QuiteTheTail Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Based on what I read on the description of "Seamless Heads", "Seamless Equipment for HGEC" and similar mods by junkacc, mending the seams alone is not sufficient to minimize the texture gaps in Oblivion meshes (particularly evident in the neck region). You must also make sure that the vertex normals (the average normal vector of all faces containing a vertex) are identical on both sides of the seam. My question is: what's the specifical tool or Blender script required to achieve this result? [EDIT] There is a "Modify Vertex Normals" bat file linking to modify_normals.py in kgtools that should be just what I'm looking for. Can anyone provide some hint about its usage? I wish Gerra6 was here... [/EDIT] P.S. I've tried to contact directely junkacc on the Nexus site, but had no reply so far.
DeadSomething Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 there's "seammender" in the KGtools. i never used it, but it is the tool, used for seamlessequipment. ifg that's not against rules or anything, i can repack and upload the files.
samhain6 Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Based on what I read on the description of "Seamless Heads", "Seamless Equipment for HGEC" and similar mods by junkacc, mending the seams alone is not sufficient to minimize the texture gaps in Oblivion meshes (particularly evident in the neck region). You must also make sure that the vertex normals (the average normal vector of all faces containing a vertex) are identical on both sides of the seam. My question is: what's the specifical tool or Blender script required to achieve this result? [EDIT] There is a "Modify Vertex Normals" bat file linking to modify_normals.py in kgtools that should be just what I'm looking for. Can anyone provide some hint about its usage? I wish Gerra6 was here... [/EDIT] P.S. I've tried to contact directely junkacc on the Nexus site, but had no reply so far. https://www.loverslab.com/topic/24393-blender-249b-scripts-package-101-12272013/
QuiteTheTail Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 there's "seammender" in the KGtools. i never used it, but it is the tool, used for seamlessequipment. ifg that's not against rules or anything, i can repack and upload the files. No need to do that, I already have Seam Mender. But... Based on what I read on the description of "Seamless Heads", "Seamless Equipment for HGEC" and similar mods by junkacc, mending the seams alone is not sufficient to minimize the texture gaps in Oblivion meshes (particularly evident in the neck region). You must also make sure that the vertex normals (the average normal vector of all faces containing a vertex) are identical on both sides of the seam. My question is: what's the specifical tool or Blender script required to achieve this result? [EDIT] There is a "Modify Vertex Normals" bat file linking to modify_normals.py in kgtools that should be just what I'm looking for. Can anyone provide some hint about its usage? I wish Gerra6 was here... [/EDIT] P.S. I've tried to contact directely junkacc on the Nexus site, but had no reply so far. https://www.loverslab.com/topic/24393-blender-249b-scripts-package-101-12272013/ Are these files different (i.e. updated versions) of the ones I downloaded from kgtools.org website? I already have those installed. In the linked post, I have found also the dl link for the "true normals" patch for Blender 2.49b, which I never used so far, and might just be the reason behind my poor results using the Blender scripts. And then there is this passage at post #18: "Also, after importing a skeleton and parenting it to a mesh, blender creates an "armature parent deform" modifier. Click on "make real" and "apply" before you mend seams, otherwise the script wont work at all. I pulled my hair out over this..." I would never have guessed on my own. So, basically I have to review my workflow. I usually import the skeleton last, after using the Mend Seams script... As for the modify_normals.py component, I believe it is used by Seam Mender itself (even though you can use it also as a standalone tool). Thank you both for caring. P.S. For the neck seam, I understand that some inner knowledge of how .egt files work is also required. Apparently the management of tri/egt/dds files was the next update Gerra6 was planning. He also states that the standalone tools should be more reliable than Blender scripts. Overall, the post linked here is a wonderful source of informations. @DeadSomething Post #22 answers all your doubts about using the Make Lattice tool for differently UVeted meshes.
samhain6 Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Are these files different (i.e. updated versions) of the ones I downloaded from kgtools.org website?I already have those installed. In the linked post, I have found also the dl link for the "true normals" patch for Blender 2.49b, which I never used so far, and might just be the reason behind my poor results using the Blender scripts. And then there is this passage at post #18: "Also, after importing a skeleton and parenting it to a mesh, blender creates an "armature parent deform" modifier. Click on "make real" and "apply" before you mend seams, otherwise the script wont work at all. I pulled my hair out over this..." I would never have guessed on my own. So, basically I have to review my workflow. I usually import the skeleton last, after using the Mend Seams script... The kgtools.org site would most likely have the newest versions, but they look to be the same at this time (v1.01). The true normals version of Blender is required. Figure 1 - Note that Preserve Imported Normal has been enabled. This is important, otherwise Blender will re-calculate all normals when entering edit mode. Figure 2 - Shows your RA-GUTS body with the neckline vertices selected. Figure 3 - Shows a compliant head with the matching neckline verts selected (in general, all compliant heads share the same normals at the neckline). Figure 4 - In object mode, select your body first and the head second (the head is now the active object and light pink and we'll be copying the normals from the head to the body). Figure 5 - Head to the Scripts menu and Mesh: Mend Seams. Figure 6 - Shows the typical options I use. After clicking Done, the script will process and match the neckline normals and you can export as usual. The following images show the current situation: Figure 7 - Highlights the normal for one of the verts on the head. Figure 8 - Highlights the normal for the corresponding vert on the RA-GUTS body (note how it is pointing off in a different direction). Figure 9 - Shows the same vert on the body after it has been matched to the head using Seam Mender (I've altered the normal draw length for enhanced visibility).
DeadSomething Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 ah, thx. i'll see how to use that knowledge now.
QuiteTheTail Posted October 18, 2015 Author Posted October 18, 2015 Are these files different (i.e. updated versions) of the ones I downloaded from kgtools.org website?I already have those installed. In the linked post, I have found also the dl link for the "true normals" patch for Blender 2.49b, which I never used so far, and might just be the reason behind my poor results using the Blender scripts. And then there is this passage at post #18: "Also, after importing a skeleton and parenting it to a mesh, blender creates an "armature parent deform" modifier. Click on "make real" and "apply" before you mend seams, otherwise the script wont work at all. I pulled my hair out over this..." I would never have guessed on my own. So, basically I have to review my workflow. I usually import the skeleton last, after using the Mend Seams script... The kgtools.org site would most likely have the newest versions, but they look to be the same at this time (v1.01). The true normals version of Blender is required. Figure 1 - Note that Preserve Imported Normal has been enabled. This is important, otherwise Blender will re-calculate all normals when entering edit mode. Figure 2 - Shows your RA-GUTS body with the neckline vertices selected. Figure 3 - Shows a compliant head with the matching neckline verts selected (in general, all compliant heads share the same normals at the neckline). Figure 4 - In object mode, select your body first and the head second (the head is now the active object and light pink and we'll be copying the normals from the head to the body). Figure 5 - Head to the Scripts menu and Mesh: Mend Seams. Figure 6 - Shows the typical options I use. After clicking Done, the script will process and match the neckline normals and you can export as usual. The following images show the current situation: Figure 7 - Highlights the normal for one of the verts on the head. Figure 8 - Highlights the normal for the corresponding vert on the RA-GUTS body (note how it is pointing off in a different direction). Figure 9 - Shows the same vert on the body after it has been matched to the head using Seam Mender (I've altered the normal draw length for enhanced visibility). My only worry with True Normals patch is the TAB key (apparently it forces the recalculation of normals). But the TAB key is necessary to switch from Edit Mode to Object Mode... Is there a problem with that? I will dock the User Settings window above the 3D View, like the example above, to make sure the "Preserve Imported Normals" is always selected.
samhain6 Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Are these files different (i.e. updated versions) of the ones I downloaded from kgtools.org website?I already have those installed. In the linked post, I have found also the dl link for the "true normals" patch for Blender 2.49b, which I never used so far, and might just be the reason behind my poor results using the Blender scripts. And then there is this passage at post #18: "Also, after importing a skeleton and parenting it to a mesh, blender creates an "armature parent deform" modifier. Click on "make real" and "apply" before you mend seams, otherwise the script wont work at all. I pulled my hair out over this..." I would never have guessed on my own. So, basically I have to review my workflow. I usually import the skeleton last, after using the Mend Seams script... The kgtools.org site would most likely have the newest versions, but they look to be the same at this time (v1.01). The true normals version of Blender is required. Figure 1 - Note that Preserve Imported Normal has been enabled. This is important, otherwise Blender will re-calculate all normals when entering edit mode. Figure 2 - Shows your RA-GUTS body with the neckline vertices selected. Figure 3 - Shows a compliant head with the matching neckline verts selected (in general, all compliant heads share the same normals at the neckline). Figure 4 - In object mode, select your body first and the head second (the head is now the active object and light pink and we'll be copying the normals from the head to the body). Figure 5 - Head to the Scripts menu and Mesh: Mend Seams. Figure 6 - Shows the typical options I use. After clicking Done, the script will process and match the neckline normals and you can export as usual. The following images show the current situation: Figure 7 - Highlights the normal for one of the verts on the head. Figure 8 - Highlights the normal for the corresponding vert on the RA-GUTS body (note how it is pointing off in a different direction). Figure 9 - Shows the same vert on the body after it has been matched to the head using Seam Mender (I've altered the normal draw length for enhanced visibility). My only worry with True Normals patch is the TAB key (apparently it forces the recalculation of normals). But the TAB key is necessary to switch from Edit Mode to Object Mode... Is there a problem with that? I will dock the User Settings window above the 3D View, like the example above, to make sure the "Preserve Imported Normals" is always selected. Tab functionality is unchanged and still goes to edit mode without issue. The true normal version simply allows one to turn off the automatic normal re-calculation selectively. I tend to leave Preserve Imported Normal off until I'm completely done with a model and only turn it on at the very end to correct seam normals prior to final export. If one chose to leave it on, normal re-calculation can still be performed using CTRL+N (outside re-calculation) or SHIFT+CTRL+N (inside re-calculation).
QuiteTheTail Posted October 18, 2015 Author Posted October 18, 2015 Perfect, thank you very much. By the way, I accidentally discovered a minor flaw in headhumanrt4.nif (the head mesh I'm using), present in Robert's Male v5 archive/OMOD. The vertex at the nape of the neck (the one with minimum Y coordinate) have a "twin brother" (double) that prevents to select the entire neck seamline/vertex path. Fixed with ALT+M, Center.
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