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Daguy

Steam Activation Fears...

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Do we know what Bethesda are doing about the game yet?

 

I'm hoping we will play-from-disc like Morrowing, Oblivion and FO3. New Vegas is techically a Obsidian production so i'm hoping it was the odd one out for Steam.

 

Thing is, I like Steam. It makes keeping track of games easy, no need for a CD, and the have awesome offers. For most games i'll gladly use it. But not mah Elder Scrolls and Fallout.

 

Ever since I bought New Vegas, collectors edition at that, i've never once felt like I actually own the game. It feels like a perma-rental. All it would take was for Steam to go bust (and it CAN happen, nothing is too big to fail) and all my games go bye-bye. Using Stema 'Offline' has also never been ideal and has problems so your pretty much forced to be online with Steam also.

 

All in all it just doesn't work for games that I want to mod to Oblivion and back and drop thousand sof hours into over a half-a-decade like I have with Oblivion. It always just feels... wrong.

 

I may have gone through three different platforms and four Oblivion discs and they may be getting pricey these days; but its something i'm willing to do for the knowledge that in ten years time i'll be able to plug in my 'ancient' Windows 7 pc, dig out my Oblivion and mods disc, and play. Same way I can dig out my old X-Wing floppies and play them any time.

 

My only concern about Skyrim, except a few truly minor gripes (one-piece clothing for example), is this. I really don;t want it to be Steam activated. It won't affect whether I buy it or anything but it will make me sad if it is. I've not seen any word of this yet however, so maintaining hope that somehow Bethesda may not go along with Steam.

 

Wow, I wasn't expecting to vent quite this much. I was going to make the post a paragraph if that. Guess I needed to let that out. It was all spurred on by installing Old World Blues for NV, waiting for the game to auto-patch, then finding out the patch had broken NVSE and I needed to get the new one, and reading just how many automatic patches have killed the game. Mostly an Obsidian problem? Yes. Automatic patching being a sign of just how little you control your Steam purchases? Just as much a Yes.

 

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We'll have to see. Several people absolutely declined on FO3NV because they won't use steam at all.

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Fallout NV requires Steam?

 

Anyway Skyrim is being developed for platformers too so i would imagine there will be a disk version. In fact, to date, i have not seen a steam version of Skyrim available or advertised i know because i have been waiting for it.

 

I am a chronic pack rat so i lose all disks or more often one disk out of a collection (the play disk). As such Steam really caters to me. Sure, it is a pain to re-download games when you flub up and have to reinstall or the developer flubs up. Sure, there is no refund option (i am looking at YOU Civ V/ Cities XL 2011). Overall though i really enjoy steam and modding isn't that much more of a challenge.

 

 

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Yes, you HAVE to create a Steam Account to be able to license it. No internet connection, no play. If your O/S isn't supported by steam, you can't play.

 

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Err, I think you got this a bit wrong. Once you activate the game in Steam online, you can play it without having to be on the net. There is a checkbox specifically to save offline data to allow you to play offline.

 

And yes, Fallout New Vegas does need Steam to activate but not play. At least this is better than Assassins Creed or other games that need online connection to play... >>

 

EDIT: And I have Steam on my laptop and I can play at LANs where there is no net. All my games are playable without the net so I'm guessing you don't actually have Steam...

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I've always found the ability to play offline as very prone to bugs. Many a time i've lost my net due to a cable being cut off yonder and its not willing to load the games.

 

The details aside are fairly pointless. Not everyone likes or wants to support Steam as the standard for PC gaming. As I say in my OP I don't mind it for some games but the Elder Scrolls and Fallout are close to my heart and I find the system bothersome. Despite the low price I have never bought Oblivion off of Steam even as I burn through discs.

 

On Skyrim I'm still hoping that while you might be able to buy the game from Steam, for those who like it that way, i'm also hoping those of us who like the traditional ways are thought off too. Discs that become effectively redundant once you activate the game on Steam annoy me greatly. It's almost wasteful. Sure you can reinstall the base game; but with New Vegas for example all the patches and DLC are autodownloaded afterwards.

 

At the end of the day however Steam is a damn good service and i'll freely admit my stance is a hard one to defend. However, i'm not claiming to want Steam gone or anything, just the choice of whether the games I play use it.

 

Look back at Elder Scrolls: Battlespire. It's multiplayer function, once you manage to get the game running, is no longer functional through Gamespy. They stopped supporting it. You can still play it through Kali; but this is just a multiplayer portion of a mostly single-player game. Now lets look at *any* company. They eventually fail or are bought out. They get trageted by viruses or corperate sabotage. Now, what happens to all your games on Steam when something tragic happens to Valve? Its a account-based online-service that could cease to exist in any of a dozen situations.

 

Half-Life 2? I'd be iritated, but play it on a console. Left 4 Dead? Sad, but i've played it to death. But my Elder Scrolls games (and Fallout to a lesser extent) I sort of consider like old books on my shelf or like my old D&D editions that I can pull out and blow the dust off. I want to always be able to pull them out and play them when the mood hits me. I certainly don't want the Sword of Damocles that is 'our company is too big to fail' (*cough*Banks*cough*) hanging over my game collection.

 

Supposedly in the event that Valve closes its doors and shuts down Steam they have stated taht they would release a patch that would disable forced online activation of games you own (inputting the CD Key would be enough or something) but thats shakey ground. It relies on some guy who just found out his time might be better job searching sitting down and writing said patch, and it wouldn't be simple. And, even going under the assumption said patch may already exist in a vault somewhere, it doesn't help with things that you don't own the disc for such as patches, DLC, or whole games that you bought through the online store. You can't re-download them from a company that doesn't exist.

 

I know i'm ranting. Just trying to make myself clear so people can understand where i'm coming from.

 

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Even if it worked flawlessly off line, there is STILL the issue that you can only use the o/s's Steam support. You could play FO33NV on Windows2000 or linux, IF steam would let you.

 

No one chooses my O/S for me!!!

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I've always found the ability to play offline as very prone to bugs. Many a time i've lost my net due to a cable being cut off yonder and its not willing to load the games.

 

I haven't had any issues in regards to the offline play nor a lot of the majority of gamers out there. I suppose the possible reason is that it just doesn't work for you for some reason' date=' most likely your connection (And yes, I do have problems with Steam when it doesn't like to play nice but I do keep a backup of my Steam settings on my external). Not every software is guaranteed to work with every configuration out there.

 

The details aside are fairly pointless. Not everyone likes or wants to support Steam as the standard for PC gaming. As I say in my OP I don't mind it for some games but the Elder Scrolls and Fallout are close to my heart and I find the system bothersome. Despite the low price I have never bought Oblivion off of Steam even as I burn through discs.

 

On Skyrim I'm still hoping that while you might be able to buy the game from Steam, for those who like it that way, i'm also hoping those of us who like the traditional ways are thought off too. Discs that become effectively redundant once you activate the game on Steam annoy me greatly. It's almost wasteful. Sure you can reinstall the base game; but with New Vegas for example all the patches and DLC are autodownloaded afterwards.

 

This I agree. However, you should still be given a choice in the matter. I do prefer Steam over a retail copy due the ease and as well as lack of problems in regards to Steam. In terms of troubleshooting ease, having a disc is actually easier than dealing with a digital copy as any problems, you just uninstall and reinstall. However, the autopatching and as well as easy distribution of DLCs does make Steam more appealing in this regard. And if you're decently tech-savvy, then you're probably more inclined to use Steam. For the majority, it's probably one headache after another as Steam is quite technical to begin with.

 

At the end of the day however Steam is a damn good service and i'll freely admit my stance is a hard one to defend. However' date=' i'm not claiming to want Steam gone or anything, just the choice of whether the games I play use it.

 

Supposedly in the event that Valve closes its doors and shuts down Steam they have stated taht they would release a patch that would disable forced online activation of games you own (inputting the CD Key would be enough or something) but thats shakey ground. It relies on some guy who just found out his time might be better job searching sitting down and writing said patch, and it wouldn't be simple. And, even going under the assumption said patch may already exist in a vault somewhere, it doesn't help with things that you don't own the disc for such as patches, DLC, or whole games that you bought through the online store. You can't re-download them from a company that doesn't exist.

[/quote']

 

True. There are other means though. Look at Troika and Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines. That was a great game except for the massive amount of bugs. In this case, the community still had the tools to still continually develop and finish the product. So in this case, if Valve do shut up shop, then as long as the tools and the framework is still there, then someone can potentially still work on the game.

 

Look at GOG.com. They stock a lot of the older games without restrictions as well so there are other businesses/business models that can potentially fulfil Steam if it does go bust.

 

I know i'm ranting. Just trying to make myself clear so people can understand where i'm coming from.

 

Opinions should be freely shared and discussed. I like this forum as I can discuss it and have a logical explanation back. And believe me' date=' there are worse ranters out there :)

 

Even if it worked flawlessly off line, there is STILL the issue that you can only use the o/s's Steam support. You could play FO33NV on Windows2000 or linux, IF steam would let you.

 

No one chooses my O/S for me!!!

 

No one is forcing you here. It is still your choice whether or not you upgrade your OS. Sure, you have support for your games in this OS but what about all of the other bits in-between such as support or technical help? They'll be gone as they're moving on. Progress will force you one way or another.

 

In regards to Linux, Wine is a perfectly good example of your issue. It can support Steam and some games out of the box but it still need constant support and add-ons in order to get it to run. If that add-on doesn't work or isn't supported, you're plum out of luck. What do you do when that happens? Let me ask you this, what will it takes to move on?

 

As a quality assurance officer in real life, I know that nothing is perfect really. And choices are just as flawed.

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actually? if i can say somthing?

i never liked STEAM, and thank god there are ways around it. i don't want to wait half an hour for the damn thing to download it's update before i can play total war. i usually get cracked .exe's (no, i still need the game) to just circumvent STEAM alltogether. i'm not interested in their offers and it's just another compony wanting to make money. sry i sound like i'm venting but i absolutely despise it when i have to look at advertisements before i get to do what i want. like youtube? yes, now you have to see the new 50 cent album preview before you can listen to your pop country music.

heh. it's been forever since i've been on STEAM so idk if they figured out somthing smart by now. but yeah, like i said. just look for cracked .exe's for the STEAM games to just go around it

 

EDIT- i know i kinda sound shadey when i'm talking about it, so i'm just going to say this. i DO have an account on STEAM and i DO actually own the games. but i DO not want to keep seeing it, so i get ways around STEAM.

-peace

Taco

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I for one love Steam, it works, their sales are awesome, I'd rather support valve than any big box retail company, I'm never not on the internet so offline play is a none issue, though even if I wasn't always connected offline play works well enough.

 

 

Even if it worked flawlessly off line' date=' there is STILL the issue that you can only use the o/s's Steam support. You could play FO33NV on Windows2000 or linux, IF steam would let you.

 

No one chooses my O/S for me!!!

[/quote']

 

You'd be surprised how well steam runs on Linux under Wine, I've run it before to great success, and official Linux support is coming. If your using Windows 2000 on the other hand, well then you have other issues, time for an upgrade already. Steam is hardly the only thing that would have issues with such an old OS anyway.

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Too Giant Post for me to read, but It's Kinda confirmed it's not Steam, but Games 4 windows. (I don't think they'll use both, right?)

 

Here you can see: The left box, G4W. ;)

Elder-Scrolls-Skyrim-Pre-Order-Map.jpg

 

Official Image, Bethesda Tweeted it themselves a Few months ago. ;)

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Too Giant Post for me to read' date=' but It's Kinda confirmed it's not Steam, but Games 4 windows. (I don't think they'll use both, right?)

 

Here you can see: The left box, G4W. ;)

 

Official Image, Bethesda Tweeted it themselves a Few months ago. ;)

[/quote']

 

I think that's just Games for Windows as opposed to Games for Windows Live, confusing I know, but what do you expect from Microsoft? :P Fallout: NV has the GFW logo and is Steamworks.

 

I like Steam a lot, so Skyrim being Steamworks doesn't bother me, but if it did, then use a no CD crack like the old days. You own the game, so who cares what you do with it right?

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I still don't get why they would make it steam-exclusive,I mean: What's the point? :dodgy:

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I still don't get why they would make it steam-exclusive' date='I mean: What's the point? :dodgy:

[/quote']

 

For the Steamworks DRM. It's kind of the last acceptable form of DRM that doesn't set people into a rage because people already generally like Steam.

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Yeah, But the Crackgroups can crack anything, They somehow got the sims 3 Pets already, even though it's not released until october yet.

 

...

*gets a breakthrough*

...

 

Though The Cracks Makes the game Ignore steam, But because people Like the Advantages Steam gives, (Patches,IM,Achievements, etc.) steam kinda forces a buy. Now I get it. >.<

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guess it depends who you are. but i heard mafia 2 got cracked the same time that STEAM got upgraded O.o so yeah. even if you keep it exclusivley on a disk (ie. no install) and make it online exclusive, it can still be cracked. why? all the crackers do is take it outta the .exe code.

 

but to kinda counter what fusrodah said, it's a good idea to keep the originonal file so you can install the updates from STEAM as they come out and then just get another crack to circumvent it. as for the achivements and IM, some of us just aren't online gamers. i prefer couch co-op over online anyday, so stuff like games for window live and xbox live (notice- both made by microsoft) i genrally ignore.

 

that said, cracks don't make it impossible to play online. i play online axis and allies even tho it's cracked (and cause i can't find my play disk to save my life). so generally it's-

 

fuck. i'm ranting.

-peace

Taco

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Too Giant Post for me to read' date=' but It's Kinda confirmed it's not Steam, but Games 4 windows. (I don't think they'll use both, right?)

 

Here you can see: The left box, G4W. ;)

[img']http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Elder-Scrolls-Skyrim-Pre-Order-Map.jpg[/img]

 

Official Image, Bethesda Tweeted it themselves a Few months ago. ;)

 

Oh for f*ck's sake. GFWL is the worst way to release DLCs. I can easily attest to that for Fallout 3...

 

Steam it is then.

 

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I can handle Steam, since I play Civ 5 and Fallout NV, but with one proviso, that is DOES NOT interfere with my pitiful attempts at modding it!

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I've modded New Vegas with no issues so I'm assuming Skyrim will be the same if loaded on Steam.

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GFWL is an atrocious mess. Not only is it hard to set up and use, but in Fallout 3 it interfered with the Fallout script extender.

It also installed the DLC in a roundabout stupid way unlike Steam which just puts the .esms and data in, you know, the data folder where it's supposed to go.

 

Trust me GFWL will make you beg for Steam.

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I just realized G4W doesn't necessarily mean G4WL =.=

Though My Fiend heard Todd Howard say it was on steam, Somewhere on an interview. He didn't like it either.

 

He didn't give me a link, so I can't kinda confirm if it's true, But if you take his word, It's steam.

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Most likely. While Obsidian developed New Vegas, Bethesda is still in charge of the commercial decisions and Steam seems to have worked out well for them.

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In the age of broadband and digital distribution, for smaller game publishers(read "not EA, Mircrosoft, or Sony"), a well established, broad reaching, and most importantly popular distribution framework like Steam will beat the production costs of discs and boxes every time. Unless they are already planning to be consoles only, any game in production that isn't taking into account compatibility with Steam distribution, is shooting itself in the foot. Valve did it right, first, and until someone dethrones them, which even Microsoft's lawyers couldn't pull that one off(GFWL contracts, etc..) they are the primary market for PC gaming.

 

Love it, hate it, doesn't matter, Steam delivers the product at the click of a button, which is what people want these days, so that is what companies are going to give them.

 

Now as far as the software side of running steam goes. I've never had troubles with it. These days I add non steam games to my Steam library just so I can still have the steam overlay and my friends list and all that, while playing. Heck I tried to get Windows Media Center to launch through Steam so I could chat while watching DVD's too. That one didn't work unfortunately. Any "modern" computer, i.e. something you can walk into a store and pick up, or assembled equivelent, should, be able to leave Steam idling in the system tray and see no performance loss/interuption of any sort. If your internet connection goes down, you just launch steam in offline mode, and carry on.

 

Steam seems to have become the Facebook of PC gaming. You don't have to empbrace it, but you can't escape it forever.

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Well, that Games For Windows logo gives me some small hope.

 

Being honest I never had a single problem with LIVE when it came to Fallout 3 and FOSE. Then again, I didn't come to FO3 on the PC (played console more during that year) until the GOTY was almost out. So I probobly just missed the problems.

 

I would actually like the choice between a Steam Version AND a Games For Windows (even LIVE).

 

I also don;t want to escape Steam. Like i've alreayd noted; I like Steam for most games. I just like not to have any sort of online activation or fuss with my Bethesda games.

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Online activation will be the norm sadly. Most of the games sold these days have some kind of activation or are kind enough not to have ti.

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