Bondage Furniture World (Crime & Punishment)

[OccamsRazor04]

This is a fun mod when it works as intended. But unfortunately that seems to be pretty rare. Animations routinely break and the characters stand there doing nothing until the next part of the scene plays. Alignment with the furniture is off, and as others have mentioned, you can be hit at times and knocked out of the restraints. Then despite tweaking the settings numerous times, I keep being punished almost every time I'm near the furniture whether I've stolen anything or committed any crime.

 

In short: great idea, very buggy and messy execution. I'm having to uninstall this so it doesn't continue to break the immersion and interrupt my game.

[LinksSword]

This mod seems to break the mme milk pumps because of the stripping animation.

 

oof my bad realized i was using an older version and this was fixed later on.

[evilblade]

Is it not fully working here or did I just miss the furniture? Can you tell me some couple of places where it definitely should be?

The dialog option seems to work though..

[evilblade]

1 hour ago, evilblade said:

Is it not fully working here or did I just miss the furniture? Can you tell me some couple of places where it definitely should be?

The dialog option seems to work though..

Nevermind. Foun some at Dragonsreach

[test9554]

On 12/14/2019 at 12:59 AM, evilblade said:

Nevermind. Foun some at Dragonsreach

 

Where did you find it ?

 

i can't find one, I wonder if i have the right Zaz and Zap pack installed ?

[evilblade]

On 1/5/2020 at 2:40 AM, test9554 said:

 

Where did you find it ?

 

On the upper floor of Dragonsreach, above the central room with a big table.

[iggypop1]

Tyrant99

Are you still working on this?......you ever thought of a consensuel option for PC/Npc?

 

I had a look at an i loved all the furniture but i cant make it play as meant to

 

Keep it up....following this......

 

yours

[zabf]

Is this mod supposed to allow one to have more than one device active? I placed 5 pieces of furniture but can only get one activated at a time. I'd like to lock up a few npcs at a time. I can command a follower to get in it, but they get out when I leave the cell and return.

[sunnydayknight]

On 4/22/2020 at 8:10 AM, iggypop1 said:

Tyrant99

Are you still working on this?......you ever thought of a consensuel option for PC/Npc?

 

I had a look at an i loved all the furniture but i cant make it play as meant to

 

Keep it up....following this......

 

yours

2nded!  I would love to see this mod work with Kimy's Devious Devices - Contraptions.

[Altaïr-Qu-Ten]

Heya! I'm using this mod with SkyrimSE and was wondering, if it is possible to convert this mod for Open Cities with the xEdit script. Anyone got a clue?

[DanteGreenwood]

will this ever be on special edition?

[aidenkill]

Simply doesn't work. Always says that I I've forgiven. Someone can help me?

[Lupine00]

I guess this isn't supported any longer, but I'll raise this anyway...

 

I'm getting the strip-search event because the PC is wearing a chastity-belt and collar.

 

I don't believe either of those devices should block furniture use.

Possibly, the belt would block some "crotch-intrusive" Zap devices, but not any I've aware of that belong to by BFW.

 

So, that strip-search event should not need to fire.

 

 

Secondly, it's firing outdoors, in wilderness areas, if there happens to be an NPC around.

 

Thirdly, it's firing for NPCs with no LOS, who are quite some distance away.

 

Fourthly, in some cases it does not clear from the triggered NPC. They retain a "..." dialog that remains for multiple searches.

After some number of searches it eventually clears, but often more than one.

(This is different to the minor issue where the ... takes a little while to clear after the sex, though the condition should probably be cleared at the start of the sex, not after it's finished).

[Tyrant99]

Collars do mess with all ZAP furniture that have neck locks.

 

You can get an anti-groping decree by doing some favors for a Jarl.

[Lupine00]

On 6/15/2020 at 5:54 PM, sunnydayknight said:

I would love to see this mod work with Kimy's Devious Devices - Contraptions.

But that wouldn't add any new devices that aren't already supported by the mod.

The contraptions are mainly based off vanilla decorations, and Zap has far more stuff.

And as you are put in (and taken out of) the devices by this mod, any functionality relating to contraptions would be wasted.

[Lupine00]

18 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

Collars do mess with all ZAP furniture that have neck locks.

Not in practice. Most Zap furniture has huge gaps around the neck, so there's plenty of room for a DD collar.

Slaverun doesn't care about this at all and it's never a problem.

 

Certainly, I'd accept the minor possibility (and it doesn't happen in practice) of a less optimal visual, over loss of the entire furniture mechanic.

[Tyrant99]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Not in practice. Most Zap furniture has huge gaps around the neck, so there's plenty of room for a DD collar.

Slaverun doesn't care about this at all and it's never a problem.

 

Certainly, I'd accept the minor possibility (and it doesn't happen in practice) of a less optimal visual, over loss of the entire furniture mechanic.

Once upon a time I did extensive testing of each piece of DD equipment and all different types of ZAP furniture to see which ones would and wouldn't cause conflict. I remember that DD collars were an issue. It isn't simply aesthetic where the collar 'clips' with the furniture or something, but it would interfere with the mechanics of locking to the furniture. The ZAP furniture utilizes certain armor slots, just like DD, and when they conflict over the same slot, it can cause problems with using locking mechanics on ZAP furniture. Usually it's wrists, ankles, and neck, but sometimes they fight over other armor slots such as chastity belts or even corsets, if I recall correctly, depends on the furniture. As this Mod uses lots of furniture and they can be selected randomly, the normal assumption is that if it can go wrong, it will.

 

You could ask Kimy or Tara how well modern ZAP and DD are supposed to work together, and the answer is, not at all. I built out some mechanics to try to accommodate DD users in this Mod to prevent issues that I know will cause problems, based on my testing. However, at the end of the day, DD and ZAP frameworks are at odds with each other, and neither framework Dev has any interest in improving compatibility.

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

The ZAP furniture utilizes certain armor slots, just like DD, and when they conflict over the same slot, it can cause problems with using locking mechanics on ZAP furniture. Usually it's wrists, ankles, and neck, but sometimes they fight over other armor slots such as chastity belts or even corsets, if I recall correctly, depends on the furniture.

I'll take your word that this is a common issue, but from what I've seen, furnitures use various slots, depending on the furniture, some use none, others might use collar, and another might use wrists.

 

This means that the optimal result is to handle each furniture type individually. DD at least gives you some idea of what slots it is consuming (unless we're talking about a hood, in which case all bets are off). 

 

Given that you're adding the Zap items into the world as ObjectReferences, each one can have its own data to indicate its slot requirements, which would allow for optimal resolution of the problem.

 

e.g. Instead of banning all furniture because you have wrist cuffs on, only ban relevant furniture; and the same with collars, belts, etc.

The vast number of furnitures are obviously not using the belt slot, and not so many using the collar either.

 

I guess this wasn't considered originally because the aim was not to support DD, but only to make a mod for Zap furnitures, which I can sympathize with.

 

 

A mechanic was added to try and work around this (the bondage groping), so there's that.

 

I think the weirder problems, where NPCs bondage grope outside in the wilderness, or will repeatedly grope, or teleport from out of sight onto the player and start groping, with highly inappropriate dialog, are probably more deserving of investigation than the underlying conflict between DD and Zap items; but clearly, cleaner solutions do exist to make these interoperate.

 

This hilights a small problem, that if you are locked in DDs you can't clear your thief status, so the groping just goes on and on, and on, everywhere you go, with no real justification other than the NPCs can get away with it because you're in bondage.

 

I can walk through the gate in Solitude, and "Things have gone missing..." or past some shack by the roadside, and the occupant will run out and shake me down, or arrive in Markarth, or Riften, and meet the same reception immediately. Or be walking through an apparently empty field, and an NPC from a ruined tower some considerable distance away will teleport to me and check me out for stolen items, then steal my stuff (the irony!)

 

It leads to disabling the feature, which negates the effort put into creating it.

At least, once I was able to determine the source of the events, I was able to disable them. That is appreciated.

 

Some of these issues could be fixed with a location test that only enables the feature in civilized areas, maybe even let the player decide how generous they want to be with that test? Dwellings only? Dwellings and walled cities? Or add in towns with inns? At least using different dialog lines would make it feel less strange.

 

 

If I ever use Zap furnitures again, I'll certainly bear the slotting issue in mind ... because the simplistic solution to this is to remove the DD items and then put them back afterwards ... and I think some mods do that (Simple Slavery for example). It's obviously cleaner if you only remove the DD's that conflict though, and that means being able to determine the slot use of the Zap objects.

[Tyrant99]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Given that you're adding the Zap items into the world as ObjectReferences, each one can have its own data to indicate its slot requirements, which would allow for optimal resolution of the problem.

It's been awhile since I looked at all of this, but Zap and DD conflict in at least two major flavors as I recall. One is slot use assignment that is independent of animations. - This can mostly be resolved by comparing furniture keywords and DD slot usage. The other is animations, - DD periodically triggers animations based on items worn (vibrator orgasms etc.) which interfere with currently playing furniture animations. As these are mostly arousal based events, locking arousal via script while the player is confined in furniture would mostly prevent DD anim events from triggering.

 

Using these two approaches would solve most compatibility issues, but not all of them. I never found a completely satisfactory solution for bridging the compatibility gap. And based on various conversations (or arguments and name-calling) that I saw between the framework devs, they didn't seem to be at all interested in coming up with a satisfactory solution either. Hence my decision to treat the frameworks as more or less mutually exclusive and actually a big part of my decision to drop work on WRB which leveraged both frameworks extensively.

 

There's also some persistent problem in ZAP with certain furniture that can break both animation and script events, - this has to do with the camera placement in the furniture animation itself. - All furniture animations include a camera in the animation that was in the 3DS Max scene and it gets exported with it, a badly placed camera in the animation breaks stuff. So some furniture animations need to be fixed - and there's no way to script this problem away. Whether this is or will be resolved in ZAP 9 I'm not sure.

 

As for doing all the analysis for all furniture and DD items and coming up with a database of sorts to track compatibility conflicts, it's certainly possible, but with 1,000+ furnitures and hundreds of DD items, you're talking about thousands of data points and a whole lot of testing. I don't personally have either the time or the inclination to sort that all out.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I think the weirder problems, where NPCs bondage grope outside in the wilderness, or will repeatedly grope, or teleport from out of sight onto the player and start groping, with highly inappropriate dialog, are probably more deserving of investigation than the underlying conflict between DD and Zap items; but clearly, cleaner solutions do exist to make these interoperate.

 

This hilights a small problem, that if you are locked in DDs you can't clear your thief status, so the groping just goes on and on, and on, everywhere you go, with no real justification other than the NPCs can get away with it because you're in bondage.

Can't you simply turn the groping off in the MCM if you don't like the mechanic? I thought that I added that in as an option.

 

And yes, I probably could probably design it quite a bit better, especially now, but I haven't been modding recently as I have some other stuff that I'm working on.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

If I ever use Zap furnitures again, I'll certainly bear the slotting issue in mind ... because the simplistic solution to this is to remove the DD items and then put them back afterwards ... and I think some mods do that (Simple Slavery for example). It's obviously cleaner if you only remove the DD's that conflict though, and that means being able to determine the slot use of the Zap objects.

Yes, I've done this as well, I think it more or less works fine on generics, but there's also plenty of block generic/special quest DD items, and then you're either failing to remove them because the quest designer is blocking interference from other scripts, or, you're potentially the breaking quests etc. that the items are intended to be used for. Either way, it doesn't work out too well.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

Whether this is or will be resolved in ZAP 9 I'm not sure.

? ? ? ? ?

Yes, I'm sure that will definitely happen.

Around the same time DD makes an effort not to break Zap by playing arousal idles.

 

 

  

2 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

Can't you simply turn the groping off in the MCM if you don't like the mechanic? I thought that I added that in as an option.

I can, and did, and also noted my appreciation of that feature.

 

  

2 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

there's also plenty of block generic/special quest DD items

You are allowed to remove a block generic if you put it back later.

Quest ... well that's now stupid ... not a feature any new DD mod should use, and only of value for legacy mods.

[Tyrant99]

12 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

You are allowed to remove a block generic if you put it back later.

Quest ... well that's now stupid.

Yeah, if I recall, I think there were several DCUR quests you could break, such as Damsel in Distress, as well as I believe some Captured Dream ones... And probably others. Also, iirc there was some custom keyword stuff that you could do on items that would make it impossible for other scripts to remove them even if they tried to remove block generic, so it wasn't even 100% reliable that you could always actually get the stuff off.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

Also, iirc there was some custom keyword stuff that you could do on items that would make it impossible for other scripts to remove them even if they tried to remove block generic, so it wasn't even 100% reliable that you could always actually get the stuff off.

Where it all really comes unstuck is old mods like Trapped in Rubber, which have their own - slightly compatible with DD - mechanisms for adding items, that only occasionally lock your game into a message-box loop and require a 'qqq' exit.

 

But the quest flag is now so obnoxious that I believe it should never be used in any modern mod.

The best-practice way for a new DD mod to behave is to use (at most) Block Generic and gracefully handle removal of the item in a way that allows the quest to resume later by some means.

 

But the Block Generic rules have always been that you could remove them temporarily, if you had a good reason, and that you should put them back unless there was some critical reason not to.

I believe the "rules" also allow you to replace a Block Generic with a Quest item, which presumably allows DCL to do as it pleases with its quests.

 

I'm not aware of a breaking Block Generic in DCL (or elsewhere), but that may simply be ignorance.

 

DCL itself used to behave strangely if you tried to start Rubber Doll while wearing a different quest collar, and may still do so (I haven't used it in a while), but your game did not explode. Damsel in Distress has been broken in practically every version of DCL it was included in. Even when it worked I don't think it was entirely trouble free. If it isn't completely replaced in some future version, I expect it will be removed entirely, as purging sketchy stuff in favor of reliability seems to be the new DCL approach.

 

CD was initially hosed when the rules were changed for fitting and removal of "heavy bondage" - armbinders, yokes, and such - which also broke Trapped in Rubber. CD got a sort of patch for that but TiR didn't, though I started making one I haven't bothered finishing it yet, but IIRC Veladarius' complained the most about the belts with magic rings being broken in a way that would force him to remake all the items. It certainly put an end to all the awkward contentions between CD and DCL items ... ultimately by eliminating CD altogether ... though I believe the real root of those problems had been improper use of keywords that (presumably) were supposed to be "injected" but weren't, causing them to be duplicated instead, leading to hilarity when they were obtained by name. That bug had been fixed for a while before DD 4.X appeared.

[Tyrant99]

It's been awhile since I've thought about this stuff, so you may be more familiar with the current state of these Mods. I guess CD is completely gone atm. I remember that Damsel in Distress was for sure an issue in DCL because it would run an event at the moment that all items were unequipped that would complete the quest. - This would get triggered erroneously if the items were removed prematurely and I believe even Simple Slavery would break it when it used to do the bad 'RemoveAll' call upon being captured (bad way to remove DD gear) - I think Lozeak subsequently fixed this though?

 

I think there might have also been something with the tentacle parasite and that one where all that pink shit gets applied, with CD, I seem to remember an issue with the belts in particular and the 'debt slave' stuff, anyway, it's been awhile and I'm sure a lot of this stuff has changed quite a bit since then.

 

At the time that I was working on it, I chose not to employ the temporarily remove devices approach because:

1: Not 100% reliable.

2: Potential to break some quest stuff.

 

[Guest AthenaESIV]

@Tyrant99

 

Heyo, copying this here because was discussing something with Lupine (she mentioned BFW) in another thread and was just curious about your thoughts (always loved your mods and still use a couple of them now  )

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

 

I really like the idea of interesting guard punishments, I actually saw that Body Search had a user made patch which removed the cell transfer, and trying it out it worked perfectly... I am going to rewrite the dialog for the mod to my tastes and I think it will stay.

 

Adding to what you suggested, I really want a mod like this:

• Caught
• Stripped
• Guard forces Dragonborn to assume a very compromising pose... I attached some poses that come to mind for this...
• Bassed on bounty, guard decides how long DB will stay in pose, and how many 'interactions' from pasing NPCs she will have
• Interactions can be spanks, oral, or full sex (what is allowed is possibly also decided by bounty amount)
• Once done, she is free to go, bounty cleared, no cell transfers, no DD, nothing like that.

Side note; I wish there was a mod where guards or whoever forces DB to strip, don't steal her stuff, but just throw it all over the ground, and they force her to crawl to pick it up... but I know with Skyrim physics, that would never work, lol

 

Side note 2: Is there a name for the pose the girl in the pink glasses is in? I love the idea of DB being in that pose, and NPCs walking up and casually dipping their cocks in until they cum inside her and walk away like no biggie... I need help lol.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

 

Anyway I know you sadly don't make ESV mods anymore, just wanted to share, lol. If we could get Baka, Anub, Billy or someone to make the animations and idles to do what I explained above and someone actually made that mod, ESV would be an even more magical place

 

[Evil1999]

My player gets stuck in the loop of animation once it is caught by vigilantes, it does not seem to get over.