falney Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 So.... I had been playing with a very dated set of mods and wanted to update (2013 mods). While looking at updates I saw this "new" mod management tool, mod organizer 2.1 and since it was supposedly better than NMM, I thought I would give it a go. So I uninstalled skyrim, deleted the folder from my steam directory, reinstalled Skyrim so I had a clean data folder and started at it with MO. An hour of hair pulling later I cleared out the mods, watched tutorials on how actually to use MO and started over. But I am still having issues. I have been trying to debug it my self on and off for 2 days and about 8 hours of working on it. All to play a game I have completed about 30 times. After manually shuffling things around I could get in game but Animations would not work as though FNIS didn't work or was installed wrong. I then found out I was using FNIS wrong through MO and did it right, once I activated the empty mod I created for the overwrite files, the game stopped working. The most obscure part though was it would continue not to work until I completed the following Deactivate FNIS Overwrite Deactivate JContainer Run LOOT Activate JContainer Run LOOT After these steps, the game would load again and as before, animations were frozen as though FNIS was not run/installed incorrectly Not sure why JContainer was doing this. Obscure. Here is the order I did things and I will post mod lists/orders after. Downloaded mods and installed them through MO, making sure to get all dependencies and their dependencies installed first before installing them (TO make sure I had everything) Run LOOT - A-OK Run Wrye Bashpatch Run FNIS Activate FNIS Overwrite mod Launch Game. The game launches but doesn't make it to the TES logo loading screen, just a black screen which is why I believe it is a mod load order issue. I am at a loss. I am hoping it is just a compatibility issue or something. I cant help but think the FNIS patch is jumping in higher up the load order than FNIS and causing an issue, but it wouldn't explain the issue with JContainer from what I can tell. At this point I am tempted to go back to NMM. Mod List (from MO loadorder.txt) # This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer. Skyrim.esm Update.esm Dawnguard.esm HearthFires.esm Dragonborn.esm Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp SexLab.esm SexLabAroused.esm Devious Devices - Assets.esm Devious Devices - Integration.esm Devious Devices - Expansion.esm ZaZAnimationPack.esm daymoyl.esm ApachiiHair.esm DeviousFramework.esm CreatureFramework.esm RaceCompatibility.esm KKSDrBWeightFix.esp Convenient Horses.esp SkyUI.esp XPMSE.esp RaceMenu.esp RaceMenuPlugin.esp RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp SOSRaceMenu.esp Futa equippable.esp xazPrisonOverhaulPatched.esp hydra_slavegirls.esp zThingsInDark.esp Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp Joy of Perspective.esp Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp SexLab-Stories.esp SexLabNudeCreatures.esp SexLabNudeCreaturesDB.esp SexLabNudeCreaturesDG.esp HentaiCreatures.esp SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp Deviously Cursed Loot.esp SimpleSlavery.esp Devious Cidhna.esp UIExtensions.esp DfwSupport.esp pchs_loansharks.esp SL_Kidnapped_Redux.esp MoreNastyCritters.esp DeviousFollowers.esp SexLab-StoriesDevious.esp Deviously Enslaved.esp SLAnimLoader.esp SlaveTats.esp LunariRace.esp DHuntress.esp FlameAtronachArmor.esp KKFur.esp Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn.esp Bashed Patch, 0.esp FNIS.esp FullBootForKKSA.esp KKSDGWeightSliderFix.esp Mod list (From MO modlist.txt) # This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer. +Bashed Patch Default +FINIS Patch +Killer Keos Skimpy CBBE V2-V3 Armor Replacer -Work In Progress- by Killer Keo +Lunari Race V1.70 +JContainers +RaceCompatibility with fixes +Things in the Dark +SlaveTats-zoo +SlaveTats-brat +SlaveTats-anal +SlaveTats +SLStoriesDevious084 +SLStories084 +Devious Followers +MoreNastyCritters9 0 +Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.15.0) +SL Kidnapped Redux +UIExtensions +Loansharks +SLAnimLoader +2 06 DfwSupport 170328 +2 06 DeviousFramework 170328 +Deviously Cursed Loot +xazPrisonOverhaul +SkoomaWhore1 +HDT Physics Extensions +hydra slavegirls827 textures +hydra slavegirls827 main +Simple Slavery Plus +ApachiiSkyHair +ShowRaceMenu Precache Killer +Devious Cidna +ZazAnimationPackV7 +Blood and Silver - Cidhna Mine Expanded +Alternate Start - Live Another Life +Death Alternative - Your Money or Your Life +Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice +Devious Devices Expansion +Devious Devices Assets +Devious Devices Integration +SexLabAroused V28b +SexLabFramework v162 FULL +Fu +Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch +Remodeled Armor for CBBE Bodyslide HDT +BodySlide and Outfit Studio +RaceMenu +The Joy of Perspective +FNIS Creature Pack +FNIS Behavior +XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended +NetImmerse Override +SkyUI +Convenient Horses +True beauty for Dibella (Statue) *DLC: Dawnguard *DLC: Dragonborn *DLC: HearthFires *Unmanaged: Bashed Patch, 0 = Bashed Patch, 0.esp ==============================# {{CONTENTS=1}} = Overview === Date/Time * 13/06/2018 18:24:04 * Elapsed Time: 0:01:58.911 === Active Mods * 00 Skyrim.esm * 01 Update.esm * 02 Dawnguard.esm * 03 HearthFires.esm * 04 Dragonborn.esm * 05 Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [Version 3.0.13a] * 06 SexLab.esm [Version 1.62] * 07 SexLabAroused.esm [Version 2.8] * 08 Devious Devices - Assets.esm [Version 2.8.3] * 09 Devious Devices - Integration.esm * 0A Devious Devices - Expansion.esm * 0B ZaZAnimationPack.esm * 0C daymoyl.esm * 0D ApachiiHair.esm * 0E DeviousFramework.esm * 0F CreatureFramework.esm [Version 1.0.0] * 10 RaceCompatibility.esm * 11 Convenient Horses.esp * 12 SkyUI.esp * 13 XPMSE.esp * 14 RaceMenu.esp * 15 RaceMenuPlugin.esp * 16 RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp * 17 SOSRaceMenu.esp * 18 Futa equippable.esp * 19 xazPrisonOverhaulPatched.esp [Version No.] * 1A hydra_slavegirls.esp * 1B zThingsInDark.esp * 1C Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp * 1D Joy of Perspective.esp * 1E Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp * 1F Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp * 20 Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp * 21 SexLab-Stories.esp * 22 SexLabNudeCreatures.esp * 23 SexLabNudeCreaturesDB.esp * 24 SexLabNudeCreaturesDG.esp * 25 HentaiCreatures.esp * 26 SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * 27 Deviously Cursed Loot.esp * 28 SimpleSlavery.esp * 29 Devious Cidhna.esp * 2A UIExtensions.esp * 2B DfwSupport.esp * 2C pchs_loansharks.esp * 2D SL_Kidnapped_Redux.esp * 2E MoreNastyCritters.esp * 2F DeviousFollowers.esp [Version 1.56] * 30 SexLab-StoriesDevious.esp * 31 Deviously Enslaved.esp * 32 SLAnimLoader.esp * 33 SlaveTats.esp * 34 LunariRace.esp * 35 DHuntress.esp * 36 FlameAtronachArmor.esp * ++ FullBootForKKSA.esp * 37 KKFur.esp * ++ KKSDGWeightSliderFix.esp * ++ KKSDrBWeightFix.esp * 38 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp [Version 3.1.7] * 39 Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn.esp = Import Cells === Source Mods * Update.esm * Dawnguard.esm * HearthFires.esm * Dragonborn.esm * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp * Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp Cells/Worlds Patched * Skyrim.esm: 102 * Dragonborn.esm: 1 = Import Graphics === Source Mods * Dawnguard.esm * HearthFires.esm * Dragonborn.esm * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp === Modified Records * Modified ARMA Records: 46 * Modified ARMO Records: 3 = Import Inventory === Source Mods * Dawnguard.esm * HearthFires.esm * Dragonborn.esm * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp Inventories Changed: 4 * Skyrim.esm: 4 = Import Names === Source Mods/Files * Update.esm * Dawnguard.esm * Dragonborn.esm * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp * Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp === Renamed Items * Modified LCTN Records: 1 * Modified NPC_ Records: 2 = Import Sounds === Source Mods * HearthFires.esm * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp === Modified Records * Modified ARMA Records: 15 = Import Stats === Source Mods/Files * Update.esm * Dawnguard.esm * Dragonborn.esm * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp === Imported Stats * Armors: 1 * Skyrim.esm: 1 * Weapons: 1215 * Dawnguard.esm: 100 * Dragonborn.esm: 677 * HearthFires.esm: 1 * Skyrim.esm: 437 = Tweak Settings * Crime: Alarm Distance: 1000 * Timescale set to: 12.00 = Leveled Lists === Delevelers/Relevelers * Update.esm [AD] * Dawnguard.esm [ADR] * Dragonborn.esm [AR] * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] === Merged Item Lists * ClothesFarm * Update.esm [AD] * LItemPotionRestoreHealth * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LItemPotionRestoreMagicka * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LItemPotionRestoreStamina * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LootBanditChestPotions15 * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LootCWImperialsChestPotions25 * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LootCWSonsChestPotions25 * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LootDwarvenChestPotions15 * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LootForswornChestPotions15 * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp * LootVampireChestPotions15 * Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [ADR] * SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp === Empty Item Sublists * LItemEnchCircletEnchanting * LItemEnchRingAlchemy * LItemEnchRingEnchanting * LItemNecromancerRobesEnchanting * LItemPoisonDrainAllSkills * LItemPoisonDrainAllSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainArmorSkills * LItemPoisonDrainArmorSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainBlock * LItemPoisonDrainBlockBest * LItemPoisonDrainCombatSkills * LItemPoisonDrainCombatSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainConjuration * LItemPoisonDrainConjurationBest * LItemPoisonDrainDestruction * LItemPoisonDrainDestructionBest * LItemPoisonDrainMagicSkills * LItemPoisonDrainMagicSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainMarksman * LItemPoisonDrainMarksmanBest * LItemPoisonDrainMeleeSkills * LItemPoisonDrainMeleeSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainRestoration * LItemPoisonDrainRestorationBest * LItemWarlockRobesEnchanting === Empty Item Sublists Removed * LItemApothecaryPoisonAll75 * LItemDrainMagicSkills * LItemEnchCircletAll * LItemEnchCircletAll25 * LItemEnchCircletAll75 * LItemEnchRingSkillMagic * LItemEnchRingSkillStealth * LItemPoisonAll * LItemPoisonAllBest * LItemPoisonDrainAllSkills * LItemPoisonDrainAllSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainCombatSkills * LItemPoisonDrainCombatSkillsBest * LItemPoisonDrainMagicSkills * LItemPoisonDrainMagicSkillsBest * LootBanditChestPotions100 * LootBanditChestPotions15 * LootCWImperialsChestPotions100 * LootCWImperialsChestPotions25 * LootCWSonsChestPotions100 * LootCWSonsChestPotions25 * LootDwarvenChestPotions15 * LootDwavenChestPotions100 * LootEnchNecromancerRobes25 * LootEnchWarlockRobes25 * LootForswornChestPotions100 * LootForswornChestPotions15 * LootForswornPotions10 * LootHagravenChestPotions100 * LootHagravenChestPotions25 * LootVampireChestPotions100 * LootVampireChestPotions15 * LootWerewolfChestPotions100 * LootWerewolfChestPotions25 * TGRewardPoisonAllBest {{CSS:wtxt_sand_small.css}}
Grey Cloud Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 If you haven't already do these: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/101344-crash-at-starting-new-game-or-new-save-game/?do=findComment&comment=2276716 I don't use MO myself but hopefully someone who does will jump in.
falney Posted June 13, 2018 Author Posted June 13, 2018 I am looking at that now, not sure if it applies directly to my issue as I am not 100% sure on what it is/does or how it does it does. Fingers crossed that it helps. Also, without the sex mods active it is fine. I have step by step installed mods and their dependencies 2-3 times during my own debugging and while I get through all non-sex mod oriented stuff perfectly fine, I will; Install Sexlab + dependencies, Fine Devious integration, assets, expansion, Fine. Hiccoughs start to appear when I start adding extras like the Devious followers (Was causing a lot of problems until I manually shuffled the load order a little, which then made other stuff do weird things) Things in the Dark also threw tantrums at being low in the load order while causing other issues when placed further up.
falney Posted June 14, 2018 Author Posted June 14, 2018 Well. I am still having issues. I have gone back to square one now and I am going to set everything up from scratch following those guides. If I still cant get it to work, I will go back to NMM. I removed everything, ran FNIS and animations were still frozen. I am 100% it is user error since other people use it perfectly fine, but I want to play Skyrim because I think it is fun. I don't how ever find sorting this out to be fun
Grey Cloud Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 21 hours ago, falney said: Hiccoughs start to appear when I start adding extras like the Devious followers If so, then try asking on the relevant support thread. Also, double-check you haven't downloaded any SE mods by mistake.
Uncle64 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Start by taking your car and drive over this old and obsolete mod. +MoreNastyCritters9 0 You have several errors in your left side. Your bashed patch should not be inside your DATA folder. If you have one placed there by mistake delete it. It should reside in your profile overwrite folder, there you also have Fnis and skse output.
Nazzzgul666 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 It might be worth mentioning that MO 2 is the 64 bit version - and left quite buggy by it's original creator. As far as i've read some guys do a good job in developing it further, but i assume their priority is still 64 Bit support (SE version, FO4,...). If you just want to play Oldrim (or be on the save side), i'd recommend MO 1.3.11 instead, that is the latest version for 32 bit games like Oldrim. I never tried MO2 honestly so i can't say much about the current differences, but i could imagine that not every video showing how to do things for MO 1 is still exactly the same for MO 2. If you don't want to switch, at least keep that in mind.
Uncle64 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Nazzzgul666 latest MO1 have version 1.3.14 You download it at the same place as you download MO2 in SkyrimSE section in Nexus.
falney Posted June 14, 2018 Author Posted June 14, 2018 I will go and try MO 1 before going back to NMM then. Also not really caring about the extra critters thing. Added it since it was something listed on another mod I installed (Think it was recommended, not required) I have beast stuff turned off in sex lab so I don't think it will effect me. Also I finished going through all the "STEP" setup this evening and it just made the thing worse. Now the game won't even launch through MO. It will launch SKSE then SKSE will finish running and nothing will happen, Skyrim terminates and MO unlocks. Well, I am going to start over with the old MO and just skip on the whole STEP thing. I don't like that it requires an ENB. I have never seen an ENB preset that I personally feel adds to my experience, only takes from it. Also I am using Oldrim. I do have SE but I haven't even installed it. I am not entirely sure on the compatibility of mods between the two and whether everything I want will be available on SE. So I am just sticking with Oldrim
Grey Cloud Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 S.T.E.P. is one of the best guides out there and recommended by lots of people. It does not require an ENB as you would realise if you had read the guide properly. Perhaps the fault lies with you and you need to do some serious reading (or watching) about Skyrim and how to mod it.
Sladen2019 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 If your left pane order is really bad, the game will be buggy or not start. There is a triangle in the upper right that flashes red when stuff like the left pane is incorrect. You can click on that red triangle and it will help you fix the order for the left pane. It may need to be done many times. You need to have a correct left pane and that is something you and MO itself need to straighten out. Loot will not fix your left pane for you. You don't need to follow every step in guides, be it in Step or any other guide. I am guessing by ENB, the Step guide is referring to using ENBoost, which is just memory fixes. It isnt full blown ENB with graphics. About FNIS and SKSE in MO. They don't have to be installed the way Gopher says in his video. They can be installed manually and that way they will work across all profiles. The same for Crash Fixes and ENBoost. Gopher says to do it the way he does in case you want a 100% clean install directory. The FNIS Output would still have to be made for each profile.
Grey Cloud Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 "You don't need to follow every step in guides, be it in Step or any other guide." Not if you know what you are doing and know enough to make the judgement. Someone who has fucked up practically every step (no pun intended) is IMO better off following carefully. "I am guessing by ENB, the Step guide is referring to using ENBoost, which is just memory fixes. It isnt full blown ENB with graphics." Correct.
falney Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 21 hours ago, Grey Cloud said: S.T.E.P. is one of the best guides out there and recommended by lots of people. It does not require an ENB as you would realise if you had read the guide properly. Perhaps the fault lies with you and you need to do some serious reading (or watching) about Skyrim and how to mod it. If you read the S.T.E.P instructions. One of the pre-requisits (http://forum.step-project.com/topic/9370-step-compilation/) on both the Core and the Extended install is Vividian Extended weathers. If you go to its nexus page, it has ENB (http://enbdev.com/) in its requirements. So, please don't talk to me like I am stupid. Also I did every step in the guide to installing it. (The reading version of the guide, not the video one) and Skyrim it self worked but I was still having the animation issue I was having before, so I go back to my earlier comment of it most likely being user error on my part. I also went back to MO 1.3.11 and started installing things on there but ended up getting frustrated with it after having messed up something with the FNIS installation. I will need to look up guides on it again because I am most likely missing a step but when creating a mod for the overwrite files for FNIS it is creating a tree, sticking the overwrite mod in it, adding FNIS to it automatically, and then, any other mods I install AFTER MO doing this, also install into that tree. I am just having very little luck. I did actually consider going back to NMM but then I remembered the mess that manager causes in your data folder and just felt demoralized. Not sure skyrim is worth this agro xD
Grey Cloud Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, falney said: If you read the S.T.E.P instructions. One of the pre-requisits (http://forum.step-project.com/topic/9370-step-compilation/) on both the Core and the Extended install is Vividian Extended weathers. If you go to its nexus page, it has ENB (http://enbdev.com/) in its requirements. So, please don't talk to me like I am stupid. Okay. I'll take the blame for not being more specific when I said 'install the game' as per S.T.E.P. What I actually meant was the game and the various tools (LOOT, TesVEdit etc) required for modding it. What mods you use is your business not S.T.E.Ps. But, ENBoost is not an ENB per se, it is a memory allocation tool. It and Crash Fixes are two of the most important tools out there for minimising CTDs. None of the above will necessarily solve your problem but it will remove one possible (probable?) complication. In other words, get your game set up correctly and as stable as is possible with Skyrim; get MO, or NMM, set up properly and then start adding mods and and addressing your animation problems. As I've said, I don't use MO so I can't help you there. Everyone who has modded Skyrim knows what a pain in the arse it can be and most of us have done stupid things or missed something really obvious or simple. Hang in there.
Uncle64 Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Enb program is some you should install, you dont need any preset at all. You can use Purety instead, it is lighter and more smooth. If you have merged to MO you should stay whit it, perhaps check some of Gophers youtubes. And if you are insecure about anything, ask here or at Steam we can help you.
falney Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said: Okay. I'll take the blame for not being more specific when I said 'install the game' as per S.T.E.P. What I actually meant was the game and the various tools (LOOT, TesVEdit etc) required for modding it. What mods you use is your business not S.T.E.Ps. But, ENBoost is not an ENB per se, it is a memory allocation tool. It and Crash Fixes are two of the most important tools out there for minimising CTDs. None of the above will necessarily solve your problem but it will remove one possible (probable?) complication. In other words, get your game set up correctly and as stable as is possible with Skyrim; get MO, or NMM, set up properly and then start adding mods and and addressing your animation problems. As I've said, I don't use MO so I can't help you there. Everyone who has modded Skyrim knows what a pain in the arse it can be and most of us have done stupid things or missed something really obvious or simple. Hang in there. Ok, so just go through step one of the S.T.E.P.S guide? i.e. the pre-installation guide? Also, just stick FNIS, BodySlide, Wrye etc into the data folder then run them through MO but everything else install via MO? I am working on a clean install using MO 1.3.11 (I think that was the latest MO pre MO2.0) Thanks
Grey Cloud Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, falney said: Ok, so just go through step one of the S.T.E.P.S guide? i.e. the pre-installation guide? Up to and including 1.E.2. Display Calibration. You can go through their recommended mods and install any you fancy if you so wish. One mod I would install at this stage would be Alternate Start, it could save you a lot of time later if you have to keep trying new games. I don't use Wrye so I might be wrong here but I wouldn't bother making a patch until the very end.
Uncle64 Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 1.3.11 was the old MO1, in the same page you can download MO2 for SSE you can download MO1 1.3.14. Do that. You will have issues whit Nexus if you dont update.
Sladen2019 Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 2 hours ago, falney said: Ok, so just go through step one of the S.T.E.P.S guide? i.e. the pre-installation guide? Also, just stick FNIS, BodySlide, Wrye etc into the data folder then run them through MO but everything else install via MO? I am working on a clean install using MO 1.3.11 (I think that was the latest MO pre MO2.0) Thanks You can install FNIS and BodySlide and Wrye Bash and SKSE and Crash Fixes and ENBoost manually and then point MO to them. Make sure to set the executables to run as Admin for all that have exes, including MO itself. For FNIS and BodySlide, and Wrye Bash, you will still need to run them from within MO and create a mod from the stuff it puts in the overwrite. MO is really easy to use and once learned and used right, you wont want to ever use NMM again. The biggest issues people seem to have is the left pane and lack of understanding how the overwrite folder works. Just keep your left pane decently ordered and make sure stuff isnt in the overwrite and you'll be ok. Loot will do a good job on the right pane but it isnt perfect, so take a good luck at what it does and if you see anything suspicious, look it up on the mods own pages for load order info.That goes for any method of management. If for some reason you still want to get rid of MO in the future, don't go back to NMM. Use Vortex as its shaping up nicely seemingly and would be more future proof. There are tutorials on it at Youtube already by Gopher.
falney Posted June 17, 2018 Author Posted June 17, 2018 Ok. thanks for all the help. Gonna start working on trying to get it all running again tonight (Weekends are busy)
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