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Who will win the final battle of the wasteland, NCR or BOS?


Anbeegod

Who will win?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. The battles are in NCR territory

    • NCR
      27
    • BOS
      4
  2. 2. The battles are in BOS territory

    • NCR
      7
    • BOS
      24
  3. 3. The battles are in an independent territory, both sides initially have no power there

    • NCR
      15
    • BOS
      16
  4. 4. Ultimate result

    • NCR
      7
    • BOS
      5
    • Cold War between NCR and BOS
      19


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In FNV, NCR and BOS cooperated to kill off a bunch of madman, but we all know it was just a temporary cooperation for both sides' survival, just like their war against the Enclave. They, as Fallout's two key factions, are still each other's nemesis, and the final conflict between the two will be a decisive war to the land of America.

 

BOS will never allow NCR to become a force that can outmatch them, and neither will NCR tolerate BOS's interference in their *liberation* of America.

 

Let's just say the player is out of the picture, and the NCR and BOS are going to fight the ultimate war without the player. The canon world state in this discussion would be NCR victory in FNV, BOS victory in FO3 and FO4, Courier nuked Caesar's land.

 

NCR has a powerful economy, a huge amount of population, and the endless supply of energy from the Hoover Dam;

BOS has superior firepower, is beginning to recruit wastelanders, Liberty Prime, and possess the Enclave tech recovered in DC.

 

Let's separate the war into three possibilities. Who would be more likely to win in these battlegrounds?

 

 

My bet:

1. NCR victory. They're in a better position to launch assaults to BOS intruding forces, and BOS would be in no shape to counter strike

2. BOS victory. They can place hi-tech weapons in different corners to counter NCR strike; even if NCR manage to defeat BOS in their own territory, there would be a tremendous loss of NCR.

3. NCR victory. BOS can't even hope to match NCR in diplomacy, and NCR would be more likely to gain the locals' support, thus gain significant information and knowledge of the place.

 

Ultimate victory: NCR, but the defeated BOS will be separated into different terrorist groups, continue to plague the NCR for years to come.

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Guest MonsterFish

Do the BoS really give a fuck? As long as they have access to high tech weaponry they're not really interested in winning or losing. I can see the NCR and the BoS forming an alliance, however uneasy that may be.

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Wouldn't we need to know the definitive results of each games canon ending? If the canon NV ending is House/Yes Man then the NCR wouldn't have any power in Vegas, and if it was House, there'd be no Brotherhood.

 

Fallout 3 would obviously be BOS as the NCR would have to move their troops there by foot and weary, whereas BOS has vertibirds and other tech. 

 

As a whole, it depends on the status of both factions both before and during this war.

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Wouldn't we need to know the definitive results of each games canon ending? If the canon NV ending is House/Yes Man then the NCR wouldn't have any power in Vegas, and if it was House, there'd be no Brotherhood.

 

Fallout 3 would obviously be BOS as the NCR would have to move their troops there by foot and weary, whereas BOS has vertibirds and other tech. 

 

As a whole, it depends on the status of both factions both before and during this war.

 

 

 The canon world state in this discussion would be NCR victory in FNV, BOS victory in FO3 and FO4, Courier nuked Caesar's land.

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Guest MonsterFish

My guess would be that NCR would have taken over most of the southern and western states, still moving north. The BoS is still active, not allied with the NCR but they simply daren't challenge them. They're too powerful so whenever a BoS raids a new place, they just move away from it untill they pass through. Obviously for more important objects they would rather defend them than let them fall into the wrong hands. It's like the cold war, a stand-off with barely any actual fighting between the 2 major belligerents.

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My guess would be that NCR would have taken over most of the southern and western states, still moving north. The BoS is still active, not allied with the NCR but they simply daren't challenge them. They're too powerful so whenever a BoS raids a new place, they just move away from it untill they pass through. Obviously for more important objects they would rather defend them than let them fall into the wrong hands. It's like the cold war, a stand-off with barely any actual fighting between the 2 major belligerents.

 

 

Interesting point. I'll add a Cold War option in the ultimate result.

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I doubt it, but, it's your topic... NCR's best tactic would be using their own soldiers as cannon fodder, which never really works. Better equipped, better trained, I'm basing all power armor off of Fallout 4's, and they SHOULD have Liberty Prime (haven't played Fallout 4 enough to know whom has him) Yeah... BOS any day.

 

Edit: The problem may lie in East Coast vs West Coast BOS.

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Guest MonsterFish

I think weapon-wise, the NCR is just about on par with the BoS. Let's say this is 200 years in the future, they'd have a good enough economy and good enough trade routes for the Gunrunners (Which I suspect would be integrated into the NCR military) to easily bring in high-grade heavy weaponry. But the BoS has much more tech. More power armour, vertibirds, the prydwen, other BoS airships and Liberty Prime. The NCR is larger in numbers but the BoS has high tech.

 

 

Liberty Prime isn't completely invincible. Unless BOS can manage to produce Liberty Primes themselves, they can't rely on it to defeat NCR. Besides, how do they move a machine this big to other states? :o

 

 

The thing is pretty fast without any help, it could traverse easily through Downtown DC without much problem or help, the only thing stopping it from leaving the player behind was that it had to stop every once in a while to fight. I think in-lore they were going to transport it from DC to Anchorage using vertibirds, not sure how many or how, whether it was with hooks or with magnets but from the time when it gets lifted out of the Citadel and the loops through its shoulder pads I'd guess 2 vertibirds with hooks.

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Brotherhood of Steel,

 

With NCR trying to keep up trade and being for the most part based on various families of wealth and influence...

 

Honestly NCR has a lot to maintain and it really isn't in the cards to be waging large scale battles and even if you decide that NCR victory in FNV they were close to pulling out of there and it was costly as it was the spoils were not enough to even justify the loses meaning in your cannon they are operating at a deficit.

 

NCR doesn't really have an interest in waging war unless its to secure more holdings for the purpose of making money and if the cost is too high or the margins to slim well the whole thing is moot...Overall the war in FNV was unpopular, made them more enemies....Hmph

 

Brotherhood operates as a totalitarian military organization....So they don't have to keep monitary backers and land holders happy.

Superior tech as well, sorry but the NCR victories via superior numbers was outright cheese....You know who else had Superior numbers in Lore and near equivalent tech?  China vs America, how did that turn out?

 

You also didn't mention Mid West Brotherhood...So whats cannon there?  Did they take control of the Robot Army and its manufacturing plant?  Just the plants? Or did they destroy it all.  Did they align with mutants or not?  Regardless this faction has superior numbers and enough available technology to take on both other factions.

 

_________________

 

The way for NCR to win, is to be attacked....This will help polarize the Leadership and the People to maintain War.

Also a prolonged conflict or Cold War could result in NCR victory.

 

The way for NCR to lose quickly, is for them to get their supply lines and manufacturing plants attacked/destroyed...Or Leadership/Key Families destroyed early at the onset of said War.  Which is not entirely out of the question but this would mean BoS would need appropriate intel and I just don't feel that they do a very good job infiltrating anyone, they would need a Player Character for that information.

 

So they would have to Destroy Supply and Manufacturing which they would have a better time determining where that was as opposed to killing off the leadership which would be ideal.

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Liberty Prime isn't completely invincible. Unless BOS can manage to produce Liberty Primes themselves, they can't rely on it to defeat NCR. Besides, how do they move a machine this big to other states? :o

Invincible, no. But I have seen what it can do, and what the best trained NCR can do and have no faith in their ability to destroy it, any mobile base created to maintain it, and the BOS directly. Liberty Prime does have legs by the way.  :D

 

I think weapon-wise, the NCR is just about on par with the BoS. Let's say this is 200 years in the future, they'd have a good enough economy and good enough trade routes for the Gunrunners (Which I suspect would be integrated into the NCR military) to easily bring in high-grade heavy weaponry. But the BoS has much more tech. More power armour, vertibirds, the prydwen, other BoS airships and Liberty Prime. The NCR is larger in numbers but the BoS has high tech.

Your basing it far in the future, and in belief that things go perfectly for the NCR, and there is absolutely no change for the BOS. Internal fighting, political schemes and poor military leadership in NV, yet we're supposed to just believe that it just magically goes away?

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Guest MonsterFish

 

Your basing it far in the future, and in belief that things go perfectly for the NCR, and there is absolutely no change for the BOS. Internal fighting, political schemes and poor military leadership in NV, yet we're supposed to just believe that it just magically goes away?

 

I never liked the NCR in the first place, they're real assholes in that they heavily tax the shit out of everyone, even the poor get heavily taxed. I actually agreed more with the Legion, they didn't tax anyone and only really turned people they saw as bad stock into slaves or crucified them, leaving out the honest hardworking people to do as they like. Take Dale Barton for example, he sided with the Legion because he'd have free reigns over his own caravan and wouldn't be heavily taxed. Of course I'd agree even more with Yes Man since he's the only one that wants TRUE freedom.

 

So I think that that far in the future the NCR would say 'fuck it' and just execute anyone that was against them, even if it was in their own ranks.

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I actually agreed more with the Legion, they didn't tax anyone and only really turned people they saw as bad stock into slaves or crucified them, leaving out the honest hardworking people to do as they like. Take Dale Barton for example, he sided with the Legion because he'd have free reigns over his own caravan and wouldn't be heavily taxed. 

That's not what the Legion did, or at least, not completely. They assimilated and raped other groups out of their own culture. They leave male caravaneers alone as they're a means of obtaining supplies they find themselves otherwise unable to obtain during a war. Any woman (excluding the courier) was immediately turned loose as a Legionary wife at best, a pack mule, or merely a fuck-toy for the Legion.

 

I agree taxes suck, but, if that's the worst the NCR did, then they weren't nearly a bad Vegas faction.

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Guest MonsterFish

 

 

I actually agreed more with the Legion, they didn't tax anyone and only really turned people they saw as bad stock into slaves or crucified them, leaving out the honest hardworking people to do as they like. Take Dale Barton for example, he sided with the Legion because he'd have free reigns over his own caravan and wouldn't be heavily taxed. 

That's not what the Legion did, or at least, not completely. They assimilated and raped other groups out of their own culture. They leave male caravaneers alone as they're a means of obtaining supplies they find themselves otherwise unable to obtain during a war. Any woman (excluding the courier) was immediately turned loose as a Legionary wife at best, a pack mule, or merely a fuck-toy for the Legion.

 

I agree taxes suck, but, if that's the worst the NCR did, then they weren't nearly a bad Vegas faction.

 

 

'S a fair point, I concede.

 

But as I said, the NCR are taxing now and pretty heavily, not really giving the poor proper homes and saying 'Fuck you' to the people in Freeside whilst giving their soldiers free time in New Vegas. Anyone not registered to them would not receive food. You can see why in the future I'd expect them to go totalitarian jerks.

 

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Guest MonsterFish

I have no doubts that they would win. But I also have doubts that the BoS would win either, since the BoS have never really cared whether they won or lost as long as they have their technology. This thread argues whether the NCR wins or the BoS wins. So allow me to give you my perspective if this expanded more than just NCR and BoS.

 

With heavy taxations and no real organisation, a few splinter groups from NCR-held towns like Vault City or Necropolis emerge. For this example lets take Vault City. Now Vault City is already a well established place with some high tech weaponry. They call for a coupe d'etat on the NCR forces occupying (?, or outside) as A. The taxation on their caravams means that they have less importation of goods from outside the city and/or B. The taxation and poor treatment of their own citizens means reduced population and reduced living conditions. The coupe is successful due to the higher grade of weaponry used by Vault City. News gets around at how a small group managed to drive away NCR forces, this inspires a few coupes in various places with varying degrees of success. In San Francisco the Shi fund people so they can get out of the taxation on their business, (Scratch this, just brushed up on my lore and apparently the Shi came out of the crime business and went into research by 2242) loyal legionaires (I'd imagine there'd be some left over) manage to take back parts of Arizona. Eventually the NCR hold sort of crumbles and everything goes back to the way it was. No Enclave, No NCR, and the BoS simply don't care enough to do anything about it.

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I only have to say something: I've always seen the BOS paladins as Superman and NCR rangers as Batman, and feel like if the NCR makes a good planning, they're going to win. NCR veteran rangers don't have power armors, sentry robots and pewpew lazors (not referring to the actual Pew Pew laser pistol), but they have something far greater than that, skill. Superman may have powers, but Batman knows how to counter everything, same with MOST of NCR Veteran Rangers. 

That's all I have to say about this... But considering that both Kimball and Oliver are dicks, well...

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I only have to say something: I've always seen the BOS paladins as Superman and NCR rangers as Batman, and feel like if the NCR makes a good planning, they're going to win. NCR veteran rangers don't have power armors, sentry robots and pewpew lazors (not referring to the actual Pew Pew laser pistol), but they have something far greater than that, skill. Superman may have powers, but Batman knows how to counter everything, same with MOST of NCR Veteran Rangers. 

That's all I have to say about this... But considering that both Kimball and Oliver are dicks, well...

Rangers are skilled tacticians, but with that comparison, you're kind of implying that the BOS aren't. BOS knights are put through intense training both virtual and real throughout their lives. Compare them more along the lines of super soldiers; with both an impressive combat prowess as well as tactical ability.

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God its like someone is trying to claim that the Spartans are going to take it up the ass from the Athens...Which just isn't going to happen nor would it happen or happen at all.

 

Brotherhood of Steel are your 300.

 

They are not going to roll over for a shakey as fuck done in whore like the NCR.

 

NCR are not a stable faction.

Nor has anyone said which group of BoS, not that it really matters unless you pick that fail hold group from New Vegas.

 

The lore in FNV is pretty freaging just as well jacked as any other Fallout game.

 

But just stop and think about this in FNV's own lore if a bunch of gunless Red Dress wearing slavers can make the NCR crap in their boots what makes you think that they are going to light up the BOS?

 

When NCR has its own people making active efforts to undermine the War against the Legion?

-That happened.

-NCR's own ranks and politicians didn't think that they had it in them to win against the Legion.

 

Can anyone really give a good reason for why in FNV the BoS had to be relegated to footlicker?

No, but everyone that holds Power Armor as being amazing would realize that lost power station/Satelite Death Machine Battle was a bad change up of lore.

 

Bottom Line,

NCR wont want, be able to, or be a real contender in a War...

Which means the only way a War will happen is if the BoS actually initiates that War.

 

The issue there is that it would be easy to start that war by attacking priority targets and that's match set win.

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God its like someone is trying to claim that the Spartans are going to take it up the ass from the Athens...Which just isn't going to happen nor would it happen or happen at all.

 

Brotherhood of Steel are your 300.

 

They are not going to roll over for a shakey as fuck done in whore like the NCR.

 

NCR are not a stable faction.

Nor has anyone said which group of BoS, not that it really matters unless you pick that fail hold group from New Vegas.

 

 

NCR and BOS are like USA and USSR without mutually assured destruction. They might cooperate in extremely rare occasions, but they're ultimately the greatest archenemies of each other.

 

Without mutually assured destruction, they don't have to halt a total war in fear of another apocalypse.

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God its like someone is trying to claim that the Spartans are going to take it up the ass from the Athens...Which just isn't going to happen nor would it happen or happen at all.

 

Brotherhood of Steel are your 300.

 

They are not going to roll over for a shakey as fuck done in whore like the NCR.

 

NCR are not a stable faction.

Nor has anyone said which group of BoS, not that it really matters unless you pick that fail hold group from New Vegas.

 

 

NCR and BOS are like USA and USSR without mutually assured destruction. They might cooperate in extremely rare occasions, but they're ultimately the greatest archenemies of each other.

 

Without mutually assured destruction, they don't have to halt a total war in fear of another apocalypse.

 

 

NCR still almost lost the War to a bunch of guys that like to wear funny cloths.

 

They darn near up and left that War unfinished and we all know how that would have turned out in the long run for NCR.

Cause the result would be Legion Vs BoS.

 

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God its like someone is trying to claim that the Spartans are going to take it up the ass from the Athens...Which just isn't going to happen nor would it happen or happen at all.

 

Brotherhood of Steel are your 300.

 

They are not going to roll over for a shakey as fuck done in whore like the NCR.

 

NCR are not a stable faction.

Nor has anyone said which group of BoS, not that it really matters unless you pick that fail hold group from New Vegas.

 

The lore in FNV is pretty freaging just as well jacked as any other Fallout game.

 

But just stop and think about this in FNV's own lore if a bunch of gunless Red Dress wearing slavers can make the NCR crap in their boots what makes you think that they are going to light up the BOS?

 

When NCR has its own people making active efforts to undermine the War against the Legion?

-That happened.

-NCR's own ranks and politicians didn't think that they had it in them to win against the Legion.

 

Can anyone really give a good reason for why in FNV the BoS had to be relegated to footlicker?

No, but everyone that holds Power Armor as being amazing would realize that lost power station/Satelite Death Machine Battle was a bad change up of lore.

 

Bottom Line,

NCR wont want, be able to, or be a real contender in a War...

Which means the only way a War will happen is if the BoS actually initiates that War.

 

The issue there is that it would be easy to start that war by attacking priority targets and that's match set win.

NCR had issue dealing with the Legion because they were overextended. Between the fact that they only had a small portion of their military in Vegas, and that they were wasting their own money setting up there (Everybody in-game says they're being bled dry, but they are doing it to themselves) Not to forget piss-poor military governors with no legitimate war tactics. Mix them all together, and of course the NCR comes out looking weak and undisciplined. Switch location to somewhere closer to their main branch where their main forces were easily accessible, and put competent military officers in charge, and the fight would have ended a lot sooner.

 

I still have no faith in them beating the BOS, at least not the East Coast ones from 3 or 4.

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God its like someone is trying to claim that the Spartans are going to take it up the ass from the Athens...Which just isn't going to happen nor would it happen or happen at all.

 

Brotherhood of Steel are your 300.

 

They are not going to roll over for a shakey as fuck done in whore like the NCR.

 

NCR are not a stable faction.

Nor has anyone said which group of BoS, not that it really matters unless you pick that fail hold group from New Vegas.

 

 

NCR and BOS are like USA and USSR without mutually assured destruction. They might cooperate in extremely rare occasions, but they're ultimately the greatest archenemies of each other.

 

Without mutually assured destruction, they don't have to halt a total war in fear of another apocalypse.

 

 

NCR still almost lost the War to a bunch of guys that like to wear funny cloths.

 

 

 

Something similar happened in real life. Only the big guys did lose to a technologically inferior force. It was called Vietnam. The NCR is a USA analog in every way, especially its expansionistic attitudes, diplomacy with the barrel of a gun, and the older generation sending the younger one off to die in geopolitical conflicts. Oh, wait, that last one is every nation in history...

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NCR strategy as far as I can tell revolves around sitting in one spot and waiting for the fight to come to them. BoS are very mobile with Power Armor, the Prydwen and Vertibirds. IMO the BoS would have a much better chance of successfully attacking NCR territory but holding on to it is another question. I'd say they would not have the manpower to do so, being more reliant on hit-and-run engagements with a main force (most likely deployed from the Prydwen) to mop up & salvage the sites of these battles.

 

However since the NCR aren't very reliant on Power Armor, they would be much more successful with ambush and counter-ambush due to First Recon and Rangers. In a toe-to-toe full-on battle I think NCR would win because of their logistical capacity and manpower advantage. If the Boomers canonically sided with them, they'd also have a lot of artillery to call on putting BoS at a range disadvantage. In small general engagements BoS unquestionably have the advantage of firepower, mobility and survivability.

NCR bureaucracy also seems to be a problem; Due to pressure to advance, or indecision on part of their leaders, NCR units would likely find themselves short of supply, or isolated from other units, leaving them wide open to said hit-and-run attacks. In other words, due to the BoS' mobility they can strike, clear, salvage and be gone before NCR can send reinforcements, in addition to the ability to conduct attacks on supply lines and logistics centers, all of which would have a crushing effect on NCR morale.

 

Basically with the right tactics, BoS would win. They would never go for an open engagement against NCR, if they're going to plop the majority of troops in one area and expect the BoS to entertain them in a colonial-era line battle (Which they would probably win), why would the BoS humor them?

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