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[SOLVED] CBBE HDT BBP/TBBP and XPMS with followers?


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Well, I am a bit confused, and I haven't actually encountered a problem, but I anticipate doing so (though I am not sure). As this confusion is related to an anticipation of a problem, I decided that this section of the forums was the best to post this in.

 

I'm assuming that if you clicked on this, you probably know what all of the terms in the title mean, but for fluency's sake, I'll put them here:

CBBE- Caliente's Beautiful Bodies Edition; a female body mod

HDT- Refers to the physics extension made for the Havok engine

BBP/TBBP- (Tender) Breast and Butt Physics; refers to the mod made for HDT in this post

XPMS- XP32 Maximum Skeleton- a skeleton mod

Followers- Generally refers to modded followers in this post

 

 

 

This post mainly contains my concerns about whether or not my current setup will work with followers that have TBBP skeletons. Everything said past this point is my take on things, and may or may not be correct. Please, please correct me if I am incorrect. Even when I say "I know," I don't actually know for sure.

 

I know that since HDT and XPMS can work together, but are naturally conflicting, I need to delete skeleton_female.hkx in /character assets female/ due to HDT and XPMS both supporting TBBP. This will allow HDT to take over and do the physics work.

 

Despite this, do followers that support CBBE, XPMS, and BBP/TBBP need to have their skeletons deleted for HDT to work?

 

I feel that it is possible, seeing as the Succubus Race Perfect Body option in its installer needs CBBE, HDT, HDT TBBP, and XPMS to function correctly.

 

 

 

Here is an example, for clarity's sake. This will probably clear up everything in my question:

The follower Tania the Hermit supports CBBE, TBBP, and XPMS. Despite this, the author makes no mention of HDT.

The author refers to two things that stand out in the "Install and Usage" section.

 

1) The author says that Tania's body is BBP supported, and she has her own XPMS skeleton. Thus, she needs a skeleton in /character assets female/ that supports BBP as well. Is her skeleton and the skeleton of female vanilla NPCs taken care of by HDT if I delete both her skeleton, and the main skeleton_female? Or, does HDT continue to work for Tania when Tania's skeleton is still present, but skeleton_female has been deleted? OR, does Tania, along with female vanilla NPCs, work with HDT TBBP when both her skeleton and skeleton_female are present? OR maybe none of this works at all, and Tania is incompatible with HDT?

 

2) The author mentions that TBBP animations need to be installed in the female animations folder. I assume that HDT TBBP takes care of this, since it expands on the Havok engine in order to add TBBP animations/physics. This ties into my questions for 1). Does this mean Tania is compatible with HDT? If so, what do I do with her skeleton file, and the skeleton_female file?

 

This question expands to followers similar to Tania that may or may not support HDT, but do support CBBE, TBBP, and XPMS.

 

However, you can say that the big question from this post is "Am I doing anything wrong to make followers compatible with HDT TBBP, CBBE, and XPMS, and if I am, how do I fix that?

 

 

 

I would be forever appreciative if this was cleared up, as I'd like to avoid any mod issues or crashing before I start a new game.

 

Thank you,

Lukas ~Smexy

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Install XPMSE and replace the custom skeletons of others mods with XPMSE. You can forget HDT with XPMS, because either the HDT efect gets totally overwritten by T\BBP animations or the XPMS skeleton messes the body completely up when you remove the T\BBP support from the hkx files.

 

That was talked over like 100 times now, THAT XPMS DOESN'T WORK WITH CORRECTLY WITH HDT PHYSICS PLUGINS (YEAH BOTH PE AND SMP) AND THAT WAS THE REASON WHY XPMSE WAS DONE, AND WHY THERE IS NO "HDT SUPPORTED" ON THE XPMS PAGE.

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I'm gonna save Groov some trouble here :P. Damn, too late :v

 

Have at any point read the description for XPMSE? In any kind of detail? Especially the big orange letters saying "Warning: Do not delete the skeleton_female.hkx"? Or are you actually still using ye olde XPMS?

 

BBP and TBBP came before HDT, it's what introduced the bones HDT now uses (pre-HDT you had to actually manually animate the jiggles, now HDT handles it). That means anything set up for BBP or TBBP should already set up for HDT, though something made specifically for HDT is always best.

 

Again, do not delete anything. Good god. Where've you been getting that kind of info? You don't need to install any BBP or TBBP animations, HDT already handles the jiggles. If Tania's skeleton is only ye olde XPMS, replace that mofo with the latest XPMSE, because stuff aint gonna work right otherwise :P.

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Install XPMSE and replace the custom skeletons of others mods with XPMSE. You can forget HDT with XPMS, because either the HDT efect gets totally overwritten by T\BBP animations or the XPMS skeleton messes the body completely up when you remove the T\BBP support from the hkx files.

 

That was talked over like 100 times now, THAT XPMS DOESN'T WORK WITH CORRECTLY WITH HDT PHYSICS PLUGINS (YEAH BOTH PE AND SMP) AND THAT WAS THE REASON WHY XPMSE WAS DONE, AND WHY THERE IS NO "HDT SUPPORTED" ON THE XPMS PAGE.

 

 

I'm gonna save Groov some trouble here :P. Damn, too late :v

 

Have at any point read the description for XPMSE? In any kind of detail? Especially the big orange letters saying "Warning: Do not delete the skeleton_female.hkx"? Or are you actually still using ye olde XPMS?

 

BBP and TBBP came before HDT, it's what introduced the bones HDT now uses (pre-HDT you had to actually manually animate the jiggles, now HDT handles it). That means anything set up for BBP or TBBP should already set up for HDT, though something made specifically for HDT is always best.

 

Again, do not delete anything. Good god. Where've you been getting that kind of info? You don't need to install any BBP or TBBP animations, HDT already handles the jiggles. If Tania's skeleton is only ye olde XPMS, replace that mofo with the latest XPMSE, because stuff aint gonna work right otherwise :P.

 

I was still using XPMS; XPMSE gets significantly less attention on the Nexus due to it being so new (I don't go on Loverslab much), and it slipped my mind.

Thank you for the wake up call, I appreciate it. I'll start using Extended.

 

I do have one question, however. If all I need is the HDT-PE for TBBP, for what purpose was HDT Breast and Butt Physics created?

Or are you simply saying that HDT BBP is still necessary, but I shouldn't have any other BBP/TBBP animation mods?

 

Again, thank you very much. Even if this has been talked over many times, and you are understandably annoyed, I appreciate it greatly.

 

~Lukas ~Smexy

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I do have one question, however. If all I need is the HDT-PE for TBBP, for what purpose was HDT Breast and Butt Physics created?

Or are you simply saying that HDT BBP is still necessary, but I shouldn't have any other BBP/TBBP animation mods?

 

I don't know what that mod does, but it's just a single XML file, one that's already present in HDT-PE. I would assume it's merely a different config than the default. HDT-PE on its own already applies breasts/butt physics, when combined with a compatible skeleton (like XPSME), and a compatible body (for CBBE, that means the CBBE HDT option in BodySlide).

 

Also, there's no such thing as "HDT BBP", those are two different things.

  • BBP was the old system, and it worked by having the the walk/run/etc animations manipulate the breast/butt nodes of the skeleton to make them move around, giving the illusion that they're affected by physics.
  • HDT is the new system, which uses actual physics to animate bodies. The main advantage of HDT is that animations no longer have to worry about managing bounce, HDT animates that automatically. It also makes for a much more natural looking result, in my opinion.

So with all that in mind, if you want your followers that use custom skeletons/bodies to work with HDT, you need only replace their skeleton with XPMSE, and their bodies with a HDT version.

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I was still using XPMS; XPMSE gets significantly less attention on the Nexus due to it being so new (I don't go on Loverslab much), and it slipped my mind.

 

 

Thank you for the wake up call, I appreciate it. I'll start using Extended.

 

I do have one question, however. If all I need is the HDT-PE for TBBP, for what purpose was HDT Breast and Butt Physics created?

Or are you simply saying that HDT BBP is still necessary, but I shouldn't have any other BBP/TBBP animation mods?

 

Again, thank you very much. Even if this has been talked over many times, and you are understandably annoyed, I appreciate it greatly.

 

~Lukas ~Smexy

 

Nexus is mentally a year behind LL when it comes to HDT Physics Plugins, also 90% of the Nexus people do not even remotely know what the difference is between BBP, TBBP, HDT-PE and HDT-SMP is. Some even think HDT Bodies are for HDT High Heels. Nexus is for HDT Physics information, boldly said useless.

 

The system distincting Wraith used to explain it is also my favorite explaination, because it puts BBP and TBBP together and HDT-PE and HDT-SMP, because what they do is the same, just some minor differences in the how they do it.

 

The xmls on Nexus are often just modified versions of the ones that were created on LL. That mod your posted was at the time it was released on Nexus for LL people from a feature point laughable outdated. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/59416/?that one is meanwhile on the current LL state and should be favored over that "oh we have now HDT on the Nexus too" xml edit joke mod on the nexus.

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Also, knew it forgot something:

 

I was still using XPMS; XPMSE gets significantly less attention on the Nexus due to it being so new

XPMSE has been on the Nexus for ages as an optional download on the XPMS page. It's just only recently gotten its own separate page is all.

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I see! All of this makes the world of sense! Thank you, to all three of you, for the insights and help you've given me. This is insanely helpful.

I only have one last question, relating to Wraith's post:

 

 

 

I do have one question, however. If all I need is the HDT-PE for TBBP, for what purpose was HDT Breast and Butt Physics created?

Or are you simply saying that HDT BBP is still necessary, but I shouldn't have any other BBP/TBBP animation mods?

 

I don't know what that mod does, but it's just a single XML file, one that's already present in HDT-PE. I would assume it's merely a different config than the default. HDT-PE on its own already applies breasts/butt physics, when combined with a compatible skeleton (like XPSME), and a compatible body (for CBBE, that means the CBBE HDT option in BodySlide).

 

Also, there's no such thing as "HDT BBP", those are two different things.

  • BBP was the old system, and it worked by having the the walk/run/etc animations manipulate the breast/butt nodes of the skeleton to make them move around, giving the illusion that they're affected by physics.
  • HDT is the new system, which uses actual physics to animate bodies. The main advantage of HDT is that animations no longer have to worry about managing bounce, HDT animates that automatically. It also makes for a much more natural looking result, in my opinion.

So with all that in mind, if you want your followers that use custom skeletons/bodies to work with HDT, you need only replace their skeleton with XPMSE, and their bodies with a HDT version.

 

 

I totally understand the replacing skeleton part of followers, and I understand the reasoning behind replacing the bodies as well. However, as I am unsure of what files to replace (although I have a guess), I would love it if you could provide a bit more insight.

 

For example, this is a picture from the "body" folder of the Hikari follower.

fIVO42N.png

 

After I've installed HDT and CBBE, I'm assuming that replacing any files except for all four of the files starting with "femalebody" would change her appearance, so should I replace only the four "femalebody" files with the main Skyrim files, or should I replace more files too (or less files, if some of the "femalebody" files are not supposed to be replaced, I really don't know much about the Skyrim file system). If you could clear this up for me, it would be very helpful, and will likely be the clencher on this topic.

 

~Lukas ~Smexy

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I see! All of this makes the world of sense! Thank you, to all three of you, for the insights and help you've given me. This is insanely helpful.

I only have one last question, relating to Wraith's post:

 

I totally understand the replacing skeleton part of followers, and I understand the reasoning behind replacing the bodies as well. However, as I am unsure of what files to replace (although I have a guess), I would love it if you could provide a bit more insight.

 

For example, this is a picture from the "body" folder of the Hikari follower.

 

http://fIVO42N.png

 

After I've installed HDT and CBBE, I'm assuming that replacing any files except for all four of the files starting with "femalebody" would change her appearance, so should I replace only the four "femalebody" files with the main Skyrim files, or should I replace more files too (or less files, if some of the "femalebody" files are not supposed to be replaced, I really don't know much about the Skyrim file system). If you could clear this up for me, it would be very helpful, and will likely be the clencher on this topic.

 

~Lukas ~Smexy

 

Your screenshot is from the textures folder. These files are not related to HDT support in any way.

 

I'll list which files you have to copy into your custom follower/race mods, and where you can get them from. However, it's still up to you to find where your mods are storing their custom bodies/skeletons that have to be replaced, as their exact location depends on the mod.

 

Skeleton:

Files to replace: skeleton_female.hkx, skeleton_female.nif, skeletonbeast_female.nif

Copy from: \Skyrim\Data\Meshes\actors\character\character assets female

 

That's all you'll need for skeleton. You won't necessarily need all these files, just the ones your follower mod already had in its custom folder.

 

Body:

Files to replace: Everything that starts with "female" or "1stpersonfemale"

Copy from: \Skyrim\Data\Meshes\actors\character\character assets

 

This will replace the follower's entire body with the one your default NPCs are using. Technically, you only need femalebody_0.nif and femalebody_1.nif to enable HDT support, but copying them all ensures that all files are from the same version and BodySlide settings, avoiding issues like mismatched body parts at the wrists/ankles.

 

Lastly, if you use custom textures for the body mod you have installed, and want your followers to have them as well, you can replace your follower's textures with the ones from \Skyrim\Data\Textures\Actors\character\female.

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I see! All of this makes the world of sense! Thank you, to all three of you, for the insights and help you've given me. This is insanely helpful.

I only have one last question, relating to Wraith's post:

 

I totally understand the replacing skeleton part of followers, and I understand the reasoning behind replacing the bodies as well. However, as I am unsure of what files to replace (although I have a guess), I would love it if you could provide a bit more insight.

 

For example, this is a picture from the "body" folder of the Hikari follower.

 

http://fIVO42N.png

 

After I've installed HDT and CBBE, I'm assuming that replacing any files except for all four of the files starting with "femalebody" would change her appearance, so should I replace only the four "femalebody" files with the main Skyrim files, or should I replace more files too (or less files, if some of the "femalebody" files are not supposed to be replaced, I really don't know much about the Skyrim file system). If you could clear this up for me, it would be very helpful, and will likely be the clencher on this topic.

 

~Lukas ~Smexy

 

Your screenshot is from the textures folder. These files are not related to HDT support in any way.

 

I'll list which files you have to copy into your custom follower/race mods, and where you can get them from. However, it's still up to you to find where your mods are storing their custom bodies/skeletons that have to be replaced, as their exact location depends on the mod.

 

Skeleton:

Files to replace: skeleton_female.hkx, skeleton_female.nif, skeletonbeast_female.nif

Copy from: \Skyrim\Data\Meshes\actors\character\character assets female

 

That's all you'll need for skeleton. You won't necessarily need all these files, just the ones your follower mod already had in its custom folder.

 

Body:

Files to replace: Everything that starts with "female" or "1stpersonfemale"

Copy from: \Skyrim\Data\Meshes\actors\character\character assets

 

This will replace the follower's entire body with the one your default NPCs are using. Technically, you only need femalebody_0.nif and femalebody_1.nif to enable HDT support, but copying them all ensures that all files are from the same version and BodySlide settings, avoiding issues like mismatched body parts at the wrists/ankles.

 

Lastly, if you use custom textures for the body mod you have installed, and want your followers to have them as well, you can replace your follower's textures with the ones from \Skyrim\Data\Textures\Actors\character\female.

 

 

 

 

Well, as I said, I am not very familiar with the Skyrim files and folders.

However, I get it now. Thank you very much.

One LAST question though... I promise.

 

If the folder I showed was from the textures file, and I replace the femalebody and femalehands files, but not the femalehead files, will the texture and color be mismatched?

I'm wondering because If it's a texture file I assume it has data unique to that NPC apart from hair/brows/eyes (although I could be wrong, which would not surprise me).

 

I do use a custom texture, so I would want to replace their texture files, but I would not want to do so if it made their heads have a different shade from their bodies, or if their heads changed into a more generic head.

 

Again, thank you.

~Lukas ~Smexy

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Well, as I said, I am not very familiar with the Skyrim files and folders.

However, I get it now. Thank you very much.

One LAST question though... I promise.

 

If the folder I showed was from the textures file, and I replace the femalebody and femalehands files, but not the femalehead files, will the texture and color be mismatched?

I'm wondering because If it's a texture file I assume it has data unique to that NPC apart from hair/brows/eyes (although I could be wrong, which would not surprise me).

 

I do use a custom texture, so I would want to replace their texture files, but I would not want to do so if it made their heads have a different shade from their bodies, or if their heads changed into a more generic head.

 

Again, thank you.

~Lukas ~Smexy

 

If you're concerned about neck seams, it's probably best to leave the followers' textures alone.

 

However, odds are that your custom body textures will still work fine when combined the follower's head textures, unless the textures you're using are way off the standard CBBE. You could always make a backup and try; if it goes south, let the followers use the textures they originally had.

 

Also, there's a tool called TexBlend that can supposedly fix texture seams, though I've never used it so I can't help you there.

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