Halstrom Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I see. I just thought you had control over who you could start conversations with in the first place. Ordinarily the you can't talk to the offspring. Talking to them should be fine, though may seem a bit weird & seedy, I still have them added to the Banned SexLists. I like the idea of them even just running away screaming in terror.
prideslayer Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I could add something like that to sexout.. it does seem like a nice touch.
astymma Posted January 17, 2012 Author Posted January 17, 2012 Speaking of me adding race support/bans into SmallerTalk (and to stop the derailment of my thread ), do you (Prideslayer) have a list of what races/creatures/npc creatures need support from SmallerTalk? I'm guessing supermutants, ghouls (feral or otherwise), robots...
prideslayer Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Speaking of me adding race support/bans into SmallerTalk (and to stop the derailment of my thread )' date=' do you (Prideslayer) have a list of what races/creatures/npc creatures need support from SmallerTalk? I'm guessing supermutants, ghouls (feral or otherwise), robots... [/quote'] Supermutants, ghouls (not feral I wouldn't think, not like they talk -- not to other ghouls or even to each other), and robots definitely. Others are up to you, there are more talking 'monster' NPC assets in the FalloutNV ESM that aren't actually in the game anywhere. Can't think of any other talking critters offhand. They will probably be 'better' with their own intro thing other than the "what's up". Some beeping/flashing for robots maybe, dunno about the others.
astymma Posted January 18, 2012 Author Posted January 18, 2012 Speaking of me adding race support/bans into SmallerTalk (and to stop the derailment of my thread )' date=' do you (Prideslayer) have a list of what races/creatures/npc creatures need support from SmallerTalk? I'm guessing supermutants, ghouls (feral or otherwise), robots... [/quote'] Supermutants, ghouls (not feral I wouldn't think, not like they talk -- not to other ghouls or even to each other), and robots definitely. Others are up to you, there are more talking 'monster' NPC assets in the FalloutNV ESM that aren't actually in the game anywhere. Can't think of any other talking critters offhand. They will probably be 'better' with their own intro thing other than the "what's up". Some beeping/flashing for robots maybe, dunno about the others. Well, I can actually imagine how players can interact with Ferals but you'd have to physically add a neutral or friendly-...er...-ish Feral to a mod first. A cannibal player might be eble to entice/interact with Ferals in exchange for "food". Loveshacks added a talking Cazadore which, tbh, is voiced fairly well imo. AWOP has a friendly feral actually as I remember, lives with the DJ who plays the odd music. It's always possible someone might add *any* talking critter to the world, hehe. The major problem I see is the tightrope of adding support for creatures (which, by default, removes all support from anything not on the supported list) or allowing everything to be supported (which leaves a huge number of "bombs" of un-dialogued races who send the player to a blank dialogue box with no exits).
prideslayer Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Blank dialogs is exactly what I don't want. I messed around with Crowning Isle a lot for oblivion and the second most irritating thing about it was all the people spouting "I HAVE NO GREETING." Getting the user stuck in a dialog would be even worse, though I believe a default 'goodbye' will be added if there are no dialog paths leading to a goodbye. As for the other stuff.. it's your mod now brother, your call. Ferals.. maybe. Vault 34 has some that kind of talk also, but they aren't friendly. Cazadores? I fell out of the roflcopter but luckily I was wearing my lolachute and lollerskates.
astymma Posted January 19, 2012 Author Posted January 19, 2012 I HAVE NO GREETING is specific to Oblivion. Fallouts have failsafes for blank dialog built in. It usually happens in Oblivion when the race of the NPC is a race you don't have installed. Hmm, I think you're right, the GOODBYE top-level is named "Goodbye." and I've seen it often enough. It must be the handler for a blank dialogue. It's a priority 5 top-level so it's always at the end.
astymma Posted January 19, 2012 Author Posted January 19, 2012 Blank dialogs is exactly what I don't want. I messed around with Crowning Isle a lot for oblivion and the second most irritating thing about it was all the people spouting "I HAVE NO GREETING." Getting the user stuck in a dialog would be even worse' date=' though I believe a default 'goodbye' will be added if there are no dialog paths leading to a goodbye. As for the other stuff.. it's your mod now brother, your call. Ferals.. maybe. Vault 34 has some that kind of talk also, but they aren't friendly. Cazadores? I fell out of the roflcopter but luckily I was wearing my lolachute and lollerskates. [/quote'] Heh, the Loveshacks Cazadore you have to use a specific pheremone on yourself that suddenly makes them all friendly and you can understand the NPC's buzzing language (how it does that part I'll never understand, I can get the friendly bit... that should have been an item in the survival recipes... tailored pheremones that make a specific critter race friendly for limited periods).
dizzyman Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Just had a vanilla NPC (Canyon Runner at Cottonwood Cove) use the smallertalk greeting but he's got a proper spoken greeting he should be using.
astymma Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 Just had a vanilla NPC (Canyon Runner at Cottonwood Cove) use the smallertalk greeting but he's got a proper spoken greeting he should be using. That's not possible, he must be in an AI state which has no dialogue. SmallerTalk doesn't override any dialogue at all. The way it works is, when you tap the activate key, the activation proceeds as normal but in the AI of the actor, the command for them to start the SmallerTalk conversation with you is added. If they have ANY non-goodbye flagged GREETING responses at all, the conversation you would normally have will still happen and the SmallerTalk queued conversation will get discarded. If they have ALL goodbye flagged responses or none at all, the queued SmallerTalk conversation will execute as a backup to make that NPC talk to you. So it's simply not possible for an NPC to have a valid GREETING response and still use SmallerTalk instead. That scenario always produces an AI discard of the SmallerTalk queued dialogue. It's the defining mechanism by which SmallerTalk does its "thing" OK, I checked all of Canyon Runner's dialogues and yes he has one valid GREETING that *should* always fire... but it has no responses so the AI would discard it in favor of the queued SmallerTalk conversation. It's "Ave. How goes it?" so you aren't missing much unless you're really a big fan of Latin being spoken What I *will* do however, is look at seeing if lowering the SmallerTalk topic/response priorities allows that greeting to fire (because, after all, I would rather NOT stomp on vanilla content and only have SmallerTalk intercede when there's no content to stomp on). Will get a test character over to Cottonwood and see. Try this version and if it works for you, let me know and I'll make it the next release version... (and only this user try it please, test version only)...
astymma Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 I've noticed when using dialog wheel functions' date=' after I exit out of the wheel my companion launches into a goodbye topic thing. In the case of Cass, she says, "We done yet?" [/quote'] Yes that's in the OP, the way SmallerTalk works I can't stop SmallerTalk from firing when you use the companion wheel for something like a trade so I added a relatively (I guess not!) innocuous phrase to say "We done yet?" to provide an alternative to making you go through the SmallerTalk GREET-response process. When SmallerTalk fires it sets intChecked to 1. I added a handler that checks your MenuMode and if it's the Companion Wheel, it sets it to 2. Uses different dialogues, 2 means say "we done yet?", 1 means normal greeting-response.
astymma Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 Cool. I just wanted to make sure nothing was broken. Np
dizzyman Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Tried test version without clean save, no change. Tried without smallertalk: the first time I activate him, he speaks without entering dialogue mode (zoomed camera). The second time I activate him, he enters dialogue mode with a forced goodbye (hurry along now). So it's because you're not supposed to be asking him questions at that point because of quest (even though one of his dialogue options relates to what he says before the forced goodbye). I guess it would be more appropraite to address cases like this - if at all - with an esp disabling applicable NPCs forced goodbyes (which may already exist, in this case it's technically a bug with vanilla dialogue I think; I just wonder about his involvement with a seperate quest).
astymma Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 Tried test version without clean save' date=' no change. Tried without smallertalk: the first time I activate him, he speaks without entering dialogue mode (zoomed camera). The second time I activate him, he enters dialogue mode with a forced goodbye (hurry along now). So it's because you're not supposed to be asking him questions at that point because of quest (even though one of his dialogue options relates to what he says before the forced goodbye). I guess it would be more appropraite to address cases like this - if at all - with an esp disabling applicable NPCs forced goodbyes (which may already exist, in this case it's technically a bug with vanilla dialogue I think; I just wonder about his involvement with a seperate quest). [/quote'] That's how the original SmallTalk worked, by disabling the "goodbye" flag on ALL NPC's in the wasteland (and the reason why it's a maintenance nightmare and incompatible with bugfix compilations and DLC's). SmallerTalk depends on them using the goodbye flagged response and queues up a new conversation. That's what I meant by his AI having him in a no conversation state btw. In the AI state you encountered him in, his quest/script variables are set in a way that provides no Condition to select him for a response other than goodbye flagged responses. In which case, when you encountered him and SmallerTalk did its thing, it was working "as intended"
astymma Posted January 29, 2012 Author Posted January 29, 2012 Version 1.1.5 released Exempted Cass from the SmallerTalk companion wheel handler so you won't see "We done?" with her, you'll see the full SmallerTalk greeting-response. This was done to address her extreme reluctance to play along nicely with SexoutSex. The best method of interacting with her is to check her inventory then click exit.
astymma Posted January 29, 2012 Author Posted January 29, 2012 Version 1.1.6 released. Added VERY rudimentary creature support. If enabled via MCM menu, the following conversation with critters will happen: activate critter critter: you: How ya doin'? critter: companion wheel (instead of "We done?") critter: ...otherwise, same as SmallerTalk for non-critters.
astymma Posted January 29, 2012 Author Posted January 29, 2012 Went back and highlighted ALL release responses in this topic in bright red to make my version release posts easier to find.
saladboy21 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Are there any known conflicts with this mod (besides smalltalk, obviously)? I am not getting the new features to work
astymma Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Are there any known conflicts with this mod (besides smalltalk' date=' obviously)? I am not getting the new features to work [/quote'] In order to configure SmallerTalk, MCM is required. To enable creature support, you have to open the MCM menu, find the SmallerTalk submenu and click Allow Creature Interactions so it says "ON".
saladboy21 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Are there any known conflicts with this mod (besides smalltalk' date=' obviously)? I am not getting the new features to work [/quote'] In order to configure SmallerTalk, MCM is required. To enable creature support, you have to open the MCM menu, find the SmallerTalk submenu and click Allow Creature Interactions so it says "ON". I have done that but neither it nor Cass appear to be working (I found the MCM option trying to make Cass work). However, other mods requiring Smallertalk are not imploding so it must be working to some degree.
astymma Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Are there any known conflicts with this mod (besides smalltalk' date=' obviously)? I am not getting the new features to work [/quote'] In order to configure SmallerTalk, MCM is required. To enable creature support, you have to open the MCM menu, find the SmallerTalk submenu and click Allow Creature Interactions so it says "ON". I have done that but neither it nor Cass appear to be working (I found the MCM option trying to make Cass work). However, other mods requiring Smallertalk are not imploding so it must be working to some degree. Actually, SmallTalk and SmallerTalk don't conflict as far as I know. They use two completely different methods for handling dialogue. SmallTalk removes "goodbye" flags from responses, SmallerTalk waits for those and queues up a StartConversation. So running them both would just mean SmallerTalk had less NPC's to handle. I do NOT recommend this, of course. SmallTalk is fundamentally flawed. Perhaps post what you did most recently and your load order in spoiler tags so I can make a guess. The best way to see if SmallerTalk is working is enable Debug Messages in the MCM menu for SmallerTalk. You should see messages like: Target under crosshair: Cass FormID of Target: 00133FDD Value of intChecked: 1 It will display for *anything* you activate with your "E" key (or whatever your activate key is set to). intChecked will be 1 if it's an actor who isn't dead, isn't sleeping, isn't a creature and isn't in combat with you. It will also be = 1 if you have creatures enabled and the above is true except it can be a creature. It will be = 2 if you're currently in a companion wheel interaction with ANYONE besides Cass, when it will still be = 1. You can also try the following if MCM isn't working... set .iVariable1 to [0/1] ;[mod disabled/mod enabled] set .iVariable2 to [0/1] ;[debug messages disabled/debug messages enabled] set .iVariable3 to [0/1] ;[creature interactions disabled/creature interactions enabled]
astymma Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Something else to think about, MCM has a tendency to BORK the underlying variables in an esp that has been altered since last being ran. Every time you upgrade/downgrade an esp that has an MCM dependency (or supports MCM), I'd suggest opening MCM and resetting every value EVEN if they look correct. It has turned a crashy session into a smooth session for me every time.
prideslayer Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Something else to think about' date=' MCM has a tendency to BORK the underlying variables in an esp that has been altered since last being ran. Every time you upgrade/downgrade an esp that has an MCM dependency (or supports MCM), I'd suggest opening MCM and resetting every value EVEN if they look correct. It has turned a crashy session into a smooth session for me every time. [/quote'] This is just due to people not properly doing the init block stuff in their ESP, or screwing up their MCM quest script. It can also be caused by the quest script being set to the default delay (5 seconds). If you open MCM for a mod before that mods quest has initialized its vars, everything shows as 0/null/whatever to MCM. What should be done is the mods quest script(s) for MCM should be checking the mod itself to make sure it is initialized and upgraded (ready) before allowing MCM interactions.
saladboy21 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 OK I figured it out. Smallertalk does not like my controller. I can only interact with it via keyboard.
astymma Posted January 31, 2012 Author Posted January 31, 2012 OK I figured it out. Smallertalk does not like my controller. I can only interact with it via keyboard. Ok, now that's interesting because SmallerTalk is hooking the use of the activate control, whatever that currently is (default E key on your keyboard). I wonder if I also should look for whether or not controllers have an alternate code and I can check for both. Hmm, after checking... nope, no alternate method for me to see if you're activating that's console controller specific that I saw. Your controller should just be sending the activate control as a key code to the program as a key press event. Maybe something in your controller settings?
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