Optimizing Meshe's - What is Pyiffied?

[Guest]

OK,  I've merged a bunch of armor/clothing mods from here and other places so that I can give my self-created followers cool looking, sexy gear.

 

I've got these awesome Final Fantasy BB barmaid outfit meshes from somewhere but whenever an NPC wears them my FPS drops like crazy.

 

I tried opening the meshes up in NifScope and optimizing them but so far nothing has helped.

 

I've already optimized the textures and my rig is relatively new with a good graphics card.

 

I thought I saw some post about "Pyified" meshes or something.

 

What is that, how is it done, and will it even help?

[anubis]

It was PyFFI as Phython File Format Interface.

 

And yes it said it can optimized nif meshes although it didnt help much as i remember use it for FO3, turn out it was messed up my custom meshes. If i recall it wont work well for skinned meshes, so make a backup first.

[myuhinny]

PyFFI is part of blender and it is used to optimize mesh some of things it does is remove junk that shouldn't be in the nif was left in the nif or they removed something the wrong way from the nif. Many times the size of a nif will drop in size sometimes it won't affect it.

[fejeena]

I had a clothes Nif in my Crowning Isle clothes replacer ( Lady sexy, The Mod exists in different versions, E , F and DM cup )

Only one NPC wore these clothes in a indoor cell with many NPCs, so I thought the amount of NPC causes FPS drops.

But is was Lady sexy clothes.

 

Also the original riding gear in LoversHorse ride causes FPS drops.

 

Reason: too many Vertices

You can "fix" it with NifSkope.

-Remove Duplicate Vertices ( and first Snooth Normals)

Then you must rebuild the Skin partion.

-MakeSkinPartition ( ! that's a little bit tricky, you can mess up the whole Nif ! And it does not always work. One of the riding gear was not fixable.)

Then

-Update all TangentSpace.

 

With the Lady sexy clothes no more noticeable Frame drops.

[Guest]

I had a clothes Nif in my Crowning Isle clothes replacer ( Lady sexy, The Mod exists in different versions, E , F and DM cup )

Only one NPC wore these clothes in a indoor cell with many NPCs, so I thought the amount of NPC causes FPS drops.

But is was Lady sexy clothes.

 

Also the original riding gear in LoversHorse ride causes FPS drops.

 

Reason: too many Vertices

You can "fix" it with NifSkope.

-Remove Duplicate Vertices ( and first Snooth Normals)

Then you must rebuild the Skin partion.

-MakeSkinPartition ( ! that's a little bit tricky, you can mess up the whole Nif ! And it does not always work. One of the riding gear was not fixable.)

Then

-Update all TangentSpace.

 

With the Lady sexy clothes no more noticeable Frame drops.

Thanks for the tips!

 

I think I have those bad lady clothes also.  Mind shooting me those fixed meshes?  

 

I'll take a stab at fixing those Final Fantasy meshes myself and see how nasty it turns out.

 

Wish me luck!

[movomo]

PyFFI is a kind of general file interface. One of its built-in functionalities includes manipulating the .nif format. Additionally, it contains a script called "NifToaster" that optimizes .nif files. Technically niftoaster is not part of pyffi... it's more like a client of pyffi. But when people say pyffi, they usually refering to the niftoaster script. Blender nifscript is the same. They're "using" pyffi to read and write .nif files.

[varenne]

Some of the posts here are helpful. I'll now add my 2 cents worth.

 

Using NifSkope spells is the best approach to many Oblivion based meshes, and you're first level optimization. I've documented and posted on this numerous times, so do a search on my older posts, if at all interested. (I have done extensive testing and reporting on this; Oblivion ONLY!.)

 

PyFFI helps with some very or even extremely problematic NIF meshes where MOD/NIF authors didn't follow a standard build or output; deviations. If and when you may discover NIFs blowing up/vaporizing it may be time to use PyFFI first, then NifSkope spells.

 

You can install and setup PyFFI to run on one or multiple NIFs in a folder, with some limits. Review the documentation for that.

 

PyFFI is good when wanting to en masse optimize a bunch of NIF meshes, with some limits. Again, see my prior posts discussing and testing results, for Oblivion ONLY.

 

As fejeena pointed out, meshes with high vertices count will have a huge negative impact on FPS. Only solution there is to reduce V count, which requires additional 3D tools not yet mentioned.

[Guest]

Some of the posts here are helpful. I'll now add my 2 cents worth.

 

Using NifSkope spells is the best approach to many Oblivion based meshes, and you're first level optimization. I've documented and posted on this numerous times, so do a search on my older posts, if at all interested. (I have done extensive testing and reporting on this; Oblivion ONLY!.)

 

PyFFI helps with some very or even extremely problematic NIF meshes where MOD/NIF authors didn't follow a standard build or output; deviations. If and when you may discover NIFs blowing up/vaporizing it may be time to use PyFFI first, then NifSkope spells.

 

You can install and setup PyFFI to run on one or multiple NIFs in a folder, with some limits. Review the documentation for that.

 

PyFFI is good when wanting to en masse optimize a bunch of NIF meshes, with some limits. Again, see my prior posts discussing and testing results, for Oblivion ONLY.

 

As fejeena pointed out, meshes with high vertices count will have a huge negative impact on FPS. Only solution there is to reduce V count, which requires additional 3D tools not yet mentioned.

<Sigh>  It figures.  Well.....I can cut and paste blocks with the best of them in NifSkope, and do some very basic "add gloss" to the skin if I want it but that's the extent.  Blender is beyond my skill set, despite having downloaded it in the past and added all the recommended add-ons, etc. 

 

I'll be researching your posts because when I look at these Final Fantasy meshes they don't have any extra vertices and running spells on them doesn't change anything that I can tell.  I had read somewhere that meshes made from Daz3D are especially troublesome when being ported into Oblivion which is probably why I'm having similar trouble with the Anvil Mystery House armors.

 

Good thing I only care about the eye-candy there which is perfectly fine just where it stands and I don't need it to run around Tamriel with me.  After I gave them horny Succubi some Coolsims hair, we got along very nicely.   Those teeth are a bit worrisome in certain situations, but I tend to just grin and bare it anyway.  (No typo.)     

[varenne]

I don't bother with Blender either, way too time consuming and I get so distracted with it's features I often forget what it was I booted it up for in the first place.

 

As far as Daz3D, I don't recall if it has a minimize vertices count, but Poser does or did. I would often times run Daz3d meshes through Poser just for that reason. Maybe look for an older cheap copy of Poser. I wouldn't go back to far in versions though, depending on which O/S you are using. Plus, Poser is somewhat of a resource hog.

 

Some of the Anvil Mystery House armor/clothes meshes do have high vertices or poly counts, hence the FPS impact. There's a thread for that Author and set of MODs, I forget who started it, but I did post some of my optimized meshes in it too. If you have specific ones in mind post or PM me which ones and I can take a look if I've already reworked them.

 

Installing and setting up PyFFI is well worth the effort IMO. If I recall correctly it does provide info on vertices count, but I think NifSkope does too. (I'm away from my Oblivion PC at the moment so I can't check.) PyFFI was also instrumental in correcting many of Colourwheel's meshes and some for Anvil Bay Mystery House. Some of the ABMH armors I beat on for hours and couldn't improve them. But some of this was prior to gerra6's Stand-alone tools (vs. their Blender plugins), so maybe that could be another option to look into too. Depends on how motivated you are.

[myuhinny]

Daz3D Will always be problematic and more so on older computers mostly because the outfits/armors were not made for games like oblivion skyrim or fallout series and that is why they have such a high poly count as they were made for the Daz3D tool. You can only reduce the poly count so much once you hit that spot anything past that is going to make the armor/outfit start to look like shit. I have had some outfits that were well over 20k after I got done porting them to skyrim.

 

The more high poly things you get into one area the more it's going to affect you. I know for skyrim the more Daz3D stuff you have in your inventory the higher your chances start to get to crash while scrolling through the inventory looking for something to wear. It can also be the same along with getting lag if there are a bunch of people together wearing a lot of high poly items.

[Guest]

Daz3D Will always be problematic and more so on older computers mostly because the outfits/armors were not made for games like oblivion skyrim or fallout series and that is why they have such a high poly count as they were made for the Daz3D tool. You can only reduce the poly count so much once you hit that spot anything past that is going to make the armor/outfit start to look like shit. I have had some outfits that were well over 20k after I got done porting them to skyrim.

 

The more high poly things you get into one area the more it's going to affect you. I know for skyrim the more Daz3D stuff you have in your inventory the higher your chances start to get to crash while scrolling through the inventory looking for something to wear. It can also be the same along with getting lag if there are a bunch of people together wearing a lot of high poly items.

I feel you.

I don't bother with Blender either, way too time consuming and I get so distracted with it's features I often forget what it was I booted it up for in the first place.

 

As far as Daz3D, I don't recall if it has a minimize vertices count, but Poser does or did. I would often times run Daz3d meshes through Poser just for that reason. Maybe look for an older cheap copy of Poser. I wouldn't go back to far in versions though, depending on which O/S you are using. Plus, Poser is somewhat of a resource hog.

 

Some of the Anvil Mystery House armor/clothes meshes do have high vertices or poly counts, hence the FPS impact. There's a thread for that Author and set of MODs, I forget who started it, but I did post some of my optimized meshes in it too. If you have specific ones in mind post or PM me which ones and I can take a look if I've already reworked them.

 

Installing and setting up PyFFI is well worth the effort IMO. If I recall correctly it does provide info on vertices count, but I think NifSkope does too. (I'm away from my Oblivion PC at the moment so I can't check.) PyFFI was also instrumental in correcting many of Colourwheel's meshes and some for Anvil Bay Mystery House. Some of the ABMH armors I beat on for hours and couldn't improve them. But some of this was prior to gerra6's Stand-alone tools (vs. their Blender plugins), so maybe that could be another option to look into too. Depends on how motivated you are.

http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/20483/? - SAFE?

 

BTW, which PYTHON should I install to be able to PYFFI?  I've installed Python 3.5.1 and then went back to 2.7.1.1Amd64, and tried several times to install PyFFI-2.2.2.win32, which is the only one, so I guess I need to install a 32 bit version of Python, but WHICH one is best to install?

 

 

[myuhinny]

You don't want to use PyFFI on hairs it is not compatible with hair meshes you can find this info on one of it's pages. It might also not be good idea to do this to all files there is a post at the bottom of the 2nd to last page that states it but they couldn't remember where they saw it at if you do use this make sure to back up your stuff so that you can undo it if shit gets messed up.

[varenne]

Actually I've always used the one on sourceforge: Download PyFFI-2.2.2.win32.exe (1.5 MB) and better in case you also need to install Python. You can install all Python versions listed in the install setup and I recommend the 32-bit versions vs. 64-bit. It also includes the option to access PyFFI from your right-click menu.

 

Again, I think I documented the snot out of all of this in the Modders Resources or Technical forum. (I couldn't find it.)

 

No idea if any of these work on Windows 8 or 10, and do know some members have had issues running some of these older tools on Win10.

[Guest]

Actually I've always used the one on sourceforge: Download PyFFI-2.2.2.win32.exe (1.5 MB) and better in case you also need to install Python. You can install all Python versions listed in the install setup and I recommend the 32-bit versions vs. 64-bit. It also includes the option to access PyFFI from your right-click menu.

 

Again, I think I documented the snot out of all of this in the Modders Resources or Technical forum. (I couldn't find it.)

 

No idea if any of these work on Windows 8 or 10, and do know some members have had issues running some of these older tools on Win10.

Well, I got that automatic thing to work I guess, but it didn't change the meshes one bit.  Guess I'll try QSkope if that's the other way to do it.  Couldn't find any "how-to- posts" from you either.

 

Wanna regurgitate the basics for me?

[varenne]

Best thing to do at this point is post which meshes you're trying to improve. Some here may have either already tried or may have additional insight.

 

Qskope imo is a waste of time.

 

Tomorrow I'll repost my process. I just wrote all of this one-handed and left-handed since I'm busy eating my home cooked chicken wings and rice, with home grown mini bell peppers... 

[Guest]

Best thing to do at this point is post which meshes you tryin to improve. Some here may have either already tried or may have additional insight.

 

Qskope imo is a waste of time.

 

Tomorrow I'll repost my process. I just wrote all of this one-handed and left-handed since I'm busy eatin my home cooked chicken wings and rice, with home grown mini bell peppers... 

cool beans.  

 

Here is where they sit.  I know I downloaded them off of a link from LL.  Not even sure which one anymore because I've been doing a ton of merging.

[varenne]

First, my instances of these meshes were located in a slightly different location and folder: Oblivion\Data\meshes\mana\finalfantasy, so the textures will be also. You can either edit the NIFs to point to the right texture location OR add a new folder for mana\finalfantasy and copy the textures there.

 

 

 

 

 

The tops seemed to be a version of Double Melon, not sure about the lowers.

 

Okay then. The first 3 seemed okay when I ran them through my optimization process; nothing exploded in NifSkope.

 

The next 3 where not okay and had stuff outside of scene root. In many or most cases you can just use the Block | Crop to Branch.

 

 

 

 

 

But in this case they were an example of a NIF vaporizing when you try and run the Spell, Batch | Make All Skin Partitions, so they have to be run through PyFFI first. Doing this in many cases corrects NIF abnormalities. Once I did that I was able to go back and run my NifSkope optimization processing on them.

 

finalfantasy.7z

 

Short version of my optimization process

1. Open NIF in NifSkope and review for common abnormalities; stuff outside of scene root

2. Test using Block | Crop to Branch to fix, saving file after.

3. NifSkope Spells:

a) Optimize | Combine Properties and Remove Bogus Nodes

Batch | Update All Tangent Spaces (save file here before next spell!)

c) Batch | Make All Skin Partitions (This is where abnormal NIFs will blow up or vaporize, as these did. Use the last save and run them through PyFFI, then come back to this and the next spell.)

d) Batch | Update All MOPP Code

 

Optional Spells (To make the NIF structure more human readable)

1. Block | Sort By Name

2. Sanitize | Reorder Blocks

3. Sanitize | Reorder Link Arrays

 

It seems like a lot but once you adapt it to your style and method it does go fairly quickly. 

 

This does not in any way reduce high poly or vertices count. For that you need something like Blender, and as already pointed out, there are limits. At some point the reduction leads to the mesh looking like crap in game.

 

You'll need to test these in game as I have no idea which MOD uses them and their location. I'm absolutely & totally guessing, it may be from a Monstergirl MOD.

 

[Guest]

First, my instances of these meshes were located in a slightly different location and folder: Oblivion\Data\meshes\mana\finalfantasy, so the textures will be also. You can either edit the NIFs to point to the right texture location OR add a new folder for mana\finalfantasy and copy the textures there.

 

 

PyFFI_multi_file_Opt.jpg

 

 

 

The tops seemed to be a version of Double Melon, not sure about the lowers.

 

Okay then. The first 3 seemed okay when I ran them through my optimization process; nothing exploded in NifSkope.

 

The next 3 where not okay and had stuff outside of scene root. In many or most cases you can just use the Block | Crop to Branch.

 

 

fftop_b1.jpg

 

 

 

But in this case they were an example of a NIF vaporizing when you try and run the Spell, Batch | Make All Skin Partitions, so they have to be run through PyFFI first. Doing this in many cases corrects NIF abnormalities. Once I did that I was able to go back and run my NifSkope optimization processing on them.

 

finalfantasy.7z

 

Short version of my optimization process

1. Open NIF in NifSkope and review for common abnormalities; stuff outside of scene root

2. Test using Block | Crop to Branch to fix, saving file after.

3. NifSkope Spells:

a) Optimize | Combine Properties and Remove Bogus Nodes

Batch | Update All Tangent Spaces (save file here before next spell!)

c) Batch | Make All Skin Partitions (This is where abnormal NIFs will blow up or vaporize, as these did. Use the last save and run them through PyFFI, then come back to this and the next spell.)

d) Batch | Update All MOPP Code

 

Optional Spells (To make the NIF structure more human readable)

1. Block | Sort By Name

2. Sanitize | Reorder Blocks

3. Sanitize | Reorder Link Arrays

 

It seems like a lot but once you adapt it to your style and method it does go fairly quickly. 

 

This does not in any way reduce high poly or vertices count. For that you need something like Blender, and as already pointed out, there are limits. At some point the reduction leads to the mesh looking like crap in game.

 

You'll need to test these in game as I have no idea which MOD uses them and their location. I'm absolutely & totally guessing, it may be from a Monstergirl MOD.

Wow!  Thanks!  I'll test these out after I check those texture paths.