Failure Mode Effects Analysis in Skyrim (FMEA)

[worik]

  I can't resist .... Spoiler tags! They are like a chest with 80% probable DCL generated devious devices inside.. unlocked in the dungeon ...

*reads spoiler*

.

...

.....

I will keep that in my mind and post it when I stumble upon some good ideas.

[jfraser]

 

Thank you for the update! ​I can't imagine alchemy anymore without smoking explosions

Just to make sure for the new version: it now shows some cell and worldspace edits with "..something-marker-something.." From your changelog, I assume these are the remaining intended ones. Right?

Yes - they are there intentionally (Explanation below - but spoiler alert!)

 

 

Those are the teleport destination markers for when you are sucked into a dimensional vortex. If you can think of any other potentially interesting and non-game breaking destinations FMEA is designed to make it fairly straightforward for me to add them.

one possible place might be the simple slavery prison. Hehe.

 

Actually, since the player would show up still geared, I could try to make a dialogue scenario to demand to be released. Hmm...

[Bane Master]

 

 

Thank you for the update! ​I can't imagine alchemy anymore without smoking explosions

Just to make sure for the new version: it now shows some cell and worldspace edits with "..something-marker-something.." From your changelog, I assume these are the remaining intended ones. Right?

Yes - they are there intentionally (Explanation below - but spoiler alert!)

 

 

Those are the teleport destination markers for when you are sucked into a dimensional vortex. If you can think of any other potentially interesting and non-game breaking destinations FMEA is designed to make it fairly straightforward for me to add them.

one possible place might be the simple slavery prison. Hehe.

 

Actually, since the player would show up still geared, I could try to make a dialogue scenario to demand to be released. Hmm...

 

 

I like your thinking - let me know if you want to go ahead! 

  I can't resist .... Spoiler tags! They are like a chest with 80% probable DCL generated devious devices inside.. unlocked in the dungeon ...

*reads spoiler*

.

...

.....

I will keep that in my mind and post it when I stumble upon some good ideas.

 

Thanks

[worik]

Would you consider locations from other mods a valid destination, or only vanilla ones? Creating an immersive dialogues would probably not be easy, but not impossible.

If valid, where would you draw a line?

 

Three examples:

 

 

#1 INIGO - a common and widespread mod, so if the player has this mod, Langleys hut could be a TP destination.

#2 SLEN - a widerspread LL-only mod - in this case Dibella's sanctuary from the mod could be a TP destination - an immersive story could be refering to your SL stats

#3 Vanilla-only - Dibellas Temple in Markrath - storywise the same as #2 since we're here at LL  (not sure if it's already included in the mod )

 

 

[Bane Master]

Would you consider locations from other mods a valid destination, or only vanilla ones? Creating an immersive dialogues would probably not be easy, but not impossible.

If valid, where would you draw a line?

 

Three examples:

 

 

#1 INIGO - a common and widespread mod, so if the player has this mod, Langleys hut could be a TP destination.

#2 SLEN - a widerspread LL-only mod - in this case Dibella's sanctuary from the mod could be a TP destination - an immersive story could be refering to your SL stats

#3 Vanilla-only - Dibellas Temple in Markrath - storywise the same as #2 since we're here at LL  (not sure if it's already included in the mod )

 

 

 

I would consider other mods but would need to find a method to reliably add/remove them if the mod was available - I'll give it some thought

 

 

I hadn't thought about safe locations but adding a couple - and Dibella's Temple is a good example is definitely possible, particularly if the number of hazardous locations increases as well

 

[xtrange988]

Enjoying the mod so far but there's one thing that's driving me mad.

 

The effect duration is set to real time, no affliction last that long. I've been suffering from allergic reaction for 3 days. Even when I manage to craft a cure disease potion the damn sound effect doesn't stop and is driving me crazy.

 

No issue with the sleep effect, but the allergic... it's hurting my sanity. Any way to replace or deactivate the "burning" sound effect with something more realistic or less annoying.

 

 

[Bane Master]

Enjoying the mod so far but there's one thing that's driving me mad.

 

The effect duration is set to real time, no affliction last that long. I've been suffering from allergic reaction for 3 days. Even when I manage to craft a cure disease potion the damn sound effect doesn't stop and is driving me crazy.

 

No issue with the sleep effect, but the allergic... it's hurting my sanity. Any way to replace or deactivate the "burning" sound effect with something more realistic or less annoying.

Hmmm - the sound should have stopped when the visual effect of the spell did - it's just spell hit fx.

 

Regarding duration it gets refreshed if you get affected again before it wears off, the duration is set to game time not real time

 

Can you go and trigger it again and then post a log of the event please?

[xtrange988]

I quit the game for a while and came back, and the effect wasn't there. Still the game was running pretty wonky, not showing spell effects (sparks/frosbite/etc) and firing other sounds delayed in general until I disabled the ingredient plugin and went back to normal. The game was stable, 20 hours no crashes and no bloat.

 

I checked for compatibility issues in xEdit and it was clear.

 

 

I started again with another mod list and will try again tomorrow I hope. It's quite late 4am here so that's all for now.

 

[Bane Master]

I quit the game for a while and came back, and the effect wasn't there. Still the game was running pretty wonky, not showing spell effects (sparks/frosbite/etc) and firing other sounds delayed in general until I disabled the ingredient plugin and went back to normal. The game was stable, 20 hours no crashes and no bloat.

 

I checked for compatibility issues in xEdit and it was clear.

 

 

I started again with another mod list and will try again tomorrow I hope. It's quite late 4am here so that's all for now.

 

I think I may have an explanation for why the sound continues in some cases - I'm testing a potential fix and if all goes as expected should be able to release in the next day or so

 

 

Edit:  Fixed - see below 

[Bane Master]

FMEA Version 1.33 released

 

• Added: Repeated exposure whilst afflicted by a harvest effect will prolong the effect proportionate to the number of additional exposures
   
• Updated: Harvest SFx will now play on each exposure
   
• BugFix: Fixed a condition where Harvest SFx would play continuously

 

[xtrange988]

Great! just in time

 

 

 

[Heinz01]

I encountered an unexpected outcome

 

 

 

i tried to open a chest but failed and activated a gas trap. Then there was a blackout and my PC woke up in jail and the maria eden quest "slave in jail" started. Was this intended or was my PC only sent to jail and couldnt pay the bounty so ME kicked in? However nice surprise

 

[throwaway219]

On a lock that auto rearms when picked, and has tamper detection, is it impossible to ever open?  The alarm gong goes off the instant I start trying to pick it, every time I try.

[Bane Master]

On a lock that auto rearms when picked, and has tamper detection, is it impossible to ever open? The alarm gong goes off the instant I start trying to pick it, every time I try.

The first time you pick a lock it is assigned a difficulty. If your lockpickjng level is so far below the difficulty that you trip tamper detection as soon as you try the lock and rearm is on, then that will keep happening until you raise your lockpicking skill enough to not trigger the tamper and can then try to pick the lock before it triggers.

 

If the lock is vital to a quest or something and you have to do it now then turn off auto rearm- trip the trap, then pick the lock and after switch auto rearm back on.

 

[throwaway219]

 

On a lock that auto rearms when picked, and has tamper detection, is it impossible to ever open? The alarm gong goes off the instant I start trying to pick it, every time I try.

The first time you pick a lock it is assigned a difficulty. If your lockpickjng level is so far below the difficulty that you trip tamper detection as soon as you try the lock and rearm is on, then that will keep happening until you raise your lockpicking skill enough to not trigger the tamper and can then try to pick the lock before it triggers.

 

If the lock is vital to a quest or something and you have to do it now then turn off auto rearm- trip the trap, then pick the lock and after switch auto rearm back on.

 

 

 

 

Thanks - the lock in question was only an apprentice-level door, but my lockpicking skill was like 19 or so.  Level 3 new character

 

 

[Bane Master]

FMEA Version 1.34 released

 

• Bugfix: Alchemy critical failures will now occur at the correct frequency
  

[TechBaNe]

Some comments about this mod. For the most part I love the risk this adds to the most mundane of tasks in this game, especially considering that without mods like Requiem, things are almost so easy they're boring (now if only there was a mod that made the economy more difficult without stripping dungeons of all their loot so that I would have a reason to use prostitution mods).

 

My only real complaint is with the potions module. I like(d) to mass produce my potions. I go to an alchemy table and use up all of the ingredients at once while I'm in town, and make somewhere upwards of 20 potions/poisons at a time. I keep what looks useful and sell the rest. Before using that module, this would take maybe 5 minutes on the outside. But now that the mod kicks me out of the alchemy table between. every. potion! the same 20 concoctions now can take up to half an hour to make. That's 20 minutes I could have used getting into other types of naughty peril. I find that I don't use the table anymore and just sell all the ingredients. Opting for a trainer to increase my alchemy skill and buying recipes instead.

 

I seriously think this part needs a little rework because alchemy has just become tedious with that module active.

[jfraser]

Love this, as always! Couple of ideas: i'd like the allergies to be consistent - if i'm allergic to red flowers, i should always be, and vice versa. also, the allergy effects seem like they'd be more logical if they happened when you eat the ingredient, not when you pick them.

 

the other thing is a request for an mcm button to turn off any effects that happen to be going on at the time. a "clean up" option.

 

thanks.

[Bane Master]

Some comments about this mod. For the most part I love the risk this adds to the most mundane of tasks in this game, especially considering that without mods like Requiem, things are almost so easy they're boring (now if only there was a mod that made the economy more difficult without stripping dungeons of all their loot so that I would have a reason to use prostitution mods).

 

My only real complaint is with the potions module. I like(d) to mass produce my potions. I go to an alchemy table and use up all of the ingredients at once while I'm in town, and make somewhere upwards of 20 potions/poisons at a time. I keep what looks useful and sell the rest. Before using that module, this would take maybe 5 minutes on the outside. But now that the mod kicks me out of the alchemy table between. every. potion! the same 20 concoctions now can take up to half an hour to make. That's 20 minutes I could have used getting into other types of naughty peril. I find that I don't use the table anymore and just sell all the ingredients. Opting for a trainer to increase my alchemy skill and buying recipes instead.

 

I seriously think this part needs a little rework because alchemy has just become tedious with that module active.

 

You raise an interesting point - the balance between risk and repetition is always difficult.

 

Paying to be trained and avoiding the risk of experimenting is certainly the lowest risk approach and works well for those who  think there's too much easy money in Skyrim. An alternative approach is to tweak the settings to reduce the chances of being kicked out of the alchemy table. 

 

 

 

All the kickouts result from critical failures.

 

The "Unstable Mixture" failure is effectively just lights and smoke and assuming it's at default settings, right now it makes up 50% of your kickouts. You could set it to zero and also reduce the Critical failure factor to 0.25 - this would reduce the overall occurrence of kickouts by 50% whilst maintaining the same risk of serious bad stuff happening.

 

Alternatively (or in addition) you could increase the formulation experience modifier. If you set it to 10% (max) you will never fail a specific potion once you have successfully crafted it 7 times (assuming base Alchemy = 15).

 

Hopefully some combination of these will work for you - if not and you have any suggestions as to how to balance things better then let me know

 

 

[Bane Master]

Love this, as always! Couple of ideas: i'd like the allergies to be consistent - if i'm allergic to red flowers, i should always be, and vice versa. also, the allergy effects seem like they'd be more logical if they happened when you eat the ingredient, not when you pick them.

 

the other thing is a request for an mcm button to turn off any effects that happen to be going on at the time. a "clean up" option.

 

thanks.

 

 

Both good ideas! I'll take a look at how they could be implemented  

 

 

Although with regard to clean up - the wait key is your friend  

 

[TechBaNe]

 

snip

 

You raise an interesting point - the balance between risk and repetition is always difficult.

 

Paying to be trained and avoiding the risk of experimenting is certainly the lowest risk approach and works well for those who  think there's too much easy money in Skyrim. An alternative approach is to tweak the settings to reduce the chances of being kicked out of the alchemy table. 

 

 

 

All the kickouts result from critical failures.

 

The "Unstable Mixture" failure is effectively just lights and smoke and assuming it's at default settings, right now it makes up 50% of your kickouts. You could set it to zero and also reduce the Critical failure factor to 0.25 - this would reduce the overall occurrence of kickouts by 50% whilst maintaining the same risk of serious bad stuff happening.

 

Alternatively (or in addition) you could increase the formulation experience modifier. If you set it to 10% (max) you will never fail a specific potion once you have successfully crafted it 7 times (assuming base Alchemy = 15).

 

Hopefully some combination of these will work for you - if not and you have any suggestions as to how to balance things better then let me know

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll test them out tonight and see if there's any combination of settings that work for me. I wasn't aware of the kickouts being limited to a specific set of results, as at the time I was playing a new character and nearly all of my potions were failing critically in the smoke and lights fashion (which is probably because I was just experimenting with random ingredients at level 3, sans recipes). I actually hadn't triggered any of the other critical failures, which I assume was just bad RNG since I didn't play with any of the percentages.

 

If I think of any other ways to balance things, I'll let you know.

[jfraser]

 

Love this, as always! Couple of ideas: i'd like the allergies to be consistent - if i'm allergic to red flowers, i should always be, and vice versa. also, the allergy effects seem like they'd be more logical if they happened when you eat the ingredient, not when you pick them.

 

the other thing is a request for an mcm button to turn off any effects that happen to be going on at the time. a "clean up" option.

 

thanks.

Both good ideas! I'll take a look at how they could be implemented

 

 

Although with regard to clean up - the wait key is your friend

you're the best, as always.

 

The clean up function, in my mind, isn't about recovering. I just dislike screen effects. I like seeing what's going on. So I guess I should be more clear - I'd like a button that clears the visual effects but still keeps the negative impacts.

 

My personal preference (since you are, after all, making this mod only for me ) would be a brief screen effect just so I know something happened, but the screen then clears. Maybe a widget could appear to let me know that the effect is still active.

 

Of course, that's a bunch of extra work just to conform to my personal asthetics, so obviously none of this needs to happen.

[crayne]

I played your mod yesterday with alchemy and really like it, the effects are really hilarious. How i laughed after creating 30 potions at once and was hit by all effects at once (blinded, explosion, zapped).

 

With alchemy, i gather lots of ressources (or buy them) and create like 300-500 potions at once. So would it be possible to add a greater variety of failures? You already have fire and lightning, maybe add something for ice?

 

Regarding the disease, i noticed it's not a disadvantage while creating potions, so after being infected the first time, i left it alone and cured after creating all potions. So can you add different stages or different diseases, that get worse if the player does not cure them while mixing potions and is hit by the disease alchemy fail event? You might add an effect to the disease that reduces the alchemy skill, to motivate players to cure the disease as soon as possible?

[Bane Master]

I played your mod yesterday with alchemy and really like it, the effects are really hilarious. How i laughed after creating 30 potions at once and was hit by all effects at once (blinded, explosion, zapped).

 

With alchemy, i gather lots of ressources (or buy them) and create like 300-500 potions at once. So would it be possible to add a greater variety of failures? You already have fire and lightning, maybe add something for ice?

 

Regarding the disease, i noticed it's not a disadvantage while creating potions, so after being infected the first time, i left it alone and cured after creating all potions. So can you add different stages or different diseases, that get worse if the player does not cure them while mixing potions and is hit by the disease alchemy fail event? You might add an effect to the disease that reduces the alchemy skill, to motivate players to cure the disease as soon as possible?

 

 

Ice is certainly a possibility  

 

The issue with more intrusive effects is that some folks love them and some folks hate them so the problem is finding a good balance.

[throwaway219]

SL Eager NPCs has aphrodisiacs that might make a good failure effect.  They have varying strengths and different ones affect different nearby races.  I don't remember offhand if any of them also affect you.

 

 

I was using a Mortar and Pestle to craft standing around Whiterun and got this approximately 20 times in my Papyrus log after an alchemical shock that didn't result in abuse:

 

 

[08/06/2017 - 01:35:24PM] ERROR: Cannot call GetActorBase() on a None object, aborting function call

stack:

[fmea_EffectManager (CA004E08)].fmea_effectmanagerscript.PotentialAbusers() - "fmea_effectmanagerscript.psc" Line 884

[fmea_EffectManager (CA004E08)].fmea_effectmanagerscript.UnconsciousAbuse() - "fmea_effectmanagerscript.psc" Line 496

[fmea_EffectManager (CA004E08)].fmea_effectmanagerscript.Abused() - "fmea_effectmanagerscript.psc" Line 395

[fmea_EffectManager (CA004E08)].fmea_effectmanagerscript.UnconsciousVictim() - "fmea_effectmanagerscript.psc" Line 367

[fmea_EffectManager (CA004E08)].fmea_effectmanagerscript.AlchemicalShock() - "fmea_effectmanagerscript.psc" Line 325

[fmea_EffectManager (CA004E08)].fmea_effectmanagerscript.TriggerAlchemyEffect() - "fmea_effectmanagerscript.psc" Line 193

[fmea_Alchemy (CA00A43C)].fmea_alchemyscript.AlchemyFMEA() - "fmea_alchemyscript.psc" Line 37

[fmea_Alchemy (CA00A43C)].fmea_alchemyscript.EvaluateAlchemy() - "fmea_alchemyscript.psc" Line 71