[TS3] Discussion about releasing the latest update of L666 animations.

[Guest Redabyss]

Alright, wanted to say... I had a very bad and stressful day yesterday (my car got stolen...), and I kind of jumped at the gun. 

I'm willing to continue this thread, but there are some conditions that you have to keep in mind.

 

1) Please, keep the speculation on L666 at MINIMUM, only for the sake of a "yes/no" argument. Please be respectful.

2) I started this thread in a very innocent way. I should have seen the potential of flame, but if you look at the old OP, you can see it started in a very innocent manner. Please no flame, that includes accusing.

 

Please remember this thread exists with the SOLE purpose of discussing the possibility of L666 never coming back, and her last work. We don't want to make her or other people feel unconfortable. Ok?

[Dalon44]

Alright, wanted to say... I had a very bad and stressful day yesterday (my car got stolen...), and I kind of jumped at the gun. 

I'm willing to continue this thread, but there are some conditions that you have to keep in mind.

 

1) Please, keep the speculation on L666 at MINIMUM, only for the sake of a "yes/no" argument. Please be respectful.

2) I started this thread in a very innocent way. I should have seen the potential of flame, but if you look at the old OP, you can see it started in a very innocent manner. Please no flame, that includes accusing.

 

Please remember this thread exists with the SOLE purpose of discussing the possibility of L666 never coming back, and her last work. We don't want to make her or other people feel unconfortable. Ok?

I understand why post was started and why it is a shame her work is at this time lost to most of us ...but when someone votes no you counter which causes the issue you are speaking of ...i would love to have her work.but at same time want to respect her as a modder ..so this issue is torn inside us all...if site admin says its ok for you to post those here then post them...better this site release them than another site with another person who has those animations ...yes I have thought about this deeply ...peace be to all here this site is the best on net as far as I am concerned .

[Guest Redabyss]

We're now even (15-15). Holy damn... seems almost a political election XD

[FlynT]

Let me uneven it  

I vote No. It's L666's content and even though i would love to have it i think we should respect it. It would be kinda unfair if we would share it without permission and be it at least for the reason that making animations for the sims isn't as easy as for many other games. 

[Dalon44]

ok hows this for an option post them and if you have problem with it ...don't download them ...solves all things in this thread 

[Guest Redabyss]

ok hows this for an option post them and if you have problem with it ...don't download them ...solves all things in this thread 

Hm well... either cases, we would release it without the consent of the author, so it's not like that much is gonna change anyway.

Fact is... voting and establishing it as a community, rather than one single individual that will be marked as the infamous guy who released the package without consent, evens a little the things.

I mean... one thing is that a jerk randomly decides to release the package, another thing is releasing it after a long debate and an actual voting. This way, the package is released in a very civil way, albeit a little unmoral.

That's why I would like to keep things as civil as possible.

[fordirty]

I don't really intend to contribute to this discussion, but do you think it would be easier to add a poll to this topic? That way you don't have to keep count.

[Guest Redabyss]

I don't really intend to contribute to this discussion, but do you think it would be easier to add a poll to this topic? That way you don't have to keep count.

I thought about it, but I have no idea on how to do that :/

[fordirty]

 

I don't really intend to contribute to this discussion, but do you think it would be easier to add a poll to this topic? That way you don't have to keep count.

I thought about it, but I have no idea on how to do that :/

 

 

I believe you go to 'edit' on your first post, then on the top right of the screen, you'll see something about 'manage poll'.

 

[Guest Redabyss]

 

 

I don't really intend to contribute to this discussion, but do you think it would be easier to add a poll to this topic? That way you don't have to keep count.

I thought about it, but I have no idea on how to do that :/

 

 

I believe you go to 'edit' on your first post, then on the top right of the screen, you'll see something about 'manage poll'.

 

 

... *self facepalm*

Too late to do that :/

[Mariana Soprano]

Maybe someone of LL could help redabyss to edit the first page? Thanks for the term "poll" jemem0!

[Jace5]

After going through the arguments and the purpose of patreon in relation to LL etc I'll vote yea. If she comes back all this shit will be null and void so no biggie. Ideally everything is cool with her, she's de-tilted, rebooted her patreon and then rolls back through here with a bunch of sims 4 and sims 3 anims just in time for Christmas lol. I can dream 

[nitromon]

Yeah, you guys are asking for it now.

Need to brush up on US patent law and EA TOS.

When it was free, it was legal. Patreon system was already treading the grey area. As long as it was "donation," it was deemed legal. But if you make it a business, where there is a contractual transation, meaning $$ for product, then it becomes completely illegal. EA has a whole staff who do nothing all day but surf the web looking for people violating their patent rights. They google all day for search words or might even have an account on here already.

I'm a modder myself, for various games. As a modder, I know we would like to think we have the ownership of our mods. But legally, we don't. The companies of the games we mod have the expressive rights. That's how the world works and it IS fair, just imagine when the shoe is on the other foot.

You cannot make clothings for Barbie or Cabbage Patch Kids and sell it on Ebay without expressive written consent of their perspective parent company. Likewise you are not permitted to make mods for any EA games and selling them without EA's expressive written consent.

Violation of US patent law carries a min of $100,000 fine and up to 5 yrs in prison.


 

[eclectica]

I vote yes. This site is for free mods. You can't go posting about your stuff on free sites, then force people to pay for them. Getting them early for "donations" is, itself, pretty shady imo, but having people who paid get something that's supposed to be free, while people who didn't pay dip out pushes it into a serious breach of the rules of this site. It's not disrespectful to release her stuff if she has taken her money and run. If she wants to, she could return at any time and fulfill her obligation to release her animations (and after accepting money for "donations" and releasing it to those people, she IS obligated to provide it freely or be in violation of EAs terms). The only option is she comes back and releases it herself in a timely fashion, or someone else does it for her. This isn't about respect for an artist, this is about not using this site to make money and then taking off.

[Guest Redabyss]

Will the final majority be positive, should we release the package on the first February, instead of March? There are already lots of votes, and I don't think this thread will keep being useful that long.

Plus... there's this whole other pair of hands to worry about:

 

 

 

Yeah, you guys are asking for it now.

Need to brush up on US patent law and EA TOS.

When it was free, it was legal. Patreon system was already treading the grey area. As long as it was "donation," it was deemed legal. But if you make it a business, where there is a contractual transation, meaning $$ for product, then it becomes completely illegal. EA has a whole staff who do nothing all day but surf the web looking for people violating their patent rights. They google all day for search words or might even have an account on here already.

I'm a modder myself, for various games. As a modder, I know we would like to think we have the ownership of our mods. But legally, we don't. The companies of the games we mod have the expressive rights. That's how the world works and it IS fair, just imagine when the shoe is on the other foot.

You cannot make clothings for Barbie or Cabbage Patch Kids and sell it on Ebay without expressive written consent of their perspective parent company. Likewise you are not permitted to make mods for any EA games and selling them without EA's expressive written consent.

Violation of US patent law carries a min of $100,000 fine and up to 5 yrs in prison.

You know... I believe everything you say, and shall we release the package it would be, under certain facets, a way to help L666 herself.

But I don't think that people are taking this stuff very seriously, as it never happened to anyone. Someone here even said that talking about EA rules is lame... but if this legal stuff happens to her and we didn't release the package for mere morality, well... the end result would be that we didn't release the package because of some "stupid" morality, and L666 in serious problems :/

Just... imagine this scenario. EA discovers all this and has rights to fine L666. What did we do? Voting and talking about morality, while knowing about possible consequences that we didn't took seriously...

 

Anyway, now we're 17-16 (17 being pro release).

[windpl]

Will the final majority be positive, should we release the package on the first February, instead of March? There are already lots of votes, and I don't think this thread will keep being useful that long.

Plus... there's this whole other pair of hands to worry about:

 

 

 

Yeah, you guys are asking for it now.

 

Need to brush up on US patent law and EA TOS.

 

When it was free, it was legal. Patreon system was already treading the grey area. As long as it was "donation," it was deemed legal. But if you make it a business, where there is a contractual transation, meaning $$ for product, then it becomes completely illegal. EA has a whole staff who do nothing all day but surf the web looking for people violating their patent rights. They google all day for search words or might even have an account on here already.

 

I'm a modder myself, for various games. As a modder, I know we would like to think we have the ownership of our mods. But legally, we don't. The companies of the games we mod have the expressive rights. That's how the world works and it IS fair, just imagine when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

You cannot make clothings for Barbie or Cabbage Patch Kids and sell it on Ebay without expressive written consent of their perspective parent company. Likewise you are not permitted to make mods for any EA games and selling them without EA's expressive written consent.

 

Violation of US patent law carries a min of $100,000 fine and up to 5 yrs in prison.

You know... I believe everything you say, and shall we release the package it would be, under certain facets, a way to help L666 herself.

But I don't think that people are taking this stuff very seriously, as it never happened to anyone. Someone here even said that talking about EA rules is lame... but if this legal stuff happens to her and we didn't release the package for mere morality, well... the end result would be that we didn't release the package because of some "stupid" morality, and L666 in serious problems :/

Just... imagine this scenario. EA discovers all this and has rights to fine L666. What did we do? Voting and talking about morality, while knowing about possible consequences that we didn't took seriously...

 

Anyway, now we're 17-16 (17 being pro release).

 

EA can do shit about patreon, pantreon is a support platform not selling front. You can't sell there anything, you can charge for update - for continuous work. So that quote is invalid.

 

You can post her work anywhere, no one will (can't)  stop you.

But modder only have his/her name, and his/her followers can show him/her respect by not distributing anything without his/her permission. That's why so many of us are thinking that such topic was started too soon.

 

I'm not saying it shouldn't be distributed ever, you just act to fast. I know that you have good intentions but we owe her some respect.

[Guest Redabyss]

 

Will the final majority be positive, should we release the package on the first February, instead of March? There are already lots of votes, and I don't think this thread will keep being useful that long.

Plus... there's this whole other pair of hands to worry about:

 

 

 

Yeah, you guys are asking for it now.

 

Need to brush up on US patent law and EA TOS.

 

When it was free, it was legal. Patreon system was already treading the grey area. As long as it was "donation," it was deemed legal. But if you make it a business, where there is a contractual transation, meaning $$ for product, then it becomes completely illegal. EA has a whole staff who do nothing all day but surf the web looking for people violating their patent rights. They google all day for search words or might even have an account on here already.

 

I'm a modder myself, for various games. As a modder, I know we would like to think we have the ownership of our mods. But legally, we don't. The companies of the games we mod have the expressive rights. That's how the world works and it IS fair, just imagine when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

You cannot make clothings for Barbie or Cabbage Patch Kids and sell it on Ebay without expressive written consent of their perspective parent company. Likewise you are not permitted to make mods for any EA games and selling them without EA's expressive written consent.

 

Violation of US patent law carries a min of $100,000 fine and up to 5 yrs in prison.

You know... I believe everything you say, and shall we release the package it would be, under certain facets, a way to help L666 herself.

But I don't think that people are taking this stuff very seriously, as it never happened to anyone. Someone here even said that talking about EA rules is lame... but if this legal stuff happens to her and we didn't release the package for mere morality, well... the end result would be that we didn't release the package because of some "stupid" morality, and L666 in serious problems :/

Just... imagine this scenario. EA discovers all this and has rights to fine L666. What did we do? Voting and talking about morality, while knowing about possible consequences that we didn't took seriously...

 

Anyway, now we're 17-16 (17 being pro release).

 

EA can do shit about patreon, pantreon is a support platform not selling front. You can't sell there anything, you can charge for update - for continuous work. So that quote is invalid.

 

You can post her work anywhere, no one will (can't)  stop you.

But modder only have his/her name, and his/her followers can show him/her respect by not distributing anything without his/her permission. That's why so many of us are thinking that such topic was started too soon.

 

I'm not saying it shouldn't be distributed ever, you just act to fast. I know that you have good intentions but we owe her some respect.

 

 

I completely agree with you. In fact, you can see I disagreed with "just release" the package. I'm also keep stating that we have to respect L666.

Furthermore, I agree that this thread was started too soon, but again it became much more serious and controversial than I ever expected it would be. 

I started it as a "oh guys what do we do about that last L666 expansion that now no one could have?", just wanting to point it out... and look how it turned out.

You say I'm too fast, but the original question was much more innocent.

Just look at it:

 

 

So... it's no news that L666's Patreon page was closed, making her latest update completely unavailable for common LL users, and even patrons who weren't able to download it in time were forced to ask around to get it.

Many people already talked about this issue, and I figured we should address the problem properly.

Since the November update is now old news for our ex patrons, I was thinking about making a release of the last release anyway if she doesn't come back in, say, another month (not by my responsability, we'll organize together).

 

You may say I shouldn't have opened Pandora's box - and, in fact, under certain facets, I regret it, and I'm continuing this thread as also a responsability.

I can't just bail out. I started it, I have to keep it going.

Yet, I'm never again opening Pandora's box on LL, now I'm kind of scared of doing it.

Also, by stating that I'm "too fast" I think you're attributing complete responsability to me... yet I don't think it completely is.

 

This thread became serious because there are clashing point of views, people claming risks left and right and whatnot... few people suggested the idea that the thread was started too soon (you said "many", yet I didn't saw that many).

 

Also, me and other people can believe you as much as any guy support the thesis of a legal risk.

What if these thesis are still right? One could think that Patreon would never erase a page... but, in fact, it happened.

I'm just saying that, in my opinion, one shouldn't understimate legal risks.

 

Finally, I'm kind of considering the possibility of just asking an admin/moderator what to do. This whole issue is becoming too huge for just users.

[DoctaSax]

Deciding to release somebody's mod on/via LL without their permission is simply not up to a vote at all. It's not allowed, and I'd like to request that the poll in the OP be removed.

 

I realize there are some valid points about patrons and free users not getting access to the latest release due to the patreon page falling through, and indeed can agree with the sentiment that the longer that release remains unavailable to non-paying (and even paying) fans, the more we're starting to look at de facto 'paywalled' content. Even so, when the situation becomes untenable - let's assume we'll grant the author some time still to sort things out - our reaction is never going to be "then release the whole thing without the author's consent".

[Guest Redabyss]

Deciding to release somebody's mod on/via LL without their permission is simply not up to a vote at all. It's not allowed, and I'd like to request that the poll in the OP be removed.

 

I realize there are some valid points about patrons and free users not getting access to the latest release due to the patreon page falling through, and indeed can agree with the sentiment that the longer that release remains unavailable to non-paying (and even paying) fans, the more we're starting to look at de facto 'paywalled' content. Even so, when the situation becomes untenable - let's assume we'll grant the author some time still to sort things out - our reaction is never going to be "then release the whole thing without the author's consent".

Will do gladly and right away

At this point, I assume the thread should be closed?

 

EDIT: I asked to close the thread. I didn't think about moderation before because there's no specific rule, in LL, concerning this kind of situation, but the word of the moderation is definitive, in my opinion.

So no last package release.

Hopefully this thread will at least serve as a precedent for similiar situations, in the future

[DoctaSax]

Closed by OP's request.