Alternate starting mods choice ?

[Benmc20]

This has caught my attention and I intend to try it. However, how is compatibility with the Unofficial Skyrim Patches?

 

Skyrim Unbound's page mentions incompatibilities since they touch the same scripts. The workaround is to use the loose scripts version, but what quirks will be experienced? What is lost by losing some of the bug fixes in the scripts from the Unofficial Skyrim Patches?

 

Skyrim Unbound don't cause any problem with the unofficial patches; I'm using them both without any problem (Skyrim Unbound in BSA version, not loose). You must load Skyrim Unbound in the latest position of your load order.

[Guest Vendayn]

Well, I'll give my opinion from a non-RP view:

LAL is the worst. There is obviously only one REALLY good OP start, which is owning a farm house with a meager profit. Why? Because you can't own that farm house any other way. Tons of food, tons of items...get income every once in a while (while small, none of the other starts in LAL do that)...tons of alchemy stuff, plus all the farm stuff. Plus for some reason it adds tons of stuff to the barrels, or maybe another mod does it...in any case...since its the most unique start due to not being able to use the house any other way...its the #1 option.

 

The vampire start is cool, except not compatible with other mods that change vampires cause you get owned right from the start. As soon as I put in Vampiric Thirst or Brehanin vampires, the vampires attacked my character. Remove the mods (I didn't use both at once obviously), and it worked 100% of the time. So actually a terrible start, because vanilla vampires are lame and bethesda should hire modders to do vampires.

 

There is of course necromancer/shipwreck/warlock and what not...those are cool I guess. But meaningless.

 

Left for dead is meaningless.

 

It all ends up the same, still FORCES you to do the main quest or things get really bugged. Jarls are bugged. Quests are bugged. Things get really weird in Skyrim if you don't start the helgen quest. So EVERY start, I do the helgen quest no matter what...which is really lame. I am forced to avoid whiterun, forced to avoid riverwood...otherwise things get really weird and buggy...

 

Second mod: Random alternate start

This one is less sophisticated, still have to do the main quest. Pretty much a barebones LAL...its okay...I actually like it more because it doesn't tend to give you OP items all over the place. LAL just showers you with items, except left for dead/shipwreck didn't have much...but mostly LAL is just adds too much items. So random alternate start wins out here. I never felt OP and it was really exciting to see where I end up.

 

And as you can tell, the #1 start...Skyrim unbound. Where I experience no game breaking bugs from avoiding helgen (89 hour character thus far, no problems at all. LAL characters broke in less than 30 hours due to not doing helgen. Mod list unchanged. In my setup, not doing helgen breaks everything. Unbound it has not in 89 hours, oldest character I've had that isn't broken from not doing helgen.)

 

An actual mod to not force you to do helgen every single character you make. This is the only reason its #1 and will forever be #1 no matter what start LAL adds. LAL ALL my characters were clone-like...forcing you to do helgen every single time...BORING. At least random alt was more fun.

 

I used LAL for way too long, cause I guess I only stayed with it because I was comfortable with it due to using it so long...didn't expand my horizons.

 

But unbound is far more sophisticated, far more customizable and finally no more lame helgen for the 200th (literally I probably done helgen easily over 200 times...I make a lot of characters xD). Cause skyrim gets really buggy if you decide not to do helgen. Jarls bugged, quests bugged...so LAL kinda breaks the game if you don't do helgen. Same with random alt start (but its at least more fun and less OP)

 

So summary: LAL very bad. Random alt start sorta the same, but less OP and far more fun, Unbound the best

 

(edit:

Now from an RP standpoint. Random alt start would actually be the worst in my opinion. It doesn't give much RP room really. And it is far more gamey. LAL would be rather good at that comparing the two. Since some of the starts are rather good RP backstories. Its major downside is it still forces you to do helgen, so your character no matter the start is always the same. Always the dragonborn, always have to do helgen (unless you want bugged npcs and a broken game later on depending on your mod setup). So again, unbound takes #1 again, where you can truly not be dragonborn at all. Which is vastly better RP than anything else.

[Ashra XIII]

What bugs do you experience from not doing the Helgen quest with LAL? You mention bugs several times, but offer no specific examples. I ask because I often use LAL myself, and basically never go to Helgen. I've never really noticed any significant bugs, but wonder if they are more insidious and I missed them even as they caused me problems.

 

I have also used Skyrim Unbound and like it a lot, for reasons others have stated quite well already. Mainly, I love choosing a completely random start, so even I don't know if my character is the Dragonborn, or if dragons exist in the world until one shows up.

 

I do still tend to go back to LAL though, because I like that it drops me straight into character creation, where Skyrim Unbound has that intro stage first. I usually pick the 'left for dead' start, but also occasionally enjoy starting as a bandit or Forsworn. I have successfully used the vampire start with Better Vampires, and did not get attacked.

 

Never tried the random alternate start, but it's probably not necessary since the other two mods do have random options.

[Guest Vendayn]

Well, maybe some of my mods require doing helgen (though haven't had an issue with Unbound)...

 

But...things I encounter: NPCs scripts break (whiterun jarl)...and if you go to riverwood (my favorite town, so I tend to hang around there a lot)...all the main quest npcs are broken. Like one npc walks back and forth non-stop (the one who doesn't believe his grandma about seeing a dragon).

 

Next is a skyrim problem, if I do helgen at night (and it seems more of a Skyrim problem. This happens in a complete new install, no trace of any mods at all completely new OS install)...all hell breaks loose. Either hadvar or the other guy...if its night...their scripts break and they sprint SUPER fast and fly all over the place and rubberband back. All the helgen NPC that are scripted in riverwood completely break at night. Reload and do it in the day time, and it works fine. You can do this by waiting or whatever to night time. Which isn't LAL fault but bethesda expecting you to complete all helgen to riverwood in the day time. So not mod related but game related...like I said, 0 mods at all, no left over files or anything on a new OS install.

 

The reason it breaks is probably because of night time NPC scripts that break and conflict with day time helgen scripts. Fucked up bethesda there.

 

As a test, I did it on my friends Xbox360 Skyrim...and it did the same thing...we had a good laugh.

 

The main issues I found with LAL are broken NPCs that expect you to do helgen (whiterun jarl, a lot of the riverwood NPCs). And for me, seeing npcs repeat 1000 times and look like some kind of weird testing dummie cyborg thing that is on a 5 second loop is game breaking. I have a slight phobia of things like that...kinda weird probably but it ruins skyrim for me...but it reminds me of going into a neighborhood where every single house/lawn looks exactly 100% the same...freaks me out way too much.

 

Next I noticed not doing helgen tends to do weird things to skyrim. Some mods don't work properly, things get buggy and more CTDs. But on same exact load order with LAL taken out and skyrim unbound put in...I don't have any issues at all. So it can't be totally other mods at fault as I have no issues with Unbound. So maybe something I have conflicts with LAL or some of my mods require helgen...but for me...Unbound is a lot more stable and doesn't have that creepy NPC buggy scripts. And I don't have CTDs like I do with LAL. Granted if I do helgen with LAL I can have a 150+ hour character with no issues...but on my mod list I have to do helgen (or use unbound) or I only get 15-30 hours before things break.

 

[Mord Sif]

I have noticed a few little problems with LAL in Riverwood, too. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes when you rescue one of the two guys from Helgen and follow them down into Riverwood things go screwy. Hadvar says his "there's my uncle" line and then sprints at superhuman speed up to the Sleeping Giant. Stops. Sprints back outside the village at superhuman speed. Stops. Sprints back to the inn at superhuman speed. Stops... and so on without end. You can go up and talk to Alvor and tell him Hadvar said he would help you and have a normal conversation about it, which leads to being sent to Whiterun, but Hadvar won't start his scene, and it sometimes leads to Alvor's daughter remaining static just outside Riverwood (where the guard camp later appears) for the rest of that playthrough.

 

With Ralof he seems to slow to a walk when still a bit outside the village and then slowly stroll all the way round the back of the sawmill without saying his usual lines until you can see Gerdur there, at which point he doesn't move and won't initiate the scene. Again, you can go and talk to Gerdur yourself and be sent to Whiterun for the main quest, and this time Gerdur's son will now spend the entire game standing like a lemon outside the Sleeping Giant.

 

Like I said, it doesn't always happen, and I tend to make a save just before going in to the cave to rescue one or the other of them so I can go back to it if I need to.

 

Sigrid and her daughter need to be inside the house if you go with Hadvar. Hod needs to be working the mill and his son hanging around not far from the tree stump if you go with Ralof. But all those characters have their own routines they're supposed to go through, sometimes interacting with other characters - like the kids playing tag and talking about disguising the dog as a frostbite spider. It's as if the game is trying to reserve one of the two of them for the scene it needs to play when you get there, but is also trying to trigger the scene with both of them together it expects to be able to play, because it thinks the "Before the Storm" quest should already be going. That's my guess, anyway.

 

I've never noticed any problems if I avoid Helgen all together with LAL. Then again, the start I always use for my main character - camping in the woods - puts you right outside the town and Alduin flies off overhead as soon as you begin, completing the vanilla "Unbound" quest by default.

[Ashra XIII]

@Vendayn - Wow that does sound like some craziness, but I've gone into Riverwood at night for the first time that game, and have never had any of those issues. If it happens in vanilla Skyrim for you, I wonder if you've tried it with the Unofficial Skyrim Patch installed? It seems to correct all sorts of weirdness, and that may be one of them.

 

But if you prefer Skyrim Unbound anyways and don't have problems with it, I guess your best bet is to stick with it and avoid the problems altogether. It is a prettyn great mod and I don't see that anything is missed by not using LAL.

[gvman3670]

What bugs do you experience from not doing the Helgen quest with LAL? You mention bugs several times, but offer no specific examples. I ask because I often use LAL myself, and basically never go to Helgen. I've never really noticed any significant bugs, but wonder if they are more insidious and I missed them even as they caused me problems.

 

I have also used Skyrim Unbound and like it a lot, for reasons others have stated quite well already. Mainly, I love choosing a completely random start, so even I don't know if my character is the Dragonborn, or if dragons exist in the world until one shows up.

 

I do still tend to go back to LAL though, because I like that it drops me straight into character creation, where Skyrim Unbound has that intro stage first. I usually pick the 'left for dead' start, but also occasionally enjoy starting as a bandit or Forsworn. I have successfully used the vampire start with Better Vampires, and did not get attacked.

 

Never tried the random alternate start, but it's probably not necessary since the other two mods do have random options.

 

I was skipping Helgen once and any time I got too close to some towns I'd CTD, especially near Windhelm. I guess it's because Ulfric isn't there without doing Helgen?

[imzesok]

      I've used Random start, LAL, and hall of beginnings.  all of them are reasonably done.   LAL is annoying simply because you have to go to Helgan regardless of your choice, making it rather pointless.   I will say though I do like starting in blackreach so I can grab all the crimson nirnroots and get that bonus to alchemy as early as possible.    if one is simply looking to skip the cart ride and the whole Helgan escape part, I'd suggest Dimes Quickstart: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/8207
this automatically completes the unbound quest, and starts "Before the storm".  basically: you create your character, and choose whether you followed Hadvar or Ralof into the keep.  grab items from the chest next to you and walk out of the cave.  I'm pretty sure it blocks the way back into the cave where you encounter the bear and spiders though. 
     As far as bugs go for LAL: I've personally not had any of the issues posted here.   personally i'd probably chalk it up to a script extender glitch(I play exclusively without it now, because it crashes my game every 10-20 minutes or so)  or maybe a driver issue(more likely) if anything.  could also try reinstalling directX as well, but yes, Ulfric won't show in the palace of kings if you've not visited Helgan, but it definitely shouldn't be causing CTDs or dialog breakage.  HoB: I remember there being bugs but I think it was due to another mod I had installed that altered the way death works, so probably harmless if you don't have any other such mod installed.

[Ashra XIII]

SKSE should not crash your game either. If anything, it should reduce crashing because it includes lots of memory-fixing tools that correct vanilla Skyrim's atrocious allocation of system memory which was designed to work for last generation's consoles. 

 

I mean no offense, but I honestly find it crazy to play without SKSE; if you are having crashing issues while it's enabled, I'd say it's worthwhile to spend whatever amount of time it takes to figure out what's really wrong rather than not use it. My other suggestion is to be sure that you not only install SKSE, but set up the .ini file properly because that makes all the difference in the world. You can search for some good tweaks, or use this mod on Nexus which offers a pre-made one that works really well.