Cellan Race - Otters

[Blaze69]

13 hours ago, GDelscribe said:

Ah I see. Any way we can make the shape different without breaking things? 

I guess it would be possible to edit the UNP body mesh and give it that specific shape, though I'm not sure if the polys on the area are enough for it to look good. Could also do it with the UUNP Special body so the bits properly react to collision and you have more detail.

 

Downside is that it would lock you into a specific body shape, though. I personally use the UNPBB preset which is almost identical to the original UNP one but with very slightly rounder and bigger breasts, so I guess the Cellan using the UNP shape wouldn't be that noticeable; but for someone using something like SevenBase for the other races, chances are the contrast between them and Cellans would be pretty jarring.

 

I guess it would be okay as long as it doesn't require custom texture edits or those edits remain compatible with regular UUNP bodies; that way if you want the custom body you can use it, and if not, you can simply use a regular one.

13 hours ago, GDelscribe said:

Fortunecookies.png

Spoiler

OFF-TOPIC:

 

Huh. Is that the whole image, or was it cropped? That bodypaint design is certainly interesting, and I'm curious to see if it covers any other part of the body or it's just the bits. Might even try replicating it for a Slavetats/RaceMenu Overlay, though chances are it will end up looking bad, lol (gotta work my texturing skills a bit more).

 

EDIT: I just realized chances are it's just one of those demeaning "Insert X here"/"Use me!" tattoos, since the circles seem to be a bullseye instead. At first I thought it could be some kind of tribal-style naughty war paint or something like that, which is why I asked. Still, the question stands.

 

/OFF-TOPIC

9 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I'll see what I can do. I should think the jewelry is possible.

Per my above comment, I also think is possible, but with caveats. I guess you can give it a shot if you want.

 

As for the jewelry, I'm not sure if that's what GDelscribe actually wanted it as well or it was the anatomically-correct otter bits only, but I'm pretty sure it has been done already, yes. Can't remember where, though. Also, if you ever want to do something like that yourself, you could use the ring meshes from the shark race (I used them as fin rings). I know creating ring meshes for if from scratch would be relatively quick and easy, but those are done and textured already, so that's less work for you.

[Bad Dog]

Thanks. As for a slightly different shape on otters, they are a different species after all, so I think it would work. I'll play with options. 

 

I can do whatever with reshaping the vulva, and I assume proper weights will make the jewelry move with it during normal motion. What I don't understand is HDT and whether the rings will be pushed out of the way when an object (hot! steamy! man-meat!) is inserted. 

 

BTW, does anyone know how the mouths open when an object (hsm-m!) is inserted? There's no bones for that so it's got to be some kind of a collision thing. But how does the system know to open in just that way?

 

The tats are part of a whole-body tribal-ish set. I can do that as a special skin, but it will have to be assigned to specific NPCs. I dunno nuthin about no body tats.

[Blaze69]

25 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I can do whatever with reshaping the vulva, and I assume proper weights will make the jewelry move with it during normal motion. What I don't understand is HDT and whether the rings will be pushed out of the way when an object (hot! steamy! man-meat!) is inserted. 

AFAIK the HDT collision enabled female bits works something like this:

• Each "side" of it is weighted to a specific body on the corresponding side of the skeleton (NPC L/R Pussy02).
• HDT works with bones only, not meshes, so in the XML data you attach a logic-only "collision mesh" (usually a sphere) to the SOS Gen6 bone (aka tip of the schlong), as well as a collision mesh to each of those 2 "Pussy02" bones.
• When sex happens, (and if the anim is properly aligned), the Gen6 bone shape will end up colliding against the shapes on the Pussy02 bones and pushing them to their sides (so the L bone goes to the left and the R to the right).
• As the bones move, they pull the weighted bits with them and make them look like they are"opening", giving the impression that the actual schlong mesh is the one entering and pushing them apart.

Not sure if this is clear enough, but I really don't know how to explain it better. Perhaps with a drawing..?

 

Anyway, as long as you only "inflate" and reshapes the area without changing sides or stuff like that, the Special HDT setup should still work more or less fine. As for piercings, as long as they have the exact same weights as the part of the body they are connected to, they should work fine as well.

25 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

BTW, does anyone know how the mouths open when an object (hsm-m!) is inserted? There's no bones for that so it's got to be some kind of a collision thing. But how does the system know to open in just that way?

Scripting. All mouth/facial expressions and phonemes can only be applied via the built-in expression system, so chances are those items have a script attached that causes them to send a command that reads something like "set the OpenMouth/Aaah/BigAaah phoneme to 100" (of course translated to Papyrus code).

 

If you have MFG Console installed, you can try it yourself manually with the "mp" (Modify Phoneme) and "mm" (Modify Modifier) commands. IIRC "mp 0 100" should make the character open their mouth in a "regular" way, while "mp 1 100" will force them to open wide with the BigAhh phoneme (though it looks too extreme and pretty bad most of the time). You can also use "mfg reset" to reset all modifiers to 0, as they can be stacked but they usually look pretty bad if you combine several at the same time. 

 

The window on the right that shows up when you select a NPC or the player with the console is a list of the available modifiers and phonemes with the code (used in the mp/mm commands), the ingame name (Ahh, BigAhh, Eeeh...) and the current value set by script.

25 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

The tats are part of a whole-body tribal-ish set. I can do that as a special skin, but it will have to be assigned to specific NPCs. I dunno nuthin about no body tats.

Oh, really? Have you seen the full picture or something like that? (And if so, could I have a link? )

 

Overlays/body tats are relatively easy to create AFAIK. You only need to paint the tattoo on a DDS file over the body UV (usually over the body texture itself for reference), and then delete everything except for the tattoo itself. So you end up with a DDS file that is transparent except for the tattoo lines. I can show you an example of an exisiting overlay so you know how it goes if need be. Then it's just a matter of setting up the required scripts (RaceMenu) or JSON files (SlaveTats) for it to be loaded and available ingame.

[GDelscribe]

While the piercings are more specific to that character theyre not really as necessary as the rest. The different shape was mainly what i meant yeah. And while the markings would be nice! Theyre also not necessary either so dont trouble yourself if its too much work.

 

The shape is important tho.

 

 

@Blaze69

You asked if it was a crop or a full size image and its a crop yeah. The markings actually do have a lore reason to the cellan in their original story, their god (who may or may not be dead) bestows upon them great power and they end up with red line markings all accross their body based on their potential.  Their placement tends towards a system similar to chakras in buddhist/hindu beliefs. 

 

Its not a bullseye as much as concentric circles and Im beginning to realise that a lot of folks mistake it as so lmao.

 

The character with the piercing is actually a tribal leader who has tons of the markings. Culturally theyre indicative among the cellan of personal worth. People who have more or specific ones are worth more/stronger. As well culturally they had clothing designed around the markings because if you had them you were expected to show them off or accent them. Hence her labia piercings.

 

That said because theyre not on the plains of Marsus, their On Nirn, in tamriel, i dunno if the Markings are exactly important or if theyd even show up anymore. They could however actually continue to do some kind of painting/etc to carry on with them tradition wise if we wanted to include them. For the mod however theyre only minor importance.

 

So theyre not really naughty tats either but. Cultural religious markings that just happen to sometimes end up in the genital region.

 

The shape of the vulva itself was my main concern at the time as you noted.

 

Anyway Im gonna be attaching the original uncropped art here along with the boy for public reference reasons.

 

 

The faces are a bit off on the boy (Akern)  but. Heres the original refs.

 

@Bad Dog

So yeah if theyre easy to do then by all means piercings/markings would be great. Main concern is the vulva shape for now but. Yeah!  If its not too hard.

 

Spoiler

My real question is if scrotal piercings work or if SOS is not compatible with that sort of thing. Or if the tats work with SOS at all. Which is why I didnt really mean to bring up either of those things.

[Blaze69]

47 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

You asked if it was a crop or a full size image and its a crop yeah. The markings actually do have a lore reason to the cellan in their original story, their god (who may or may not be dead) bestows upon them great power and they end up with red line markings all accross their body based on their potential.  Their placement tends towards a system similar to chakras in buddhist/hindu beliefs. 

Oh, that is neat! I really like when fictional (anthro) races have detailed backgrounds and lore with stuff like this, it helps flesh them out and be more meaningful, that's great. 

47 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

Its not a bullseye as much as concentric circles and Im beginning to realise that a lot of folks mistake it as so lmao.

Well, to be fair, I didn't know that pic was Cellan-specific, but rather thought you simple searched for art on anthro otters with anatomicaly correct genitalia and that's the first one you found that would be a good reference. That's why I thought it could be a bullseye too. My first impression was that they were indeed some kind of markings or tribal paint, so I guess I was right.

47 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

That said because theyre not on the plains of Marsus, their On Nirn, in tamriel, i dunno if the Markings are exactly important or if theyd even show up anymore. They could however actually continue to do some kind of painting/etc to carry on with them tradition wise if we wanted to include them. For the mod however theyre only minor importance.

 

So theyre not really naughty tats either but. Cultural religious markings that just happen to sometimes end up in the genital region.

By all means keep them, says I. I like them and I think they enhance the lore of the race as well as the race itself. As for whether to make them into some kind of divine marking as per your original lore or simple non-magical/"mundane" body paints (that could still hold great relevance for the race, like for example Tā moko/tattoos do for Māori), I guess that would be up to you.

 

One thought, though: Dremora seem have similar body markings/tattoos specific to their ranks and castes and stuff as per ESO lore (you can get some such paints as cosmetic items for your character); they seem to work on fur too as they are available to Khajiit (unlike other paints, so it could be intended) and they are red very much like your own. Perhaps tie into that somehow? Just a thought, I'll be happy with any lore for those as long as they are in, lol.

47 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

Anyway Im gonna be attaching the original uncropped art here along with the boy for public reference reasons. The faces are a bit off on the boy (Akern)  but. Heres the original refs.

Interesting. I assume you commissioned/drawn those, since they are Cellan specific? I have to say, I like the first, second and fourth pictures (she's cute in pic 2) and I don't see much wrong with the male character outside of the face not looking specially otter-y (guess that's what you meant with it being "off"?).

47 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

My real question is if scrotal piercings work or if SOS is not compatible with that sort of thing. Or if the tats work with SOS at all. Which is why I didnt really mean to bring up either of those things.

Yes, SOS piercings are a thing. Both on the scrotum and on the schlong itself AFAIK (I think Kendo 2 made some, so I'll link them if I find the file), so they should be doable. EDIT: here's the file I mentioned: Kendo 2's Piercings and PA's for SOS.

 

As for tats, though... RaceMenu only supports overlays on body, hands and feet, so obviously schlongs are not supported (neither are tails, for that matter). SlaveTats may or may not support those, so I would have to check. Worst case scenario, they could be painted on the texture itself and that's it.

[GDelscribe]

That works for me actually. I'll definitely keep the markings lore in then and work on some backing for it. I might PM you about it later to mull over. And yeah they're commissioned and are cellan specific lmao. And yeah I moreso meant he doesnt look as ottery as he should ;p

 

 

 

Id actually always wondered about the tails thing since I'd never seen argonian or khajiit tail marking mods so I guess that explains why.

[Blaze69]

2 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

That works for me actually. I'll definitely keep the markings lore in then and work on some backing for it. I might PM you about it later to mull over.

Feel free to do so, but don't expect much because I'm not that good at coming up with such ideas and as I've said before I'm not 100% on ES lore (I do know some things here and there, though, and I can always do some research).

 

Would like to know Bad Dog's thoughts on it as well.

2 minutes ago, GDelscribe said:

Id actually always wondered about the tails thing since I'd never seen argonian or khajiit tail marking mods so I guess that explains why.

Tails draw from the body texture, but the problem is they use a different slot from the body and I think the overlay stuff is slot-based. Maybe it is possible to add tail overlays (even if it's separate from body ones) but nobody has bothered to look into it; or maybe it's simply not possible due to the way the system works. Who knows.

[Bad Dog]

Guys, look what I found. Otters are startlingly terrifying.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01iWx4476pY

[Bad Dog]

3 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

Scripting. All mouth/facial expressions and phonemes can only be applied via the built-in expression system, so chances are those items have a script attached that causes them to send a command that reads something like "set the OpenMouth/Aaah/BigAaah phoneme to 100" (of course translated to Papyrus code).

Really? But if the characters are misaligned, the mouth doesn't open. Move them back into alignment and the mouth opens to accept whatever is put in it. There's got to be something more happening than scripting. (The MFG stuff is how I test mouth fit, by the way.)

 

3 hours ago, GDelscribe said:

That said because theyre not on the plains of Marsus, their On Nirn, in tamriel, i dunno if the Markings are exactly important or if theyd even show up anymore. They could however actually continue to do some kind of painting/etc to carry on with them tradition wise if we wanted to include them. For the mod however theyre only minor importance.

So if the markings just show up, maybe they still show up by themselves but no one remembers any more why. They've lost their history and religion, but their god is still out there trying to bring them back, and this is him/her/its only way to communicate. There could be a whole quest to lead the Cellan race back to the god.

 

I'll play with the shape of the naughty bits when I'm done with the tris. The UUNP labia have their own highy detailed mesh, so I bet I can do something reasonable.

[Bad Dog]

Some progress:

 

Spoiler

I don't know why the fur on the outside of the labia is so pale, or why the inside glows so much. I can match the colors better but I probably need a new normal map, since I'm pulling the other labia around pretty substantially. I've got a fairly large hood over the clit, but maybe it could be bigger? As you see the collision stuff works fine with just bone weights. 

 

By the way, where are people getting collision-enabled SOS schlongs? I looked around a bit and found nothing--ended up pulling the HDT info off the yiffy schlongs and making my own set for these pics.

 

 

[Blaze69]

16 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

Some progress:

 

I don't know why the fur on the outside of the labia is so pale, or why the inside glows so much. I can match the colors better but I probably need a new normal map, since I'm pulling the other labia around pretty substantially. I've got a fairly large hood over the clit, but maybe it could be bigger? As you see the collision stuff works fine with just bone weights. 

Looking pretty good so far, can't wait to play around with it, lol .

 

What is that exactly, though? Did you just take the existing Special mesh and upscaled/pulled it out? Did you create a new mesh or add new geometry to the body one? Only reason I can think of for the descoloration is it being a separate mesh and having different shader settings than the body defaults in NifSkope/the "normals" flag enabled. Otherwise, I guess normals or speculars could that effect due to the extent of the changes to the area (if it's still the same mesh with different shape but no new geometry), but I'm not sure.

 

How far are you from a release with females included? Doesn't look like that much of a problem and fits more or less good enough, and I could take a look at the meshes/textures once it's out in case we can improve it even further. Just my two cents, though.

16 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

By the way, where are people getting collision-enabled SOS schlongs? I looked around a bit and found nothing--ended up pulling the HDT info off the yiffy schlongs and making my own set for these pics.

Naturalistic HDT includes custom XML files with the required data and meshes linked to that file for most SOS addons (the default SOS ones + Leito's + a "generic" XML for use with other addons). There may be other HDT packs with their own XML files as well, but I don't know about those because I only use Naturalistic and your own physics setup from YA.

[Bad Dog]

As I say, the UUNP body has a separate labia+pussy that somewhat duplicates the pussy in the base body. I expanded it to give the puffier appearance of the concept art above. Probably yes, the shader settings are different from the body and that's part of the difference. 

 

I'll probably be able to release this for trial in a few days. I need to make sure _0 and _1 are both working and clean up a bit.

[Blaze69]

9 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

As I say, the UUNP body has a separate labia+pussy that somewhat duplicates the pussy in the base body. I expanded it to give the puffier appearance of the concept art above. Probably yes, the shader settings are different from the body and that's part of the difference. 

Oh, okay. Yeah, just checked the nif and seems like it does have different shader settings, so you can try setting them to the same value as the rest of the body and see if it blends better then. You may still have to edit the specular a bit, though, but should work otherwise.

 

Also, I guess this means you only edited the UUNP Special texture itself, right? So the only thing needed to get it to work with standard/non-edited Special bodies is to paste the stock Special texture over your edited one, then.

9 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I'll probably be able to release this for trial in a few days. I need to make sure _0 and _1 are both working and clean up a bit.

Neat. Didn't mean to rush it or anything, I was just curious. Looking forward to it.

[Bad Dog]

Not sure what you're asking about the textures because I'm not sure what the difference is between UUNP Special and Special. I did edit the pussy part of the texture to bring the fur onto the labia. 

[Blaze69]

Just now, Bad Dog said:

Not sure what you're asking about the textures because I'm not sure what the difference is between UUNP Special and Special. I did edit the pussy part of the texture to bring the fur onto the labia. 

They are the same, I should probably have clarified that, lol . Anyway, what I was asking was: if I go to the "pussy part of the texture" as you say it and paste the default one that for example all YA female textures have over the Cellan one, then the Cellan textures will work fine with a non-Cellan-edited UUNP Special body, right? I think the last part of your post answers my question already (so yes).

 

I'm certainly going to give that custom body a try, but I'll eventually want to have the same body for female Cellans and the other races so the armor/clothing does match the naked body, and that's why I asked.

[Bad Dog]

Oh. Right. Yes, use the standard pussy on the cellan texture. I'll probably make this body an option since people seem to care about their variant of the female bodies. 

 

(and why don't people do the same with male bodies? I know about SAM and the bodybuilder option, but they aren't popular and most people are happy with default SOS.)

[Blaze69]

14 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

(and why don't people do the same with male bodies? I know about SAM and the bodybuilder option, but they aren't popular and most people are happy with default SOS.)

Well, to be honest, the Bodybuilder option in SOS doesn't have any support at all outside of the few armor conversions in the Revealing Armors mod (which were done by VectorPlexus himself so they don't count as far as "3rd party support"). Also chances are people don't like it; I for one I'm certainly not a fan of the "I've got muscles on my muscles!" steroid junkie/bodybuilder look.

 

As for SAM, well... I don't think is a problem of popularity per-se, because AFAIK people do use it (I've got some requests to make the shark race mod and my modern clothing mods compatible with SAM). It does have its flaws, like for example IIRC it's incompatible with the latest version of NiOverride/RaceMenu (though that could have been solved already). But the main deterrent is Vector's EULA itself, which I think basically states you have to get Vector's personal approval before you can post anything SAM based or SAM related and also forces you to upload it to his website only, and nowhere else.

[CatterHatter]

20 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Oh. Right. Yes, use the standard pussy on the cellan texture. I'll probably make this body an option since people seem to care about their variant of the female bodies. 

 

(and why don't people do the same with male bodies? I know about SAM and the bodybuilder option, but they aren't popular and most people are happy with default SOS.)

Ah man, this is great! Thanks GDelscribe for requesting and conceptualizing, Bad Dog for making it happen, and Blaze69 for all your input and helping things along. I love to see things come together and this being nearly a fully finished custom race is exciting! The Cellan race is neat. I will definitely be trying this out.

 

@Bad Dog I really want to see more variation on the males. Though, it does help you can customize the Player character with RaceMenu. Would just like to see NPCs with more bodytypes without having to edit them manually. I'd use SAM if it were compatible with SoS. I like the SoS base bodies and schlong variations too much to switch. Let alone many armors and other mods try to be compatible with SoS over SAM.

 

@Blaze69, thank you so much for sticking it out with your Selachii race. I currently have it in my game. I came across the "lover's tent." Nice touch with the journal and all. <3

I also ran into the female NPC. Looking for the male one. I'm assuming he's at the College of Winterhold? Can't wait to get him to join me!

[Bad Dog]

Okay I let myself get distracted a bit by Kaidan, charmer that he is, but I did some more work on the ladies. Proof and positive:

 

Spoiler

Yes, those are cum stains on her thighs. Don't judge her.

 

 

And in action:

 

Oops, I forgot I was supposed to be showing off the pussy. I just thought that was a charming pose, actually.

 

Don't worry about the grey face on the guard, that's just something wonky in my setup.

 

Here's the pussy:

The pussy. Look at the pussy.

 

And some guard's-eye shots:

 

I'll post a test kit in a few hours, aedra willing.

[GDelscribe]

A+ I love it this looks rad as hell

[Bad Dog]

...or not. The gods do not smile.

 

I'm still having problems with vertex orders.

 

So I only have _1 version of the hands working so I imported into OS and exported into obj and imported into blender and made _0 and exported to obj and imported to OS and exported to nif and loaded up in Skyrim and got scrambled eggs at intermediate weights. So I said fukkit and went back to my old method that has worked for literally years and exported _0 and _1 from blender and got scrambled eggs. So I looked more closely and it turns out I'm getting 3 partitions for the hands and I don't know why. There are 3 meshes, but I always got two partitions before. So I fucked with that for a while and got nowhere. And I *cannot* figure out why my old methods aren't working anymore.

 

Meanwhile I discovered the UUNP body I've been using (which is up as Bad Dog EZ HDT) has body meshes where _0 and _1 weights are the same and I don't know how that happened. I assume when I did the BS thing I only exported one mesh or something and copied it over. So now I have to go find a working UUNP _0 and _1 and that stuff has always given me brain rot. 

 

And the male feet are still buggered, when I load them in OS they are compressed (probably 10x1) in the  X direction. And I don't know why that's happening either. I was going to just re-fit the female feet, which are fine, at least they seem fine but since my body isn't changing weights between _0 and _1 I can't really tell--and now that I think about it, that can't be right because that's how I knew I had to create _0 hands, because they didn't fit the body when I changed the weight to 0, so something got buggered in the body just today. Anyway since I can't reliably convert _1 to _0 I have no idea if I can refit the female feet to the male body.

 

So everything sucks and I'm going to go play with Kaidan for a while who never does this kind of thing to me. I'll look at the otters again tomorrow.

[Blaze69]

3 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

[...]

I recently had a similar problem with a custom mesh and "ghost" partitions (among other things) that made it crash and stuff, but I managed to fix it and get the mesh to behave ingame. If you want you can send me the _1 nif and the _0 OBJ and I could try to fix it for you as well.

 

Likewise, just tell me which UUNP preset shape you want and I'll send you the proper meshes for that.

[Bad Dog]

I don't know from UNNP presets. If you want to just send me some good ones, I'll use them. The concept art suggests bodacious rather than skinny.

 

I think the extra partitions aren't actually wrong. They identify left hand, right hand, and claws. I just don't understand why they are now all of a sudden being created. Hmm. Running through an obj file might get rid of a bunch of cruft. I'll try that.

[Blaze69]

6 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I don't know from UNNP presets. If you want to just send me some good ones, I'll use them. The concept art suggests bodacious rather than skinny.

Okay, I'll PM you the meshes for a few presets so you can choose the one you prefer.

 

Still, I would also like to know @GDelscribe's thoughts on this, since that's where the original idea came from, lol.

 

If you have any experience with UUNP/Bodyslide and/or think there is any preset that would fit the race as the default female body for those that choose Bad Dog's custom option with otter-like bits, it would be good to know. Just as an example, and going for "bodacious" as BD said, what do you think of the body shape from these pictures I posted in the YA thread (in the spoiler)?

[GDelscribe]

Sorry for not making larger posts lately. Due to stupid reasons (mainly weather) ive had internet issues that im still waiting for repairs on so my connection is spotty at best ahaha. I actually do have a preferred preset but I cant for the life of me remember the name. 

 

I think it was a J or a V name. I dunno. Anyway anything thats more pear shaped, heavier towards the bottom and lighter towards the top. Wide hips and a nicr ass are always damn good.