[Stellaris] Space Drow! :-)

[fishface60]

The

set_owner = ROOT

in the

init_effect

of the ringworld causes my game to crash.

 

Removing it doesn't appear to cause any problems, but I've never seen it work with it, so I don't know what it's meant to do.

[Nessa]

@fishface

 

Well that's wonky. I believe it's supposed to be there to ensure that a randomly generated civ gets set as the owner of the world. Maybe. It's in all the Paradox system initializers anyway. Or was. I haven't checked since 1.21.

But... I just did a test and I'm not getting a crash with the latest. I'll look later and see if I can just remove it. Maybe Paradox is messing around with more than I thought.

 

EDIT: OK, had a look. It's in all the ringworld setups for fallen empires. While it doesn't crash me (on 1.21), removing it doesn't seem to have any effect that I know of. Whether or not that means AI civs crash, no idea. But if it's working in your game without it, leave it out.   Best not to mess with something that works!

[Dark Thoughts]

Might be of interest ..? 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/4rmsle/plantoid_city_sets_found_in_game_files/

[Nessa]

OK, that was added in either 1.2 or 1.2.1, because I scoured that folder for city ideas. Looks like Paradox will be adding some kind of intelligent plant category in the future. Figures, how about some more attractive humans??? It's already stupid enough to have a talking mushroom. (I half expect Mario of Super Mario Bros fame to show up.) Now we get space-faring weeds?

 

Though... ... wait, a new city set means a new ship style too. Perhaps plant ships will be more attractive than their current offerings.   (Also, I'll check and see if there is an additional ship style already!)

Alrighty, just checked... no plant ships yet. I did notice different colored amoeba ship colors however. (Haven't seen any of them in game yet at least.)

 

Well... I hate to use the exact same city style for the Sidh, especially because if Paradox put it in, they'll likely use it in a new update. A retexture might be in order though. No more retextures! Mix and matching I think!

 

...

 

LOL! And... this is the drow thread!!! Oops.

 

Just as well, because I was thinking perhaps using this new city style in conjunction with others to create a truly unique Drow set. (Like the elves got!)

[Dark Thoughts]

Didn't wanted to confuse you sorry, this one was just the thread I kept opened up.

[Nessa]

Haha, confusing me is quite simple I assure you!

[Nessa]

U P D A T E

 

• Fixed some typos... somewhere...
• Major thing is the tweaking of the new home systems. With a vanilla system you have a size 16 homeworld plus a 14 to 18 world in a nearby system to colonize. So each Drow system now gets it's own neighbor with stuff in it. For the ringworld start, you get a bunch of rocks and one nuked planet. (This is my attempt to somewhat fix the mineral issue with ringworld starts. There should be some challenge with that start after all!) Eilistraeens now get a neighboring system with a small ideal planet for colonization. This puts the balance on par with vanilla home systems for Eilistraeens anyway.
  And.. they're both interesting. One is a trinary system with some.. interesting aspects. The other is a black hole with... stuff.   (Really, given that roughly half of real stars are binary or more, what the heck was Paradox thinking with a bunch of boring 1 star systems??)
• Oh yeah, and if you missed the 2.0 update from the new LL, that's there too.
   

[MCLovecraft]

Is there any way to prevent AI empires/pre-FTL civilizations from using the Drow template? I love the mod, but it gets pretty immersion breaking to run into 4 or 5 Drow empires every single game.

[fishface60]

Is there any way to prevent AI empires/pre-FTL civilizations from using the Drow template? I love the mod, but it gets pretty immersion breaking to run into 4 or 5 Drow empires every single game.

 

Not without making something else unpleasant.

 

It happens because when the game generates AI empires it selects a portrait group at random, then picks at random from within that group, so Elves are as likely to spawn as any kind of Mammal.

 

Moving the Elves into the Mammal portrait set would stop that having problems, but then it won't generate them with the right ship graphics, and only pre-scripted empires will have the right ship graphics.

 

This is something Paradox will need to deal with.

[Nessa]

What FishFace (great name!! ) said.

 

I did a little testing with moving the Drow into the Mammalian section. They do spawn -much- less (to the point of almost never running into them like humans), but there is the issue with custom ships and such. All the random Drow get stupid Mammilian cities and ships.

I have thought of a couple solutions....

• Only allow pre-scripted civs. Kind of kills the random fun though.
• Only pre-scripted civs AND explicitly create pre-FTL civs that are randomly inserted into any given galaxy. Might be the best solution as you still get "random" Drow encounters. The negative is the work involved. (Not too bad, but I'd have to test each random system.) The other negative is you won't (I think) get any fallen empire Drow. Actually you will still get them but they'll be quite rare.   But that could technically also be fixed by my creating explicit Drow fallen empires. But at that point I'm doing a lot of work that doesn't involve more clothing.   This may all be solved eventually by Paradox including some sort of way to limit spawning of specific race classes. (Or until somebody figures out a way!)

 

I may still try option 2 anyway. Currently I'm trying out making a custom pre-FTL civ for elves that spawns randomly in the galaxy. (Naturally with an interesting system!! )

 

Thanks to all this system initializer stuff, I could also pretty easily create binary, trinary, and more star systems randomly. But that's a bit beyond the scope of this. There are other mods that handle that at the moment. (Though I've tried none of them as yet.)

[Nessa]

OK... I think I've got a handle on what to do for the Drow/Elves taking over everything situation.

 

• Turn off randomization. This alone would limit Drow to the player or prescripted races. (Eilistraeens and the Tulshar would still show up unless the player picks one to play.) It also means no fallen empires, no pre-sentients, and no pre-FTL Drow.
• Add in systems randomly using rates I can control that have pre-sentients, pre-FTL, etc. This can be done via solar system initializers. I can throw in several random systems that add Drow in without going overboard like Stellaris will do. Also it means I can have some fun with the systems. Say hello to binary and trinary systems! (Also for elves I can have ringed worlds show up elsewhere.) I can also make an initializer for adding a Drow fallen empire. Rates could then be easily changes via editing a few lines at the top of each initializer. (In case the player wants to change the rates to suit their game better.)

I believe I can do this as an add-on mod. That way players that still want -total- randomness plus Drow (and/or elves) taking over everything can simply use the base mod.

 

Been doing some testing with created empires via initializers with the elves and the results are brutal. My first try I made the empire.... a "tad" overpowered.   About mid game we ran into them.....  they controlled half of the known galaxy. Took us out not long after the initial conversation. OUCH. That's more like a crisis than an empire! Definitely too much!

 

Anyway, for this new add-on idea I'll just add in pre-sentient, pre-FTL, and fallen empires randomly. Rates all changed in a text file. That should allow everybody to find their preferred mix of how many Drow/elves show up in a given game.

[Nessa]

OK, more testing!

 

With randomization turned on (like it is in the present version) there is......

 

• A 1 in 7 chance for a Drow: pre-sentient, pre-FTL, normal civ, AND fallen empire. This is why Drow take over the galaxy. (For contrast, to get a human there is a 1 in 6 chance of being Mammillian, on top of a 1 in 18 chance of picking the human appearance. Add in Drow and Elves and this chance gets reduced even more!)

 

So, I turned off randomization in a test and I created an additional fallen empire just like vanilla does. Except this time, it's only Drow. Now we have:

• A 1 in 4 chance of getting a Drow fallen empire. Yes, the chances for a Drow fallen empire have gone -up- significantly!

You see, there are only 3 fallen empire styles in vanilla. Add in a 4th, and we get Drow fallens much more often! Had I continued with my initial plan of adding several fallen styles, we'd have Drow taking over the fallen empires now instead of everywhere else.  

 

Now if I continue and add system initializers for the others, that would add a -few- pre-FTL, and pre-sentients. But we're still going to see mostly Drow fallen empires. If both the Drow and Elves take this approach, and you run both mods.... expect fallens to be mostly elvish.  

 

The deeper I get, the more problems arise it would appear. EIther that or... just maybe... Elves/Drow really do take over everywhere!!

 

 

[Dark Thoughts]

I would just put them into the Mammalian category, maybe even split the ship types up into a separate mod.

They already use random traits and government types anyway when they generate so I don't see the problem of them using random ship types either.

We can still save the premade empires again and set them to always spawn if we want them in the next game, or create even more variants if we want a lot of them.

 

Curious how Paradox is going to handle the plantoids though, I assume they come with a bunch of different portraits to avoid the same problem.

[Nessa]

Drow using ugly Mammilian ships!?   I'd rather put them in the Avian category. (Besides, somehow I bet Drow would get along with Admiral Chirpy. )

 

Probably... I won't do anything at all. Paradox might eventually do something to give us a little more control over spawning rates. In the meantime, for anybody that doesn't want Drow taking over, hop by the "Drow_species_classes.txt." file and add "randomized = no" under the Drow category. That will stop all randomization and leave only the two prescripted civs plus anything the player comes up with.

In the next update I'll add a comment section that explains things.

 

As for the ships... I'm currently tossing around the idea of converting the Elven ships over to black. I find I prefer the Elfy ships when playing Drow anyway. So maybe it's time for black versions. (Not too fond of Avian myself. Some of their ships are OK but WOW are those battleships UUUGGGGLYYYY! )

 

I'm actually not looking forward to the plant stuff. We already have talking mushrooms. I fear the next addition will be talking bananas.

[Dark Thoughts]

Or some flower lady with an inviting honeypot.

I think as a category it's fine, can't expect Paradox to do the kinky stuff. 

That's the job of the modding community.

[Nessa]

Given we already have a talking mushroom that... looks like a deformed guy's .......  I'm betting talking cucumbers.

 

However....  a spriggan race? (The good looking kind, not that Bethsoft junk. ) As an aside... I did a little playing around with animation and such of -any- portrait. It's surprisingly simple to do. I think if I was starting the Drow/Elves again today I'd go a new route and just make them a lot taller. That would be -real- nudity then.

I may at some point redo the organization of the existing Drow phenotypes however. I can utilize the "color" slot which isn't normally used for humans. That would mean 4 phenotypes, plus a bunch of colors for each. It would make it a lot easier to include additional eye and lipstick colors. It's not too bad for the Drow but I find it's kind of annoying for the elves. (12 phenotypes and all.) Reorganizing everything in this manner would make things quite elegant.

[Kitsunesorcerer]

Given we already have a talking mushroom that... looks like a deformed guy's .......  I'm betting talking cucumbers.

 

However....  a spriggan race? (The good looking kind, not that Bethsoft junk. ) As an aside... I did a little playing around with animation and such of -any- portrait. It's surprisingly simple to do. I think if I was starting the Drow/Elves again today I'd go a new route and just make them a lot taller. That would be -real- nudity then.

I may at some point redo the organization of the existing Drow phenotypes however. I can utilize the "color" slot which isn't normally used for humans. That would mean 4 phenotypes, plus a bunch of colors for each. It would make it a lot easier to include additional eye and lipstick colors. It's not too bad for the Drow but I find it's kind of annoying for the elves. (12 phenotypes and all.) Reorganizing everything in this manner would make things quite elegant.

 

Good Looking spriggan? I thought the ones from skyrim looked pretty nice .

[Nessa]

U P D A T E

 

• Basically: new ships! I went ahead and grabbed the Elven ships and made them all dark and Drowy looking. The only thing I didn't change from the previous ships style was:

1. Science vessels. (I know, but I'm still of the mind that the Elven science ship is a place holder until I can make up my mind.)
2. Corvettes. (I actually sort of prefer the Avian corvette to the Moluscoid types I used for Elves.)

• So what changed?

1. Destroyers. One type, two colors.
2. Cruisers. Two types.
3. Battleships: 3 types, plus one with an alternate color.

All military ships types are chosen via the stern option now!

@Kitsune

 

Sure, if you like no facial expressions, an ugly thorn head, and getting a splinter on your... hand!  

 

@Everyone

 

In a minute, I'm going to upload a very testy-testy version of the Elves that gets rid of randomization. If that works out alright, I'm probably going to go ahead and move the changes over here too. While the chances of Elven fallen empires does go up a lot, everything else is controllable. I have a game going right now with the changes active. Drow are still everywhere, but the elves are quite rare. (Except when the fallen empire elves are blowing your ships up! )

[Kitsunesorcerer]

They have a face though, the thorn head looks nice, especially the antlers. You have a point with the splinters though.

Of course, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, so looking forward to what you come up with.

[Dark Thoughts]

I liked the spriggan design from Skyrim too, also the elements you were able to summon.

Of course they were tree like, but I think that's totally fitting as a nature spirit. 

Overall I liked them more as the variant in Oblivion and Morrowind / Bloodmoon.

I'm generally a bit annoyed if creatures like that end up too human like, same goes for all the species in Star Wars and similar sci-fi universes. 

 

And from the sexlab mods aside there was also a pretty cool spriggan armor someone made which looked pretty cool too (given, this one ended up in a sexlab mod too ... lol).

[Nessa]

And you're both forgetting the flies. FLIES! EEW! (Or were they supposed to be .... wasps!? EEK! )

 

And... a little anecdote from my current game (that will probably be over with in a short time).... Ran into the Prythorn.... Prethorn? Something thorn again in my current game. Last time I saw these guys they moved around in pretty lethal fleets of about oh.... 20 to 30K. SO... I've got my own lethal 40K fleet just waiting when they pop out of their dimensional... whatever.

 

...

 

And out pops a fleet of 120K!!!!   I guess Crystallis wasn't lying when it said it boosts their power!!!

 

[sora3]

Nice one Nessa, I've been enjoying Stellaris with your mods. Is there any plans to do a human version of this or is that too hard?

[Dark Thoughts]

100k fleets are in vanilla too, the unbidden spawn constant 75k fleets now. 

Both still pretty easy to beat with lances though.

 

There's also the harder invaders mod, certainly makes things interesting.

[Nessa]

@Sora

 

Humans are already done technically. If you mean the "without apparel" aspect. Well, OK, I didn't do the africans but it wouldn't be much of a chore. Clothes would work on humans as well but.... meh. I should probably just release the body backgrounds for others if they want to mess with humans. (Humans just don't interest me! )

 

@HateMe

 

I see... so perhaps this was a 1.2 thing plus Crystallis? If vanilla is 100K... ouch.

 

EDIT: Erm... OK, I'm officially freaking out. A 300K fleet just popped up blowing the heck out of the strongest AI empire....  

 

OH... and some news. I've decided the original Drow and Ilythiiri cities were just stupid recolors. I gave the Ilythiiri a proper new city tileset (purple as always) and the Drow set is now better than a just a stupid darkened version of a primitive city. (Didn't want the Drow getting jealous that the elves had better city styles.... Jealousy and Drow? Bad combo! )

[sora3]

@Sora

 

Humans are already done technically. If you mean the "without apparel" aspect. Well, OK, I didn't do the africans but it wouldn't be much of a chore. Clothes would work on humans as well but.... meh. I should probably just release the body backgrounds for others if they want to mess with humans. (Humans just don't interest me! )

 

@HateMe

 

I see... so perhaps this was a 1.2 thing plus Crystallis? If vanilla is 100K... ouch.

 

EDIT: Erm... OK, I'm officially freaking out. A 300K fleet just popped up blowing the heck out of the strongest AI empire....  

 

OH... and some news. I've decided the original Drow and Ilythiiri cities were just stupid recolors. I gave the Ilythiiri a proper new city tileset (purple as always) and the Drow set is now better than a just a stupid darkened version of a primitive city. (Didn't want the Drow getting jealous that the elves had better city styles.... Jealousy and Drow? Bad combo! )

 

I meant without the apparel aspect. I can understand that the appeal of humans isn't great but it is something that Paradox didn't think of...well, probably not straight away.

 

And yeah, think you might need to rebalance this as I was able to get resources rather quickly so perhaps a debuff to the amount of resources gathered?