Mixed opinions on Cleaning Bethesda .esm files

[Anatriax]

I've read several places to clean the Bethesda .esm/.esp files with xEdit. I've also read several places NOT to clean them with xEdit. 

Which is true? 

I know with Skyrim and Oblivion you have to, but the one place says that those dirty edits are required by some mods? Huh? 

[RitualClarity]

Properly cleaning them will be the best way to do this. Follow Gopher's videos which you can find online.

 

What will happen is the references you have that are active etc will be disabled but still there. Which means if a mod does use those assets you won't get a crash however it also means that the game won't be running with possible scripts and assets that it don't need to function. . Gopher explains it very well in his tutorial for Skyrim cleaning..

 

Then make backup of the esms so that if you have to verify cache you can restore without having to clean them again.

[Anatriax]

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with cleaning mods. I've just heard mixed opinions on doing it with the Fallout games. Tbh, I've gotten to the point where I don't really trust anyone's opinion outside of LL, unless I check with the experts here. 

I like this community more than just about any other I've found. Most of us are helpful, very informative, and like to joke a bit, too. A combination of things I haven't found anywhere. 

Thanks, Ritual. I appreciate it <3

[terrorofmorrowind]

Wait you do this too for fallout 3 and NV? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT! No wonder i kept crashing all the damn time...

 

The more you know. But this was pretty stupid of me for not doing it

[Anatriax]

Wait you do this too for fallout 3 and NV? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT! No wonder i kept crashing all the damn time...

 

The more you know. But this was pretty stupid of me for not doing it

 

Just make sure that if you plan on installing TTW that you do it BEFORE you clean Fallout 3. Or else you won't be able to install TTW. It will say that your files can't patch.

[Imperfection]

Two schools of thought here:

 

1. There is the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it", hundreds of players use those esms just as they are with dirty ITM and UDR records and it works fine (as far as a Bethesda game goes that is). So if you don't have any issues with your game or dont see any conflict in xedit then safer to leave alone in my opinion.

 

2. Or you can clean them and they will probably be fine as they are just duplicate ITM and UDR records, again check in xedit with your mod load order after cleaning to see if something new has come up.

 

Keep in mind that if you do a steam verify it will most likely replace these as the CRC will not match so you might want to back them before and after cleaning.

 

I read this post below in the TTW forums though its a couple years old and xedit has had many revisions since then, the question would be is removing ITM and UDR reords in original ESM ok? I think asking in the xedit devs nexus page or in the TTW site would be the only difinitive answer. The link below has Zilav comments and he is one of the xedit devs.

 

https://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/cleaning-mods

 

[Smokermegadrive]

It's not recommended if you use Tale of the Two Wasteland, because the installer and the game refuse to work with clean Bethesda ESM in any of the two games
I don't know about the base games, but i will do it at least in FO3 if you don't plan to use TTW, for FNV make sure before doing that because i find this one pretty unstable

[Anatriax]

That's one of the places I read it, was on TTW Forums. They said "Fallout is not Skyrim or Oblivion, and a lot of the ITM/UDRs are needed for some mods to work, specifically TTW and converted FO3>FONV mods."

I, for one, am planning on using TTW... if I can ever get my freaking DOF in ENB to work properly >.<

[DoctaSax]

ITMs don't matther much when you're talking about the DLCs which are always at the top of your LO and should be in a fixed order. There's probably no harm keeping DLCs as they are, ITM-wise, as long as they're in the right order. UDRs - I don't really know. Deleting refs that you can just as well disable always sounded like a crap idea in case something else wants to refer to that ref. I used to clean my DLCs of both and never had a problem, or at least one I could trace back to that. With TTW I may not bother with the ITMs if they honestly rely on them being there, even though I don't see a good reason why other than the actual patching that happens during the install.

 

ITMs are more an issue with mods due to wild edits, and cleaning those are what the cleaning functionality was really made for. I usually avoid mods that insist ITMs belong there to make them work - I'm sure in most cases there are other options. Then again, I had this one record in SOFO that was shown as a wild edit while it wasn't (a flag on a reference was changed but the version of FNVEdit I used at the time didn't seem to see the difference), so maybe others are in the same boat sometimes.

[Gameplayer]

Just follow the TTW instructions on cleaning.

 

I have had issues with the Fallout games due to cleaning records.

 

Methods and accepted practices have changed quite a bit since the Fallout scene, but the mods from back then are still from before the practices changed so ya don't clean those.

[Anatriax]

Pretty much what I was thinking. Following the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" line of thinking.

I know the S.T.E.P. Guides I use for the base games say to clean them, but meh. Idk. I love those guys over there. They're super informative... but I've found some things in the guides break my game, instead of making it run better. It's kinda just trial and error.

[RitualClarity]

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with cleaning mods. I've just heard mixed opinions on doing it with the Fallout games. Tbh, I've gotten to the point where I don't really trust anyone's opinion outside of LL, unless I check with the experts here. 

 

I like this community more than just about any other I've found. Most of us are helpful, very informative, and like to joke a bit, too. A combination of things I haven't found anywhere. 

 

Thanks, Ritual. I appreciate it <3

 

No problem. I haven't cleaned Skyrim or any games for years and never really had a problem that was ever directed to the fact the masters were dirty. however having cleaned the mods later I did experience a more stable and crash/glitch free gaming. Sorry for the confused post.. I hadn't realized that you were indeed understanding the cleaning process.. lol. Well at least others reading this can get the source to clean their Skyrim mods and see what Gopher states.. .

 

As others have mentioned TTW advises not to clean,  I would differ to the TTW site and their instructions. Many claim that TTW is actually more stable than either of the base games by themselves. I have experienced this first hand as well. In this case I would even recommend not to mess with it. If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.. . however playing the games separately.. yes give it a try if you experience any glitches etc.

 

keep in mind most of the issues aren't related to the dirty masters. They are related to heavy mod load order with heavy scripting from various individuals not to mention overwriting various files from dozens of mods. this requires loads of work.

 

As I am sure you experienced in the past a lighter load order (both mod content wise as well as number wise) creates a more stable game in general regardless of the masters being dirty or the various conflicts.

[Anatriax]

Yep. I'm having some issues with TTW, though :/ blah. 

I'm only running about 75 plugins, but I'm crashing as soon as I load a save, or start a new one :/ 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

I've always had issues with TTW. I can never get past the 10 years later flash screen. CTD, I always have to load a new vegas save and travel backwards. And my the previous version I had used before giving up with TTW, it would CTD once I used the electrical switch to travel to DC. Not like the intro to FO3 matters to me. But I would like to start from level 1 coming out of vault 101 for once with TTW.

[Anatriax]

I had it working somewhat stable... I just can't get past the thing of ENB not doing what it's supposed to do. Before I installed TTW all was fine. Install TTW, load up the game, no DOF, no SSAO, black skies.... blah. Screw that. I'll go back to managing 2 separate games.

[Guest]

As Doctasax explained, me too I don't see a lot of sense in that.

 

And not only for ITM but also for UDR. Of course disabling deleted refs doesn't harm anyone, however the "risk" you run if you don't do it is very little: some modder who doesn't own DLCs (...) makes a mod that modifies one of the cells used as passage (abandoned bos bunker, canyon wreckage, northern passage) (!!!). If this happens, someone from the 90% of people who own DLCs (because after 5 years of Steam sales, a lot of people own them) will post a message like "doesn't work. CTD".

 

So... if a game CTDs, blaming the lack of cleaning of ESMs is pretty much a blasphemy for me.

[jaam]

That's one of the places I read it, was on TTW Forums. They said "Fallout is not Skyrim or Oblivion, and a lot of the ITM/UDRs are needed for some mods to work, specifically TTW and converted FO3>FONV mods."

 

I, for one, am planning on using TTW... if I can ever get my freaking DOF in ENB to work properly >.<

 

That is pure bullshit  NEVER believe that. GOD how come the internet always remember the wrong advice and never the proper one!

[RitualClarity]

Yep. I'm having some issues with TTW, though :/ blah. 

 

I'm only running about 75 plugins, but I'm crashing as soon as I load a save, or start a new one :/ 

 

Check the TTW site. there are some ini tweaks that are needed to be added to get it to work properly. .

 

Step 2

You need to make an edit to your .INI files so that you start the game properly.  This is normally done by the .fomod when it is installed but sometimes for some reason a manual edit is necessary:

• The files you're looking for are C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FalloutNV\Fallout.ini and C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FalloutNV\FalloutPrefs.ini
• You may also want to make the changes in FalloutDefault.ini in the game folder as well, if you use the normal game launcher for some reason.  Using that launcher overwrites Fallout.ini with the values in FalloutDefault.ini every time it's run. 
• Make these changes:
  • SCharGenQuest = 001FFFF8
  • sIntroMovie = (yes this one is blank on purpose, it needs to be blank)
  • bLoadFaceGenHeadEGTFiles = 1

[Anatriax]

 

Yep. I'm having some issues with TTW, though :/ blah. 

 

I'm only running about 75 plugins, but I'm crashing as soon as I load a save, or start a new one :/ 

 

Check the TTW site. there are some ini tweaks that are needed to be added to get it to work properly. .

 

Step 2

You need to make an edit to your .INI files so that you start the game properly.  This is normally done by the .fomod when it is installed but sometimes for some reason a manual edit is necessary:

• The files you're looking for are C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FalloutNV\Fallout.ini and C:\Users\YourName\Documents\My Games\FalloutNV\FalloutPrefs.ini
• You may also want to make the changes in FalloutDefault.ini in the game folder as well, if you use the normal game launcher for some reason.  Using that launcher overwrites Fallout.ini with the values in FalloutDefault.ini every time it's run. 
• Make these changes:
  • SCharGenQuest = 001FFFF8
  • sIntroMovie = (yes this one is blank on purpose, it needs to be blank)
  • bLoadFaceGenHeadEGTFiles = 1

 

 

Yeah, I fixed it. Everything is/was running smooth. I removed TTW, though. For some reason, the graphical enhancements of ENB aren't working right, and I've messed with NV enough, for now. I just want to sit back and play. LOL