Tails/Ears with physics inertia

[b00marrows]

Because this is on hold I deleted the bones from the 2.0 alpha, because they produce quiet much size in the skeleton if you need them I have them on backup.

 

Are you keeping the HDT bones? (removing the additional .X ones)

 

but no problem, ill try to keep a backup.

[Agumon286]

You could always focus on the ears aspect instead...

[b00marrows]

You could always focus on the ears aspect instead...

 

I actually did some research on ears and stuff a while back... i would probably need bones and custom rigged ears, it's a possibility but will most likely be completely one sided as it wont work with any other ears.

 

I will do some more work on the ear's but no promises there.

 

 

A minor update on tail's... i guess.

I have started talking the the creator of the other tail and studied there file's. I MIGHT have seen what I was doing wrong (emphasis on "MIGHT")

[boo]

Would be awesome to get HDT t ails that use the vanilla bones so we can get animation in there too. Then throw in body collision and voila - fixes a bunch of sexlab animations.

[b00marrows]

Would be awesome to get HDT t ails that use the vanilla bones so we can get animation in there too. Then throw in body collision and voila - fixes a bunch of sexlab animations.

 

2 issues here:

the "animations" are almost not worth leaving on as they are terrible.

Recent news tells me HDT overwrites animations so it wouldn't work (i think)

[Guest kimbale]

 

Would be awesome to get HDT t ails that use the vanilla bones so we can get animation in there too. Then throw in body collision and voila - fixes a bunch of sexlab animations.

 

2 issues here:

the "animations" are almost not worth leaving on as they are terrible.

Recent news tells me HDT overwrites animations so it wouldn't work (i think)

 

 

If one uses the newest XPMSE by Groovtama, the HDT and keyframe animation bones are completely different. The weighted bones are moved by HDT, but follow the keyframed bones that are moved by the animations.

 

Someone only needs to duplicate the tail bones and set up rigidbodies with restraints to the keyframed tailbones.

Here are some videos how to do it in 3dsmax: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/9204-an-introduction-to-3ds-max-and-skyrim/

 

[b00marrows]

 

 

 

If one uses the newest XPMSE by Groovtama, the HDT and keyframe animation bones are completely different. The weighted bones are moved by HDT, but follow the keyframed bones that are moved by the animations.

 

Someone only needs to duplicate the tail bones and set up rigidbodies with restraints to the keyframed tailbones.

Here are some videos how to do it in 3dsmax: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/9204-an-introduction-to-3ds-max-and-skyrim/

 

 

I cant use 3dsmax so i guess i cant do that.

 

I made a huge stap forward today, i was reminded i re-added vanilla bones and animations to the tail... after re-removing them i have a functional HDT tail again... Yippee.

[boo]

Can anybody make this happen for a giant internet cookie?

[Kalatorni]

I would be interested to see longer-than-vanilla tails :3

[wtfitfs]

I've spend a few good hours working on tail physics. Based off 0.3 or something; so Vanilla bones.

Didn't really check this place in the meantime.

 

In any case, the tail I started working with was just horrible.

I changed the mesh and most physics options and I'm rather satisfied with the way it behaves now.

Quite realistic overall, although there are some minor issues due to the low amount of bones and polys as well as no body collision, but that's almost irrelevant since I tried to restrict the tails movement towards the front.

[b00marrows]

I've spend a few good hours working on tail physics. Based off 0.3 or something; so Vanilla bones.

Didn't really check this place in the meantime.

 

In any case, the tail I started working with was just horrible.

I changed the mesh and most physics options and I'm rather satisfied with the way it behaves now.

Quite realistic overall, although there are some minor issues due to the low amount of bones and polys as well as no body collision, but that's almost irrelevant since I tried to restrict the tails movement towards the front.

 

Why not post it?

[wtfitfs]

 

I've spend a few good hours working on tail physics. Based off 0.3 or something; so Vanilla bones.

Didn't really check this place in the meantime.

 

In any case, the tail I started working with was just horrible.

I changed the mesh and most physics options and I'm rather satisfied with the way it behaves now.

Quite realistic overall, although there are some minor issues due to the low amount of bones and polys as well as no body collision, but that's almost irrelevant since I tried to restrict the tails movement towards the front.

 

Why not post it?

 

 

 

I thought about the matter and there's a few problems atm.

This is a silly account; any modding credit to it is wasted.

So I should re-register before releasing anything.

 

Additionally the tail base was adjusted to work better; with UNP Skinny in particular.

I'm quite confident that causes some issues with other bodies at least (although it might still look better than the default tail).

 

And the last point: I currently can't capture any videos. I have to install something first and make a record of it.

Otherwise I'm not really expecting anyone to pay attention to it (although I can understand you're interested.. editing these is quite painful).

 

I'll try to address these matters today and post the tail later. I'm sick of tweaking it anyways.

It is good enough now where further tweaking doesn't really pay off anymore.

..and without a manual it's a real bother. I still have no idea what half the things do..

 

I probably only made that douchy previous post because I felt such a burden lifted upon finally feeling the tail is 'finished'.

No idea what else I could have been thinking.

[Microlich]

I'm back. Stupid video capture and editing.

Should have used VirtualDub and nothing else right from the start.

 

I also tested the tail with a few other bodies (some of which I inevitably have due to non-comforming gear).

The body in the video, for example, isn't the one the tail was optimized for; and I had a few instances where it spazzed out for up to 30 seconds or so.

Currently not sure what's causing that; since it happened while just standing around.

 

Now behold the glory of tail. (if these media embeds work)

 

Nope, splendid, I can't post it for some reason! Maybe a normal link?

 

Nope, doesn't work either.

Awesome.

 

I'm gonna assume this is some ill configured spam prevention measure.

 

#Edit: I didn't have the time for this earlier. I've put it on the Nexus. It has the videos and stuff. Khajiit Tail Physics.

 

#Edit2: And it's more popular than I have anticipated.

 

#Edit3: I made a male version from scratch. It was fairly simple. I'll look at Argonian tails next. I guess it would be a waste to forget what I learned before every tail was physified.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Microlich

[b00marrows]

After watching your videos.... I'm a little disappointed. Not you!

It's just that the "spazzing" you are having is EXACTLY why I haven't made a better release. it the only issue i had, i even managed to get some "anti gravity" in there so the tail floats a little upward's.... but the bloody thing just WOULD NOT STOP SPAZZING ABOUT ITS DRIVING ME INSANE!

 

I have remade the tail too many times to count.

I have re-done the bones atlest 7 different times...

I have re weighed the tails mesh 3 times...

I have re-done the .XML at-least 15 times, trying all sort's of things....

 

I have practically given up.

 

Although i just had an idea....

 

Why dont you try using multiple links?

maybe a rope constraint first, to give it a base (i could never get it to work for me). than add other constrain's. maybe the multiple things holding the tail will help... i don't know...

 

Also try mixing multiple different constraints as with testing i noticed some have different effect's, some seem to be more stable while standing still while some where better when moving..

 

Also try messing some "motion type's" as I stated some allow for "anti-gravity" allowing for them to float, rather nice effect.

 

Maybe if you can get hold of a proper program (AKA: not JFF) you could make some more progress there...

[Microlich]

I hear ya!

 

One of the big problems I had was attaching the tail firmly but also allowing some swaying; hence that Generic Constraint I use for it; hinges or the like won't work right since that axis is based on bones or something. The spazzing of the first tail segment is not too hard to control; but it's related to the tails downward bend.

Unbending it slightly should reduce juttering.

 

Also: stop using dampening (if you still use it). It's appears broken; causes a lot of spazzing.

 

From my experience motors also cause more trouble than they help (but occaisonally you manage to configure one just about right).

I mostly changed: center of gravity, timescale, bone pivot positions and angles, bend and twist envelops, and linear movement mostly disallowed.

Pretty much everything else is 0.

 

And what I want is an integrated physics package and exporter for Max... just export the ragdoll envelopes from 3ds max havok. It should be fairly easy.

But unfortunately Bethesda doesn't give a rats ass about exporters.

[b00marrows]

Dammit, now look what you did... i sat around for an hour and a half messing about trying to fix the tail again... damn you!

[Microlich]

I'm currently trying to get a grasp on the 3ds max Havok tools and nif exporter.

Properly applied this should allow for a whole new generation of tails.

 

The skeleton would have to be edited, though.

The bones in a straight line are just too unnatural, no matter 5 or 15. For physics it's best to start with a natural position for both the mesh and bones default position if possible.

It's technically the at-rest position, after all, from what I understand.

Currently I'm bending the tail to achieve my at-rest position, and that's just dumb.

It also causes the spazzing to some degree. Stress.

 

A fully revamped tail would be awesome.

It could be fairly long, too.

[boo]

The important part, if possible is to preserve the influence of animation. One good example is when sitting on the ground, the tail is animated to curl up on the side IIRC. Would be a shame to lose that.

[b00marrows]

 @deadzone45 - It shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out how to adapt the tail to a customrace, if you really cant do it than either me or Microlich should be able to help later.

 

@Microlich - Maybe you should start adding some mini "tutorials". To start an explanation of how to add the HDT tail to custom race's like "Matera" (Deadzone45's request).

Also why have you not posted a link yet??

 

@everyone - Here's a link to Microlich's post on the nexus.

 

Not to sound nasty but its practically just V0.4 or whatever that i never released as i threw everything out the window trying to fix something that seems impossible to fix... Anyway in my spare time i will spend some more time messing about with it trying to fix that majour issue...

 

On a side note... it seems in the .nif file you are using the "HDT tailbone0X" bones, is this not causing issues? dose xp32 come with these bones now?

[Microlich]

Hey, sorry for the long delay. I have been quite busy IRL and did not get much modding done.

Today I got around to making a simple tail mesh/rig and exporting it for Havok.. worked on the first try!

Naturally it looked like a noodle... but we've got nowehre to go but up.

 

Thanks for posting the link. No idea if I can post links now.

The male tail is somewhat more calm.. but I don't really work with the vanilla files anymore.

 

I don't really know the secret of the bone names as of yet. My current bones are just HDT Tail01 to 09.

[jacques00]

You are all free to use the assets from my HDT Dragon Tails mod to dissect if you like, I do not mind. As long as it helps, it's cool with me. You don't necessarily have to use the .xmls I've made, you can generate and link your own .xmls to the meshes if you like.

[b00marrows]

Hey, sorry for the long delay. I have been quite busy IRL and did not get much modding done.

Today I got around to making a simple tail mesh/rig and exporting it for Havok.. worked on the first try!

Naturally it looked like a noodle... but we've got nowehre to go but up.

 

Thanks for posting the link. No idea if I can post links now.

The male tail is somewhat more calm.. but I don't really work with the vanilla files anymore.

 

I don't really know the secret of the bone names as of yet. My current bones are just HDT Tail01 to 09.

Good to hear there's progress, i'm still confused on how you are managing to use HDT bones with XP32's skeleton... but in all honesty I don't know that much...

you should probably add the HDT pelvis now its on Groovtama's skeleton.

 

If you could hare the "noodle" tail i would love to see it ... play around with it ... learn from it ...

 

You are all free to use the assets from my HDT Dragon Tails mod to dissect if you like, I do not mind. As long as it helps, it's cool with me. You don't necessarily have to use the .xmls I've made, you can generate and link your own .xmls to the meshes if you like.

Thank's 

[Microlich]

you should probably add the HDT pelvis now its on Groovtama's skeleton.

 

If you could hare the "noodle" tail i would love to see it ... play around with it ... learn from it ...

Good to hear there's progress, i'm still confused on how you are managing to use HDT bones with XP32's skeleton... but in all honesty I don't know that much...

 

From what I understand (which is little) the HDT bones don't really have anything to do with the skeleton.

You need one skeleton bone to constraint your whole HDT rig to the skeleton keyframes and hence mesh,

but the HDT bones themselves are extra bones.

 

I don't really work with the XP32 bones. Just add a few; and not even to the skeleton file; they're just part of the mesh.

In essence you just add 'handles' for the physics to grab.

 

I sitll have the usual 5 tail bones, but they are unused.

[Microlich]

As the next step I succeeded in creating a heavy rope kind of thing. Working really smoothly, it seems.

 

I also succeeded in turning the game into a horror freakshow by accidentally physifying a Spine bone.

Igor? IGOR!!!!

 

I'll check back later once I've repaired my spine...

 

Still no real idea whether we can blend physics and animation on the same bone.

 

#Edit: Apparently 'tau' is how hard the constraint limits are enforced. It should consequently be 1,0 unless you're okay with limits being overstreched.

I don't even have that in Max. Likewise, I can export with a given Max Friction Torque, which, according to the docs, should make a constraint more stiff.

I don't have that in the XML editor.

[b00marrows]

 

you should probably add the HDT pelvis now its on Groovtama's skeleton.

 

If you could hare the "noodle" tail i would love to see it ... play around with it ... learn from it ...

Good to hear there's progress, i'm still confused on how you are managing to use HDT bones with XP32's skeleton... but in all honesty I don't know that much...

 

From what I understand (which is little) the HDT bones don't really have anything to do with the skeleton.

You need one skeleton bone to constraint your whole HDT rig to the skeleton keyframes and hence mesh,

but the HDT bones themselves are extra bones.

 

I don't really work with the XP32 bones. Just add a few; and not even to the skeleton file; they're just part of the mesh.

In essence you just add 'handles' for the physics to grab.

 

I sitll have the usual 5 tail bones, but they are unused.

 

Hmm... good to know, makes sense to me.

 

As the next step I succeeded in creating a heavy rope kind of thing. Working really smoothly, it seems.

 

I also succeeded in turning the game into a horror freakshow by accidentally physifying a Spine bone.

Igor? IGOR!!!!

 

I'll check back later once I've repaired my spine...

 

Still no real idea whether we can blend physics and animation on the same bone.

 

#Edit: Apparently 'tau' is how hard the constraint limits are enforced. It should consequently be 1,0 unless you're okay with limits being overstreched.

I don't even have that in Max. Likewise, I can export with a given Max Friction Torque, which, according to the docs, should make a constraint more stiff.

I don't have that in the XML editor.

 

As it goes logically it shoulden't work.

HDT tell's tail to go here and the animations tells it to go there, IF it worked it would put un-needed strain on the CPU via constant strings or command arguments. resulting in decreased performance AND bad/ugly/spazzy movement.

 

Anyway, I'm guessing you made the "spine" your "hook" and you accidentally added that to the rope-tail you made right?

 

Something you can try: (i hope you understand, not 100% on this as im banking on my memory working...)

play around with the "rigid-body" -> "motion type" settings, some allow for negative weight or gravity which results in an upwards/floating look. this should give it more of a "living" look...