If the Institute was Truly Evil...

[MrGrey]

.... the Institute would sell made to order type 4 Synths as Robowaifus with a couple of lights on the sides of their head to indicate they're synths.

• make the Commonwealth think the Institute has value.
• Normalize commerce with the Commonwealth. They could use the caps from Robowaifu sales to buy scrap from surface folks, and not need to send out armed Type 1 & 2 synths.
• Happy to serve synths that could be used for work or play.
• Work with Mayor McDummy at Diamond City to sell pet licenses for Robowaifu ownership. I'm sure McDummy will agree if the Institute says it's okay.
• Make the commonwealth birth rate fall even lower than the extinction level that it is since Synths can't produce children, so they Institute could take over the surface decades sooner than they plan. 

Seems obvious to me. The problems with a  mod for this is that the Robowaifus would have to be unique, or based on half a dozen uniques, just like gunners and raiders and settlers.

[travelmedic]

It's all fun and games until we have to send out Harrison Ford to track down and kill some escaped Robowaifus, and all those memories will be lost, like tears in the rain.

[South8028]

In Bethesda's initial concepts, the Institute was much larger. The Institute had complete control over the Commonwealth. The Institute had a Sky Hunter transport and Hunters with flying backpacks, nets, and nerve gas. They captured samples on the surface, caught people, and looked for unique DNA. The Institute didn't hide at all and opened all the doors with their feet.In pre-release concept art, everything looked roughly like in the Blame manga! In general, due to the weak capabilities of havok, Bethesda had to abandon the original plans for the Institute. The script was probably repeatedly shortened to meet the deadline.Well, of course, although Fo4 is a social satire, it is not so much that it would occur to anyone to insert fembots into the game upon release.😁

[Miauzi]

Vor 7 Stunden sagte South8028:

In Bethesdas ursprünglichen Konzepten war das Institut deutlich größer. Es kontrollierte das Commonwealth vollständig. Es verfügte über einen Sky Hunter und Jäger mit fliegenden Rucksäcken, Netzen und Nervengas. Sie sammelten Proben an der Oberfläche, fingen Menschen und suchten nach einzigartiger DNA. Das Institut versteckte sich nicht und öffnete alle Türen mit den Füßen. In den Konzeptzeichnungen vor der Veröffentlichung sah alles ungefähr so aus wie im Blame-Manga! Aufgrund der schwachen Fähigkeiten von Havok musste Bethesda die ursprünglichen Pläne für das Institut aufgeben. Das Drehbuch wurde wahrscheinlich mehrmals gekürzt, um die Deadline einzuhalten. Obwohl Fo4 eine Sozialsatire ist, käme niemand auf die Idee, Fembots in das Spiel einzubauen. 😁

 

But what would have been the idea for a viable (and halfway interesting) plot for the main story?

 

Why even need samples for human DNA?

Remember: Level 3 Synths already existed in "Fallout 3"... and that takes place 10 years BEFORE Fallout 4.

 

The basic idea of creating a "being" (which can be completely controlled, aka "programmed") for the task of "information gathering" or sabotage requires a near-perfect copy of the human "exterior" (yes, even a shell of "flesh and skin") and a "copycat" of human social behavior.

 

The idea of controllable human androids based entirely on (modified) human DNA is not a new topic for the science fiction... but rather represents its own very extensive subset.

 

Although Bethesda acquired the rights to the "Fallout" universe many years ago, it probably never fully understood its inner logic... and the few who were even remotely familiar with it probably left the company BEFORE "Fallout 4."

 

Why did they need "clean" DNA?

Because they originally didn't want to create "clone slaves" (aka Synth 3.0)... but rather genetically improve humanity (i.e., themselves).

Unfortunately, this only comes up in a brief conversation between the "player" and one of the leading scientists (in the atrium)... the topic of "hubris."

 

But why the enslavement of genetically superior humans?

No real (i.e., understandable, to me) justification is given for this.

The official explanation is the shortage of labor (mechanical Synths 1.0 and 2.0).

But why don't they occupy the huge (functional!) robot factory – which hasn't yet been discovered by the population?

 

When I began working on my own blog story for the Fallout universe, I deliberately chose a starting scenario in which all the necessary technologies and narrative approaches were already present in the base game.

 

My character has both the biological body (as Synth 3.0) and the memories of a Chinese spy (cover identity "Donima") from the time before "the bombs fell."

For the memories, I used the technology that was used to create Synth 2.5, aka "Nick Valentine."

 

I'll "spin" a thread here:

What's the argument against taking a person's memories (i.e., their "essence") and transferring them to a new (younger and improved) "clone" body?

It would be the key to "immortality."

The Institute has the "building blocks" for this in the base game - why there isn't such a project... a lot of room for speculation.

 

And by the way:

There are biological sex slaves – you even encounter a Synth 3.0 in one of the residential areas.

This is exactly where I started – why they resorted to the old existing memory storage of a dominatrix (with Asian roots) from the "pre-war era."

[MrGrey]

8 hours ago, South8028 said:

In Bethesda's initial concepts, the Institute was much larger. The Institute had complete control over the Commonwealth. The Institute had a Sky Hunter transport and Hunters with flying backpacks, nets, and nerve gas. They captured samples on the surface, caught people, and looked for unique DNA. The Institute didn't hide at all and opened all the doors with their feet.In pre-release concept art, everything looked roughly like in the Blame manga! In general, due to the weak capabilities of havok, Bethesda had to abandon the original plans for the Institute. The script was probably repeatedly shortened to meet the deadline.Well, of course, although Fo4 is a social satire, it is not so much that it would occur to anyone to insert fembots into the game upon release.😁

Good to know, Austin!

[Count Chocula]

5 hours ago, Miauzi said:

I'll "spin" a thread here:

What's the argument against taking a person's memories (i.e., their "essence") and transferring them to a new (younger and improved) "clone" body?

It would be the key to "immortality."

The Institute has the "building blocks" for this in the base game - why there isn't such a project... a lot of room for speculation.

If you're not transplanting the person's brain (or their brain chemicals or whatever) into a new body then you're making a copy, like a clone. Perhaps that's why you put "immortality" in quotes. So my argument against it is that it is misleading if the pitch to the potential customer is that it's a path to immortality.

 

If "their brain/brain chemicals" are what you mean by "essence" then that argument does not apply.

[South8028]

8 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

But what would have been the idea for a viable (and halfway interesting) plot for the main story?

 

Why even need samples for human DNA?

Remember: Level 3 Synths already existed in "Fallout 3"... and that takes place 10 years BEFORE Fallout 4.

 

The basic idea of creating a "being" (which can be completely controlled, aka "programmed") for the task of "information gathering" or sabotage requires a near-perfect copy of the human "exterior" (yes, even a shell of "flesh and skin") and a "copycat" of human social behavior.

 

The idea of controllable human androids based entirely on (modified) human DNA is not a new topic for the science fiction... but rather represents its own very extensive subset.

 

Although Bethesda acquired the rights to the "Fallout" universe many years ago, it probably never fully understood its inner logic... and the few who were even remotely familiar with it probably left the company BEFORE "Fallout 4."

 

Why did they need "clean" DNA?

Because they originally didn't want to create "clone slaves" (aka Synth 3.0)... but rather genetically improve humanity (i.e., themselves).

Unfortunately, this only comes up in a brief conversation between the "player" and one of the leading scientists (in the atrium)... the topic of "hubris."

 

But why the enslavement of genetically superior humans?

No real (i.e., understandable, to me) justification is given for this.

The official explanation is the shortage of labor (mechanical Synths 1.0 and 2.0).

But why don't they occupy the huge (functional!) robot factory – which hasn't yet been discovered by the population?

 

When I began working on my own blog story for the Fallout universe, I deliberately chose a starting scenario in which all the necessary technologies and narrative approaches were already present in the base game.

 

My character has both the biological body (as Synth 3.0) and the memories of a Chinese spy (cover identity "Donima") from the time before "the bombs fell."

For the memories, I used the technology that was used to create Synth 2.5, aka "Nick Valentine."

 

I'll "spin" a thread here:

What's the argument against taking a person's memories (i.e., their "essence") and transferring them to a new (younger and improved) "clone" body?

It would be the key to "immortality."

The Institute has the "building blocks" for this in the base game - why there isn't such a project... a lot of room for speculation.

 

And by the way:

There are biological sex slaves – you even encounter a Synth 3.0 in one of the residential areas.

This is exactly where I started – why they resorted to the old existing memory storage of a dominatrix (with Asian roots) from the "pre-war era."

Who knows? Nobody knows the original script. One blogger argued that initially there was no female character in the game, and Nate escaped from alien captivity. 😁 The Institute, accordingly, could do anything, and it had nothing to do with the vanilla plot. The vanilla Institute lacks darkness. I don't like the concept with all these plastic walls, plastic items. I would assemble everything in a concrete industrial setting, in the style of Terminator. Lots of concrete, lots of metal structures, automatic assembly shops of 1st generation synths, a large loader, like on an aircraft carrier, for transports. At the top is a particle accelerator - Teleport. The institute's sections can be connected by train.

The trains would simply go in a loop with the simplest sequences. It would be interesting to remake the Institute. I can easily make models, animations, furniture, basically any game resources, but I have no desire to collect everything in ck. The Institute is big, it will take damn years. 🙂

Edited March 31, 2025 by South8028

[Miauzi]

Vor 7 Stunden sagte chocula:

Wenn man das Gehirn einer Person (oder ihre Gehirnchemikalien oder was auch immer) nicht in einen neuen Körper transplantiert, erstellt man eine Kopie, quasi einen Klon. Vielleicht setzt man deshalb „Unsterblichkeit“ in Anführungszeichen. Mein Argument dagegen ist, dass es irreführend ist, dem potenziellen Kunden einen Weg zur Unsterblichkeit zu versprechen.

 

Wenn Sie mit „Essenz“ „ihr Gehirn/ihre Gehirnchemikalien“ meinen, dann trifft dieses Argument nicht zu.

 

In the game's process, the original brain is destroyed – merely the "pattern" is read out and "imprinted" on the new brain.

 

But even with "teleporting," the original body (and thus the brain) is destroyed and later reassembled at the destination.

 

At least from the perspective of classical matter (i.e., atoms or molecules), the bodies of the people in question are destroyed in both applications.

What isn't destroyed -> the information about the arrangement of matter... which can be reconstructed accordingly.

 

For many decades, science fiction and philosophy have been discussing this – what constitutes an original and what fundamentally distinguishes it from a copy... also in connection with "immortality."

 

In this game, too, you'll find an approach to thinking about it yourself -> Nick Valentine

This "being" is trying to figure out for itself what it actually is.

 

This aspect was one of the main reasons for creating my protagonist's background in this way... and of course, the topic "What am I really?" is a central aspect of my blog story!

[Miauzi]

Vor 6 Stunden sagte South8028:

Wer weiß? Niemand kennt das Originaldrehbuch. Ein Blogger behauptete, dass es ursprünglich keine weibliche Figur im Spiel gab und Nate aus der Gefangenschaft der Außerirdischen geflohen sei. 😁 Das Institut konnte also alles tun, und es hatte nichts mit der Handlung des Originals zu tun. Dem Original-Institut fehlt es an Düsternis. Mir gefällt das Konzept mit all den Plastikwänden und Plastikgegenständen nicht. Ich würde alles in einer industriellen Betonkulisse im Stil von Terminator zusammenbauen. Viel Beton, viele Metallstrukturen, automatische Montagehallen für Synthesizer der ersten Generation, ein großer Lader, wie auf einem Flugzeugträger, für Transporte. Oben befindet sich ein Teilchenbeschleuniger – ein Teleporter. Die Bereiche des Instituts können mit dem Zug verbunden werden.

Die Züge würden einfach in einer Schleife mit den einfachsten Sequenzen fahren. Es wäre interessant, das Institut neu zu gestalten. Ich kann problemlos Modelle, Animationen, Möbel und im Grunde alle Spielressourcen erstellen, aber ich habe keine Lust, alles in ck zu sammeln. Das Institut ist groß, es wird verdammt lange dauern. 🙂

 

If there really was such a thing as a "script"... and it wasn't just a simple "idea sketch" - among several.

 

What kind of "darkness" are you actually writing about?

From a pure "story" perspective, the Institute is already more than "dark" enough... in my native language, I'd call it "science Nazis."

 

If you mean "darkness" in the context of architectural style and lighting... all of that already exists in the vanilla game.

You just have to choose the militia path in the endgame - that's where you'll get through exactly such "industrial" building sections.

Until then, they're only hinted at... you should listen to the reports of the escaped synths - when they talk about what they saw at the Institute.

 

Furthermore, you can't overdo it... you should always keep in mind that the institute was originally a pure research facility (the CIT)... and thus functions as a kind of "copy" of MIT from our own world!

 

And with a mega-factory for mechanical androids, the need to use "biological" androids as labor slaves is completely eliminated.

 

---

 

Another (important for me) aspect -> these rooms are a generational spaceship bound to the ground.

You are born in the institute, grow up, and ultimately die there. How does your planned DARK industrial architecture affect the creativity of the children growing up (and born there)?

 

I'm referring to the plot of the movie "Iron Sky."

The "Moon Nazis" have produced exactly two innovations in the decades they have lived on the moon (the back side):

1) the extraction of helium-3 from lunar rock

2) the military application of this helium-3 as a superweapon

 

But they haven't managed to further develop the computer technology they brought with them to the moon – so that their amazing combat spaceship "Götterdämmerung" could even take off from the surface!

 

---

 

Ultimately, you can circumvent all of this by implementing a central AI in the style of "Sky-Net" (aka "Terminator")... but then there's no need for "humans" in the Institute.

Remember that "Fallout 3" already featured a central AI (the "President") -> in the Enclave!

[South8028]

27 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

If there really was such a thing as a "script"... and it wasn't just a simple "idea sketch" - among several.

 

What kind of "darkness" are you actually writing about?

From a pure "story" perspective, the Institute is already more than "dark" enough... in my native language, I'd call it "science Nazis."

 

If you mean "darkness" in the context of architectural style and lighting... all of that already exists in the vanilla game.

You just have to choose the militia path in the endgame - that's where you'll get through exactly such "industrial" building sections.

Until then, they're only hinted at... you should listen to the reports of the escaped synths - when they talk about what they saw at the Institute.

 

Furthermore, you can't overdo it... you should always keep in mind that the institute was originally a pure research facility (the CIT)... and thus functions as a kind of "copy" of MIT from our own world!

 

And with a mega-factory for mechanical androids, the need to use "biological" androids as labor slaves is completely eliminated.

 

---

 

Another (important for me) aspect -> these rooms are a generational spaceship bound to the ground.

You are born in the institute, grow up, and ultimately die there. How does your planned DARK industrial architecture affect the creativity of the children growing up (and born there)?

 

I'm referring to the plot of the movie "Iron Sky."

The "Moon Nazis" have produced exactly two innovations in the decades they have lived on the moon (the back side):

1) the extraction of helium-3 from lunar rock

2) the military application of this helium-3 as a superweapon

 

But they haven't managed to further develop the computer technology they brought with them to the moon – so that their amazing combat spaceship "Götterdämmerung" could even take off from the surface!

 

---

 

Ultimately, you can circumvent all of this by implementing a central AI in the style of "Sky-Net" (aka "Terminator")... but then there's no need for "humans" in the Institute.

Remember that "Fallout 3" already featured a central AI (the "President") -> in the Enclave!

There is a short anime. Cocoon. There is an interesting design of an underground complex on the Moon. In reality, such underground structures actually have strict technical requirements. This is not just a generation ship. This is a real ship floating in groundwater and permafrost. It all looks extremely monolithic and reliable. The institute does not look real. It looks like a plastic craft.The Institute is a center of constant operational work. Its core can in no way be a pile of glass with benches. It is a center for group gatherings, a center for preparing equipment and weapons, a teleport, etc. Also, it is worth thinking about the size (the illusion of size).It is impossible to assemble a synth from nothing in any way. Obviously, the Institute must have a full production cycle. From mining to component manufacturing. Especially electronics, which requires a huge material and technical base.Therefore, an underground railway connection is necessary. To create the illusion of enormous dimensions. This will provide modularity, the ability to endlessly add sections.The Vanilla Institute is very small and plasticky, giving the impression of a small community that "makes starships out of nothing." I think that the Institute is based not on MIT, but on Boston Dynamics. This is Bethesda's banter.

[Miauzi]

Vor 2 Stunden sagte South8028:

Es gibt einen kurzen Anime. Cocoon. Es gibt einen interessanten Entwurf eines unterirdischen Komplexes auf dem Mond. In Wirklichkeit unterliegen solche unterirdischen Strukturen strengen technischen Anforderungen. Dies ist nicht nur ein Generationenschiff. Dies ist ein echtes Schiff, das im Grundwasser und Permafrost schwimmt. Alles sieht extrem monolithisch und zuverlässig aus. Das Institut sieht nicht echt aus. Es sieht aus wie ein Plastikschiff. Das Institut ist ein Zentrum ständiger operativer Arbeit. Sein Kern kann keineswegs ein Glashaufen mit Bänken sein. Es ist ein Zentrum für Gruppentreffen, ein Zentrum zur Vorbereitung von Ausrüstung und Waffen, ein Teleport usw. Auch die Größe (die Illusion von Größe) sollte berücksichtigt werden. Es ist unmöglich, einen Synthesizer aus dem Nichts zusammenzubauen. Natürlich muss das Institut einen vollständigen Produktionszyklus haben. Vom Bergbau bis zur Komponentenfertigung. Insbesondere Elektronik, die eine enorme materielle und technische Basis erfordert. Daher ist eine unterirdische Eisenbahnanbindung notwendig, um die Illusion enormer Dimensionen zu erzeugen. Dies ermöglicht Modularität und die Möglichkeit, endlos Abschnitte hinzuzufügen. Das Vanilla Institute ist sehr klein und plastisch und vermittelt den Eindruck einer kleinen Gemeinschaft, die „Raumschiffe aus dem Nichts baut“. Ich glaube, das Institut basiert nicht auf dem MIT, sondern auf Boston Dynamics. Das ist Bethesdas Geplänkel.

 

If you actually consider how large (or complex) such multi-generational bunkers need to be to ensure survival for at least 5-10 generations without the level of health, technology, science, and sociology declining... then EVERY Vault in the Fallout universe would have to be at least 100 times larger.

In terms of the number of rooms, the number of people, AND, above all, the food production.

(I spent a long time working on this very thing as part of a project during my engineering studies 40 years ago.)

 

There was once a mod based on "Fallout 3" or "NV" that attempted to at least partially implement this... ultimately, it fails due to the usable "engine."

 

And so, in this world (this also applies to TES worlds), all bunkers and all settlements always seem extremely unrealistic... the VISIBLE food production alone is completely inadequate.

Since bandits DON'T have children, where will all the offspring for these countless "outlaws" come from?

 

Which brings us back to the Institute.

As a player, you can initially only enter the "core" – the area where the human elite resides.

But that there must also be sites for energy generation and production – and, of course, for the "storage" of the slave laborers… you actually know that long before entering the Institute -> among other things, through the conversation with "H2."

The escaped synth also says that very few of them are even deployed in the core inhabited by their "masters"… he knows the part of the Institute that lies behind the "plastic shell" you described.

As a player, you can enter a very small part of this area "behind the plastic wall" for a small side mission.

 

So, in conclusion:

Both already exist – because both are necessary… but what is necessary from the perspective of a viable plot to also represent it "visually" (in 3D constructions).

[Count Chocula]

On 3/31/2025 at 2:08 AM, Miauzi said:

 

Spoiler

In the game's process, the original brain is destroyed – merely the "pattern" is read out and "imprinted" on the new brain.

 

But even with "teleporting," the original body (and thus the brain) is destroyed and later reassembled at the destination.

 

At least from the perspective of classical matter (i.e., atoms or molecules), the bodies of the people in question are destroyed in both applications.

What isn't destroyed -> the information about the arrangement of matter... which can be reconstructed accordingly.

 

For many decades, science fiction and philosophy have been discussing this – what constitutes an original and what fundamentally distinguishes it from a copy... also in connection with "immortality."

 

In this game, too, you'll find an approach to thinking about it yourself -> Nick Valentine

This "being" is trying to figure out for itself what it actually is.

 

This aspect was one of the main reasons for creating my protagonist's background in this way... and of course, the topic "What am I really?" is a central aspect of my blog story!

 

Synth Nick, in my opinion, is not pre-war Nick, he's a copy. That is probably a completely non-contrroversial opinion since in the game Nick himself acknowledges he's a copy of pre-war Nick. Pre-war Nick did not achieve immortality by having his "brain essence" (or whatever term we want to use) copied onto a synth. Again, probably a completely non-controversial opinion.

 

"What/who am I?" is, as you say, a staple of sci fi stories. I doubt Phillip K. Dick "invented" it, but he's probably the author most associated with it nowadays thanks to Blade Runner, Total Recall plus other adaptations of his works.

Edited April 2, 2025 by chocula

[South8028]

15 hours ago, chocula said:

Synth Nick, in my opinion, is not pre-war Nick, he's a copy. That is probably a completely non-contrroversial opinion since in the game Nick himself acknowledges he's a copy of pre-war Nick. Pre-war Nick did not achieve immortality by having his "brain essence" (or whatever term we want to use) copied onto a synth. Again, probably a completely non-controversial opinion.

 

"What/who am I?" is, as you say, a staple of sci fi stories. I doubt Phillip K. Dick "invented" it, but he's probably the author most associated with it nowadays thanks to Blade Runner, Total Recall plus other adaptations of his works.

This is the paradox of the Ship of Theseus taken to its extreme. Also, the problem of quantum teleportation and digitalization of consciousness. For an individual personality, quantum teleportation and digitalization of consciousness are meaningless. In both cases, the personality simply dies and is replaced by a copy. Perhaps it is a perfect copy, but it is a completely different being.V. Vinge suggests solving this problem with the same methods. Transhumanization of artificial consciousness. A situation when artificial consciousness is implanted into a person during life and the person does not distinguish which part of it is biological and which part is artificial. After death, the artificial part will continue to exist as the same creature.

[Miauzi]

Vor 46 Minuten sagte South8028:

Dies ist das Paradoxon des Theseus-Schiffs auf die Spitze getrieben. Ebenso das Problem der Quantenteleportation und der Bewusstseinsdigitalisierung. Für eine individuelle Persönlichkeit sind Quantenteleportation und Bewusstseinsdigitalisierung bedeutungslos. In beiden Fällen stirbt die Persönlichkeit einfach und wird durch eine Kopie ersetzt. Vielleicht ist es eine perfekte Kopie, aber es ist ein völlig anderes Wesen. V. Vinge schlägt vor, dieses Problem mit denselben Methoden zu lösen. Transhumanisierung des künstlichen Bewusstseins. Eine Situation, in der einem Menschen zu Lebzeiten künstliches Bewusstsein implantiert wird und der Mensch nicht unterscheidet, welcher Teil davon biologisch und welcher künstlich ist. Nach dem Tod existiert der künstliche Teil als dasselbe Wesen weiter.

 

A 100% copy is indistinguishable from the original - hence, there are either two "copies" or two "originals"... but the distinction between the two is completely meaningless.

 

Especially since even an "original" is constantly undergoing changes - for example, biological metabolism leads to the exchange of atoms between the body and the environment.

Similarly, information processing in the brain constantly causes it to change.

 

Of course, the case of "Nick Valentine" differs significantly from this - even though he possesses the original person's genuine memories -> he does not possess a biological body.

 

But that's different with my (fictionalized) character (for the blog story) - her synth body was reconstructed from the stored genetic data... of course with the "usual" improvements - but also with further modifications... hence not Synth 3.0 but 3.5.

 

Which makes the topic even more complex -> when she "wook up" at the Institute, she only had the memories of her "dominatrix" identity at her disposal.

That there is another layer beneath it - that of the Chinese spy... is only revealed AFTER her escape from the Institute.

 

With the resurfacing of the Chinese submarine in Boston harbor, I then added another layer to the plot -> the commander is a person she knows well from the time before the bombing!

 

In order to get close to the Institute and avoid being exposed as an escaped "super" synth, she finally has her external appearance changed into that of "Nora."

 

Vor 17 Stunden sagte chocula:

Meiner Meinung nach ist Synth Nick nicht der Vorkriegs-Nick, sondern eine Kopie. Diese Meinung ist vermutlich völlig unumstritten, da Nick im Spiel selbst zugibt, eine Kopie des Vorkriegs-Nicks zu sein. Der Vorkriegs-Nick erlangte seine Unsterblichkeit nicht dadurch, dass seine „Gehirnessenz“ (oder wie auch immer wir es nennen wollen) auf einen Synth kopiert wurde. Auch hier handelt es sich vermutlich um eine völlig unumstrittene Meinung.

 

„Was/Wer bin ich?“ ist, wie Sie sagen, ein fester Bestandteil von Science-Fiction-Geschichten. Ich bezweifle, dass Phillip K. Dick es „erfunden“ hat, aber dank Blade Runner, Total Recall und anderen Adaptionen seiner Werke ist er heute wahrscheinlich der Autor, der am meisten damit in Verbindung gebracht wird.

 

That may be true for the western part of the "Iron Curtain" - in the eastern part, the Polish writer "Stanislaw Lem" dealt with these questions very extensively in the mid-1960s... and it is to him that I usually refer.

 

[Count Chocula]

34 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

A 100% copy is indistinguishable from the original - hence, there are either two "copies" or two "originals"... but the distinction between the two is completely meaningless.

The distinction might be meaningless from outside perspectives, but the two entities know they are different things.

[South8028]

4 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

A 100% copy is indistinguishable from the original - hence, there are either two "copies" or two "originals"... but the distinction between the two is completely meaningless.

 

Especially since even an "original" is constantly undergoing changes - for example, biological metabolism leads to the exchange of atoms between the body and the environment.

Similarly, information processing in the brain constantly causes it to change.

 

Of course, the case of "Nick Valentine" differs significantly from this - even though he possesses the original person's genuine memories -> he does not possess a biological body.

 

But that's different with my (fictionalized) character (for the blog story) - her synth body was reconstructed from the stored genetic data... of course with the "usual" improvements - but also with further modifications... hence not Synth 3.0 but 3.5.

 

Which makes the topic even more complex -> when she "wook up" at the Institute, she only had the memories of her "dominatrix" identity at her disposal.

That there is another layer beneath it - that of the Chinese spy... is only revealed AFTER her escape from the Institute.

 

With the resurfacing of the Chinese submarine in Boston harbor, I then added another layer to the plot -> the commander is a person she knows well from the time before the bombing!

 

In order to get close to the Institute and avoid being exposed as an escaped "super" synth, she finally has her external appearance changed into that of "Nora."

 

 

That may be true for the western part of the "Iron Curtain" - in the eastern part, the Polish writer "Stanislaw Lem" dealt with these questions very extensively in the mid-1960s... and it is to him that I usually refer.

 

If you mean the plot, then it doesn't matter. Bethesda's plot, like the world of fallout, is not based on logic. The plot has one purpose, so that the player can have fun. 

I just wanted to point out that digitalization of consciousness in its classical form is not the key to immortality. A person who digitalized his consciousness for the sake of eternal life will simply die eventually, and he will not care what his copy does. Your copy is not you.

Edited April 3, 2025 by South8028

[Miauzi]

Vor 11 Stunden sagte chocula:

die Unterscheidung Von außen betrachtet mag bedeutungslos sein, aber die beiden Entitäten wissen, dass es sich um unterschiedliche Dinge handelt.

 

This presupposes that the "original" can prove for ITSELF that it is NOT a "copy"... which has already been part of various film or story plots on several occasions.

 

Of course, these "identical twins" (or "multiples") develop more or less differently - depending on the external circumstances.

 

Vor 7 Stunden sagte South8028:

Wenn du die Handlung meinst, ist das egal. Bethesdas Handlung basiert, wie die Welt von Fallout, nicht auf Logik. Die Handlung dient einem einzigen Zweck: dem Spieler Spaß zu bereiten. 

Ich wollte nur darauf hinweisen, dass die Digitalisierung des Bewusstseins in ihrer klassischen Form nicht der Schlüssel zur Unsterblichkeit ist. Jemand, der sein Bewusstsein für das ewige Leben digitalisiert hat, wird irgendwann sterben, und es wird ihm egal sein, was seine Kopie tut. Deine Kopie bist nicht du.

 

Nick Valentine knows that he's not the policeman he was 200 years ago - all he has to do is look at his metallic hands!

 

But what was the real problem at the beginning of his existence?

You learn more about this as a player -> if you travel with him to "Far Habor" and speak with "DIMA" there.

 

Because then it turns out that the "digital memories" also contain the human personality -> the human personality can't figure it out at all - that it's stuck in a mechanical body and serving as a "lab rat" for some unknown person!

 

Which then raises several questions for my blog story:

1) How did my character fare after waking up?

2) Were there any so-called "failures" before the "current" character, and what happened to them?

(Remember the fourth Alien movie!)

3) Are those idiots at the Institute trying to create another "dominatrix" – only this time with much better surveillance?

 

Even within the narrative bubble of "Fallout," it's unclear whether the process required to "recover" an entire personality needs to be so aggressive that it automatically kills the "original."

This is assumed in "Nick Valentine," and I applied it to my agent as well (especially since she was dying from the torture anyway!)... but you also meet the "twins" in the game—one of whom is definitely a synth.

 

Even the "replaced" (like the mayor of D.C. or the farm manager at the sewage treatment plant) have the memories of their "originals"—but they know they're synths.

 

Furthermore, even escaped synths have their memories erased and replaced with "new" ones.

How profound this whole thing actually is—the vanilla game doesn't deal with that... understandable, since 99.99% of all players don't give such things a second thought anyway.

This is the niche of mod authors or blog authors.

[South8028]

2 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

This presupposes that the "original" can prove for ITSELF that it is NOT a "copy"... which has already been part of various film or story plots on several occasions.

 

Of course, these "identical twins" (or "multiples") develop more or less differently - depending on the external circumstances.

 

 

Nick Valentine knows that he's not the policeman he was 200 years ago - all he has to do is look at his metallic hands!

 

But what was the real problem at the beginning of his existence?

You learn more about this as a player -> if you travel with him to "Far Habor" and speak with "DIMA" there.

 

Because then it turns out that the "digital memories" also contain the human personality -> the human personality can't figure it out at all - that it's stuck in a mechanical body and serving as a "lab rat" for some unknown person!

 

Which then raises several questions for my blog story:

1) How did my character fare after waking up?

2) Were there any so-called "failures" before the "current" character, and what happened to them?

(Remember the fourth Alien movie!)

3) Are those idiots at the Institute trying to create another "dominatrix" – only this time with much better surveillance?

 

Even within the narrative bubble of "Fallout," it's unclear whether the process required to "recover" an entire personality needs to be so aggressive that it automatically kills the "original."

This is assumed in "Nick Valentine," and I applied it to my agent as well (especially since she was dying from the torture anyway!)... but you also meet the "twins" in the game—one of whom is definitely a synth.

 

Even the "replaced" (like the mayor of D.C. or the farm manager at the sewage treatment plant) have the memories of their "originals"—but they know they're synths.

 

Furthermore, even escaped synths have their memories erased and replaced with "new" ones.

How profound this whole thing actually is—the vanilla game doesn't deal with that... understandable, since 99.99% of all players don't give such things a second thought anyway.

This is the niche of mod authors or blog authors.

The Institute as it is shown in the game is doomed to a synth uprising and the murder/enslavement of all scientists by synths. It's a matter of time. Arthur Maxson is a clown, but he is right that synths are the end of humanity. The Institute's security systems are ridiculous. Synths manage to escape even from the Institute through a teleport. There are cases of disobedience even among the Coursers, the security structure itself. Total collaboration among scientists.Synths also do not identify themselves as humans. Every synth that discovers they are a synth identifies themselves as non-human. To the point of creating an all-synth community in Far Harbor.Synths have a huge advantage in reproduction and learning. They can be mass-produced and sent straight "from the oven" into battle, or building, or researching... In general, they receive specialization. It is also shown that they are, at a minimum, no more stupid than humans. In general, the Institute really has created something much more terrible than nuclear weapons and this something is poorly controlled by the Institute. An interesting point that emerges from Shaun's dialogues and monologues. In essence, Shaun does not consider the inhabitants of the Commonwealth to be people. From his point of view, they are mutants whose DNA is damaged and they have no future. From his point of view, perhaps the 3rd generation synths are closer to pre-war humanity than the mutants of the Commonwealth and even the scientists of the Institute. Shaun's actions may be meaningful and aimed at creating conflict.From Shaun's point of view, finishing off humanity and passing on civilization to the synths might be a good idea.Shaun dumps all these problems on the player (his parent, who may also be a synth, since it turns out that the survivor has no memory of the events before the war, and, strangely, is not a parent for Shaun, but simply an object of an experiment).

Edited April 3, 2025 by South8028

[Count Chocula]

2 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Because then it turns out that the "digital memories" also contain the human personality -> the human personality can't figure it out at all - that it's stuck in a mechanical body and serving as a "lab rat" for some unknown person!

 

Which then raises several questions for my blog story:

1) How did my character fare after waking up?

2) Were there any so-called "failures" before the "current" character, and what happened to them?

(Remember the fourth Alien movie!)

3) Are those idiots at the Institute trying to create another "dominatrix" – only this time with much better surveillance?

 

Even within the narrative bubble of "Fallout," it's unclear whether the process required to "recover" an entire personality needs to be so aggressive that it automatically kills the "original."

No, I do not remember Alien: Resurrection at all, other than Winona Ryder was in it and somehow Ripley came back to life (or something).

 

Regarding your point about what happens when a personality is "recovered" or "harvested" or whatever word we want to use, makes me wonder what Imari does to give synths like H2-22 new life histories. Does she "steal" them from someone else? Does she (or someone) write up an elaborate life story that's then digitized and implanted into the synth after wiping out the syntn's original memories? Lots of hand waving going on when you start to drill down into it. But that's pretty much true for most fiction, even non-fantastical fiction.

 

Conceptually, it seems like a piece of cake. What makes us who we are is, I am pretty sure, our brain chemicals (although I'm no expert on these matters). So if we could take our brain chemicals out our our brains and put them into an empty brain (or brain-like thing), would that be the same person?

[Miauzi]

Am 03.04.2025 um 13:34 Uhr sagte South8028:

Das Institut, wie es im Spiel dargestellt wird, ist zu einem Synth-Aufstand und der Ermordung/Versklavung aller Wissenschaftler durch Synths verdammt. Es ist nur eine Frage der Zeit. Arthur Maxson ist ein Clown, aber er hat Recht, dass Synths das Ende der Menschheit bedeuten. Die Sicherheitssysteme des Instituts sind lächerlich. Synths gelingt es sogar, durch einen Teleport aus dem Institut zu entkommen. Es gibt Fälle von Ungehorsam, sogar unter den Coursern, der Sicherheitsstruktur selbst. Totale Zusammenarbeit unter Wissenschaftlern. Synths identifizieren sich auch nicht als Menschen. Jeder Synth, der entdeckt, dass er ein Synth ist, identifiziert sich als nicht-menschlich. Bis hin zur Gründung einer reinen Synth-Community in Far Harbor. Synths haben einen enormen Vorteil bei der Reproduktion und beim Lernen. Sie können in Massen produziert und direkt „aus dem Ofen“ in die Schlacht, zum Bauen oder zur Forschung geschickt werden … Im Allgemeinen erhalten sie eine Spezialisierung. Es zeigt sich auch, dass sie zumindest nicht dümmer sind als Menschen. Insgesamt hat das Institut tatsächlich etwas viel Schlimmeres als Atomwaffen geschaffen, und dieses Etwas wird vom Institut schlecht kontrolliert. Ein interessanter Punkt, der sich aus Shauns Dialogen und Monologen ergibt. Im Grunde betrachtet Shaun die Bewohner des Commonwealth nicht als Menschen. Aus seiner Sicht sind sie Mutanten mit beschädigter DNA und ohne Zukunft. Aus seiner Sicht sind die Synths der 3. Generation der Menschheit vor dem Krieg vielleicht näher als die Mutanten des Commonwealth und sogar die Wissenschaftler des Instituts. Shauns Handlungen könnten sinnvoll sein und darauf abzielen, Konflikte zu schüren. Aus Shauns Sicht wäre es eine gute Idee, die Menschheit zu vernichten und die Zivilisation an die Synths weiterzugeben. Shaun schiebt all diese Probleme dem Spieler auf (seinem Elternteil, der möglicherweise ebenfalls ein Synth ist, da sich herausstellt, dass der Überlebende keine Erinnerung an die Ereignisse vor dem Krieg hat und seltsamerweise kein Elternteil für Shaun, sondern lediglich ein Versuchsobjekt ist).

 

The possible synth uprising (part of the "militia" solution) is one of the many gaps in the portrayal of the Institute presented to the player.

 

The "Fusion City" mod family has a solution to this in the "Valkyrie" plot -> a central "shutdown" of the synths - which is part of their "construction."

 

What is a human?

That is probably the central theme of my blog story... and I answer it based on my more than 60 years of life.

 

Of course, this puts me outside the racist groups that predominantly populate this world... although this is also deliberately "fueled" by parts of the Institute - the well-known "divide and conquer."

 

"Mutants"?

Humans as such have always been "mutants" – otherwise, they would have remained "slimy single-celled organisms" from Earth's primordial ocean... because without mutation (i.e., changes in the genetic makeup), there is no evolution at all.

Ignoring this is ultimately the result of the megalomania of "the crown of creation" fueled by various religions.

 

Of course, biological evolution no longer plays a central role in a technological society today – whose achievements (such as medicine) respond much more flexibly to changes.

 

Since we as humans no longer define ourselves purely "biologically" (as animals) – but as "something better"… we have begun to build something like a "civilization."

This also includes – among other things – helping people with genetic abnormalities (diseases)… and not massively marginalizing them through euthanasia laws or even outright slaughtering them en masse (for the sake of "public health")!

 

The very plot of kidnapping a child because they need "genetically" clean material... makes my hair stand on end.

This child has a lower mutation rate - it dates back to the pre-war period.

But what's wrong with that?

Massive genetic changes to the natural environment had already taken place in nature BEFORE the atom bombs finally fell!

There are COUNTLESS examples of this in the game.

 

Yes - the creators of this game ignore their own "lore" - but that's typical of Mr. Todd H.'s era!

 

So the baby "rescued" from the cold tank doesn't have any more or less "genetic drift" than the inhabitants of the CIT bunker... one would think.

This community would have long since fallen into the genetic trap of "inbreeding" - because it's far too small to keep its gene pool stable.

Moreover, it's constantly bringing in "new blood" from the surface!

The player encounters one of these people on their first visit to the Institute... they recognize this person from "Fallout 3."

They meet another person with a "militia" plot.

 

Yes - "Father" despises the people on the surface - only, with his policy of sabotage and terror, he himself causes their chaotic state -> the Institute prevents any social organization and development.

For me, this "being" has thus pronounced its own death sentence.

 

The 3rd generation synths - which "descend" from his DNA - no longer have much to do with him... because unlike him, they are significantly more resistant to the higher background radiation on the surface, for example!

 

This is only possible with massive manipulation of the genetic material... it was even the goal of the Institute to create something "better" - i.e. "faster" and "stronger" and "smarter" etc. etc.

 

Of course, every player, and thus every writer of a story, fills in these many gaps in their own individual way... and how they fill them also says something about their "view of the world."

 

And whether the original players - i.e. "Nora" or "Nate" - are synths or actually humans of the late 21st century -> is completely irrelevant!

[South8028]

2 hours ago, Miauzi said:

 

The possible synth uprising (part of the "militia" solution) is one of the many gaps in the portrayal of the Institute presented to the player.

 

The "Fusion City" mod family has a solution to this in the "Valkyrie" plot -> a central "shutdown" of the synths - which is part of their "construction."

 

What is a human?

That is probably the central theme of my blog story... and I answer it based on my more than 60 years of life.

 

Of course, this puts me outside the racist groups that predominantly populate this world... although this is also deliberately "fueled" by parts of the Institute - the well-known "divide and conquer."

 

"Mutants"?

Humans as such have always been "mutants" – otherwise, they would have remained "slimy single-celled organisms" from Earth's primordial ocean... because without mutation (i.e., changes in the genetic makeup), there is no evolution at all.

Ignoring this is ultimately the result of the megalomania of "the crown of creation" fueled by various religions.

 

Of course, biological evolution no longer plays a central role in a technological society today – whose achievements (such as medicine) respond much more flexibly to changes.

 

Since we as humans no longer define ourselves purely "biologically" (as animals) – but as "something better"… we have begun to build something like a "civilization."

This also includes – among other things – helping people with genetic abnormalities (diseases)… and not massively marginalizing them through euthanasia laws or even outright slaughtering them en masse (for the sake of "public health")!

 

The very plot of kidnapping a child because they need "genetically" clean material... makes my hair stand on end.

This child has a lower mutation rate - it dates back to the pre-war period.

But what's wrong with that?

Massive genetic changes to the natural environment had already taken place in nature BEFORE the atom bombs finally fell!

There are COUNTLESS examples of this in the game.

 

Yes - the creators of this game ignore their own "lore" - but that's typical of Mr. Todd H.'s era!

 

So the baby "rescued" from the cold tank doesn't have any more or less "genetic drift" than the inhabitants of the CIT bunker... one would think.

This community would have long since fallen into the genetic trap of "inbreeding" - because it's far too small to keep its gene pool stable.

Moreover, it's constantly bringing in "new blood" from the surface!

The player encounters one of these people on their first visit to the Institute... they recognize this person from "Fallout 3."

They meet another person with a "militia" plot.

 

Yes - "Father" despises the people on the surface - only, with his policy of sabotage and terror, he himself causes their chaotic state -> the Institute prevents any social organization and development.

For me, this "being" has thus pronounced its own death sentence.

 

The 3rd generation synths - which "descend" from his DNA - no longer have much to do with him... because unlike him, they are significantly more resistant to the higher background radiation on the surface, for example!

 

This is only possible with massive manipulation of the genetic material... it was even the goal of the Institute to create something "better" - i.e. "faster" and "stronger" and "smarter" etc. etc.

 

Of course, every player, and thus every writer of a story, fills in these many gaps in their own individual way... and how they fill them also says something about their "view of the world."

 

And whether the original players - i.e. "Nora" or "Nate" - are synths or actually humans of the late 21st century -> is completely irrelevant!

I'm not a racist either, but... I didn't just mean some beneficial evolutionary mutations, but degeneration as a consequence of radiation exposure of cells. For example, there's a subtle hint in the form of bones scattered around the Commonwealth. Bones are literally everywhere. They can be under a character's bed, or on the table next to his plate. All characters. The settler and the raider, the knight of the Brotherhood and the cultist show low oxetocin. Absolutely the entire Commonwealth has a clear MAOA L gene. The barbarian conqueror gene. Let's be honest. All the characters in the game are pronounced psychopaths. In 200 years they have managed not to build a single society comparable to even the Germanic tribes of the 5th century. Bones have been lying in the streets for 200 years and new bones are only being added to them. War never changes - their way of life.This is not a beneficial mutation. This is atrophy of the Reilly island. Such a society is doomed and it will take thousands of years to restore civilization. Third-generation synths are the synthetic DNA of a pre-war human + beneficial built-in genetic markers. Objectively, a third-generation synth is closer to a pre-war human than the real descendants of the Commonwealth people.As for the Institute's security mechanisms. We see in the game that these mechanisms do not work. Cancellation codes and the global switch will not save if the danger is already inside the Institute. The security system itself can fail at any moment. The security codes will simply be deleted, and the global switch will be blown up. Or the synths' loyalty will be rewritten to a new master in the person of another synth or group of synths.Considering that you are not a racist and consider 3rd generation synths to be the same people who have the right to fight for their freedom... What's wrong with synths taking over the Institute? We see that synths are not stupider than humans, that they are capable of cooperating with each other for survival. They can replace humans and build their own society. I don't think they will have evil intent towards humans.But humans, as they are shown in the game, are incapable of cooperation. They are not even capable of not shooting at synths. If a community of rebellious synths and humans interact, a conflict will occur sooner or later. Given that synths can be produced and immediately receive specialization, humans have no chance against synths.

Edited April 7, 2025 by South8028

[Miauzi]

Vor 2 Stunden sagte South8028:

Ich bin auch kein Rassist, aber ... ich meinte nicht nur einige vorteilhafte evolutionäre Mutationen, sondern Degeneration als Folge von Strahlenbelastung der Zellen. Ein subtiler Hinweis sind zum Beispiel die im Commonwealth verstreuten Knochen. Knochen sind buchstäblich überall. Sie können unter dem Bett eines Charakters liegen oder auf dem Tisch neben seinem Teller. Alle Charaktere – der Siedler und der Räuber, der Ritter der Bruderschaft und der Kultist – weisen niedrige Oxetocinwerte auf. Das gesamte Commonwealth hat eindeutig ein MAOA-L-Gen. Das Gen des barbarischen Eroberers. Seien wir ehrlich: Alle Charaktere im Spiel sind ausgesprochene Psychopathen. In 200 Jahren haben sie es nicht geschafft, eine einzige Gesellschaft aufzubauen, die auch nur mit den germanischen Stämmen des 5. Jahrhunderts vergleichbar wäre. Seit 200 Jahren liegen Knochen auf den Straßen, und es werden ständig neue hinzugefügt. Krieg ändert sich nie – ihre Lebensweise. Das ist keine vorteilhafte Mutation. Das ist die Atrophie der Reilly-Insel. Eine solche Gesellschaft ist dem Untergang geweiht, und es wird Tausende von Jahren dauern, bis die Zivilisation wiederhergestellt ist. Synths der dritten Generation bestehen aus der synthetischen DNA eines Vorkriegsmenschen und sind mit nützlichen genetischen Markern ausgestattet. Objektiv gesehen ähnelt ein Synth der dritten Generation einem Vorkriegsmenschen mehr als den echten Nachkommen des Commonwealth. Was die Sicherheitsmechanismen des Instituts betrifft, sehen wir im Spiel, dass diese Mechanismen nicht funktionieren. Löschcodes und der globale Schalter retten nicht, wenn die Gefahr bereits im Institut ist. Das Sicherheitssystem selbst kann jederzeit versagen. Die Sicherheitscodes werden einfach gelöscht, und der globale Schalter wird gesprengt. Oder die Loyalität der Synths wird auf einen neuen Meister in der Person eines anderen Synths oder einer Gruppe von Synths übertragen. Wenn man bedenkt, dass man kein Rassist ist und Synths der dritten Generation für dieselben Menschen hält, die das Recht haben, für ihre Freiheit zu kämpfen … Was ist falsch daran, wenn Synths das Institut übernehmen? Wir sehen, dass Synths nicht dümmer sind als Menschen, dass sie in der Lage sind, zum Überleben zu kooperieren. Sie können Menschen ersetzen und ihre eigene Gesellschaft aufbauen. Ich glaube nicht, dass sie böse Absichten gegenüber Menschen hegen. Doch Menschen, wie sie im Spiel dargestellt werden, sind unfähig zur Zusammenarbeit. Sie können nicht einmal verhindern, auf Synths zu schießen. Wenn eine Gemeinschaft rebellischer Synths und Menschen miteinander interagieren, kommt es früher oder später zu einem Konflikt. Da Synths produziert werden und sofort Spezialisierungen erhalten können, haben Menschen gegen Synths keine Chance.

 

Why doesn't the "security mechanism" work?

Because it shouldn't work... otherwise, the militia scenario with the "Uprising of the Synths" would be canceled.

That's "scripted" and ultimately as much bullshit as all the plots in the B-movies from the "Asylum" company.

 

Why, after 200 years, Boston is still a wasteland of rubble?

The operators of the "Snuggle" club wondered the same thing.

(https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21469)

The local hardware store even sells paint that hasn't dried out after 200 years... so if you can repaint the wall of a station, you can also renovate a club!

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with "genetics"—meaning any obscure genes—but is due to a bullshit plot by the game developer.

Perhaps one could also cite as an excuse that the Institute has been massively sabotaging any positive development approach for 50 years.

 

The people in and around Boston are not incapable of organizing themselves...they are constantly being prevented from doing so by the Institute!

The player gets this very "thick" in their lunchbox.

 

Synths, as version 3.0, cannot permanently build a society...they lack the ability for THEIR OWN biological reproduction.

This ability—namely, to bear their own children—is only possessed by the "hypothetical" type 3.5...here I'm "knitting" the vanilla plot further with my own abilities and perspectives.

 

In my story, my protagonist is a synth who has escaped.

She must first define for herself what she is... despite her existence at the Institute, she also has the memories (and thus the abilities) of a person from the "pre-war period."

And on her journey, she meets various other intelligent and sentient beings... and realizes that the term "human" has a much broader meaning... it encompasses more than just the humans of that time and today, or the "synthetic" humans.

 

This requires an acceptable solution... which is why destroying the Institute is ultimately the wrong approach.

The "Valkyrie" project suggests a path forward - even if I don't entirely like it in this specific form... but I can write my own plot in my story.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/28085

 

My conclusion:

For me, biological synths are humans... and I won't discuss that anymore after 10 years.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter - but I won't go into it any further.

[Miauzi]

Am 03.04.2025 um 14:19 Uhr sagte chocula:

Was deinen Punkt betrifft, was passiert, wenn eine Persönlichkeit „wiederhergestellt“ oder „geerntet“ wird – oder wie auch immer wir es nennen wollen –, frage ich mich, was Imari tut, um Synths wie H2-22 neue Lebensgeschichten zu geben. „Stiehlt“ sie sie jemand anderem? Schreibt sie (oder jemand anderes) eine ausführliche Lebensgeschichte, die dann digitalisiert und in den Synth eingepflanzt wird, nachdem die ursprünglichen Erinnerungen des Synths gelöscht wurden? Viel Gerede, wenn man tiefer in die Materie eindringt. Aber das gilt so ziemlich für die meisten fiktiven Geschichten, auch für nicht-fantastische.

 

Konzeptionell scheint es ein Kinderspiel zu sein. Was uns zu dem macht, was wir sind, sind, da bin ich mir ziemlich sicher, unsere Gehirnchemikalien (obwohl ich auf diesem Gebiet kein Experte bin). Wenn wir also unsere Gehirnchemikalien aus unserem Gehirn entnehmen und in ein leeres Gehirn (oder ein gehirnähnliches Ding) stecken könnten, wäre das dann dieselbe Person?

 

Here again, there are many, many gaps in the game's basic plot.

 

If we take the "Far Habor" DLC as a starting point, then the memories given to a "normal" synth are sufficient for a normal identity... but they don't reach into the "subconscious."

I deliberately chose the "" here because I know the term isn't precise enough.

 

The character "Naomi" - whom you're supposed to find for her family - is confronted with her "strange dreams."

These "dreams" are supposed to be a clue that one's own memories are only "implanted."

 

During one of the first conversations with Dima, the player is informed that they have very few memories from the time before they were "frozen."

Proponents of the "Nora/Nate are synths" theory like to cite this... but it's just the usual procedure in games when introducing the character.

 

I, in turn, expanded the whole thing even further and added a hidden "layer" to the personality of my pre-war dominatrix -> the Chinese agent.

And the latter only emerges from her "prison" again - when she is confronted by a runner while escaping the institute... and by revealing the reset code, triggers the necessary crisis to break this "prison."

 

Over the years, there has also been discussion about "Kellog's" memories... the theory that they were "artificially" created has repeatedly come up.

I personally consider such a transcontinental shift from the west to the east coast to be possible... especially since I've been playing Fallout since Part 1.

 

---

 

Apart from that – in this science fiction world, no chemicals are extracted from the brain – instead, the fine structure (of the neurons and their connections) is recorded... and manipulated in a "miraculous" way.

Will this ever be possible?

No idea – so far, it's still unclear how memories are stored... and how they are also "forgotten."

 

That's why you have to establish a "lore" in such science fiction stories – by establishing "determinations" (postulates) for the world in question.

One of these "postulates" is the existence of a technology that can "read" a person's memories and transfer them to another brain.

 

Questioning "fusion cores" – which, for example, are used to power power armor – is just as pointless.

In the games up to and including "Fallout NV," the operating life of such a core was approximately 100 years... but Mr. Todd H. had to change that.

 

Why are mods so popular—mods that either extend the lifespan of these cores or add armor—that make a PA unnecessary?

 

[Count Chocula]

42 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

Here again, there are many, many gaps in the game's basic plot.

I did read all your post, but I snipped it down to that sentence for my reply because there's no need for me to quote your entire post.

 

I suspect I am preaching to the converted, but this all boils down to Poul Anderson's or Arthur C. Clarke's (I always forget who it's ascribed to) "willing suspension of disbelief." One thing that really messes up that suspension is when a fictional universe contradicts its own lore, such as what you said about fusion cores lasting 100s of years pre-Fallout 4. Another one is the quest Kid in a Fridge. Billy straight up says he crawled into that fridge when the bombs were falling, so he's been in there 200 years, with no food or water. or any place to piss and shit other than in the fridge. If the lore had established that "Ghouls don't have to ea1, drink or shit," no problems. But we know from Harland at the Repconn Test Site that he at least has to eat. One way a person can reconcile these two differences is by saying "Well, there are different strains of Ghoul, because Ghouls are after all mutated humans, so who knows what the radiation (and FEV, I guess) could have done to different specimens." But that's just white-knigjting because, as far as I know, there's no mention in the lore about "different kinds of Ghouls" (I'm not including ferals).

 

This is unlike the situation with the TV series when it established that Ghouls can go feral. At first I thought that was a load of hooey lore-wise, but then I remembered Rachel's (I think that's her name) holotape message to Oswald in Nuka World. She essentially records herself going feral (not addressing the series' addition of the "keep feralism at bay" drug). I have never played FO1 or 2, but I am unaware of anything in 3 or NV that contradicts the notion of Ghouls eventually going feral. So in that instance, the lore is not contradicting itself (as far as I know).

[South8028]

Synths have a reproduction. This reproduction is very effective. Mass production. Synths are actually printed on a 3D printer, like in Mickey 17. Moreover, during the production process, or for a short period of time after production, the synths are implanted with a ready-made personality and knowledge.Yes, since

 we are tolerant, we can consider synths as normal people. Like... Yes, there are trans people, there is parent number 1, parent number 2, and now there are synths. 🙂 But from an objective point of view, synths are humanoid robots. Androids. Accordingly, their reproduction system is exactly the same as all robots. They are produced in a robot factory. So synths don't have any problems with the lack of biological replication. They just need to build more factories and they can print millions of synths and train them right away and build starships and fill the entire Universe with synth factories.😀

Edited April 8, 2025 by South8028