ESM cleaned, but Steam dislike this

[Tinkering Solderbro]

It's an old story and Bethesda is not interested to change it in any way. So you clean update.esm, dawnguard,esm, hearthfire.esm and dragonborn.esm with xEdit. Some mods like dyndolod force you to do that, but Todd Howard does not like it. Next game start, Skyrim will protest about and reload the unclean esm files for you.

 

That's a pest with no real solution, did zip them, so i can spare another cleaning and unpack my archive after steam. Very annoying.....

 

Any ideas to solve that?

[traison]

15 minutes ago, Tinkering Solderbro said:

Bethesda is not interested to change it in any way.

 

Its not for them to change as long as you're on the Steam platform.

 

15 minutes ago, Tinkering Solderbro said:

Next game start, Skyrim will protest about and reload the unclean esm files for you.

 

Its Steam that does the replacing, not Skyrim. Also, if the files get replaced on launch, you're doing something wrong. Launching Skyrim the way you should (through SKSE) does not (as far as I know) trigger an update from Steam.

 

15 minutes ago, Tinkering Solderbro said:

Any ideas to solve that?

 

The only real solution is to prevent Steam from updating Skyrim. Some people say setting Skyrim's acf file to readonly is enough. Unfortunately however I do not agree with this. They changed the way this works and Steam is now able to get around this. I discovered this years ago while writing a program to protect me from Steam. To stay truly safe from Steam there's a lot more that needs to be done.

Edited July 20, 2024 by traison

[anjenthedog]

Frankly, I didn't realize that we were still supposed to clean the 4 (or 5) primary files. I thought that advise changed after release of 1.5.97/SKESE 2.0.20 to "do not clean". Is that now again the rule for AE? My primaries sure haven't been cleaned since I updated to 1.5.97 long ago.

 

as to steam, I disabled auto-update in their config, and I play with steam offline to be sure of no hankypanky. Hain't a problem since 1.5.80

[traison]

2 hours ago, anjenthedog said:

"do not clean"

 

Not sure I've heard that before, then again, I never saw a reason to do any cleaning regardless of game version. The only time I did it was at the time when xEdit had a bug in it that ended up destroying most of Miraaks arena. That bug has been fixed long ago though, or so I hear. Is that where the "do not clean" recommendation came from?

[anjenthedog]

1 hour ago, traison said:

Not sure I've heard that before

I recall that was expressly stated by several folks who at the time seemed the most "inveterate" and authoritative, around the time 1.5.97  and its adjacent SKSE dropped. it's why I stopped doing it. 

 

idk... I haven't and won't until one of the "big names" says to do it again. TBH, I've had fewer problems since not doing it, than I did back when I  was. 

Edited July 20, 2024 by anjenthedog

[Just Don't]

I've never seen my game detecting nor reverting back my cleaned ESM. What kind of message or error do you get for this?

[Tinkering Solderbro]

The .esm are detected within a "verify game files" or update, than Steam loads them again and replace the cleaned ones. In general blocking the appmanifest with "chattr +i" do really block steam from updating, but in game there is a protest note and we are denied to access the creation club.

 

Long term i will install the GOG version with a lutris script, what spare GOG Galaxy and would never update again until using a lutris function for that. Think that Bethesda will not stay at 1179 and push new versions every few months, so SKSE, Racemenu went up in smoke again and again.

 

[Just Don't]

5 hours ago, Tinkering Solderbro said:

The .esm are detected within a "verify game files" or update, than Steam loads them again and replace the cleaned ones. In general blocking the appmanifest with "chattr +i" do really block steam from updating, but in game there is a protest note and we are denied to access the creation club.

Verifying game files is you literally asking Steam to check if there's any missing or modified files and give you a new copy of the original files to rectify that. And trying to use the CC... no thank you. If you're into that be prepared to deal with all the BS they throw at you.

edit: also you can totally bypass this by packing the modified ESM files and using a mod manager to manage said files instead of keeping the modified files in your actual install. No need to jump to a different release of the game. And Steam updates should be avoided since forever because the only one with full control over your modded game should be you.

Edited July 23, 2024 by Just Don't

[traison]

10 hours ago, Just Don't said:

also you can totally bypass this by packing the modified ESM files and using a mod manager to manage said files instead of keeping the modified files in your actual install.

 

I have a feeling this would only work on MO2 (Edit: *), because Vortex uses NTFS hard links. With links I see 2 outcomes to allowing Steam to replace esm files:

1. Steam deletes the original link and creates a new esm file in its place. This will block Vortex from putting a link to the cleaned esm back when you deploy your mods, unless it deletes the unclened file first (which in itself seems like a bad idea).
2. Steam opens the existing link (because it will appear like any other file) and write into it. This means it will overwrite the cleaned esm.

The reason for this is that NTFS hard links are literally files. When you create a file, you create a hard link to data. Thus the vast majority of all files you have are hard links with a link count of 1. When Vortex creates hard links when deploying mods, its essentially incrementing the link count by one. These hard links all point to the same data, meaning opening the file in one location will edit the file in another location.

 

So, not necessarily saying you're wrong in the case of Vortex being able to handle this. My point is, unless it is specifically programmed to handle this situation, it will most likely fail; and if it is programmed to handle it, it would be important to know how it does it: if it deletes files with a link count of 1 to make room when deploying mods, then Vortex essentially does not have an Overwrite folder like MO2 does and could potentially delete original files (files for which there are no copies, no backups, no way to restore).

 

*  With MO2 you'd still have to delete the new esm files every time they pop up, otherwise it too will not replace them. Still, less work than cleaning the files every time.

Edited July 23, 2024 by traison

[anjenthedog]

As Just Don't said, performing a file verification check will automatically overwrite any (Skyrim package) files that are not in pristine, as-originally-delivered condition, so any original package files that have been modified by you or by an action you've taken will be overwritten with pristine Skyrim package files.

 

illustrative analogy with real world goods:

 

You buy a brand new car. You then modify it by swapping a group of factory installed components with after-market parts. (not talking about adding a wing that wasn't there before, or some seat covers that are applied over the factory seats, or stashing some favorite old CDs in the glove box, (like installing mods),  just original parts swapped with after market parts).

 

You then take it to the (imaginary) "car verifier" that the (imaginary) car company offers, but are shocked when what you receive back is the same car you originally bought, as originally delivered, prior to applying those third party parts.

 

- 

 

The verifier should not be used casually, and the user of said verifier can expect to have to reapply any changes they've made to the original files (including edited ESMs, etc) afterwards, if they do use it. Using the file verification tool won't remove some cool mod you added, but it will replace any "tampered" original files so that the Skyrim package files match their original spec. I'd suggest that using the file verification tool is a "last ditch" measure, unless you play a strictly vanilla game.

 

On a personal note, I kinda wish the medical industry had a "body" verifier.... I could use one