Can someone explain why people like UNP and 7base over CBBE?

[Ryu]

And sparked by this discussion, today I decided to revisit UNP Bodyslide 0.3.4. Noticing that none of the base shapes satisfies me, I went back to my HGECR .

I guess all that was said so far can be emphasized by Absurdity's 'Ah, one of those threads again...' and few words of wisdom:
One does not simply find his perfect Skyrim body mod .

 

I found mine, good luck to others .

Peace ;D.

[GrimReaper]

I think the whole "UNP is better because it has a higher count" is just a try to gain a highground to circumvent the problem that discussions about taste are pointless and every opinion has the same weight.

[Guest]

 

 

I don't get it.

To be honest  I don't get why you don't get it OP.  

 

Why would people prefer to stick with a narrow choice of shape rather than embrace CBBE for Body Slide? Because their priorities are different to yours. No disrespect but it's hardly rocket science - diversity of opinion and subjective taste is something you will come face to face with virtually every single day of your life. Why on earth would body mods be any different?

 

This debate is always going to go around and around in ever decreasing circles and the only conclusion is 'different strokes'.  

 

edit: just read Cell's post - if we ended up with a body that had all the technical advantages of the best of them but with Body Slide, that's probably as close to standardization as we'll ever get, right? Then I might have more sympathy with the question of 'why?', especially as OS becomes more sophisticated

 

[Guest]

I think the whole "UNP is better because it has a higher count" is just a try to gain a highground to circumvent the problem that discussions about taste are pointless and every opinion has the same weight.

So is claiming Body Slide is the nuclear option and all other considerations beyond body shape must therefore be redundant. 

 

edit: not being combative, totally agreeing with you, just saying it does work both ways. 

[gvman3670]

I think the whole "UNP is better because it has a higher count" is just a try to gain a highground to circumvent the problem that discussions about taste are pointless and every opinion has the same weight.

 

Not all opinions carry the same weight, though. An opinion backed up by reason and demonstrable truth/evidence is always better than opinion not backed by reason and evidence.

 

And this doesn't only apply to opinions about virtual bodies in a video game, but to everything in this universe.

[Kidaen]

 

Not all opinions carry the same weight, though. An opinion backed up by reason and demonstrable truth/evidence is always better than opinion not backed by reason and evidence.

 

And this doesn't only apply to opinions about virtual bodies in a video game, but to everything in this universe.

 

Opinions exclusively in the realm of taste does not need evidence or reason to give it weight. It's why this discussion is what it is. I mean for example, I don't use CBBE because I didn't like Caliente's work in other Bethesda games I played, and fenagaling sliders is more aggravation than the reward is worth for me, so Bodyslide's "features" are all negatives.

 

You can't tell me my opinion is wrong or that for the purposes of questioning why someone might not use CBBE+Bodyslide my opinion is less valid than someone else's because the subject under discussion concerns subjective intangibles.

[zupra]

I never had actually tryed UNP because i did not like the look of it in the pictures and in the videos. So i downloaded UNPB and tried it. I know everyone has different taste but for me the biggest turn off was butt shape. It was like a flat butt rather than round, like an old womans butt. Body shape was close to my CBBE custom body but legs were skinnier. Also i failed to find out what are those superior details u guys are talking about. Maybe they were hidden behind the bad SG renewal textures i tried. I like to tweak the body every now and then (especially breasts) so i don't think i can ever give up using CBBE with body slide. Can't wait for Calientes new version of the body.

[gvman3670]

 

 

Not all opinions carry the same weight, though. An opinion backed up by reason and demonstrable truth/evidence is always better than opinion not backed by reason and evidence.

 

And this doesn't only apply to opinions about virtual bodies in a video game, but to everything in this universe.

 

Opinions exclusively in the realm of taste does not need evidence or reason to give it weight. It's why this discussion is what it is. I mean for example, I don't use CBBE because I didn't like Caliente's work in other Bethesda games I played, and fenagaling sliders is more aggravation than the reward is worth for me, so Bodyslide's "features" are all negatives.

 

You can't tell me my opinion is wrong or that for the purposes of questioning why someone might not use CBBE+Bodyslide my opinion is less valid than someone else's because the subject under discussion concerns subjective intangibles.

 

 

You're absolutely correct in that it makes no difference when there are no tangibles. But in a discussion where tangibles ARE available and present then there is a difference.

 

In this specific example (body types) two very tangible points are CBBE having a wide range of shapes and clothing/armor available, or that UNP variants have more vertices for a better overall shape and look. These are both tangible, verifiable and testable points to make. These add weight to an opinion.

 

Of course, if your argument is merely "I like this shape" or "I don't like this shape" then the opinion is absolutely weightless.

[GrimReaper]

 

I think the whole "UNP is better because it has a higher count" is just a try to gain a highground to circumvent the problem that discussions about taste are pointless and every opinion has the same weight.

 

Not all opinions carry the same weight, though. An opinion backed up by reason and demonstrable truth/evidence is always better than opinion not backed by reason and evidence.

 

And this doesn't only apply to opinions about virtual bodies in a video game, but to everything in this universe.

 

 

Not when it is about taste. It's true that UNP has a higher poly/vertex/whatever it is called count than CBBE, but that fact isn't relevant for the topic at hand.

 

The point is, facts and truth is all fine and dandy but it has to back up your statement in a relevant way. To exaggerate what I mean: CBBE is better because the sun is hot.

[poblivion]

Previously I used CBBE then I switched to UNP. And now trying different versions derived from the UNP. The CBBE I would not come back. But everyone likes something different .

 

I started using The Khmera Body V.2     http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/48406/?

[Fredas]

Caliente still has the raw HQ meshes on her PC...

 

You have my attention.

 

So which will happen first?  UNP Bodyslide catches up to BodySlide2, or we get a 6.5k+ vertex CBBE that's compatible with BodySlide2?

 

Because in the meantime, UNPB has the throne, you know.

[Fredas]

More vertices doesnt mean better. It means UNOPTIMIZED.

 

You know, this kind of reminds me of the time when video downloads were starting to transition beyond 480p.  There were actually some people complaining about it - looking for some way to nitpick the very concept of a visual upgrade.  It baffled me then, and it baffles me now.

[Srende]

The whole situation reminds me of this.

 

That said, I do like the basic CBBE shape more and prefer the customization with it. And since it should be able to cover most (if not all) shapes, in perfect world everyone would be using it, or any mod with a tool like bodyslide.

[bob11]

Why would someone pick a standard body when he can tweak it to his liking all he likes with Bodyslide? O_o  I wish all the armor mods was bodyslide compatible, then no one would ever need to convert anything to anything, all armors would be available for every possible customized body and the world would have peace.

 

High poly count... It's nice but like hell I'm leaving my customizable bodies for poly count.  Now OBVIOUSLY if UNP had a Bodyslide 2 and an equal support in bodyslide compatible armors, the high poly count would take the cake, obviously, since they would otherwise be identical.  But it doesn't, so that's a moot point, because the same could be said regarding CBBE bodyslide getting a high vertex version.

[gvman3670]

 

 

I think the whole "UNP is better because it has a higher count" is just a try to gain a highground to circumvent the problem that discussions about taste are pointless and every opinion has the same weight.

 

Not all opinions carry the same weight, though. An opinion backed up by reason and demonstrable truth/evidence is always better than opinion not backed by reason and evidence.

 

And this doesn't only apply to opinions about virtual bodies in a video game, but to everything in this universe.

 

 

Not when it is about taste. It's true that UNP has a higher poly/vertex/whatever it is called count than CBBE, but that fact isn't relevant for the topic at hand.

 

The point is, facts and truth is all fine and dandy but it has to back up your statement in a relevant way. To exaggerate what I mean: CBBE is better because the sun is hot.

 

 

Higher poly count is a tangible, measurable and relevant reason to prefer that body type. Isn't it? It's not as trivial, meaningless or irrelevant as "the sun is hot".

 

I personally don't care who likes what. But I do appreciate people exercising critical thinking and reasoning skills and was just hoping to keep people moving in that direction. There could be a right answer here, but we'll never find it if every response is based on taste.

 

[Shizune]

I think this discussion is utterly pointless since the fact discussed ITT is not the advantages of UNP over CBBE and the other way around, but dragging Bodyslide into the argument. Of course the idea of Bodyslide and a program that would match the outfits to the custom body is great, but still I consider that distant future. I'm more of an oldschool usertype and I've been brought up on Oblivion so my individualism concerning bodyshape has been smothered a bit since back then there was not even a weight slider so I don't feel any major shame forfeiting my own preferences due to an already provided body mod.

 

I think we should just give Calyps, Dimon, MrTroubleMaker and all the people behind bodyshape mods more time and wait until they either develop a high polycount Bodyslide compatible CBBE body or a UNP Bodyslide. In both cases the outcome will be pretty much the same - everybody will be pleased.

[Fredas]

Let's not forget that BodySlide2 is not (yet?) the end-all of customization.  For example, you cannot under any circumstance create the nipples seen in Manga Body v3:

 

 

So even if the app had access to a high vertex-count body, it would still need some extra tweaking before certain arguably desirable features could be rendered possible.  But perhaps this limitation was alluded to earlier in the thread.

 

[GrimReaper]

 

More vertices doesnt mean better. It means UNOPTIMIZED.

 

You know, this kind of reminds me of the time when video downloads were starting to transition beyond 480p.  There were actually some people complaining about it - looking for some way to nitpick the very concept of a visual upgrade.  It baffled me then, and it baffles me now.

 

 

It's not the same, though. You can increase the amount of vertices with the press of a button, more or less. And it doesn't change how the mesh looks one bit. You can have the exact same mesh with 500 and 5000 vertices and you won't notice a difference - other than it takes a lot more ressources to render the mesh with the higher count.

[Cyndi]

Bodyslide vs just installing unpb?

 

Hours (or minutes if you aren't as fussy as I am) fucking around to get bodyslide just the way I want it...

or, and this is a truly novel idea I know.... but why not.... now come on just hear me out on this....

why not..... just install the unpb variant I love, and I'm done? Crazy I know, but seriously why not?

Cuz dem what, 12 properly bodyslide capable outfits?  oooohhh wait, I'd have to fuck around with them too.

 

I hate to break it to you, but pointless extra effort isn't most people's idea of fun.

 

Why mess around with something, when you can just get what you want out of the box? It's like ordering a pizza with nothing on it, just to put toppings on it when it gets to your house. Fuck, pay the extra $1.50 for double cheese if you want it.

Sure I'll admit that for many, no body mod looks exactly the way they want it right out of the box, but for me and apparently a lot of others, that just isn't the case.

 

"Can you make this bodyslide compatible?"

"I'd rather put a cigarette out in my eye, one weight slider was enough of a pain in the ass thank you." 

Enough said there I think.

 

[GrimReaper]

 

 

Higher poly count is a tangible, measurable and relevant reason to prefer that body type. Isn't it? It's not as trivial, meaningless or irrelevant as "the sun is hot".

 

I personally don't care who likes what. But I do appreciate people exercising critical thinking and reasoning skills and was just hoping to keep people moving in that direction. There could be a right answer here, but we'll never find it if every response is based on taste.

 

 

In this case it indeed is as relevant as "the sun is hot". As I said earlier, the vertex count doesn't do much on it's own. For example, a simple cube has 8 vertices - you can increase that amount to 8000 and there is not the tiniest difference on how the cube looks.

[tryguy]

Let's just say that I /hate/ CBBE for being so undefined and bland.

 

UNP may have issues with motions and positions (shoulders bending unrealistically during SEXLAB animations), but I can live with that if it means I have better looking boobs and asses. And, that's what UNP is all about. Can't you see that? I tried to play with bodyslide sliders to create a more UNP-like ass. I couldn't do it. That wasn't using BS 2. It might be different now, but it's probably not.

 

Maybe I'm mistaken, and CBBE is pretty good now. But I bet it's just the same. I hate it.

[GrimReaper]

Why mess around with something, when you can just get what you want out of the box?

 

That is exactly the point. What if the availabe out of the box options are not what you want? I'd rather order a blank pizza and doing the rest on my own than eating a pizza with stuff on it that I don't like.

[Redflyingmonkey]

I think this post could've gone in a right direction if we discussed about the question : is bodyslider making all the different body meshes vain and useless now ? I mean, if Caliente comes up with what little detail UNP lovers hate about CBBE in the first place for her body, and then bodyslide evolves to the point where it can edit those new verticles as well as meshes on outfit studio in a smoother way, what happens ?

 

The comments shouldn't have been focused on a taste battle that looks like the moronic fight between XBOX and PS users. It should be about whether personalizing bodies now is about pragmatism or if it is about subjective attachment to a particular body mesh. 

[Captain Cobra]

Where's the love for CHSBV3?

[Fredas]

It's not the same, though. You can increase the amount of vertices with the press of a button, more or less. And it doesn't change how the mesh looks one bit. You can have the exact same mesh with 500 and 5000 vertices and you won't notice a difference - other than it takes a lot more ressources to render the mesh with the higher count.

 

You're visualizing scenarios where the modeler is arbitrarily adding vertices to a 100% flat surface.  I am talking about:

 

1) Improving the curvature of what's supposed to be a curved surface.  (See the shoulders example from earlier.)

2) Preventing in-game customization from revealing mesh shortcomings.  (Expansion of breasts, modification of nipples.)

3) Enabling more refined detail on the whole.

 

 

Resource arguments are hardly invalid, but I believe the focus here is on what is "best" among what's available... not what is best for a given person's hardware.