NMM vs MO -What're the Pros and Cons-

[AstarteN7]

I hear a lot of bad things about NMM and some of the more advance people here favor MO over NMM. Can anyone care to explain this to me? I have got to the point where I have a lot of mods installed, and using the best possible mod manager would be good. 

[xgkf]

One of the most notable benefits to Mod Organizer, imo, is that it basically lets you install as many mods as you want without ever even touching Skyrim's default vanilla Data folder.

 

You can install pretty much everything to a separate folder, keeping every installed mod separate from one another (you never have to actually overwrite a single file), so if you ever want to upgrade, change, or remove a mod, you'll never have to worry about remembering which files went with which mod or accidentally removing something you shouldn't have.

[Killikrates~2014]

NMM is barely a step above Steam Workshop subscribing. I used Wrye\Bain as an installer previously, but there is no reason not to switch to Mod Organizer immediately. The STEP Forum has a wiki guide to Mod Organizer to help you get started. Mod Organizer will do everything NMM is currently doing for you, including handling Nexus links the same, and it offers many more functions to explore as you are ready. It's great for conflict resolution, and you can even setup "profiles", separate load orders of different mods for each character you play.

[AstarteN7]

One of the most notable benefits to Mod Organizer, imo, is that it basically lets you install as many mods as you want without ever even touching Skyrim's default vanilla Data folder.

 

You can install pretty much everything to a separate folder, keeping every installed mod separate from one another (you never have to actually overwrite a single file), so if you ever want to upgrade, change, or remove a mod, you'll never have to worry about remembering which files went with which mod or accidentally removing something you shouldn't have.

 

That is a huge benefit but how does it resolve around the idea that some mods should override files of another mod for example, replacing the default textures in the CBBE body with SG Female Texture Re-newel. 

[AstarteN7]

NMM is barely a step above Steam Workshop subscribing. I used Wrye\Bain as an installer previously, but there is no reason not to switch to Mod Organizer immediately. The STEP Forum has a wiki guide to Mod Organizer to help you get started. Mod Organizer will do everything NMM is currently doing for you, including handling Nexus links the same, and it offers many more functions to explore as you are ready. It's great for conflict resolution, and you can even setup "profiles", separate load orders of different mods for each character you play.

 

Thanks, I will look into that guide. Would it be a good idea to switch mid way through a play through? The way in which mods are installed between NMM and MO are totally different but in theory should be exactly the same gameplay wise but I fear the worse as an amateur going into something new as MO.

[Pavaux]

Okay, thanks for posting this. I had no idea that Mod Organiser was that good. Any way of using Mod Organiser without getting rid of and/or uninstalling all of my mods from NMM?

[blabba]

NMM:

 

Pros:

1. Support for many more games than MO

2. Open Source and extensible if you so choose.

 

Cons:

1. Last I checked (v .5 beta) didn't uninstall mods correctly. (If you had multiple mods overwriting the same things etc... it'd leave files all over the place or delete unrelated files)

2. The people who coded this most probably don't know what their doing, since by their own admission at some point NMM turned into a DDOS app that brought about a large downtime and server maintenance period in which nexus scratched their head trying to figure what was wrong. (It's fixed now but still....)

3. Each update is far from stable or thoroughly tested. (There is no real QA testing)

 

MO:

 

Pros:

1. Virtualization of mod folders, each mod folder is self contained, preventing you from fucking up your skyrim directory or making it an unseemly mess

2. Profiles, you can change mod loadouts on the fly

3. LOOT integration, it's just a nice 'cherry on top' feature

4. Can force load BSA's on top of Loose Files

5. Lets you look and compare what files are overwriting what and what the relationships between the files are

6. Catches common errors and can fix them for you (really basic noob mistakes)

8. Isolate saves per mod profiles, same thing for ini edits etc...

 

Cons:

1. Pretty sure it's not open source, but it may be extensible, I'm not sure on the details myself

2. Learning curve is way steeper than NMM, because it has so many features

3. It's a bitch to setup 3rd party apps sometimes. (Bodyslide etc...)

 

There's more stuff probably, but I think I've hit all the major ones.

[Kaz Aanh]

Okay, thanks for posting this. I had no idea that Mod Organiser was that good. Any way of using Mod Organiser without getting rid of and/or uninstalling all of my mods from NMM?

 

There is an option to Import all mods from NMM to Mod Organizer.

[Justoutthere]

Just as a moment of balance, I have tried MO but went back to NMM, yes its buggy and doesnt realy do that much but it does what I need and I have never had an issue with it. I have however had issues with MO most likely because I didnt RTFM properly and messed it up myself but I didnt have that problem with NMM. 

 

 

If you want simple and hard to screw up NMM

If you want functionality but are willing to put the time in to get it right MO

[AstarteN7]

 

Okay, thanks for posting this. I had no idea that Mod Organiser was that good. Any way of using Mod Organiser without getting rid of and/or uninstalling all of my mods from NMM?

 

There is an option to Import all mods from NMM to Mod Organizer.

 

 

where is that option?

 

 

edit: nvm found it

[AstarteN7]

I'm testing MO on a different skyrim directory and I have already ran into an obstacle. I'm use to NMM when you install a mod that have files that will overwrite the files of another mod then it will tell you on the spot. 

 

However, MO when I install the CBBE body and the SG Female Texture Re-newel, no such pop up came up so I don't know which textures I'm using for the Skyrim under MO. 

[JBloggz]

I use MO for 130-ish mods, most of them are outfits and small 'improvements' and additions to the game. These all work great.

 

However, I've found MO just absolutely hates everything to do with bodies, body textures and animations. I've also found it makes most weather mods lag really badly. So I keep those on NMM and have no problems at all, which comes to around 25-ish mods on NMM that change those kinds of fundamentals. 

 

Its different for everyone, but this is a scenario I just want to point out in case you run into that kind of problem. 

[AstarteN7]

I use MO for 130-ish mods, most of them are outfits and small 'improvements' and additions to the game. These all work great.

 

However, I've found MO just absolutely hates everything to do with bodies, body textures and animations. I've also found it makes most weather mods lag really badly. So I keep those on NMM and have no problems at all, which comes to around 25-ish mods on NMM that change those kinds of fundamentals. 

 

Its different for everyone, but this is a scenario I just want to point out in case you run into that kind of problem. 

 

So you're using both NMM and MO for your game?

[AstarteN7]

I think what I'm doing is a good start for anyone trying out with MO and it is that you have MO manage another Skyrim that is away from your default Steam Apps location and slowly add the mods from your NMM to your MO. 

[RunicGray]

 

One of the most notable benefits to Mod Organizer, imo, is that it basically lets you install as many mods as you want without ever even touching Skyrim's default vanilla Data folder.

 

You can install pretty much everything to a separate folder, keeping every installed mod separate from one another (you never have to actually overwrite a single file), so if you ever want to upgrade, change, or remove a mod, you'll never have to worry about remembering which files went with which mod or accidentally removing something you shouldn't have.

 

That is a huge benefit but how does it resolve around the idea that some mods should override files of another mod for example, replacing the default textures in the CBBE body with SG Female Texture Re-newel. 

 

 

Mods are ordered not just by mod index, but by priority. So if you have one mod that should be "priority" over another (such as a texture mod for a body replacer), you just put one mod at a higher priority than the other.

[AstarteN7]

 

 

One of the most notable benefits to Mod Organizer, imo, is that it basically lets you install as many mods as you want without ever even touching Skyrim's default vanilla Data folder.

 

You can install pretty much everything to a separate folder, keeping every installed mod separate from one another (you never have to actually overwrite a single file), so if you ever want to upgrade, change, or remove a mod, you'll never have to worry about remembering which files went with which mod or accidentally removing something you shouldn't have.

 

That is a huge benefit but how does it resolve around the idea that some mods should override files of another mod for example, replacing the default textures in the CBBE body with SG Female Texture Re-newel. 

 

 

Mods are ordered not just by mod index, but by priority. So if you have one mod that should be "priority" over another (such as a texture mod for a body replacer), you just put one mod at a higher priority than the other.

 

 

 

So in NMM, I will install a body replacer ( CBBE 3.2 ) and when I install a texture replacer ( SG Female Texture Re-newel) it will ask me if I want to overwrite the files that are already present in CBBE.

 

IN MO, I simply place the SG Female Texture above CBBE. I that correct?

[xgkf]

 

One of the most notable benefits to Mod Organizer, imo, is that it basically lets you install as many mods as you want without ever even touching Skyrim's default vanilla Data folder.

 

You can install pretty much everything to a separate folder, keeping every installed mod separate from one another (you never have to actually overwrite a single file), so if you ever want to upgrade, change, or remove a mod, you'll never have to worry about remembering which files went with which mod or accidentally removing something you shouldn't have.

 

That is a huge benefit but how does it resolve around the idea that some mods should override files of another mod for example, replacing the default textures in the CBBE body with SG Female Texture Re-newel. 

 

 

MO will 'virtually' overwrite files depending on how you order them in your Mod List (separate from the Load Order). So, in your example, if you're using default CBBE textures but want to use SG Female Textures instead, you simply put SG *after* CBBE in your Mod List. You don't have to delete or overwrite the default CBBE textures, you don't even have to delete or overwrite the vanilla Skyrim skin textures. MO will do that by itself 'on the fly' when you load up the game.

 

When the game loads, in the event that any file shares a name and file path between two or more mods (ie, the female character skin textures), priority will be given to the one that comes second in the Mod List, similar to how .esps loaded later in the Load Order take precedence over the mods that load before them (although, as mentioned, you can set the priority yourself in MO).

 

The beauty of what MO does here is that if you just for whatever reason happen to not like the SG textures and want to go back to the default CBBE, you don't have to re-install anything from CBBE (because it's still all there intact). All you have to do is uncheck or remove the SG textures from your Mod List and MO won't load them. Similarly, if you wanted to try out another skin texture (Real Girls for example), all you have to do is install those textures and order them *after* the SG textures in your Mod List. You technically wouldn't even need to remove or uncheck the SG textures because MO will simply not load them because the Real Girls textures would be taking precedence if they're listed after the SG textures.

 

Then, once you've done your experimenting to figure out which you like best, just leave that one checked and uncheck/remove the others.

 

 

Now, obviously the instillation/uninstillation/switching between more complicated mods will not be this simple (especially where scripts are involved, because even though *only* the files from the mod you're wanting removing will be removed, there'll still be scripts left from it in your save game), but even so, you will at least always know exactly what files from what mod you're removing. You'll never have to worry about accidentally removing a file you didn't mean to or leaving behind a loose file that you didn't mean to.

[RunicGray]

 

 

 

One of the most notable benefits to Mod Organizer, imo, is that it basically lets you install as many mods as you want without ever even touching Skyrim's default vanilla Data folder.

 

You can install pretty much everything to a separate folder, keeping every installed mod separate from one another (you never have to actually overwrite a single file), so if you ever want to upgrade, change, or remove a mod, you'll never have to worry about remembering which files went with which mod or accidentally removing something you shouldn't have.

 

That is a huge benefit but how does it resolve around the idea that some mods should override files of another mod for example, replacing the default textures in the CBBE body with SG Female Texture Re-newel. 

 

 

Mods are ordered not just by mod index, but by priority. So if you have one mod that should be "priority" over another (such as a texture mod for a body replacer), you just put one mod at a higher priority than the other.

 

 

 

So in NMM, I will install a body replacer ( CBBE 3.2 ) and when I install a texture replacer ( SG Female Texture Re-newel) it will ask me if I want to overwrite the files that are already present in CBBE.

 

IN MO, I simply place the SG Female Texture above CBBE. I that correct?

 

 

Priority = higher number, so technically after, but yes. One file will take priority over the other, but nothing will be overwritten - so if you disabled your new textures, the other textures are still untouched and will work again.

[RitualClarity]

The main Pro of MO is the mods are kept seperate. If you are a NMM user you can still use the downloads features through MO in the Wrench screwdriver symbol on the tool bar. You can endorse and almost anything maintance wise that NMM did before. The second useful Pro is you can run various tools through MO and have those files active when you start the external program. Run FNIS, Creation Kit, SKSE and almost any other program easily. If you have an 4gb extender that is compatable with SKSE youc an use that. You can run practacally anything through MO... even things that aren't game realted...lol. The third is Profiles. This is the main feature that I find attactive. I can run a game for a very long time. In Skyrim it is practacally manitory. .. but what if there was a bug? I can install a new mod .. or patch but what if that don't work the way I like? I can mess up the save and have to go through a great deal of work to "clean" the save. Sometimes I hear that causes problems. With MO I run a "copy" of the profile I have for any changes to the profile(s) I am using. If there is a new patch I can experiement with it in a new profle ran from whenever I copied it. If I don't like the changes I can just returnto the old profile. Another advantage is I can explore the various options of Dawngard quest lines. .. choose vampire.. don't... Help Saliene become human.. don't .. The same profile can be used over and over provided the base is something I like. Playing a warrior from the guild? Many choices there as well. Marry this person? pehraps that person? Buy this house? Attack this, help that? Options are limitless.

 

The main thing MO is a con is it don't support 64 bit programs .. Some things you might want to use like modding tools and such might not work properly with MO. There are work arounds for these and chances are if you are good enought or skilled enought to be doing some of these things you are skilled enought to do a basic backup and understand some steps to protect your game from this.

[Robton]

I use MO and count 423 mods in my folder... about 200 of them are texture mods though...

 

Still stable as can be, with the built-in LOOT tool and FNIS checker

 

Recommended

[...0...]

I hear a lot of bad things about NMM and some of the more advance people here favor MO over NMM. Can anyone care to explain this to me? I have got to the point where I have a lot of mods installed, and using the best possible mod manager would be good. 

 

If your new to mods i suggest using MO.

 

NMM is ok it give np but only if you realy know what your doing and with LOOT these days its even more simpler.

 

But Mo is for many reasons better to avoid problems.

 

I use NMM i have no problem at all but i know exactly what im doing.

[Killikrates~2014]

 

NMM is barely a step above Steam Workshop subscribing. I used Wrye\Bain as an installer previously, but there is no reason not to switch to Mod Organizer immediately. The STEP Forum has a wiki guide to Mod Organizer to help you get started. Mod Organizer will do everything NMM is currently doing for you, including handling Nexus links the same, and it offers many more functions to explore as you are ready. It's great for conflict resolution, and you can even setup "profiles", separate load orders of different mods for each character you play.

 

Thanks, I will look into that guide. Would it be a good idea to switch mid way through a play through? The way in which mods are installed between NMM and MO are totally different but in theory should be exactly the same gameplay wise but I fear the worse as an amateur going into something new as MO.

 

 

In theory, you could use MO's beta feature for transferring an existing NMM install (I have not tried this, used Wrye\BAIN before), and after playing a bit with it check a recent autosave with the Script Save Tool to see if you have orphaned scripts &/or clean them. Worst case scenario you start fresh and much more stable. If you aren't already using SKSE 1.7 alpha, there's instructions for that on STEP as well. In fact I recommend installing STEP Core mods for a stable base and then your favorite mods & the best\most interesting most from LL as well. Having a stable base install makes using new alpha WIPs much easier, certainly from a bug tracking perspective. One great feature of MO is that you can have multiple profiles, each with its own set of mods, if you make STEP Core your default profile you can create a new copy and add mods to it quick and easy.

[Killikrates~2014]

Just as a moment of balance, I have tried MO but went back to NMM, yes its buggy and doesnt realy do that much but it does what I need and I have never had an issue with it. I have however had issues with MO most likely because I didnt RTFM properly and messed it up myself but I didnt have that problem with NMM. 

 

 

If you want simple and hard to screw up NMM

If you want functionality but are willing to put the time in to get it right MO

 

You might consider giving it another try, Tannin has been supporting/updating it frequently, you might find the bugs you ran into previously fixed. Most of the advanced features of MO can be put off until you feel like researching/dealing with them, the basic features are quite similar to NMM. One big feature is that it will check the scripts in your installed mods and offer to reorder the mods to avoid conflicts, just click "okay" and it does the resort (this is order of install, not load order that the inegrated LOOT button does).

[afa]

The ability to install and remove mods without overwriting and deleting old files makes testing mods especially body and texture a godsend with MO.

Although some files are better off installed in the skyrim Data folder, I find SKSE and the ini files to be better in the data folder rather than in MO.

 

Depending on the 3rd party software you need to run (FNIS, bodyslide for example) takes a little more work to get working with MO and unless you already know how they are supposed to work initially it is difficult to tell if everything is working correctly or not.

 

The main thing with MO is that the left side of the screen isn't your load order, but it handles files priority and overwrite in the Data folder similar to how load order works. Your actual load order with the esp and esm is on the right side of the screen. So to overwrite body textures and meshes you load it and active it them on the left side and put it below your existing meshes and textures. There should be a + icon for mods that are overwriting another mods and a - icon for mods that got overwritten. A + and - at the same time mean that mod is overwriting something, but at the same time being overwritten by something else.