Viability of a Nexus Alternative?

[thesapien]

Kashiwaba Tomoed

 

I didn't catch that you were talking about multiple download methods. With that, I totally agree. Like I said before in this thread, more options is usually better. (Well, except too many options can cause user thought lag! but this is not one of those cases because we're just talking about a small set.)

 

My only other concern isn't really a concern but a jab at the community. Will some mod authors be afraid for their mods being shared on a P2P network, you know, the whole letting it go free into the wild thing?

 

I do love the way P2P networks work. They seem more "organic", complex and efficient at the same time, mimicking life. The ones that keep running without central control and with variable nodes blow my mind.

 

My favorite over the years has been using the eDonkey network with the eMule client but was wondering if you'd recommend any others I should try? I recently got a warning from my ISP, basically passing on a formal complaint that was handed to them by one of those third party trackers trolling for people like me.

[Masterpandabear]

Torrents can be handled privately, there is private trackers that need you to be logged in to start/resume the download so the files wont really be in the "wild"

 

As for the ISP warnings, most of the time they just that warnings (in USA that is). The worse that can happen is your ISP cancelling the service (in which case the contract may not even allow it) at least right now. Regardless the files from this alternative site should not be tracked since it will be handled by the site itself.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Panda

However an alternative would stay being that: just an alternative...unless it comes hard and offering something truly different or/and more attractive. This would make keeping the site afloat harder.

Indeed, p2p based downloads supplementing regular DL methods (and keeping costs way down) would simply be one method of making the initial setup easier. Past that, it comes down to the content, and getting word out.

 

thesapien

My only other concern isn't really a concern but a jab at the community. Will some mod authors be afraid for their mods being shared on a P2P network, you know, the whole letting it go free into the wild thing?

 

if they share it on the nexus, or any other site, it's in the wild to start with.

 

Putting the mod out to the public is the same, regardless of the method used.

 

I do love the way P2P networks work. They seem more "organic", complex and efficient at the same time, mimicking life. The ones that keep running without central control and with variable nodes blow my mind.

 

Oh this would be a centrally controlled one I imagine.

I've seen a few sites here and there that did it this way, in essence the server itself (IE: the website itself) seeds the file, but only actually gets involved if no user is seeding, or the DL speed is simply going to slow.

It is an EXTREMELY efficient method at keeping costs down, while quality (IE: DL speed) up way high.

 

 

My favorite over the years has been using the eDonkey network with the eMule client but was wondering if you'd recommend any others I should try? I recently got a warning from my ISP, basically passing on a formal complaint that was handed to them by one of those third party trackers trolling for people like me.

 

edonkey and emule are p2p, but otherwise unconnected to torrents.

Also their networks are not exactly the most secure.

 

As for torrent clients, for legitimate use of course, I would recommend the uTorrent cleint.

 

As for ISP warnings for the proposed nexus alt site, I would not worry.

Quite simply put, it would be entirely legal and above board, and the only potential issue would be if someone attempted to upload something illegal.

So in otherwords, no more risky than the nexus is.

 

As for the new ideas/content for the site, I'd say design it not just for mods but, as I've said before, mod teams and even ideas.

 

If it's used to make getting mods going easier, it could mean both more and better content, as well as encouraging people to participate. For example, take one person with an idea and a decent idea how it could be implemented, team that person up with someone able to do the actual modding who lacks a clear idea.

 

Think of it as a mix of social media and online dating, and apply it to both searching for mods as well as developing them.

[thesapien]

Yeah, my last question was off topic, really. Makes sense the response here would be for "legitimate use". Maybe I'll start a new thread.

[Guest Donkey]

p2p has 1 major disadvantage. seeding.. meaning if you own just 1 pc. i don't trust my pc on the internet while playing off-line games. Not enough seeders meaning the download would eventually stop.

 

And from past experience there are allot of people who just jag downloads then when it's there turn to seed stop seeding. (Known as leechers).

 

Also i don't really trust p2p with allot virusses spreading out there.. So in all you would be better off not uploading then going this way. Also allot of countries are now activily taking down torrents everywhere.

 

So to me either stick with this site only, or if possible use mediafire for as long as possible. All else is not relevent.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

As for the seeds, yes I've mentioned that in brief previously.

However, I've seen sites that used that approach to great effect.

In essence, the server itself seeds when no user seeders are avalible.

 

Furthermore, you add an incentive to seeding by way of quicker DL speeds and other methods.

 

As I've said previously, this would primarily work for 'hot' files that are DLd a lot, either because new, very popular, or ubiquitous (IE: BOSS and mod managers).

Also the more popular body packs would also no doubt be very useful here, too.

 

So to me either stick with this site only, or if possible use mediafire for as long as possible. All else is not relevant.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth, unless you can be sure of getting a decent amount of seed funding to get the site going in the first place.

using alternative download means would simply help reduce the bill a bit, possibly a lot.

 

Also i don't really trust p2p with allot virusses spreading out there.. So in all you would be better off not uploading then going this way. Also allot of countries are now activily taking down torrents everywhere.

 

So what's to stop someone from uploading a virus the way the nexus works.

All you have to do to have this work is have some basic security scripting and moderation of files.

 

Have a script on the server that scans files (including .rar and other archive formats contents) and flags files with .exe's and other red flag items for moderator review, and past that the mods keep an eye out.

 

As for the piracy...

Countries are taking down PIRACY, not torrents.

The torrent is simply the means of transmission.

If it is used for LEGAL purposes and kept clean there is no legal problem at all.

It would create JUST as much risk as the nexus currently has.

[Guest Donkey]

Actually even nexus proved to be dangerous on occation with some form of virus adds. Even mods who where uploaded there some contained virus.

 

I had to format my pc a few years ago because some mod contained a virus and my scanner did not detect it as a virus till it was too late.

 

So now before downloading anything i still check if the modder is actually genuine one. And always wait a few days before downloading it. By that time i won't have to worry since some people would have already warned about it containing a virus etc..

 

Well most of them can easily be identified, worse case spelling or description do not contain enough detail or the file is simple to small for what it claimed to be. In these cases you can be assured something is up.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

Actually even nexus proved to be dangerous on occation with some form of virus adds

 

You just proves my point.

p2p is no more dangerous than traditonal direct downloads or offsite hosting.

 

Plus it has the benefit of, if used on high traffic items and high file size items, of reducing the sites bandwith usage, and thusly the sites bill from it's hosting provider.

 

As for offsite hosting, actually that's the most risky as you do not control your files. Someone on that end could easily edit files or replace them.

 

Not to mention the fact that DL sites like that are at great risk of being took down because their sheer volume PREVENTS stopping all piracy, and they don't have the monetary/PR clout that companies like google has (IE: with youtube) to avoid being penalized for people abusing their website.

 

lets say the nexus were to use a p2p method for it's 10 most downloaded files of the past seven days and the ten files that of the past seven days consumed the most bandwidth in downloads (albiet this is a moot point for the nexus with offsite DLs).

 

For both categories, I'd imagine that there would always be a FEW people downloading.

 

That means a few people always seeding.

[ahrimangame]

nexus admin and ppl in charge are mostly bunch of idiots who think they are leading army of SS,

that idiots banned my friend for explaining someone what is ripped mod!!!

and banned my other fried because he said i have ripped mods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MANY good modders left the oblivion moding because of this nexus assholes! they dont care if ur a great modder who made BEST mods ever! u say or do something they dont like, they will ban u simple as THAT!

this reaction of them already damaged fallout and oblivion modding community alot! i dont wana lose more great modders!

great moders like speed buster OR Earache and many other great modders who have been insulted by nexus.

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

And that's why we really NEED a nexus alternative.

 

[darkone999]

I am new here but I want to add this.The nexus is a great site.I post comments there sometimes but never have uploaded a mod.I have gave so little and in return got so much.On the other hand the power of the nexus is its traffic such as me and the modders..Thanks modders for all ur hard work and time.I think this site is great due to the nich you cover.Helps keep the morality police in check and out of the way.If the time comes the nexus falls out of favor then be open to pick up the fallout (no pun intended) hehe..Anyways like what u have here so far keep up the good work....

[Kashiwaba Tomoe]

stuff

 

great way to completely ignore all the points raised in this thread, all the modders that nexus has ran out of modding, etc etc.

[Schmendrick]

Hello everyone, this is my first post in LL. Over the past few days, I've been reading this and other conversations about nexus alternatives, colaborative modding and a very interesting text from Wyre about what he's called "cathedral modding" and "parlor modding"

 

I belive that a new modding site sould not only be an alternative to nexus, but also to a predominant 'parlor modding' scheme that doesn't favors noobs or small modders. In such spirit, I'll purpose the following:

 

5- modding. Perhaps have some system whereby modders can collaborate easier' date=' and find people to work on a project easier.

[/quote']

 

The user's profile should include a number of options about his/hers modding abilities, like 'Modeling', 'Texturing', 'Scripting', 'Construction Set' or 'complete noob' etc, and maybe in various levels: 'Basic', 'Intermediate' and 'Advanced'. Alternatively, each member/modder should have the option to specify if he/she is open to requests or if currently unavialable.

 

So, when you come up with an idea for a mod, maybe even having it discussed in a forum, you register a new project and can invite other modders to colaborate. Also the project is posted on a board, of course.

 

Project files can be marked as 'WIP', 'alpha', 'beta' and 'release', and only 'beta' and 'release' are visible to the public; 'alpha' can be seen by invited testers.

 

Also having a knowledge database would be great, or at least some links to the wikies, so the newbies can find info.

 

Well that's it for now, please excuse my horrible english.

[lemonbalm]

Well that's it for now' date=' please excuse my horrible english.

[/quote']

I always giggle a little when someone says this, because generally their English is much better than that of a native speaker. You did fine.

[thesapien]

Hello everyone' date=' this is my first post in LL. Over the past few days, I've been reading this and other conversations about nexus alternatives, colaborative modding and a very interesting text from Wyre about what he's called "cathedral modding" and "parlor modding"

 

I read that a month or two ago and thought how awesome, but was also a bit pessimistic in assuming maybe it was too late and a thing of the past.

 

To bring back parlor modding and help form a new community around it is something I can fully endorse.

 

Fantastic first post and welcome to LL!

[sen4mi]

I just stumbled over this thread, so I am going to try to answer ALL OF IT! YAY!! oh, maybe not quite that much...

 

Anyways, the way to build up a site that can support the modding community is:

 

Part 1: start somewhere

Part 2: fix issues that arise and make things better

Part 3: do not give up

 

*cough* see? easy!

 

Anyways, LL could become a major mod site, but right now it has far too limited storage capabilities, no useful search (for mods), no feeds for people wanting to track changes, and so on. So those issues would have to be fixed. Also, sometimes the site goes down for a while and I see it on a backup server where some parts of it do not work. So those are all issues which would have to be addressed (and funded).

 

Meanwhile, for torrents: torrents address some of the funding issue (everyone chips in with their machine) but they require people with full internet access -- if you are behind a NAT you are automaticaly a leech. So a viable torrent system has to be designed to work with some significant part of the population being leeches -- some people have no choice about this, other people may have the choice but have priorities which favor avoiding torrent altogether over using torrent (network security being one example, but I am not going to try to enumerate all people here).

 

Finally.. things that could be improved on nexus. There's a darkone blog post on nexus listing some of those things, including alternatives to whitelist/blacklist. But technology is not the only issue there, of course.

 

One place where I think that nexus can improve (aside from the moderation issues)... I cannot go to nexus and say: give me a list of all mods that have downloadable files that have changed (in reverse chrono order by most recently updated downloadable file) that can be freely used in other mods. Instead, I have to work through the recent changes list and find the changes that are changes in downloads -- there's no way to distinguish a mod where the most recent content is from last year from a mod that has new download available except by visiting the mod. And then the same goes for copyright terms except its even harder to read notices about copying than dates...

[prideslayer]

LL has the potential to grow to be a central hub. IMHO, the best thing that can be done has already been done: Start a site that attracts a community that actually gives a shit about the site. From here, it just needs to grow organically.

 

To be more mainstream, a slightly more restrictive approach to adult mods will have to be made. Not restrictive in what is allowed, but restrictive in how is allowed to access them. Slightly more robust age verification would go a long ways towards other sites allowing LL to advertise there, and LL being able to attract more mainstream advertisers.

 

There are already areas here for non-adult mods. What we need to see is more activity in those areas. That's the #1 thing that will attract new people to the site. That said, I'm more interested personally in attracting the right people than I am in just attracting "more" people.

 

If the place is overrun by self-righteous modders and entitled players, no amount of fair handed moderation can save it. Heavy handed moderators are not a problem, they are a symptom. So long as the site remains a comfortable and easy to use resource, that doesn't place undue emphasis on the "popularity" of mods, does not "abandon" itself to heavy-handed moderators when things do get out of hand, and continues to encourage sharing and collaboration, it will succeed.

[luinil]

 

To be more mainstream' date=' a slightly more restrictive approach to adult mods will have to be made. Not restrictive in what is allowed, but restrictive in how is allowed to access them. Slightly more robust age verification would go a long ways towards other sites allowing LL to advertise there, and LL being able to attract more mainstream advertisers.

 

[/quote']

 

Wouldn't a lot of the mods(the good ones!) offend many people in the mainstream such as legion/raperS/creatures etc?.I could be way off base but is possible for LL cater to such divergent tastes?

[prideslayer]

 

To be more mainstream' date=' a slightly more restrictive approach to adult mods will have to be made. Not restrictive in what is allowed, but restrictive in how is allowed to access them. Slightly more robust age verification would go a long ways towards other sites allowing LL to advertise there, and LL being able to attract more mainstream advertisers.

 

[/quote']

 

Wouldn't a lot of the mods(the good ones!) offend many people in the mainstream such as legion/raperS/creatures etc?.I could be way off base but is possible for LL cater to such divergent tastes?

 

Yes, but so what? Nobody has a right to not be offended.

[thesapien]

Yeah, and even over on a site like Nexus there are many who seem offended by a mod not being merely "lore friendly" as they deem fit. As others have mentioned, even over there, it's probably better to go ahead and include a bit of something for everybody, but maybe have a better way of organizing and searching so as to keep the mods people don't want to see out of sight so they don't have to sort through them or see them every time they visit the front page. It's been a few months since I've tried using their search, but kind of suspected its failure was part of the reason people would tend to flame on mods they didn't like. Something like a translation mod, especially, should never show in search results unless the tag for a translation is selected and not show up otherwise.

[rylasasin]

Yeah' date=' and even over on a site like Nexus there are many who seem offended by a mod not being merely "lore friendly" as they deem fit. As others have mentioned, even over there, it's probably better to go ahead and include a bit of something for everybody, but maybe have a better way of organizing and searching so as to keep the mods people don't want to see out of sight so they don't have to sort through them or see them every time they visit the front page. It's been a few months since I've tried using their search, but kind of suspected its failure was part of the reason people would tend to flame on mods they didn't like. Something like a translation mod, especially, should never show in search results unless the tag for a translation is selected and not show up otherwise.

[/quote']

 

The tag systems seen on even the most rudimentary of imageboards and blacklists of said tags seem to work moderately well.

[LordJerle]

I would like to point out (something I found out myself not too long ago with my own site), that though you may pay for unlimited bandwidth and space from some hosting services for so much a month, you'd have to pay a premium for a dedicated server, as in most of the "unlimited space and bandwidth" plans still have a limit on CPU usage in their hosting agreements, and any and every service provided on a site, including forum logins, site logins, download requests, searches, whatever scripts may be running, all use cpu every time they're accessed. The alternative would be for some rich person with gigabit internet and the willingness to buy a bunch of blade servers with gobs of hard drive space to host it. That's the only two ways I can see getting a meaningful nexus alternative off the ground.

[prideslayer]

Sites like this one and nexus don't run on shared hosting, a dedicated server (and usually more than one) is a requirement. I rent a few myself, and they run about $100 a month. There are no CPU limits or anything like that, but bandwidth is limited. You're charged a monthly premium for a faster uplink speed; usually 10mbit is included, and the cost is higher for 100mbit or 1gbit. You're charged more too for monthly total transfer beyond some limit, usually 1, 2, or 5 TB/month.

 

Many providers simply charge you based on average bandwidth for the month instead, calculated as 95th percentile.

[LordJerle]

If I ever win the lotto, I'll buy a server cluster just to host on *nod nod*

[deathkitten]

I found a spinoff thread about this here but it seems like this would be the better thread for this stuff to be discussed, if people can stay serious

 

Myself, I actually have my own personal site (so vain ) and am the owner of a medium-sized site unrelated to games that's been in the media a few times and got it's own Wikipedia article and stuff.

 

I think you have a serious chance of starting something up, as it looks like the atmosphere on the Nexus site is very rotten, in the other thread I saw a good quote:

The nexus network has one primary flaw' date=' whihc as noted already, its administration/moderation team. The moderation team does not understand how to moderate without bias or evenhandedness. As stated prevously by others, Nexus moderators will often ban on a whim and without consideration. Its a side effect of the site growing to its current size with a largely untrained and non-professional Admin/mod team.

 

Think of it this way. Its sort of a social club over there. Either you're part of the protected group where you will alwyas be given the benefit of the doubt, or you're shark-chum. [/quote']

 

This is something I have seen TIME AND TIME AGAIN in internet and real life organisations that don't have a strict structure it becomes based on cliques, it's even worse if the owner of the website is that type of person the situation can be come unrepairable. If you look at Prisonexp.org and read through it, actually read it, the psychology of how this happens very well known.

 

 

I think your best bet might be to work on this site and revamp it, make it a more general site but one that does not discriminate against people with more open policies and atmosphere. Then you wouldn't need to ghetto-ise yourself. Basically, give the site a new more professional style, a new name (lovers lab doesn't really tell people on google what your site is about, and isn't really appropriate for a more general site) that makes it obvious it's about mods and well, Build It and They Will Come is the thing, you don't have to worry about "creating content" (as I saw in that other thread people suggesting making mods specifically for the new site etc) as much as making something that people want to use Get away from the adult connotations that scare of people and just make it into a general site that retains the laidback more liberal feel than how they apparently are at Nexus, and people will swarm to you. Create a big meltingpot where everyone is free