[Skyrim] Thoughts about load order

[GregorSamsa]

[Deleted - as reaction of community showed the thought that were articulated aren't welcome]

 

And I really have no reason to quarrel with a community I want to be part of.

 

 

[Cock Sucker]

I'm always impressed how frankly people post their load order here. They must be under great pressure to do so.

 

 

And a good behavior of those who ask for load order would be to give a reason why they ask someone to post his/her load order.

 

Shure there are bugs related to load order. But there's loot to prevent most of them and for the rest load order will mostly not cause chrashes but malfunction of certain mods affected by other mods. And If dependencies are missing your mod managers will tell. As dependencies are recorded in the esm and easily can be read. So the possibility of dependencies remaining 'undiscovered' by those programs is zero. 

 

To my little expierience most of the bugs discussed here aren't related to the loads order at the end. That's not because there were few bugs. That's because the tools to identify them became quite good during the years. And for the few cases where those tools fail there might be a reason to post your load order in public.

 

 

to be honest I think your over thinking the issue, when/if I post my LO if there's "something" questionable I wouldn't add it and I think most if not all would do the same.

 

plus showing a load order might show stuff you may need, ie I've seen people's load order's without upto date patches or are running older mods that are or maybe incompatable with the current mods they have installed.

 

or even people moan and bitch about a specific mod that's not working for them when they have a mod that is/has been known to cause issues with other mods

[spoonsinger]

Mind showing a load order, regardless of how sometimes it's not actually applicable, does show a bit of commitment on the part of the person with the problem in getting a resolution to their problem. It's generally better to try and answer a question for them, rather than for the person who just do a post with a "It's broken, fix it, bla bla bla" attitude.

[yatol]

To my little expierience most of the bugs discussed here aren't related to the loads order at the end. That's not because there were few bugs. That's because the tools to identify them became quite good during the years. And for the few cases where those tools fail there might be a reason to post your load order in public.

 

what are those tools you are talking about?

 

loot just allow to get to the main menu by putting masters above the esp that have them as maste

don't know wrye bash patch thing but i doubt letting a script taking care of that is a good idea

they don't understand anything to papyrus logs, it's to check the game is doing what you want it to do, looking at that for crashs is stupid

it's the same for those crash dump, the ones that are posting some in the how to debug ctd topic, who was able to fix a crash with that?

and let's not forget the ones that are giving the killing blow to their save with savegamecleaner or things like that (it's not because something is broken it's safe to delete it)

 

i forgot something?

 

what the point of that topic anyway?

 

 

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go ahead, abuse my load order outside of this community

go tell the world yatol is using sexlab in skyrim

oh wait, my name isn't yatol, in fact you don't know anything about me...

[GregorSamsa]

 

go ahead, abuse my load order outside of this community

go tell the world yatol is using sexlab in skyrim

oh wait, my name isn't yatol, in fact you don't know anything about me...

 

 

Did I give you any reason to make this a personal issue? You seem to be upset - but I can't detect why.

 

Did you feel some kind of pressure by reading my words? Did I make you think I want to give you rules how you should behave?

 

Maybe you like explain?

[yatol]

explain what? didn't you said above you could my personality from my load order?

 

then you know this will be my last post in that useless topic because won't waste more of my time with that crap

[GregorSamsa]

Come on - shurely I can't read from your load order why you are upset at the moment. It's obvious you want to compromise me with your comments. But why?  What did I do to you?

[DurtyNelly]

I'm always impressed how frankly people post their load order here. They must be under great pressure to do so.

 

For me it's like open the wardrobe to the public or maybe more - at least me, I can read much of the personallty out of the installed mods, their combination. There must be 10.000 or more mods out there and the posters show me the 100, 200 they choose. The greatness of skyrim modding offers the posibility to overhaul the game completely and give it a new 'sense'. So load orders are a highly personalized thing, showing the scope of modding.

 

 

Not that I judge peole for having installed certain mods. Well, exactly: that's their privacy. But I'm concered they show information here that easily could be abused outside of this community.

 

I think it depends on the person. If they feel they have something to be ashamed of, than maybe they would feel uncomfortable posting their load order. You seem to feel uncomfortable with the idea, and there is nothing wrong with that. It's your right to keep you LO private, just as it's their right to show it.    

 

Maybe it's because I'm old and got over the "shame" of my kinks years ago, but I really do not care what people think. They can take my load order and post it on Westboro's website and I'd cackle.

 

Saying that you can tell someone's personality by their load order is a pretty big call. It suggests that their kink or preferences in a video game is 100% who they are and that is just not true. You might be able to tell what they're into when it comes to their kinky Skyrim, but you can't tell who they are as a person.       

[GregorSamsa]

 

Saying that you can tell someone's personality by their load order is a pretty big call. It suggests that their kink or preferences in a video game is 100% who they are and that is just not true. You might be able to tell what they're into when it comes to their kinky Skyrim, but you can't tell who they are as a person.       

 

 

Well, maybe I delete this sentence. In my opinion you are right, for most people games and real life are different things. Most people watch movies where the hero shoots every bad guy down and they enjoy it when all the bad guys are killed. Me too. But for most people that doesn't mean they will copy this attiude/behavior and shoot down every bad guy in real life. There is no such correspondance between fiction and real life, even if people argue there was. Most of the time it isn't that way.

 

It would be fatuous to think someone who uses slavery mods is a sadist in real life. Regarding games most of us are perverts, regarding real life most of us are not. 

 

What I meant is much more subtile. There are attidudes imprinted much deeper than those game related things and you will tend to copy them. For example social behavior, social competence, things you are used to since childhood. Certain things we will tend to repeat in gaming.

 

But at the end it doesn't matter. It's not that it has any importance how good I can match your personality.

 

Let me give you an example.

 

There is a colleague at work that hates you and thibk of some payback. and he finds out your active on SexLab and he finds a a load order you posted.

 

And now he tells to other colleagues what a pervert you are.

 

doesn't matter if you are or not and what the word means and if you match the meaning. He will abuase the information to make a 'construction'. You - yourself - you might think this manic guy don't know nothing about me.

 

But what does it count? Maybe you are right and the whole word don't know nothing about you.

 

At the end only this picture counts - the picture other people are drawing of you. You maybe you for yourself. but the public person is only a picture.

 

This is what I meant. You can make a picture of somebody from its mod list.

 

If this picture is true or false nobody cares except of you.

 

For me, personally, 'Lady Di' is the most impressive example for this phenomenon. Who knows who she really was, who knows her real personality? At the end the only important thing was -people had material for their fantasies. Their draw their picture of her. She is someone that exists only in pictures. Millions of pictures.

 

Don't know, if I explain that very well.

 

Regarding this, she's probably the most abused 'personality' in the world. People make everything of her - a saint, a whore - whatever you want.

 

That may be the point. That your download order can be abused to create a picture of you: 'the incredible perverted skyrim modder'.

 

And what I meant - try to avoid material that can be abused to make pictures of you. not that I believe the picture I make of you will match you. that's totally not the point.

 

Nobody cares if this picture matches you as the only one who knows if this picture matches you for real is you - yourself.

 

But who cares? In public counts only the picture - not who you really are.

[DurtyNelly]

 

For example social behavior, social competence, things you are used to since childhood. Certain things we will tend to repeat in gaming.

 

I was raised a conservative, Christian. I play a heathen sadist in Skyrim.

 

 

At the end only this picture counts - the picture other people are drawing of you.

 

It only counts if you believe it counts, i.e. if you care what the co-worker and the people he tells thinks of you.

 

I'll give you a little real life example. I'm ex military. When in my 20's I lived in the base dorms. My suite mate (the person you share your bathroom with) was a really religions girl and a bit of a nosy bitch. She didn't like me. She spent a lot of time (I gather considering what happened) trying to bring me down. I didn't know, of course, until I was standing in front of my commander, my first shirt and base CO and being accused of being a "sexual deviant" by this chick. She told them that she had overheard me saying that I liked to be choked during sex and that I wanted men to beat me. Totally not true. I'm a Dom, not a sub, but she was pretty clueless about any kind of sex that wasn't Victorian-style missionary. I also gather that she might have heard BDSM type language through the bathroom door when I was talking with a friend, looked up what it was and assumed I was a sub because, hey, the whole world seems to think that women are just naturally submissive or some shit.

 

They asked me if it was true and I honestly could say, "No, that is 100% not true." Chick blew UP and said that I was lying and that the regulations stated that any kind of "deviant sexual behavior" was to be punished. This is true. When I was in the military 5,000 years ago, there were regulations about sexual behavior. I asked the CO if I could please speak. He agreed. The three of them seemed pretty amused by the whole thing. I told them that regulation also stipulates there be evidence (photographs or video) that such an infraction had occurred." I turned to her and asked, "Do you have any evidence?" She didn't because it never happened. They told her that they were going to move her to another dorm and for her to leave me alone.

 

For the next 4 months until she was posted to another base, this chick told everyone that she could that I was a freak of nature and should be kicked out of the military for being a pervert. The WHOLE base knew about it. I'd walk into the chow hall and people would stare at me. I'd go to the gym and people would damn near fall off their treadmills rubber necking. There were rumors that I had done all kinds of crap that I hadn't. My sub was on the same base and he was hearing all kinds of nonsense from his male friends. He asked me if me could tell them it wasn't true. I told him absolutely NOT.

 

Do you know why? Because I could give two shits what people think about me. Human beings spend far too much time worrying about what other human beings think of them. The only thing that annoyed me during that time was the idiots that came up to me and tried to talk to me because they thought I was some kind of crazed masochistic sex slave. They left with a different impression, I can assure you.

 

The picture that REALLY counts, is the one you have of YOURSELF. What some random dude or chick on the internet, or in your town thinks doesn't matter. That is what I've been trying to say. People who do not know you, are not close to you, do not matter. They are no one, so why should you care what kind of "snapshot" they have of you?

[GregorSamsa]

 

to be honest I think your over thinking the issue, when/if I post my LO if there's "something" questionable I wouldn't add it and I think most if not all would do the same.

 

 

 

 My suite mate (the person you share your bathroom with) was a really religions girl and a bit of a nosy bitch. She didn't like me. She spent a lot of time (I gather considering what happened) trying to bring me down. I didn't know, of course, until I was standing in front of my commander, my first shirt and base CO and being accused of being a "sexual deviant" by this chick. She told them that she had overheard me saying that I liked to be choked during sex and that I wanted men to beat me.

 

 

Reading this - for a moment I had to think what would have been if the girl would have taken a list your load order from her pocket and said: "Look what a pervert - that are her mods from skyrim!"

 

Most probably your commander would have responded: "This is what from what?"

 

So maybe, yes - I' worring to much. As one don't really need your load order from a game to accuse you. This can be done always - from out of nothing.

 

So, after reading this, have too agree. The 'offending-potential' of a mod list might not be as high as I thought initially. It has only this potential for moralizers. And normally they have influence only as long as they have a certain entertainment value. I think that was the point for the people around - this girl had a certain entertainment value for them by running around and telling 'dirty storys'. But when things become really serious - to trial - it's not that the voice of moralizers outmatch the voice of rationalism.

 

And therefore I have to agree that a 'dirty mod list' may be something like this girl - a "much ado about nothing".

[D_ManXX2]

By not supplying your load order you will only shoot yourself in your foot. And waste the community allot of time identifying the problem. if you are not willing to supply the needed info dont expect any help back that is my 4 cent back..

 

community will just force users to go to this thread and deal with there own problems: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/8534-please-read-before-posting-here/

 

That way no once time is wasted.

[DurtyNelly]

 

Reading this - for a moment I had to think what would have been if the girl would have taken a list your load order from her pocket and said: "Look what a pervert - that are her mods from skyrim!"

 

Most probably your commander would have responded: "This is what from what?"

 

The list would have been connected to some person on the internet named DurtyNelly, not me. This was also in 1997, so ... You seem to be trying awfully hard to "win" this argument. There is no winning or losing a disagreement like this, Gregor, because how you feel about the topic will depend very much on whether or not you're ashamed of your kinks.

 

Do you know why yatol got so upset with you? Because you're not the first person who has come on here and tried to make people feel like they should be ashamed of what they like. Whether that was your intention or not, that is what you're doing. You're telling people that they shouldn't even share a load order because just that small bit of information could label them as a freak to the public.

 

I met one of my close gaming friends on here, because he was feeling a bit of shame over using adult mods and wrote a post about his struggle. Most people were basically, "Who cares! You shouldn't be ashamed!", but there is always that one person it seems. A guy told him that he SHOULD be ashamed and that we all SHOULD because we were freaks, basically, but in more colorful words. I told that guy he was an idiot and PMd the OP to tell him not to listen to him. We're still friends.

 

When you are in a community like this one, or a real kink community out in the real world, you have to take care of each other. We're like a family. How the general public sees us is already bad enough, but hearing that kind of labeling and criticism from one of our own... well ... that's just special.    

 

 

 

So, after reading this, have too agree. The 'offending-potential' of a mod list might not be as high as I thought initially. It has only this potential for moralizers. And normally they have influence only as long as they have a certain entertainment value. 

 

Yes. Exactly. Who cares what puritanical assholes like that think, anyway.   

 

 

 

 

And therefore I have to agree that a 'dirty mod list' may be something like this girl - a "much ado about nothing".

 

Good. Because D_Man is right. When you're having issues, load order can be an important piece of the CTD puzzle. There are instances when it is the sole cause of CTDs. If you're new and refuse to share your LO, sometimes there's nothing more experienced people can do to help you. So you'll basically be shit out of luck, because you're worried about people snagging your LO and blasting it all over the internet.

 

Trust me. No one gives a shit about some random person's Skyrim load order. They're way too busy discussing Kim K's ass or some other brainless crap.   

[GregorSamsa]

 

Do you know why yatol got so upset with you? Because you're not the first person who has come on here and tried to make people feel like they should be ashamed of what they like. Whether that was your intention or not, that is what you're doing. You're telling people that they shouldn't even share a load order because just that small bit of their setup could label them as a freak to the public.

 

What makes you think I try that people feel ashamed? I'm posting here my thoughts as frankly as this was my own living room - we're practically sharing the same sofa when we discuss here. Now I make people feeling ashamed of the sofa I'm sitting next to them? No, I can't buy that.

 

Maybe we have a diferent view on this as for me my sexuality, my peferences, the things that make me horny - that's my privacy. People should enjoy their sexuality. But me, I can enjoy it far better, if there's no one in my back while I'm wanking who's shaking his head about my behavior.

 

And the best way to achieve this - in my opinion - is to keep public away from my sexuality. And these are my concerns, my worries about posting things in public.

 

I got tired of this discussion - it's all a demonstration of that what I was talking about. I shared my thoughts and immediatly I get public pressure on those thoughts.

 

You can read it in this thread - the way public opinion puts pressure on the individual. And with sexuality it's the same.

 

I'm not talking about beeing ashamed, not at all. But keep your sexuality as private as possible. That's the only chance to not have it manipulated by other peoples opinion.

 

Look at you - how we like to be moral teachers to each others ... educators, advisors. If you want peace of mind, if you want your sexuality beeing something delightfull - try to keep them all out.

 

And those, who post  here to accuse me - just to raise hell without any valid thought - don't you think they exactly thrying this: make me feel ashamed of my opinion, blame me in public, make a pervet out of me?

 

How funny.

 

Man, on this website you can get more preaching than in St. Peters Basilica. Just open your mouth and have a 'non standard opinion'. Only difference is attitute. But it isn't that moral eagerness on sexlab was less manipulative than in vatican palace.

[DurtyNelly]

 

What makes you think I try that people feel ashamed? I'm posting here my thoughts as frankly as this was my own living room - we're practically sharing the same sofa when we discuss here. Now I make people feeling ashamed of the sofa I'm sitting next to them? No, I can't buy that.

 

Maybe we have a diferent view on this as for me my sexuality, my peferences, the things that make me horny - that's my privacy. People should enjoy their sexuality. But me, I can enjoy it far better, if there's no one in my back while I'm wanking who's shaking his head about my behavior.

 

And the best way to achieve this - in my opinion - is to keep public away from my sexuality. And these are my concerns, my worries about posting things in public.

 

I'm not saying your intention was to shame people. I think the opposite, in fact. I think that you're just unaware that you might be doing it unintentionally and was explaining why you were getting an aggressive response.

 

If that is how you wish to deal with it, then that is your own business. However, when you post on a forum like this you need to be prepared for opinions other then your own. I am personally of the opinion that what others think should not matter. That is the way I look at it. You have your own opinion, which is 100% okay. I never said you couldn't look at it the way you are, in fact, I have said in several places during our conversion that you have a right to feel about the topic however you please.  

 

We're having a discussion. We disagree. No big deal.     

 

 

 

I got tired of this discussion - it's all a demonstration of that what I was talking about. I shared my thoughts and immediatly I get public pressure on those thoughts.

 

Not everyone is going to agree with you 100% of the time. Be prepared for a difference of opinion no matter what the topic is.

 

 

 

Look at you - how we like to be moral teachers to each others ... educators, advisors. If you want peace of mind, if you want your sexuality beeing something delightfull - try to keep them all out.

 

Again, If you didn't want other opinions why did you even post this thread? You asked. I told you how I feel and explained why others might feel upset by your views when they did get upset. I have tried to explain the best way I can in a respectful manner and even gave examples from my personal life so you might better understand where I'm coming from.

[D_ManXX2]

 

 

Do you know why yatol got so upset with you? Because you're not the first person who has come on here and tried to make people feel like they should be ashamed of what they like. Whether that was your intention or not, that is what you're doing. You're telling people that they shouldn't even share a load order because just that small bit of their setup could label them as a freak to the public.

 

What makes you think I try that people feel ashamed? I'm posting here my thoughts as frankly as this was my own living room - we're practically sharing the same sofa when we discuss here. Now I make people feeling ashamed of the sofa I'm sitting next to them? No, I can't buy that.

 

Maybe we have a diferent view on this as for me my sexuality, my peferences, the things that make me horny - that's my privacy. People should enjoy their sexuality. But me, I can enjoy it far better, if there's no one in my back while I'm wanking who's shaking his head about my behavior.

 

And the best way to achieve this - in my opinion - is to keep public away from my sexuality. And these are my concerns, my worries about posting things in public.

 

I got tired of this discussion - it's all a demonstration of that what I was talking about. I shared my thoughts and immediatly I get public pressure on those thoughts.

 

You can read it in this thread - the way public opinion puts pressure on the individual. And with sexuality it's the same.

 

I'm not talking about beeing ashamed, not at all. But keep your sexuality as private as possible. That's the only chance to not have it manipulated by other peoples opinion.

 

Look at you - how we like to be moral teachers to each others ... educators, advisors. If you want peace of mind, if you want your sexuality beeing something delightfull - try to keep them all out.

 

And those, who post  here to accuse me - just to raise hell without any valid thought - don't you think they exactly thrying this: make me feel ashamed of my opinion, blame me in public, make a pervet out of me?

 

How funny.

 

Man, on this website you can get more preaching than in St. Peters Basilica. Just open your mouth and have a 'non standard opinion'. Only difference is attitute. But it isn't that moral eagerness on sexlab was less manipulative than in vatican palace.

 

 

if you have such a problem with this, you should have read the forum sticky: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/8534-please-read-before-posting-here/ It says supply your load order. no excuse for this. you want help with mods you need to give as much info as possible or else no help.

 

 

How funny.

 

Man, on this website you can get more preaching than in St. Peters Basilica. Just open your mouth and have a 'non standard opinion'. Only difference is attitute. But it isn't that moral eagerness on sexlab was less manipulative than in vatican palace.

 

Now you beginning to sound more like troll then actually solve something.

[GregorSamsa]

 

 

if you have such a problem with this, you should have read the forum sticky: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/8534-please-read-before-posting-here/ It says supply your load order. no excuse for this. you want help with mods you need to give as much info as possible or else no help.

You mean, given as a rule from a site - it shouldn't be discussed or thought over anymore?

 

If someone states to post your credit card number is a rule, you wouldn't rethink it because it's a rule?

 

Can't understand this argument. Asking for private data on the net - shouldn't normal behavior be to ask yourself: why? And then: how is my privat data handled if I hand it over?

 

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm doing wrong to question and I shouldn't care. After all - this argument is valid: it's not my business what other people do here.

 

To give them some peace of mind I'll delete the entry post.

 

To make this such a  'case' as if I had interest to make people 'ashamed' and 'trolling' - and many other accuses in a few days - this really wasn't my intend. I was interested to discuss the matter, not to find myself in the middle.

[GregorSamsa]

And finally I discovered - I posted this in the 'technical support' forum?

 

Really? My apologizes - totally wrong place. I thought I've been posting in the general discussion forum. Man, yes - this really doesn't belong here. Now I understand a little better ...