12 minutes ago, Tirloque said:

That would explain why then you consider Lawful good as evil characters in fact. But that is in fact due to you finding a way to exploit RPG adjusting alignment through numerical values. What's important in D&D's original alignment system is what a character has in her/his heart. If a character is in fact abusing a system to allow him/her to commit evil deeds while being ununished, then it's that deep inside he/she is in fact rather evil indeed.

 

But that's not the alignment that is evil, it's just that you found a way to fool a game's system.

 

And that makes the story more complex and unpredictable. And thus creates the hype among the readers.

 

Gwynolda was always somewhat narrow in her view on heresy and evil, but in her heart she feels herself lawful good, but her actions and behavior def closer to lawful netural, now maybe a bit darker shade of neutral, since she walking a dangerous path.

I mean this chapter already has consequences, we not even sure what Gauis would think if she go this type of decisions.

Indeed, What Gwynolda gonna do in the Temple after showcasing her methods? What Gauis actually up? Whats the deal with Eliza? How Maven plans to deal with this situation? Raises questions, and rather unpredictable what comes next. ?

3 hours ago, Resdayn said:

Gwynolda was always somewhat narrow in her view on heresy and evil, but in her heart she feels herself lawful good, but her actions and behavior def closer to lawful netural, now maybe a bit darker shade of neutral, since she walking a dangerous path.

 

I mean this chapter already has consequences, we not even sure what Gauis would think if she go this type of decisions.

 

Indeed, What Gwynolda gonna do in the Temple after showcasing her methods? What Gauis actually up? Whats the deal with Eliza? How Maven plans to deal with this situation? Raises questions, and rather unpredictable what comes next. ?

> Gwynolda is the best when she walks around naked and Trilog use Malicija to complain for he is jelous he can't have her

8 hours ago, EvalovesEP said:

> Gwynolda is the best when she walks around naked and Trilog use Malicija to complain for he is jelous he can't have her

Indeed. When I ask Malicija to walk around naked just like that, she refuses. Rumor has it that Resdayn had the opposite problem with Gwynolda.

Woah, Gwynolda is brutal now! I could tell she had changed, but not to this amount. I was getting chills. Great job, Res!

18 minutes ago, Collygon said:

Woah, Gwynolda is brutal now! I could tell she had changed, but not to this amount. I was getting chills. Great job, Res!

Thank you ❤️

Ohh she did change, quite a bit, and I am happy to hear it managed give chills, thats pretty awesome ?

Gwynolda has really lost it now ?

As to the morality/alignment discussion: If you're using a D&D alignment system then that comes along with the absolute existence of objective morality down to the point that each alignment even has its own plane of existence that you can wander on into and visit. D&D alignment is 100% absolute and is never down to justifying your actions or "feeling like you're doing the right thing". Evil is evil, good is good and that's it and if you don't believe it you can go visit the corresponding plane and see for yourself.

I agree with @Tirloque that the notion of killing an evil guy to make up for killing a good guy is just silly Fallout 3 video game "morality" and really has no more place in a nuanced view of good vs evil (such as one you'd find in a book, movie, story or good pen and paper RPG campaign) than the idea that collecting 100 coins will give you an extra guy. Now that doesn't mean that people would know their alignment any more than they would know their dexterity score, plenty of people might THINK they are lawful good but that doesn't make it true. In this chapter Gwynolda is definitely threading the gap between LN and LE IMO (though that's just looking at the surface, it also seems to me that beneath this sudden change in her personality s some degree of using her new position and power to cover up or "self medicate" her past emotional pain which would tend to shift her actions more towards a NE or very questionable true N since her motivation would be purely self serving). 

You seem to be looking at LG through a very jaded lens. LG is not following the rules to the letter with no regard for compassion or humanity, that is textbook LN, the cliched old trope of executing the hungry thief who steals bread to feed his family. LG is the guy who does the right thing no matter the cost, it is the guy who finds a way to save the unsavable no matter the personal sacrifice, who finds a way to bring the "heretic" back to the light. This speech is the essence of Lawful Good (and why Captain America will forever be Marvel's best character (fight me):

Lawful Good does no follow orders blindly or kill for no reason because it is what the system demands. Chaotic Good will fight to destroy that corrupt system, Neutral Good will ignore it and do the right thing anyway, Lawful Good will change it, he will fix it no matter what it takes. He is not good because the law tells him to be, he is good even if it tells him not to be. 

28 minutes ago, SpyVsPie said:

Gwynolda has really lost it now ?

 

She did a bit.

28 minutes ago, SpyVsPie said:

 

As to the morality/alignment discussion: If you're using a D&D alignment system then that comes along with the absolute existence of objective morality down to the point that each alignment even has its own plane of existence that you can wander on into and visit. D&D alignment is 100% absolute and is never down to justifying your actions or "feeling like you're doing the right thing". Evil is evil, good is good and that's it and if you don't believe it you can go visit the corresponding plane and see for yourself.

 

I agree with @Tirloque that the notion of killing an evil guy to make up for killing a good guy is just silly Fallout 3 video game "morality" and really has no more place in a nuanced view of good vs evil (such as one you'd find in a book, movie, story or good pen and paper RPG campaign) than the idea that collecting 100 coins will give you an extra guy. Now that doesn't mean that people would know their alignment any more than they would know their dexterity score, plenty of people might THINK they are lawful good but that doesn't make it true. In this chapter Gwynolda is definitely threading the gap between LN and LE IMO (though that's just looking at the surface, it also seems to me that beneath this sudden change in her personality s some degree of using her new position and power to cover up or "self medicate" her past emotional pain which would tend to shift her actions more towards a NE or very questionable true N since her motivation would be purely self serving). 

 

You seem to be looking at LG through a very jaded lens. LG is not following the rules to the letter with no regard for compassion or humanity, that is textbook LN, the cliched old trope of executing the hungry thief who steals bread to feed his family. LG is the guy who does the right thing no matter the cost, it is the guy who finds a way to save the unsavable no matter the personal sacrifice, who finds a way to bring the "heretic" back to the light. This speech is the essence of Lawful Good (and why Captain America will forever be Marvel's best character (fight me):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

   

Lawful Good does no follow orders blindly or kill for no reason because it is what the system demands. Chaotic Good will fight to destroy that corrupt system, Neutral Good will ignore it and do the right thing anyway, Lawful Good will change it, he will fix it no matter what it takes. He is not good because the law tells him to be, he is good even if it tells him not to be. 

 

Gwynolda is actually lawful neutral character, thats what is in her sheet, she just feel herself lawful good. ?

I just joke around with lawful good, since in crpg-s I managed to play around and play murder hobo while keeping the aligment ?, later rpg games which use the aligment system some reason put the genocide option to lawful good xD, while evil aligments not had such choice.

In this scenario she getting closer in the darker shade-s of grey and evil, if she not be careful, she def can get end up lawful evil and neutral evil, but thats the stake here. ?

Does she end up self realise her mistakes and attitude or end up a fallen hero?

But again system is just some minor help to align my character's morality and give an idea of it, I not really write black and white morality wise.

My personal Marvel Favorite is Dr Doom thought.

1 hour ago, SpyVsPie said:

 Evil is evil, good is good and that's it and if you don't believe it you can go visit the corresponding plane and see for yourself.

 

I agree with @Tirloque that the notion of killing an evil guy to make up for killing a good guy is just silly Fallout 3 video game "morality" and really has no more place in a nuanced view of good vs evil (such as one you'd find in a book, movie, story or good pen and paper RPG campaign) than the idea that collecting 100 coins will give you an extra guy. Now that doesn't mean that people would know their alignment any more than they would know their dexterity score, plenty of people might THINK they are lawful good but that doesn't make it true. In this chapter Gwynolda is definitely threading the gap between LN and LE IMO (though that's just looking at the surface, it also seems to me that beneath this sudden change in her personality s some degree of using her new position and power to cover up or "self medicate" her past emotional pain which would tend to shift her actions more towards a NE or very questionable true N since her motivation would be purely self serving). 

 

You seem to be looking at LG through a very jaded lens. LG is not following the rules to the letter with no regard for compassion or humanity, that is textbook LN, the cliched old trope of executing the hungry thief who steals bread to feed his family. LG is the guy who does the right thing no matter the cost, it is the guy who finds a way to save the unsavable no matter the personal sacrifice, who finds a way to bring the "heretic" back to the light. This speech is the essence of Lawful Good (and why Captain America will forever be Marvel's best character (fight me):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

   

Lawful Good does no follow orders blindly or kill for no reason because it is what the system demands. Chaotic Good will fight to destroy that corrupt system, Neutral Good will ignore it and do the right thing anyway, Lawful Good will change it, he will fix it no matter what it takes. He is not good because the law tells him to be, he is good even if it tells him not to be.

I couldn't agree more on that.

37 minutes ago, Resdayn said:

I just joke around with lawful good, since in crpg-s I managed to play around and play murder hobo while keeping the aligment ?, later rpg games which use the aligment system some reason put the genocide option to lawful good xD, while evil aligments not had such choice.

As we said before, you thought that because you found a way to take advantage of the leniency of a videogame numerical vision of moral choices : +2 and -2 makes +0. And if lawful good is between +15 and +5, and chaotic bad only at -15, you could indeed do more evil actions as a lawful good character than a good actions as a chaotic bad character before the system adjusts your alignment. But that's just the limits of having a not really intelligent computer keeping track of it.

Alignment refers to what's a character is deep down inside, and Captain America speech is indeed a good insight on what a Lawful good character is from that point of view. 'cause ultimately, if he had to choose between a lawful but wrong/bad/evil action, and a good/right/compassionate action, he would choose the "good" one, and try to make the system right afterwards.

But I think you understood all this already, as is implied on your next quote :

48 minutes ago, Resdayn said:

In this scenario she getting closer in the darker shade-s of grey and evil, if she not be careful, she def can get end up lawful evil and neutral evil, but thats the stake here. ?

 

Does she end up self realise her mistakes and attitude or end up a fallen hero?

My associate thinks she needs expert advice about it.

Still, having the possibility of her becoming a fallen hero makes things so much more interesting that I'm almost jealous. I'm not featuring enough alignments in my own stories.

39 minutes ago, Tirloque said:

Alignment refers to what's a character is deep down inside, and Captain America speech is indeed a good insight on what a Lawful good character is from that point of view. 'cause ultimately, if he had to choose between a lawful but wrong/bad/evil action, and a good/right/compassionate action, he would choose the "good" one, and try to make the system right afterwards.

 

But I think you understood all this already, as is implied on your next quote :

My associate thinks she needs expert advice about it.

 

Still, having the possibility of her becoming a fallen hero makes things so much more interesting that I'm almost jealous. I'm not featuring enough alignments in my own stories.

 

I am aware of that, not worry ?

Most of the characters you feature, have not really that much chance to change aligment, I can't see Malicia goes total evil. ?

55 minutes ago, Resdayn said:

I am aware of that, not worry ?

 

Most of the characters you feature, have not really that much chance to change aligment, I can't see Malicia goes total evil. ?

Ohhh, extreme circumstances can lead to change. Though for most of those you know their alignment are deeply ingrained in their minds. But there should be more greyish characters around in some time.

Malicia : « That's what you think. But next year, I'm gonna go to lady Trinn's, and if people doesn't agree with me I'll stab them in the hand, yes.  »