Are Vampires Overused?

[Guest]

Vampires were originally embodiments of gluttony and greed. In the 18th and 19th centuries they embodied disease, plague and pestilence. Nowadays...

 

Of course, anything can be good and original if done well.

 

I think when it comes to making a story with the supernatural or a monstrosity of sorts (whether it be a physical being or an internal side of someone where the character or protagonist is him/herself the monster) you have to ask why they're there. The best and most heralded stories in human history are so, because they explore human nature or say something about the human condition or society. Frankenstein, The Wizard of Oz, The Lord of the Rings, and of course, Dracula himself all do this.

 

When writing a fanfic however, that whole last paragraph probably doesn't apply. If you stick to good writing conventions (and avoid some tropes or making "mary sue" characters) while respecting source material, I'm sure it will be a good read.

[Myst42]

I posted a brief history of vampires in another place

Actually it may sound lame but the idea of vampires being undead corpses burning in sunlight is recent

Original vampirism traces thousands of years back to the first gods. Not dead. Not Unholy. Not Burning

 

I'm actually cooking something about it

I hated the idea of making it about vampires... vampire stories pop up everywhere these days 

But I couldn't have it any other way. It's just in my blood and I can't change it

 

I take my cheers up in the idea that the concept is very different and it even makes sense. Want monsters? 30 days of night is my movie of choice. But monsters are not all there is either.

Now, The Masquerade. It almost got it right. You know, infiltration, dark societies, manipulation etc...

Still too Gothic if you ask me. And I like Gothic... but I also like Hippie, Cyberpunk, Steampunk, Fairy Tales, and lots of styles. The style suits the character... why do all of them need to be Goths?. It was lacking more worlds besides the dead one.

 

I read that Necroscope series inspired the Tzimisce... good call for monsters

 

Ahhhh... I just wish there could have been better ways to play VTM... I would have had a great Tremere/Malkavian, Nosferatu and Tzimisce character...

They never could get my choice right you know... A Mad Tremere...

I also read the original role playing game is officially dead

Heard some MMMMROMRPORPOPORG was intended... "World of Darkness" But I've never been too much into MRMRPORPMPOORGS. Besides I like my stories... online there is always a guy who plays more than you do and will eventually write your story too even if you don't like it.

 

-------------------------------

 

SOOOooo...

You're probably talking about a sex story cause this is LL... it doesn't really matter then if they're vampires

They could be demons and the BDSM would still apply. Just get to the sex already!

Vampires "just because" is a waste of concept

 

The concept is very very changing... every new story you see you always should ask things like "Is it supernatural or entirely earthly? Is it mysticism or science? these vampires are infected people or spawns of hell?" possibilities are many. Do your vampires burn in the sunlight or respond to garlic and crosses?

 

And godhood... well I made my main char story about it. Alice was once a human in Oblivion, she may have been a vampire too in that age, but then Shivering Isles came and she became Sheogorath. In Skyrim she returned with her own memories buried and her powers dormant, so she could have fun in human form again. As a character she was technically also a vampire, save I used Better Vampires to cheat a little and make it so she didn't care for weaknesses or feeding, giving godlike boosts to her abilities. Did all them quests and returned to Daedric status. She has a purple aura to prove it 

[Coopervane]

 

Depends on your take on vampires. What vampires have become in recent times in popular culture is nothing short of nauseating.

 

There is a very simple reason for that: Hardly anyone finds Vampires scary anymore.

 

This is the whole reason we nolonger (or atleast hardly ever) see Vampires in the traditional "monster" role. The job of a monster is to frighten us, and vamp's just don't cut it anymore, they can nolong fill that role effectively. There are so many other "monsters" you could use in a horror story today that would be infinately more effective on audiences today, so why bother with the Vampire as a monster?

 

 

But vamps are to ingrained in our culture to just let them fall by the wayside, so instead we have seen many attempts to reinvent and reexamine the Vampire, often in storries that involve seeing the world from the vamp's perspective rather than the humans perspective.

 

But as always, Sturgeon's Revelation is in full effect: 90% of everything is crap, and the Vampire-reinvention is certainly not excempt from that rule, most of it has indeed been crap. But this is true of everything.

 

 

At the top of that dungpile sits Twilight, and ever since that crap-fest somehow became popular, there's been this massive backlash against Vampires, and a clamoring to preserve the sanctity of the Vampire as a soulless monster, and yadda yadda yadda... 

 

It all rings fairly hollow to me though. People say this, but it seems to me like just a knee-jerk reaction to the crap that was Twilight. When it all comes right down to it though, i very much doubt that most of the people claiming this would be standing in line to see a traditional "the vamp is the monster" movie, because most of us woulden't honestly care, vamp's just aren't scary, it's not that interesting.

 

 

Nah, i'm quite happy to see vamp's branching out and trying to find a new role and a new story. But most of it has and will be crap, because most things are. Every now and then though, there's going to be that rare gem in the mix, and that's what makes it worthwhile.

 

I posted a brief history of vampires in another place

Actually it may sound lame but the idea of vampires being undead corpses burning in sunlight is recent

Original vampirism traces thousands of years back to the first gods. Not dead. Not Unholy. Not Burning

 

I'm fairly sure the whole "vamps die in sunlight" thing didn't become a.. well a thing untill the 1922 "Nosferatu" movie. So yeah, it's extremely recent (given the thousands of years behind the Vampire myth).

 

And the movie actually got that wrong. It was an unlicensed adaptation of Bram Stoker's "Dracula", but Dracula is not killed by sunlight in the novel, there is no burning or turning into ash, he just can't access his powers in direct sunlight in the novel.

[Guest]

Before Polidori and Bram Stoker there was no canon, just oral tradition, cautionary 'woe betide you' folklore to frighten people into some form of moral compliance or other. So it doesn't matter too much to me what direction the vampire myth takes, I rather enjoy fiction that messes with convention.

 

But who doesn't enjoy the traditional 'vampyre' stuff too, the Dorian Gray being as old as the hills who looks human but has a totally borked moral compass and acts on every animal urge as though their prefrontal cortex has turned to dust, but does really grim things with style and panache. It's delicious. 

 

I've got room in my life for both kinds, what I don't have time for is vampires as good guys, I just won't buy into it, they lose all their power when that's done and I hate it. 

[Kendo 2]

@Hentai-chan

I have to agree that vampires are overused, at least the modern Western concept of them.  Vampires are MONSTERS that EAT people.  The whole Anne Rice/Twilight 'vampires are sexy' idea is just lame, imo.  They are predators who terrorize, kill people, destroy families and ruin lives.  Vampires are about as sexy as rotting cannibalistic zombies when you look at it like that.  They are something to be hunted down and destroyed.  You might try looking to vampire legends from Africa, Asia and Australia for new inspiration.

 

I guess the only exception to this would be the vampire who was turned against his will.  But then the clock would be ticking.  How long does he have before he becomes the thing that stole his life?  Can he be cured?  Out of the handful of humans who know about vampirism, who would be willing to help him?  Why wouldn't they just destroy him on sight?  If they know about vampires and what they are, how did they get that information?  And so on...

[ratrace]

 

The whole Anne Rice/Twilight 'vampires are sexy' idea is just lame, imo.

Anne Rice, though I don't like her books, makes a good point of vampires being predators, it's  just that she doesn't make them predators who are acting exclusively driven by their instinctive impulses without being able to overthink it. But that makes them predators no less. Her concept reminded me of the "Natural Born Killers" scene where Mickey and Mallory visit the indian guy in the desert who tells them the story of the snake which kills the hand that fed it due to its predatory nature.

 

Though you are right when it comes to the whole display of beauty and sexyness. But that may related to the choice of actors in the "Interview..."-movie. Even Anne Rice freaked out when she first heard of Tom Cruise having been chosen for one of the leading parts.

 

Twilight is no vampire movie. It's clean, it's prudent and as such following the Zeitgeist, it's sugarcoated and sterile, it's literally anemic. Though I don't know what crossed S. Meyers mind when she made the vampires swing from tree to tree and sparkle in sunlight.

[Myst42]

Let me tell you a story about the first vampires

 

In some ancient cultures such as Mesopotamian, Mayan, Egyptian, Chinese and some tribes in Africa they have legends and tales about gods who came down from the sky and created mankind. They were not zombies or killing machines but extremely advanced beings who brought knowledge and technology with them. Taught the first people to build, to harvest. But a lot of them didn't do this for free, they did it in exchange for a sacrifice. The price to pay was blood. The blood of men and animal alike offered in rituals during thousands of years.

Some cultures refer to these beings as dragons and snakes.

They took blood in inhuman ways, but they also showed intelligence and some were nicer than others, refusing sacrifices and being gods of mercy. Restrain too existed in those old figures. Picture Daedra and Aedra

Digging deeper into modern times and conspiracy theories you'll find your US country is filled with tales of reptilian beings ruling from the shadows forever hidden.

 

Coincidence? Paranoia? Mumbo Jumbo? Perhaps

 

I leave it to your criteria but the first vampiric figures were not either zombies nor glittering pixies.

[ratrace]

 

Digging deeper into modern times and conspiracy theories you'll find your US country is filled with tales of reptilian beings ruling from the shadows forever hidden.

Though I have the feeling that your posting is directed at Kendo2, I'd like to add that I am not american. Not that that is of any importance, but I'm admittedly not familiar with the american lore you mentioned.

[Myst42]

Oh no I wasn't talking specifically about anyone

Just wanted to tell the story and make a point about how original vampires are not undead nor zombie-like like many movies show

 

And google "reptilian" and you'll get thousands of conspiracy theories... illuminati and stuff... also some guy named Zachariah Siitchin or something like that... can't remember now.

All theories about shadow governments specially in the US... as LL is supposedly a US site...

 

That's for another day, though it is related though the tales of snake people

[fejeena]

Thought the question was "Are Vampires Overused? " not the history of vampires.

So back to Topic. If a nice Vampire Girl is fucked every day fifty times she is overused.

 

[Myst42]

Well one could say history is the reason why people say vampires are overused. The concept evolved making it non-scary and ultimately boring for some.

But yes back to pure topic I'd say some items are decadent making the concept overused and you should try to stay away from those items if you don't want a story to be boring and just like all the rest.

[Kendo 2]

Let me tell you a story about the first vampires...

You're being condecending to real people about MYTHICAL BEINGS.

Digging deeper into modern times and conspiracy theories you'll find your US country is filled with tales of reptilian beings ruling from the shadows forever hidden.

I leave it to your criteria but the first vampiric figures were not either zombies nor glittering pixies.

You're a troll.  You just slammed Americans specifically even though 'pretty vampires' are a Western world-wide phenomena in current culture.  The reference to 'reptiles' ...to be honest I had to Google that to understand what you were talking about and it has nothing to do with vampires or the context of this thread.  And the 'to your crieteria' implies YOUR criteria is valid while others' is not.  With 2000+ posts a reasonable person would think you would know better than to belittle other people over something as insignificantt as a discussion about vampires on a game board.

 

My post was directed specifically to the OP and in NO WAY enticed any response other than something reasonable as it pertained to the subject at hand 'Are Vampires Overused'.  It wasn't addressed to you or anyone else and there is nothing in that post to prompt a response other than the topic the OP initiated.

 

 

[Myst42]

*Sigh*

People are so damn sensitive these days...

1- I was not talking to *you* I was speaking in general.

2- Internet is a place where voice tones and faces are unseen so if you feel attacked that's your problem not mine. I never meant to be condescending or attacking. Sometimes you perceive hostility where there is none. Is it really the messenger's fault?

3- I did not "slammed" Americans. The theories I mentioned ARE american by birth, it has a long way relation with American culture and reptilian conspiracy theories.

4- MY criteria is my own, yours is yours and I don't give a damn if you agree or don't. People are different. If it hurts you that's your problem. I meant everybody is free to believe WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT free of fucking judgement.

5- This is the last time I reply to this kind of trolling. I know I meant well. Don't believe me? Deal with it. Want to fight me? Fight alone. I'm not in the mood for this kind of crap.

6- This is off topic.

7- I said all I wanted to say in this topic, and I'm tired of posting in it. I'm gone.

[Jexsam]

Ridiculously overused. Everybody and their grandmother has Generic Gothic Grimdark Vamp Character in their roster somewhere. There's never any originality, it's all black leather or black lace or some shade of red. They're all dominators/dominatrixes. Most either have "zomg teh tragedeez" or "zomg take me make one of you" as their backstory. If you're lucky you might get a different skin color, and if you're really lucky, they might actually have some depth beyond being brooding, bloodthirsty, or insanely horny/sexy. It's like zombies and grimdark TV - it's getting really fucking old.

 

Now, in their defense, vampirism is a very thick sexual metaphor, so it's hard to break away from the erotic aspects entirely. But that's no excuse for the lack of variety in style, characterization, and implementation most vampire characters here and in media at large suffer. You can be a hot sexy vampire dominatrix and not have to wear leather/dress like a teenage girl trying too hard to be cool and edgy/have you personality limited to just your sexuality.

[Scarlett]

[Guest]

Ridiculously overused. Everybody and their grandmother has Generic Gothic Grimdark Vamp Character in their roster somewhere. There's never any originality, it's all black leather or black lace or some shade of red. They're all dominators/dominatrixes. Most either have "zomg teh tragedeez" or "zomg take me make one of you" as their backstory. If you're lucky you might get a different skin color, and if you're really lucky, they might actually have some depth beyond being brooding, bloodthirsty, or insanely horny/sexy. It's like zombies and grimdark TV - it's getting really fucking old.

 

Now, in their defense, vampirism is a very thick sexual metaphor, so it's hard to break away from the erotic aspects entirely. But that's no excuse for the lack of variety in style, characterization, and implementation most vampire characters here and in media at large suffer. You can be a hot sexy vampire dominatrix and not have to wear leather/dress like a teenage girl trying too hard to be cool and edgy/have you personality limited to just your sexuality.

What you're describing is why that aspect of the vampire tradition has endured these last 250 odd years. Earliest examples of vampire fiction are from the romantic era, authors like Shelley, Byron, the Brontes, Dumas and Wordsworth are writing about untamed windswept landscapes, savage beauty, antiheroes, dark stormy nights, hopeless addictions to lost causes, unrequited love, bad choices, roiling seas, ships floundering on jagged rocks, swashbuckling pirates, star-crossed lovers, grim tragedies.  It's all heaving laced bodices  and diaphanous night dresses. Sexual metaphors abound. 

 

Seduction, temptation, broodiness, domination,perversion, corruption of innocence are key characteristics. I'm all for the slavering apex predator myself, but it's pretty well established that vampires live double lives out of necessity, that most of what you see is likely to be a maintained illusion,the masquerade is a survival technique to hide the monstrous truth of their nature. Isn't that what makes them fun, these wolves dressed as sheep? Without all that they're just another monster with sharp teeth who wants to eat you.

 

Stoker established the count as an aged warrior noble dressed in black, with a very strong handshake, a drooping white mustache, a pallid complexion. Harker notes an almost total absence of colour. Later in the novel he's described as a dangerous looking man with a hooked nose and a dark forked beard flecked with white. Dracula's eyes flare from blue to red when he's angered. The mask slips. 

 

Lore is just another word for tradition, deliberately constructed so that the core or essence  endures even after the thousandth retelling. I don't know why I'm reminding you of that Jexsam, I can't think of many people on this forum who are more a stickler for lore than you seem to be. You will know as well as anybody that when you start deconstructing these things in an attempt at reinvention you often finish up with nothing worth a damn. Those key aspects endure for good reason. 

 

 

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

my 2 cents: years ago i was a vampire fan. but then, they started to overuse them in medias. good vampires, nice vampires, hero vampires, worst of them all: seducing sex vampires.

 

for me the limit was reached nearly a decade ago, im personally a huge fan of hircine and love werewolf-transform after entering a vampire-cave and shredding the fuck out of those suckers with the new skill tree that solstheim gave us summoning a couple of other werewolves and going berserk is pretty nice, not to mention that a good levelled wolf played by someone that knows the doggy-combat has not only a couple of awesome finishers (im hungry... guess ill bite your head off) but also a set of the strongest power-attacks available, under the condition that you know how to use them... nearly every power-atk has a fus-ro-dah kinda effect, some stronger, some weaker... you storm into the main room of the cave, smak the strongest guy so that he flys through the air, go beserk on the weaker ones... aaaah, i love bloodbaths

[Cynical Misanthrope]

As a Werewolf, Vampires are nothing more than worthlesss snack!

[Yoo]

Well, I havent read the whole thread, but yes, vampires are a bit overused and there are a lot of shitty stories/movies/games about them.

 

But... sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) you find really a good vampire story. That is the case of "Let the right one in" (Låt den rätte komma in). BUT DONT WATCH "Let me in", which a shitty american remake.

 

[Cynical Misanthrope]

 

Låt den rätte komma in

 

Maybe it's just me, but that sounded awfully naughty. Me likes!

 

Kanske kan få komma in i dig?

[Lovely Rose]

if it is about vampires that sparkle. im putting cement shoes on your idea. XD besides that

vampires arent old news.

 

But you cant say VAMPIRE without some 14 year old girl screaming TWILIGHT.

 

lol

[Guest Ragna_Rok]

As a Werewolf, Vampires are nothing more than worthlesss snack!

 

FUCK YEAH, DUDE!!!

 

[Chaos63]

Skyrim vampires are weaklings anyway, just a bunch of pansies that sit around and pout how the sun is a piece of shit. They're not old, they just blow.

If only they had some Gabriel Belmont in them, they would be much more based.

[Kendo 2]

Max Schreck/Count Orlok from 'Shadow of the Vampire' is what I picture when I think of 'vampires'.  Creepy, non-human, etc.  They don't look like hair dressers or Goth kids.  They look like they need stakes pounded into their hearts, not therapy.

[ElectricSheep]

Dunno if they're oversued, as I rarely read/watch anything involving vampirism, but I'm definitely not a fan of the Anne Rice type of vampires, for they mark the point from which Stephenie Meyer took a further step ahead into female whimsical fantasy about beautiful boys.

 

On a side note, I'm really not fond of the new art direction of CV games;

 

Simon Belmont back in the day:

 

Simon Belmont now, as know from "Bishonania":

 

Surprisingly, the author of is female.

 

I guess I liked the Francis Coppola idea of a vampire; as a shapeless creature that can take different forms, varying from a scary bat-like monster to a charming gentleman.