockage due to NPC being on the right floor (in my case first Heidi then Darius and the Warden during the escape part and finally the stranger). THe strange thing in that on LE I encounter no NPC position issue.

That's really weird. His disabled position is also in the basement and he never goes to the top floor. When he's enabled he should be downstairs, which is where I placed him.

SE really likes putting NPCs where they don't belong.

[aurreth]

3 hours ago, Laura said:

putting NPCs where they don't belong.

 

Speaking of which.... lol

 

Guards 2, 3 and 4 start disabled.  They are enabled and moved to OutsideBedroom1.  Later on they are disabled again.  That's it.  They do nothing else.  They are set dressing, furniture.  Sooo, why not just start them enabled at OutsideBedroom1?  No enable/moveto/disable commands, just stick them outside the bedroom and leave them there   

[aurreth]

Here's a new one lol  In The Trapped Hunter, you are supposed to go to Silisus' body on the lakeshore.  As soon as I got somewhat close the body went shooting off into the distance.

 

I chased it.  I targeted it in the console and moved myself to it.  It kept going.  I moved it to me, it shot off again.  Finally I toggled off his AI, moved him to me, and used the console to steal his inventory, which completed the stage.

 

Frustrating, but funny  

[Elsidia]

22 hours ago, Laura said:

I don't know of any other mod that uses scenes this much.

Deviously pink mod uses scenes too and there sometimes player and NPC stuck in movement to position where need to be. Sometimes for very long time or forever. Cure - reload previous save or try put npc and player to position from where it can reach a destination using console. Sometimes it force NPC or player move again to necessary position and trigger scene.

 

Most funny bug was NPC exit from home - player follows and found that door is locked and stuck to try open the door and failed. Cure - unlock door by console)

[aurreth]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:35 AM, User3232 said:

Also I've found solution to Follow the guard bug in Origin quest.

When you need to sleep type into console

tfc

then go to the main room, pick Hinde and type

disable

then go to sleep. After awaking guard will talk to you. When you'll start following the guard don't forget to enable Hinde back.

So looks like the guard is staring at Hinde after the end of conversation. And it's he stuck at this task. He wants to stare at Hinde (even if she is not in the same room) that he forgets about his next task to guide you to another cage. By disabling Hinde he remembers his next task. But it's better to disable her before you go to sleep.

 

I can confirm this.  For some reason Hinde keeps getting placed on the second floor.  I'm trying to tweak the code so she ends up in the correct location, but the game is being uncooperative    

[m1d]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:35 PM, User3232 said:

Also I've found solution to Follow the guard bug in Origin quest.

When you need to sleep type into console

tfc

then go to the main room, pick Hinde and type

disable

then go to sleep. After awaking guard will talk to you. When you'll start following the guard don't forget to enable Hinde back.

So looks like the guard is staring at Hinde after the end of conversation. And it's he stuck at this task. He wants to stare at Hinde (even if she is not in the same room) that he forgets about his next task to guide you to another cage. By disabling Hinde he remembers his next task. But it's better to disable her before you go to sleep.

I used recycleactor which put her in the cell down stairs and can confirm this works.

[m1d]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:35 PM, User3232 said:

Also I've found solution to Follow the guard bug in Origin quest.

When you need to sleep type into console

tfc

then go to the main room, pick Hinde and type

disable

then go to sleep. After awaking guard will talk to you. When you'll start following the guard don't forget to enable Hinde back.

So looks like the guard is staring at Hinde after the end of conversation. And it's he stuck at this task. He wants to stare at Hinde (even if she is not in the same room) that he forgets about his next task to guide you to another cage. By disabling Hinde he remembers his next task. But it's better to disable her before you go to sleep.

I had to use recycleator at the point where you escape on sloane and the two strangers

[aurreth]

Alright, I've tried a bunch of tweaks and I can't get Origin to run right on SE.  It's almost as if the papyrus MoveTo command is either not working, or working sporadically, which causes actors to miss their marks and bugs out the AI.  For example Hinde is supposed to spawn in her cell, but keeps appearing on the floor above.  The next line moves her to the bed in her cell, but she doesn't move.

 

Hmm, from CK site, MoveTo bugs:

 

Quote

• If an actor is already in the cell, and the player is also in the cell, leaving the cell, or arriving in the cell, MoveTo() does not function. As cells can be quite large in cities and multi-level buildings, ensuing dialogue can occur with the actor out-of-sight and/or out-of-hearing. Try DisableNoWait(), MoveTo(), EnableNoWait(), EvaluatePackage() sequence. Take care that the sequence happens out-of-sight of the player, such as during passage through a loading door.

 

I'll have to sort out that sequence.

 

[aurreth]

2 hours ago, m1d said:

I used recycleactor which put her in the cell down stairs and can confirm this works.

 

Yes, because it forces her back to her spawn point, which is in the cell.  I'm trying to figure out why she's spawning in and then getting moved to the 2nd floor.  There's nothing in the code that should do that, and everything I've tried to move her back to where she belongs fails.

 

She's not the only one that happens to either.  The Stranger is supposed to spawn in the basement, but ends up on the second floor, where his AI takes over and he sits down at the table to have a snack.  The Warden (who we never actually see by the way, due to camera angles) also does this.

 

So, why are the guards, Sloane, Laura and Katarina showing up in the right place, but the rest of them (Hinde, Darius, Warden, Stranger) bugging out?  Maybe because the guards and Sloane are stored in a storage cell and then moved into place, but Hinde and company aren't?

 

Hmm, now that I can check, after I clean up the mess I've made already.

 

 

[Tetras66]

14 minutes ago, aurreth said:

 

Yes, because it forces her back to her spawn point, which is in the cell.  I'm trying to figure out why she's spawning in and then getting moved to the 2nd floor.  There's nothing in the code that should do that, and everything I've tried to move her back to where she belongs fails.

 

She's not the only one that happens to either.  The Stranger is supposed to spawn in the basement, but ends up on the second floor, where his AI takes over and he sits down at the table to have a snack.  The Warden (who we never actually see by the way, due to camera angles) also does this.

 

Do they spawn to xmarkers? If so, try moving the xmarkers a little bit higher than the ground and away from any obstacles (or walls).

[aurreth]

1 hour ago, aurreth said:

So, why are the guards, Sloane, Laura and Katarina showing up in the right place, but the rest of them (Hinde, Darius, Warden, Stranger) bugging out?  Maybe because the guards and Sloane are stored in a storage cell and then moved into place, but Hinde and company aren't?

 

This works.  I just ran the entire Origin with no glitches, no one being out of place.  This was NOT on a clean save, just from a save before Origin started.

 

So the solution:  place Hinde, Darius, Stranger, and Warden in Laura's storage cell.  Delete them from Sloane's house.  Change the Origin script properties to point to the actors in the storage cell.  Minor script edits to move the Stranger into the house (he didn't have his own MoveTo command, and you have to add a property to give him a landing spot; total of two lines added).

 

Required a change to the ESP file, and compiling the script changes.  Of course saving the ESP in the Creation Kit changed the type from 43 (LE) to 44 (SE), and that might cause problems in earlier quests, no idea.  I'm not going to rerun the entire series again right now, 'cause I'm soooo tired of making apple cabbage stew.