Imperial vs Stormcloak - Who did you choose and why?

[Daguy]

Warning of SPOILERS here.

 

I'm doing a speed run each faction on my test character. I'm not going to be taking proper roleplaying characters through the game til the animation problems are sorted and some DLC is released. So far, the 'battles' for the Imperial faction seem a whole lot less epic than the Stormcloak side.

 

As a Stormcloak you attack and invade Whiterun in an epic, and pretty emotionally tearing way (these people are likely familiar to you; the Jarl having been a good ally if you dd the MQ first). As Imperial you stand at a barrier just outside Whiterun and fight a few waves of enemies.

 

In the final battle you either assault the (in my opinion) pretty boring Stormcloak capitol as ah Imperial which already looks like its falling down anyway, or the 'main city' of the game Solitude as a Stormcloak.

 

The places the battles take place in and the events just seem more epic as a Stormcloak. The only part is I don't imagine Tullius and Rikki are as interesting to fight as Ulfric with the voice. But that will be over in seconds either way.

 

-

 

On a moral or strategic front against the Thalmor, and which side would present a stronger front i'm undecided. The dossier of Ulfic from the Thalmor makes it clear that being indecisive is doing more damage than choosing either side. They don't want Imperial or Stormcloak victory.

 

I've seen and read arguements that a united Empire could regroup and has the best chance of fighting the Thalmor and that the Stormcloaks would be unable to do anything but fall before the Thalmor.

 

I've also read (and lean more towards) the idea that combing the fact that the Empire is little more than a vassel state now, letting Thalmor roam the countryside and throwing their own people to the high Elves, and demoralized with an assassinated Emperor (with the way TES works, someone will have killed him, even if not the DB)... this Empire seems to be doomed. Infighting, corruption, a damaged and demoralized warmachine, with Hammerfell embittered, and so forth suggest it won't recover and that Skyrim is just a symptom.

 

The Stomcloaks, while led by a potential egomaniac, with many racist members to his faction (though I don't consider the man himself a racist, since he let the Dunmer stay at all after 'Dunmer of Skyrim' and the Altmer woman who suggest the dark elves do themselves no favors), potentially represent a fresh start. Should they win, and a new High King with soverign power be elected (Ulfric or not) a new Empire might rise from the ashes without the bagage of the old. An alliance with what remains of the Mede Empire, with Hammerfell, and the other races would be a fresh and determined united front against the Thalmor.

 

However, while I lean towards the Stormcloaks, I do see their flaws just as much as the Empire's. How many thngs could go wrong, and how many genuienly nice and good people would de by supportng them. The attack on Whiterun is especially painful, even if it gives the Greymanes vindication.

 

 

Basically, i'm still on the fence and thats unlikely to change. They did well amiking it a lose-lose situation, with an even worse loss if you DON'T choose.

 

So... I want to know what the people of LL chose and why. What are your views?

[Siouliusn]

On my first run I played as a dunmer and was too tempted to choose Strom for one thing : the reminder of the "Morrowind" rebels. But for a "greater good" I went for the empire even if it was not my 1st choice.

So we could stop a rebellion potentialy made by the Thalmor to weaken the empire and finish it later.

 

On the second with a nord char I took the side of Storm,dam that felt good to fight for freedom, on many part you feel like a liberator and indeed the fight is better with the Storm, more epic.

But in the end it's a short term victory. (unless the nords gather Tamriel against the Thalmor and use the Dragonborn as the next Emperor).

[Guest Donkey]

I always choose stormcloak. At least at the start of them game you get the key to the house. Chosing imperial never felt right. And you don't recieve a key to the uncles house. Plus why would you join a side who would want to kill you Rather then let you live ??

[Guest Deliria]

As my first character was an imperial, I went with the Empire. The Stormcloaks appealed to me at first, but Ulfric and a walk around Winterhold helped put me off them quite a lot. I was thinking of joining them on my second playthrough now I'm an elf, but It doesn't feel right yet. It's like choosing between two shitheads and going for the less shitty dude. Hey, just like real life politics.

[bradleyh]

I favor the Stormcloaks, because Lore-wise they stop and reverse the weakening of Snow Throat(High Hrothgar), and reinforce Talos. If the Empire wins Talos is still weakened and the Thalmor have an easier time destroying everything.

I have played both sides on different characters.

I do not like Ulfric, Legate Rikki should have been allowed to live in Skyrim after the Battle for Solitude, Ulfric manipulated her honor to force her to choose death in battle.

[Daguy]

Finished both factons, and afterwards I really do still side with the Stormcloaks now, wheras I was on the fence before. The Stormcloak battles feel more epic as originally noted, but not only that, there is more to them.

 

Retrieveing the Crown for the future High King... rather than just trying to keep it out of his hands. Stepping out of Dragonreach and overlooking Whiterun still aflame (best done at night, for extra effect) after replacing the Jarl with Grey-Mane, rather than being stood at a gate after repulsing an attack. When attacking the Forts, freeing Stormcloak prisoners from a blood-splattered torture chamber rather than just killing troops on every one. And I seriously enjoyed the battle of Solitude more than the alternative.

 

I found the Imperial playthrough to be pretty bland. It felt very much like 'just another day in the Legion'. At the end it felt pretty much like a 'Uh, is that all?' wheras Ulfrics speech felt like a pretty epic setup for future events. Maybe he just has a better script writer, as the general admits he hates speeches. Even the location and audiance has a marked difference. A courtyard in Solitude, with Eliself forced to aquise, with cheerng male and female Stormcloaks... or a snowy pathway and a few faceless Imperial troops. About half as many too. It actually felt, playing them back to back, that the Stormcloak path had more resources dedicated to it.

 

A lot of the flack Ulfric gets is also just flat out wrong. When people call him a racist and condemn him for the grey quarter, no one ever mentons the Altmer woman who has done well for herself in the city, nor the fact that the bitter Innkeeper has an Imperial Legion uniform upstairs in his room. They never note that the Dunmer are well known for being entitled asshats, one even sugesting as much by noting that hard work will earn the Nords respect. And 'Dunmer of Skyrim' may be a response book, but declarng that the Dunmer are going to take Skyrim for themselves after slaughtering the Nords is not paticularly a measured response.

 

Ulfric is a good warrior; but he has a hell of a political mind too. Sparing Elisef? Masterstroke and stopped me from wanting to kill him for the act. Not taking the crown, but waiting for the forgone conclusion of being made High King at the moot (which I'm curious if it will backfire for him in a future DLC, since Elisef survives both endings and might serve to tie thinsg together for the future TES). after he sinsg your praises, even playing as an Elf, its pretty clear you are to take his elf-hate talk as being directed at the Thalmor for the most part.

 

He fully acknoledges the 'gathering shadow/storm' of the Thalmor, and hints at forging alliances to fight them. He tries to spare Rikki more than once, and only kills her when forced. Fittingly for a grey-grey choices onry game, I also had no problem with his killing of the High King. The entire point of the old tradition is to make sure Skyrim has the strongest and smartest King possible. Not only is using the Voice in the duel a show of power that the previous King and most Nords simply couldn't match, the fact that the King could not refuse without losing face shows it was also a masterstroke of intellect. Much like sparing Elisef. This is a man you want leading Skyrim into battle, on the front line, as true Nord Kings should.

 

Also, as a Dunmer test character, he shows another important side - he potentially lets go of his racism if it was ever there. He will gladly announce that you are truly a Stormcloak, if not THE pinnicle of what a Stormcloak should be. No matter your race. For my Dunmer, it bascally solidified an alliance that was started back when the Nods gave the refugees Solstheim. The Dunmer have a home again; in Skyrim with the Nords, because the second most prominent figure of the Stormcloaks after Ulfric is a Dunmer also. Or Bosmer, Khajit, Argonian, Breton, Redguard or hell, even an Altmer.

 

I also, granted from an out of game source, really don't put much stock in how many people think choosing the Stormcloaks is doom for the fight aganst the Thalmor. Putting aside that Ysgramor and his 500 already laid the smackdown on Elves once, and that arguably, the Dragonborn with Skyrim behind them is just as much a threat... does anyone honestly expect that TESVI will make either side the right answer? Seriously?

 

They didn't even end up doing that with Daggerfall.

 

Either, due to the Emporer's death and already weakened Empire crumbling and abandoning Skytim or choosing the Stormcloaks and being too weak to resist the Thalmor, the Thalmore will end up winning. OR, somehow, a vague expilination or left-field/unforseen event will make sure that the Thalmor are defeated no matter what. Unless they do a Warp in the North, then its not going to matter who wins the civil war.

 

As mentioned above, i'm half wondering if they will make Elisef the High Queen after all in some DLC. Or the Dragonborn will use soem Mcguffin in a DLC to make the Thalmor much less of a threat or negate them altogether. Or both.

 

Long post, but just wanted to post my opinions on what I have experianced and noticed the last few days when trying to actually come to a decison.

 

 

[Guest]

I went with the imperials. Funny thing is is that I played as a Nord which is kind of strange since you'd think a nord would side with the Stormcloaks.

 

Why did I choose the empire? I just think that a unified Tamriel would do the world better than having it divided. Plus, you have to remember the Thalmor. They are Tamriel's biggest threat and with Skyrim under the Empire's control then they would have more men, money, resources, and such against the Thalmor, plus many troops stationed in Skyrim could be moved to fight the Thalmor. I play many war games (especially total war) and I am fascinated by warfare (that doesn't mean that I enjoy the mass suffering of peoples though) and that is why I believe that for the better of not just Skyrim, but for Tamriel and Nirn, having the empire restore itself would be best.

 

 

But if given the option, I would definitely choose Sheogorath's side My army of Golden Saints, Dark Seducers and Clown pits shall conquer all! > : D

[Daguy]

Thing is though, no matter which side you choose in this paticular game, the Empire will either thrive or fall anyway. And with the end of the DB storyline, the last half a century, and so forth i'm betting on falling or being re-founded.

 

As I point out above, I seriously doubt Bethesda would program in a wrong choice to the civil war. It would put them in a tough situation for TES VI.

 

You can make a good argument either way for the Empire being doomed or biding time. But metagaming wise I don't think it will matter who wins, and ingame there are good reasons for choosing both sides.

 

[GDelscribe]

The Stormcloaks.

 

Most of them hated me, being a Khajiit.

But I didn't care.

 

Before meeting Ulfric I thought of joining the empire.

But when I heard him speak. His very first speech captured my will and that was it. I was a stormcloak all the way.

[GrimReaper]

Ulfric's voive gave me a (totally non-gay) boner. But after winning the civil war for the Stormcloaks it felt like I chose the wrong side. It just feels like you give the Thalmor a big, nice present - divide and conquer made easy thanks to the dragonborn.

 

It's just that the Thalmor have an easier time defeating the Empire alltogether without the nords helping the Empire. I don't think they would launch an all-out attack at Skyrim. Most likely they will conquer Cyrodiil then they will continue to attack Hammerfell. And if that's done they basically rule the world anyway, even if they do not declare war on Skyrim. They actually don't need Skyrim, if they rule over everything but Skyrim Skyrim is screwed anyways.

[Tupusu]

I put 200 hours into my Skyrim game and didn't choose a side

[thesapien]

I once went Imperial but only up until defending Whiterun. Normally, neither faction is very attractive to me. Plus, there are many other factions that this question ignores, none of which are necessary. But I guess it's like asking, Vampire or Werewolf? for those who are inclined to pick one.

 

I don't necessarily see the Thalmor as wrong, either. They have a pretty good case for their side. Depending on who you believe, they lost their immortality due to a trickster god who fooled their gods into giving up some of their powers for the creation of a human world. Basically, they wish to undo this because they never consented to giving up their immortality. They get a lot of flack for not allowing freedom of religion, but that's not fair in a world where religions might actually be accurate or even true. If Talos is real, then he is a real enemy of the Thalmor.

[Daguy]

I don't necesserily see the Thalmor as wrong in their beliefs, but there is no defending their actions based on it.

 

They want genocide of all Human races, and would happily slaughter the others just because they are not Altmer, and utterly destroy even the cosmic idea of man ever existing on the off chance it will return them to their prior state.

 

Murder down to the last man and woman, elderly and infirm, child and infant. To furthermore destroy their very existance.

 

In TES there are countless paths to divinity. CHIM (which I don't like but aknowledge si part of the Lore), mantling, ancient magical tools and hearts, magics. If being ageless is your bag then there are also plenty of options, even if you don't wish to be a vampire or lich. You can bind yourself to a chosen Daedra in return to being boudn to their realm, such as the case with Nocturnal and Hircine.

 

The Thalmor wish to go for a longshot, that even if they are correct about will never work as long as there is even a single human eluding them on all of Mundus let alone a small group that worships Talos, that requires the death of pretty much everyone.

 

Not only is their overall success almost infinitely unlikely, wiping out all mankind everywhere, they are likely to only end up with an Elven Empire that they can't sustain. One just has to look at the Ayleids and Dwemer for proof of that.

 

[itchymonkey]

 

As mentioned above' date=' i'm half wondering if they will make Elisef the High Queen after all in some DLC. Or the Dragonborn will use soem Mcguffin in a DLC to make the Thalmor much less of a threat or negate them altogether. Or both.

 

[/quote']

 

I actually suspect the Thalmor is a new threat Bethesda is creating as a backdrop for when a new TESVI gets released, with a full fledged Thalmor invasion being the main storyline.

 

[galgat]

it was the imperials that tried to cut my head off. Screw them..LOL

[SummGai]

i joined the storm cloaks cause i like the colour blue (v^w^)>c(_)

[thesapien]

Daguy, but don't their actions follow from their beliefs?

 

I'm not sure I understand all of the lore. Humans are called "mortal" even though they seem to be immortal souls? So Thalmor aren't destroying people like Alduin can when devouring souls? Killing in Skyrim isn't really killing, merely sending them on their way?

[Ramses]

OP, you give Beth way too much credit. Do you actually think all the scripting and nuances you describe actually exist within Skyrim? Yes, too much credit, indeed.

 

Beth slapped this together. They started off by adding some 'epic-ish' elements to the Stormcloak invasions and realized it was taking too much dev time. The Imperial rushes are the victim of Project Management and producers clamoring to get this shit out the door.

 

Beth's attitude has ALWAYS been; put the shit out, get the patches to cover the basics, let those modder kids fix the rest. Pump out a DLC to cash in while the property is still out of bargain bins.

[Blackbryre]

I agonised over this choice for ages. I did my best to apply whatever Kantian and Utilitarian philosophies I could, but the choice still wasn't clear. On one end you have racial persecution, and on the other, you have religious persecution. Both sides really violate personal autonomy to some degree, so I had a hard time choosing. In the end, I made the choice on racial grounds... being a "Grey skin" and all, I went with the Empire. I think they did a great job depicting shades of grey, but in the end the choice seemed very unfulfilling.

[Ruerl]

I do not think that either side is right or wrong, where I go and who I join depend entirely on the character I am playing. I cannot take Whiterun and face Jarl Balgruf however having deposed him without feeling some bad conscience though.

 

And on the whole racism thing, racism is rather common in Skyrim, empire -or- Stormcloak, and while Ulfric himself may not be a racist a lot of those serving him most certainly are. And don't forget that he started this civil war not just because of the thing with Talos, but because he wants to be high king. All in all I cannot really say much positive about that guy, but then, the empire is not exactly saints either. And wanting to cut my head off definitly makes me dislike them.

 

All in all, there are a lot of shades of grey and I can understand where both sides come from perfectly fine. I do not think that anyone benefits from the civil war either, well, except the Thalmor and Alduin.

 

Speaking of the Thalmor, i'd love if it was possible to join them on my high elf (I disagree that they are going on a genocide rampage based on belief from the mythic age btw, they look more like they are set on conquering and enslaving everyone to me).

 

OP' date=' you give Beth way too much credit. Do you actually think all the scripting and nuances you describe actually exist within Skyrim? Yes, too much credit, indeed.

 

Beth slapped this together. They started off by adding some 'epic-ish' elements to the Stormcloak invasions and realized it was taking too much dev time. The Imperial rushes are the victim of Project Management and producers clamoring to get this shit out the door.[/quote']

 

Well, Beth has also always had the attittude that making us make our own content enriches the game, its really a pearl of a studio compared to most of the other ones out there.

 

I do not think you are fair though, what they do with this type of game is that they set the mood with all the various NPC's you encounter, and then let you experience it yourself. You may call it lazy that they don't fill in more with the gaps, but I rather find that the gaps are designed intentionally, for you to fill yourself.

[Revelator]

If there was a third choice or a possibility to attack Thalmor afterwards it would be a different story. Anyhow, I first went empire, afterwards I went stormcloak (but the only reason was I couldn't come longer than "battle at winterhold" or something like that, the chick wouldn't go with "This is your mission" she just never spoke again. Anyhow, seemingly that bug has been fixed /hopefully.

 

Even tho whatshisface leader of stormcloak is good with words, follow him blindly would just cause more suffering. Listen to both sides, closely...

The empire didn't want to have a war with the stormcloaks (since many of them used to fight together and so on), while Ulfric and his gang... "Down with the elfs, DOWN with everyone" "Freedom for NORDS" very racial spesific... "We rule, you should run away" while the empire does do it for better reasons.

 

Hell, even if Thalmor did ban the religion, empire turned a blind eye on it.

but because of Ulfric started the war Thalmor used a weakness to make it into a full rage / war. Thalmor is the only one who wins on the war tho, less people who fight against them.

 

 

TL:DR

My choice for Empire was for the longer hold, stability. And hell if you help them enough maybe they will start listening to you, if not collect a crapload of dragons, make all bow down to you as their GOD.. MOAHAHA.. (j/k)

To be fair, who would have the balls to fight against a guy who killed (possibly) one of the biggest threats in the world. Well he and some ghosts.

 

A guy who went to Valhalla and back again, without dying once. (well...)

 

OH I so wish YOU could become the emperor, and do some changes. Since you are dragonborn afterall in most of the generations the emperor was always a dragonborn.

 

Wasn't much of a TL:DR was it :/

But yeah, I keep hoping for a mod which makes you able to start your own town, which can grow into a city which then again can start taking control over other places, which in the end makes you able to become the emperor if enough places has been taken over.

[Kara]

I think my avatar makes it pretty clear who I chose, damn those frakin' stormcloaks!

 

If I was playing a male character I'd choose Empire too, marry Jarl Elisf the Fair and complete the Dark Brotherhood missions...pretty obvious at the point that the Dragonborn would be the new Emperor of Tamriel.

[ultrabear137]

I fully well intended to join the imperials right away even after the opening cut scene, then i found out about the white gold concordant(or what ever its called). In Morrowind i was a proud Dunmer living as a simple grunt in the Imperial legion, my elf would have gladly died for that empire. But forsaking Talos is unforgivable. Never would i follow an empire who would ever turn their back on the one man that made them what they are. All Men and Mer Owe Talos more then they know. Because of that I have never been able to join the imperials and i'v made 4 characters on skyrim.

[sbire]

first time i was choosing the stormcloths... but they are a bunch of guys without structure.

 

second time i'll choose imperial, because i'm a fan of the roman empire and these guys reminds to them. and there new armor looks awesome (roman retex). *hooaah*

[TalMaheRa]

I've already given the civil war way, WAY more thought than it probably deserves. The only actual consequence of picking a side is Thalmor everywhere or no Thalmor. So, the only decision that needs to be made is: Do you want to keep killing elves, or are you bored with it yet? You're given an awful lot of nifty toys for just that purpose.

 

I've plotted and killed and maneuvered for both sides, and in the end there are too many variables to scry a "best path" towards the Second Great War. Only time and DLC will sort them out. Do what you want.

 

That said: I'm trying a High Elf Mage Imperial run. The last few Stormcloak runs were getting stale, though I still seem to have the habit of setting Thalmor patrols on fire. I'll call it revenge for Ocato and not lose much sleep over it.