Monsto Brukes Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 That scene is 20 SPODUM mannequins in various states of dress, all using the walk_forward animation in a custom player home. It renders on my machine at 38fps with PE and 28 with SMP. Unofficial to be sure, but generically it sounds like it's ~25% more computationally intensive.
27X Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 As stated ad nauseum ENB and SMP do not get along, SMP has less resolving to do than PE does. What are your framerates without an ENB and then with. Also what version of OpenCl are you using, 1.2 or 2.0, and what card do you have. All of that matters. Also make sure you're not using hydro's memory patch, es no bueno if you're using SKSE 172+
quin666 Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Happen few times to me, my 60fps drop to 34fps. Thought was ENB problem. Thought was 2k monitor stealing a lot fps. Good know these two don't work together.
Monsto Brukes Posted October 22, 2015 Author Posted October 22, 2015 As stated ad nauseum ENB and SMP do not get along, SMP has less resolving to do than PE does. What are your framerates without an ENB and then with. Also what version of OpenCl are you using, 1.2 or 2.0, and what card do you have. All of that matters. Also make sure you're not using hydro's memory patch, es no bueno if you're using SKSE 172+ It was not stated "ad nauseum" in the "Prepack" thread. It wasn't clearly stated by anyone that enb+smp = problem or to not use the memory patch. CLEARLY stated. Sure someone may have mentioned it, but I certainly didn't come away from it as clear fact. This is exactly the reason I started the first HDTPE threads back whenever that was, and started the site, and asked Ashal to start this subforum... because there was a ton of information to catalog, everybody knew something different, yet nobody wanted to answer any questions. So . . . ENB is a problem. Certain types of ENB or does anyone know? In that thread it was clear that nvidia cards needed the OpenCl install. I'm running AMD. Do I need it anyway? Don't use the memory patch with SKSE >172 Got it. Those boobs look great, what preset is that? This is mine. I modified it to bump the juggs a fun bit.
swmas Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 This is mine. I modified it to bump the juggs a fun bit. Sweet bro! Thanks a lot!
27X Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 I was the guy stating as nauseum, not anyone else, most of the other people using SMP aren't using an ENB at all judging by most of the shots (at least on this forum) These are the ENB's known to have issues: Any ENB using matso's color correction or Prod80's lighting code, such as but not limited to Any and all versions of K K/Matso derivatives such as: Rampage Snapdragon Unko Anko Bleak/Un ( I have not personally tested bleak) Tranquility HRK NLA and all 23054923549253 NLA variations, including Dahaka and Aeon RealVision (real vision is affected the least out of the ones I have tested) Milipon Diamond Suri Tundra All of these either feature stuttering or broken color correction or lag, or some combination thereof. This affects nVidia cards to greater degree than AMD. SMP also has issues with ENBoost's memory swapping, which can lead to giant hitches and straight up crashing. (SMP actively overwrites enb/allocated adressed memory in ram) I would install the OCL runtimes regardless, but since it's not crashing and it works, you obviously don't need them, but SMP is supposed to be lighter on your framerate, so you might install them anyway.
Monsto Brukes Posted October 23, 2015 Author Posted October 23, 2015 I was the guy stating as nauseum, not anyone else, most of the other people using SMP aren't using an ENB at all judging by most of the shots (at least on this forum) These are the ENB's known to have issues: Any ENB using matso's color correction or Prod80's lighting code, such as but not limited to Any and all versions of K K/Matso derivatives such as: Rampage Snapdragon Unko Anko Bleak/Un ( I have not personally tested bleak) Tranquility HRK NLA and all 23054923549253 NLA variations, including Dahaka and Aeon RealVision (real vision is affected the least out of the ones I have tested) Milipon Diamond Suri Tundra All of these either feature stuttering or broken color correction or lag, or some combination thereof. This affects nVidia cards to greater degree than AMD. SMP also has issues with ENBoost's memory swapping, which can lead to giant hitches and straight up crashing. (SMP actively overwrites enb/allocated adressed memory in ram) I would install the OCL runtimes regardless, but since it's not crashing and it works, you obviously don't need them, but SMP is supposed to be lighter on your framerate, so you might install them anyway. I was looking at the background of the ENB I'm using (Far Off ENB) and of course he doesn't say anything about "based on" so I can only assume that means it's original. it's been removed from nexus and I looked at the forum thread and it's current site. Even so, i only have one slight and very rare color problem that was not corrected with . . . [Optimize] FasterLoading = false So . . . how do I disable the HDT memory manager, or where are the docs for disabling the ENBoost? Removing HDTmemorypatch out of the way CTD on level load, and I suppose that nobody has considered disabling ENBoost. the AMD link from this post here goes to a page with the AMD Catalyst download. Which I already have installed. At this point, I will assume that is enough because I cannot confirm from the Catalyst Control Center that OpenCL is installed (there's no entry talking about it.) [edit] ran GPU-Z (benchmarking program) and found that both with and without the ENB d3d9.dll, the SMP performance is the same. In other words, I've measured that ENB is not affecting the SMP in-game performance. All the measurable numbers are almost useless because ENB is obviously a GPU hog.
TnTTnT Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 how do I disable the HDT memory manager, or where are the docs for disabling the ENBoost? Removing HDTmemorypatch out of the way CTD on level load, and I suppose that nobody has considered disabling ENBoost. the AMD link from this post here goes to a page with the AMD Catalyst download. Which I already have installed. At this point, I will assume that is enough because I cannot confirm from the Catalyst Control Center that OpenCL is installed (there's no entry talking about it.) Well, what I did to disable HDT memory patch is delete/rename it from SKSE\plugins folder, that's all.
Monsto Brukes Posted October 23, 2015 Author Posted October 23, 2015 how do I disable the HDT memory manager, or where are the docs for disabling the ENBoost? Removing HDTmemorypatch out of the way CTD on level load, and I suppose that nobody has considered disabling ENBoost. the AMD link from this post here goes to a page with the AMD Catalyst download. Which I already have installed. At this point, I will assume that is enough because I cannot confirm from the Catalyst Control Center that OpenCL is installed (there's no entry talking about it.) Well, what I did to disable HDT memory patch is delete/rename it from SKSE\plugins folder, that's all. HM I did that and CTD on level load. HMM Incoming experiment . . . [edit] Quick experiment . . . I thought that maybe that screenshot I have in the OP may have been too much for the mod without the memory manager, so from the game menu (with the imperial logo, theme, continue all that) I did coc studioblack which would be classic nord dragonborn and absolutely nothing else. . . and it still ctd right when it should show the level.
27X Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 ENB's mem features are these: ExpandSystemMemoryX64=trueReduceSystemMemoryUsage=trueDisableDriverMemoryManager=trueDisablePreloadToVRAM=falseEnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=trueReservedMemorySizeMb=128VideoMemorySizeMb=4096EnableCompression=falseAutodetectVideoMemorySize=false a pretty comprehensive writeup is here: http://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:ENB as for removing Hydros manager: I had a CTD with it in place, but you said earlier you don't have SKSE's memory patch? If so, that's why you're crashing then, the instance you're trying to load exceed Skyrim's limit. Removing the hdt mem dll is removing the manager, also changing the ini to remove the dll reference. You're the only person I've ever seen whom had worse performance with SMP over PE, but since PE doesn't explode everything else and doesn't require new built meshes for body interactions outside of boobies, I haven't bothered with SMP since. If you have to change your entire skyrim memory handling setup just to get SMP to work and it doesn't work with anything else, not exactly a keeper.
Farass Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 I also have big fps drops using enb and smp together. In the open I could have 40-50 fps, but whn entering an area or looking at an area with nps's, the framrate would drop to 15-20 fps. This has been irritating for a long time and I have tried a lot of setting in the enblocal (realvision), removing mods, tweaking shadows and so on, but no luck in doing any big difference. Then I tried removing the enb (realvision) and just used enboost. In the open i run with 60fps, but if I go into, say, Whiterun where there are a lot of npc's. The framerate would still drop to maybe 15-25 fps even without an enb. So I experimented a bit with the values in the .xml file and noticed that lowering or increasing the weight threshold values had a much bigger impact on the fps than using enb or no enb. However, setting the weight threshold too big means that there will be no collision. <per-triangle-shape name="BaseShape"> <margin>0</margin> <penetration>1</penetration> <tag>body</tag> <no-collide-with-tag>body</no-collide-with-tag> <weight-threshold bone="NPC L Butt">0.15</weight-threshold> <weight-threshold bone="NPC R Butt">0.15</weight-threshold> <weight-threshold bone="NPC L Breast">0.15</weight-threshold> <!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> <weight-threshold bone="NPC R Breast">0.15</weight-threshold><!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> <weight-threshold bone="NPC L Breast01">0.3</weight-threshold><!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> <weight-threshold bone="NPC R Breast01">0.3</weight-threshold><!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> So for my part , using or not using enb does make a difference fps wise, but the biggest difference is the settings in the xml. Problem is that to get collision I have to sacrifice fps...So I begin to wonder if maybe there is something wrong in the xml setup? My pc: nvidia 980ti, 16GB ram, core i7-5820k, ssd for skyrim, windows 10.
Monsto Brukes Posted October 23, 2015 Author Posted October 23, 2015 ENB's mem features are these: ExpandSystemMemoryX64=true ReduceSystemMemoryUsage=true DisableDriverMemoryManager=true DisablePreloadToVRAM=false EnableUnsafeMemoryHacks=true ReservedMemorySizeMb=128 VideoMemorySizeMb=4096 EnableCompression=false AutodetectVideoMemorySize=false a pretty comprehensive writeup is here: http://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:ENB as for removing Hydros manager: I had a CTD with it in place, but you said earlier you don't have SKSE's memory patch? If so, that's why you're crashing then, the instance you're trying to load exceed Skyrim's limit. Removing the hdt mem dll is removing the manager, also changing the ini to remove the dll reference. You're the only person I've ever seen whom had worse performance with SMP over PE, but since PE doesn't explode everything else and doesn't require new built meshes for body interactions outside of boobies, I haven't bothered with SMP since. If you have to change your entire skyrim memory handling setup just to get SMP to work and it doesn't work with anything else, not exactly a keeper. I've never run a "skse memory patch" (except the 4gb patch in the early days). At this point I thought it was part of the base install. I found and read that STEP doc. It talks in detail about all the options... none of which disable ENB memory management. Removing the hdt mem dll is removing the manager, also changing the ini to remove the dll reference. changing which ini to remove which dll reference? I haven't done anything like that. Do I need to install an SKSE memory manager? Or is this just a suggestion that you're making? so yeah that's about my luck. I'm might try to do it with a unmodded or lightly modded install to see if some other mod is the culprit. But if that's what it takes, then what's the point? Like you say "not exactly a keeper". Was playing the Windcaller Horn earlier, with "immersive wenches" and "hateful wenches" which can spawn up a ton of draugr and a small handful of females intent on kicking your ass. I turned a corner and went from ~25 fps (which is lower than normal) to 5 fps. yean... console > qqq
Monsto Brukes Posted October 23, 2015 Author Posted October 23, 2015 I also have big fps drops using enb and smp together. In the open I could have 40-50 fps, but whn entering an area or looking at an area with nps's, the framrate would drop to 15-20 fps. This has been irritating for a long time and I have tried a lot of setting in the enblocal (realvision), removing mods, tweaking shadows and so on, but no luck in doing any big difference. Then I tried removing the enb (realvision) and just used enboost. In the open i run with 60fps, but if I go into, say, Whiterun where there are a lot of npc's. The framerate would still drop to maybe 15-25 fps even without an enb. So I experimented a bit with the values in the .xml file and noticed that lowering or increasing the weight threshold values had a much bigger impact on the fps than using enb or no enb. However, setting the weight threshold too big means that there will be no collision. <per-triangle-shape name="BaseShape"> <margin>0</margin> <penetration>1</penetration> <tag>body</tag> <no-collide-with-tag>body</no-collide-with-tag> <weight-threshold bone="NPC L Butt">0.15</weight-threshold> <weight-threshold bone="NPC R Butt">0.15</weight-threshold> <weight-threshold bone="NPC L Breast">0.15</weight-threshold> <!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> <weight-threshold bone="NPC R Breast">0.15</weight-threshold><!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> <weight-threshold bone="NPC L Breast01">0.3</weight-threshold><!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> <weight-threshold bone="NPC R Breast01">0.3</weight-threshold><!-- increasing this value leads to huge fps incrase--> So for my part , using or not using enb does make a difference fps wise, but the biggest difference is the settings in the xml. Problem is that to get collision I have to sacrifice fps...So I begin to wonder if maybe there is something wrong in the xml setup? My pc: nvidia 980ti, 16GB ram, core i7-5820k, ssd for skyrim, windows 10. I'm not using collision at all, so I could increase that all the way to 1. Trying now. [edit] I just completely deleted the per-vertex-shape section. It had about a 10% boost . . . from 28fps to 31. After restarting the game, the framerate was back to normal 38 in that scene in the first post. It also seems to behave with a number of npcs on screen. So yeah, that was the culprit. Oh . . . I didn't mention, but i will now. If you're editing your xml, you can see changes by selecting a subject (you, spodum mannequin, etc) and doing "setnpcweight". Don't know why this works but changing cells doesnt, but there you have it.
27X Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 Yeah you definitely don't want per vertex deformation, especially with collision, it will destroy your framerates And no, it's not required, just a suggestion. While SMP is much more smooth and natural looking than PE and handles collision MUCH ->visuals<- better, in the form Hydro has it now, it's simply not worth the pains in the ass to get working, especially in regard to hair and multisource collision (which is one of the main reasons to have rigid body physics in the first place) It simply isn't mature enough, and unlike PE, very few people are willing to adopt it in due to basically having to sacrifice a great deal of other immersion factors to get it run nicely with itself. PE can look almost as good with some tweaking and work, and it doesn't explode most set ups, provided they aren't running on a toaster. none of which disable ENB memory management. setting those to false does.
Monsto Brukes Posted October 24, 2015 Author Posted October 24, 2015 Yeah you definitely don't want per vertex deformation, especially with collision, it will destroy your framerates And no, it's not required, just a suggestion. While SMP is much more smooth and natural looking than PE and handles collision MUCH ->visuals<- better, in the form Hydro has it now, it's simply not worth the pains in the ass to get working, especially in regard to hair and multisource collision (which is one of the main reasons to have rigid body physics in the first place) It simply isn't mature enough, and unlike PE, very few people are willing to adopt it in due to basically having to sacrifice a great deal of other immersion factors to get it run nicely with itself. PE can look almost as good with some tweaking and work, and it doesn't explode most set ups, provided they aren't running on a toaster. none of which disable ENB memory management. setting those to false does. I dunno man . . . all told, it's simpler all the way around. It installs easily, it's expandable out of the box, and it's a lot simpler to modify than PE. I had it running by just installing tht package linked in that other thread I keep mentioning. After about maybe 4 hours of general fucking-with, I have a customized Phys-Kit that I like for body jiggles that doesn't dog the computer and a set of instructions that can be passed on to anyone that will listen. I'm going to put together a Setup Post, throw it against the wall and see what sticks.
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