Halstrom Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 With all the issues in trying to use Body by Race and other such mods I was wondering should Sexout offer the choice Races for the Player or non-generic NPC's. perhaps that would give Sexout mods the control required at times at the requirement of making some Plugins incompatible though. I was thinking perhaps Sexout should create a Player race so custom bodies could be easier to implement without effecting Vanilla. We could then make Cass BnB & Veronica Type3M or whatever. Maybe this should be in SexoutNG itself rather than SCR as it chooses the bodies to equip for sex. I'm not sure if this may make animations also easier. Thoughts on the subject or is it just a crazy idea from someone who doesn't have that much detailed knowledge on how bodies work?
prideslayer Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It's interesting, I'm not opposed to doing this, but the question is how do we get the meshes installed in the right place? I could have the fomod (or an extender function) copy your existing body mesh to the custom race dir, but that wouldn't pick up new changes, and there's no way for me to know which body is installed. If I gave others here a body mesh (in whatever format you want it, except NIF, haha) could you get it glued to the skeleton and exported as a NIF? If so it may just be time for us to roll our own body mesh -- I have baselines I can start from. I suppose before we expend the effort it's important to know just what this gains us (is it for custom NPCs in mods, or actually for the player?).
Halstrom Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 It's interesting' date=' I'm not opposed to doing this, but the question is how do we get the meshes installed in the right place? I could have the fomod (or an extender function) copy your existing body mesh to the custom race dir, but that wouldn't pick up new changes, and there's no way for me to know which body is installed. If I gave others here a body mesh (in whatever format you want it, except NIF, haha) could you get it glued to the skeleton and exported as a NIF? If so it may just be time for us to roll our own body mesh -- I have baselines I can start from. I suppose before we expend the effort it's important to know just what this gains us (is it for custom NPCs in mods, or actually for the player?).[/quote'] Well I was more thinking that we could have different bodies for different actors a bit like our own version of Body by Race but more integrated. I was thinking we require the nude bodies of each type then do something like I have in SCR now where the player could set their body by basically setting the race, with a race for each body type, then have preset files for Veronica Cass & other major NPC's, it should also be done for male bodies too I suppose. If people don't select an alternative body it would just go to the default one installed whether that be vanilla, type 3 or whatever. I'm not sure what other benifits it could have for us in animations, skeleton selection etc, maybe I don't know enough about what I'm talking about to do more than just inspire an idea or 2
prideslayer Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Well the issue is that none of the other ones install as a race, by default, so we'd need custom install instructions for all of them.. "download type6, unzip it to a temp dir, copy the files to *new non-default directory*" etc. I haven't looked to confirm, but if all the custom player races go in one place, I could create an NX function to detect and list them or something perhaps..
DoctaSax Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I tend to use custom races if I want PC or companions to have a different body than my normal replacer. Definitely doable, but I'm not sure Sexout ought to be doing it. For one thing, having all this pre-arranged narrows down the customizability - sure you can point to a femaleupperbody.nif somewhere, but what about neat textures to go with, or hand/head meshes & texs? Surely you wouldn't use vanilla, but redistributing them from other mods gets iffy. So you'll either end up having to tell people to copy some stuff to those folders manually anyway, or end up with a huge package (ahem!) full of stuff people don't intend to use most of the time. Then there's eyes & hair: whatever beauty pack you've installed needs to be referred to in your custom race if they're to work together, and if it refers to stuff you don't have installed you get crashes... Lots of what ifs to take into account. IMO, this is really roll-your-own territory (if I can take a drag from Pride's pipe here), and people might benefit more from a good tutorial on how to skin one up for personal use than getting some pre-rolled.
prideslayer Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I think it definitely has the potential to get out of hand fast, and the last thing I want is for us to end up in 'oblivion land' where you need 500 race mods installed to use 4 lovers plugins because this one used hairs from 3 different mods, that one used bodies or clothes from 4 others, another one thought his mod just wasn't complete without new eyes, etc. Ideally the custom NPCs in all the sexout mods (or any mod for that matter) would be custom races using vanilla assets -- that players can then replace textures/meshes for as you've described. If that's the case, I have no problem including a few generic custom races in sexout for modders to use.. by 'a few' I mean a fair selection, as they'd be pretty easy to do I think. Individual users would have everything work fine vanilla, but those that want to could replace bodies/textures as they already do for the few selections available to them in vanilla.
Halstrom Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 I think it definitely has the potential to get out of hand fast' date=' and the last thing I want is for us to end up in 'oblivion land' where you need 500 race mods installed to use 4 lovers plugins because this one used hairs from 3 different mods, that one used bodies or clothes from 4 others, another one thought his mod just wasn't complete without new eyes, etc. Ideally the custom NPCs in all the sexout mods (or any mod for that matter) would be custom races using vanilla assets -- that players can then replace textures/meshes for as you've described. If that's the case, I have no problem including a few generic custom races in sexout for modders to use.. by 'a few' I mean a fair selection, as they'd be pretty easy to do I think. Individual users would have everything work fine vanilla, but those that want to could replace bodies/textures as they already do for the few selections available to them in vanilla.[/quote'] By the sounds of things that may well be the better way to go with Player Race, Cass Race, Type3 Race, BnB Race, SuperMutant Race, Android Race etc How would that then work with Skin textures, would there need to be Type3Asian, TypeVGhoul Race etc? And is it better in Sexout or SCR?
prideslayer Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 The more I think about this, the more I think it should be left entirely up to the player. If you want a custom look for given characters in your mod, then create a (vanilla) race for them, and include instructions on how to replace their bodies and clothes manually -- provide alternate downloads for them if you want, like type6 clothes for people who want to install the type6 mesh into that races directory.
Halstrom Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 I've added an option in MCM to select the BodyType but it's only a flag that tells us what the player has set the types too, maily so I can choose which pregnant outfits/nude bodies to equip currently it's just Type3 and some 3M & BnB. I can't do the nude body because they just overwrite the Vanilla of course. If they were each in different folders we could do more and have different bodies for different companions and races, but teaching a newb how to install new folders could be a nightmare I guess. We also need to consider future possibilities like the Breast resizing skeleton I guess too.
prideslayer Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 If there is anything in there sexout is going to have to know about, we're gonna be in ismodloaded/buildref hell unless we *do* move it out of SCR and into sexout, but right now I'm not convinced there's anything I can do with bodytype knowledge. Breast scaling is a skeleton and animation (morph) file issue, it will work with any body as long as you have the skeleton and morphs. If it looks 'wrong' with a given body, the only way to fix it is by adjusting the body mesh itself. Textures.. other than to provide a default bodysuit, I see no reason to include any.. What are your thoughts with all this? I'm kinda "not getting it" when it comes to the "why" you're trying to support different bodies, or "how" you're supporting them (what you're doing with the information). I've had a request (that I said I will honor) to allow the user to select if they have the default/breezes body or roberts body, but that's so they can have different default alignment offsets. I think pretty much all the female bodies are the same size though, being type3 based, and don't need that kind of support.
Halstrom Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 Well my issue is currently I have pregnant bodies & outfits of different bodytypes, and trying to keep them the same as the non pregnant body where possible. Perhaps this is as far as we should go due to the complexity of things, I know you mentioned Type6M too, that's another lot of Pregnant bodies to add And are Nessa's TypeV & TypeN worth throwing into the fray, I'm not sure what will work with the bouncing skeletons and what won't. I can't pick the difference between some of the bodies myself, we probably only need 3 variations. It would be simpler if the bodies listed their Bust,Waist&Butt measurements And Male bodies is another can of worms, but not for me
prideslayer Posted July 22, 2012 Posted July 22, 2012 Everything will work with the bouncing skeleton. The body won't bounce if it's not weight painted for the skeleton, but the purpose of the skeleton is to work with any body. Keeping all the different meshes straight for the bodies is a nightmare I'm sure, I guess I am not seeing how having different races in the ESM would make that any easier on you?
Halstrom Posted July 22, 2012 Author Posted July 22, 2012 Everything will work with the bouncing skeleton. The body won't bounce if it's not weight painted for the skeleton' date=' but the purpose of the skeleton is to work with any body. Keeping all the different meshes straight for the bodies is a nightmare I'm sure, I guess I am not seeing how having different races in the ESM would make that any easier on you?[/quote'] I'm not sure there is any easy way of doing it for anyone. I'm in no rush to do this, just poking the idea for discussions sake and to undrstand the issues better
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