Linux, Anyone?

[DocClox]

I'm thinking of starting a Linux gaming club, here on LoversLab. Gaming on Linux used to be impossibly arcane and glitch prone, but that is no longer the case.  Meanwhile, Win 10 approaches its end of life, and Win11 looks as it it's going to be awful. Never having been much of a windows fan in the first place, I've been inspired to revisit my old Linux partition. So I'd like to have a place where we can share Linux knowledge and expertise, especially as it relates to LL interests.

 

I remember back in the old days, trying to get Oblivion to run under Wine. I'd spend ages tweaking this setting, and flipping that dll, usually to end up with something that was just about playable ... and then the OS would update my Wine version and it all stopped working again. Worse, I just about got Oblivion long-term-stable and Skyrim comes out and there's no sound while everyone was bright blue and had no heads. So eventually I just gave up and played games under Windows.

 

Now I have a brand new Artix Linux install, and the experience couldn't be more different! Skyrim runs flawlessly! SKSE runs without issue. I have sex mods working, shader mods, MO2 managing the whole thing. The only problem was at the start, getting  the system to use the Nvidia Vulkan subsystem, but once that was fixed it's been a breeze.

 

I'm even looking forward to modding again. I'm an old *nix developer, and this opens the possibility of doing properly what I tried to do on windows, and set up linux style workflow for development

 

Anyway, I feel inspired to write some of this stuff up for anyone who might want to do likewise, but it would be nice to have a central hub for the discussion. A few searches show that there are a lot of penguinheads out there, but the know-how is scattered across two dozen threads and posts and trying to find anything specific is a nightmare.

 

Anyway, that's my pitch. Any interest?

 

[User39042]

As I keep saying, Linux should be ___everyone's____ go-to OS. Literally, does 95% of things better than Windows. Framerate for Vulkan games doesn't drop. Proton works with most games. If you want to take the time to setup a complete pass-through Windows VM, you can quickly run programs like Adobe Photoshop on a ~much~ safer version of Windows.
 

That and Windows 10-11 are getting ridiculously bloated and slow. The only reason I haven't switched is because certain things I do require software that needs to interface with system buses which require recompiling Linux kernels and writing new scripts. It's just easier to deal with the BS Microsoft dishes out. But, with how much I get annoyed with Windows, I'll probably be making the switch back soon. I mean you can't even run Window's version of Ubuntu without memory leaks and hangups.

 

But yeah, it'd be great to have a Linux subforum.

[t.ara]

still am i able to always step back to win 7-always..

also possible to boycot more modern systems caused for different reasons...win10/11

linux seems to me not an ideal o.s. for a game-pc-specially not for lot of stuff i use everyday...

hackintosh can use PC hardware and let run mac-osx...nice alternative for lot of software

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by t.ara

[t.ara]

If you got LINUX working like a windows-platform-maybe if there´s running the stuff like we know from win 7/10, this is also interesting me...

I only see the problems upcoming with the differnt drivers, screen support, GPU support and much more.

[DocClox]

20 minutes ago, t.ara said:

If you got LINUX working like a windows-platform-maybe if there´s running the stuff like we know from win 7/10, this is also interesting me...

 

Well now. I've got a KDE/Plasma desktop with is as close to Windows as any version of Windows is to any other. I can start Steam and MO2 from icons on the desktop, and there's a huge list of games that just work. Also, DOSBox works on Linux for those oldies but goodies that don't run on Windows any more. There's also a native GOG Galaxy client.

 

24 minutes ago, t.ara said:

I only see the problems upcoming with the differnt drivers, screen support, GPU support and much more.

 

Well, I have Skyrim running on one of my twin monitors and running better than it does on Windows. It's just a pair of 1080 monitors, so nothing exotic, but they work just fine. GPU drivers are a problem that increasingly looks to be solved. NVidia now has offically blessed open-source kernel modules. I used the low-latency linux-zen kernel and the modules just compiled for the new kernel. But the big game changer is Vulkan. The games aren't tied to the quirks of Microsoft's DirextX API any more.

 

This is not like the old days.

[Slorm]

I'll be interested to see how this goes. I played around with Linux Mint some year back and didn't find it two troublesome for day to day use but there were issues with soundcard drivers and a few other things so I never tested it for games. Things of course has moved on and drivers are no longer an issue as far as I'm aware. Having run a Unix box in the past I probably have a slight advantage though I've forgotten a great deal as that was 15 years ago.

 

I have been seriously thinking about dumping Windows once they try to force us onto Win11 and some of the reviews I've seen about Steam Proton have encouraged me further into that view.

[Grey Cloud]

I've dabbled with Linux a couple of times over the years (Red Hat and Ubuntu?) and have been thinking of having another go, or at least seeing how far things have moved along.

[ToxicAegis]

Linux has improved leaps and bounds over the last few years particularly. Its viability for gaming has increased dramatically. One of the biggest hurdles is that it comes with its own set of quirks and challenges that are different from the ones people are used to dealing with in Windows/MacOS. The difficulty is that most people have already trained themselves to deal with many of those issues, while in Linux it will require extra time and effort to learn. "The devil you know" and all that. I normally don't engage directly online(this will be my first post to the forum), but it's rather exciting to see the potential of multiple things I love coming together. I'm far from an expert in all things Linux / FOSS, but I'd like to help offer any assistance or information I can.

A little bit of my history with Linux, for those interested:

Spoiler

I started using it a few(6?) years ago, almost as soon as I realized it was even an alternative option for a desktop operating system. I'd always known Linux was the go-to choice for servers, but I'd somehow remained completely oblivious to desktop distributions existing. Initially I had an old HP desktop lying around with an Athlon X3, so I decided to install Linux on it, and play around with some things. Tried Ubuntu first for all of 5min before I decided I disliked the unfamiliar feeling of GNOME, then switched over to Linux Mint where I felt a lot more comfortable. Initially I used it more as a something to poke around and play with, but I also installed Plex Media Server and hooked up an external HDD to it for storage. The more I played around with it, the more I enjoyed using it, and eventually decided I wanted to try actually using it properly, so installed it on my desktop. I started distro-hopping between a few different things, Debian, Fedora, etc. but usually found myself back on Arch/Arco before long. More recently I've switched to GNU Guix System for the past few months, and I think I've found my /home. I also have an old server I purchased off eBay a few years back which now hosts various Virtual Machines and Containers for services like Jellyfin, Nextcloud, etc. I've always loved tinkering with computers, both on the hardware and software side of things, so Linux has just been a wonderful fit, I'm still constantly learning new things. Anyway, apologies for the lengthy post, I just thought it might be helpful or interesting to a few people.

 

[Grey Cloud]

I've just had a quick look at some stuff and the first thing that hit me was "Holy acronym city, Batman". ? KDE, PLASMA, GNOME, GUIX.

I'm still up for it though.

I was had a machine with W98, NT4 and Novelle on it. Might have been something else too.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Grey Cloud

[ToxicAegis]

9 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I've just had a quick look at some stuff and the first thing that hit me was "Holy acronym city, Batman". ? KDE, PLASMA, GNOME, GUIX.

I'm still up for it though.

I was had a machine with W98, NT4 and Novelle on it. Might have been something else too.

It's the recursive acronyms I most enjoy.
GNU - GNU's Not Unix
WINE - WINE Is Not an Emulator

[krzp]

I've been using Linux on and off for more than 20 years, currently running Ubuntu on one of my computers. Best thing I can say about it, is that it has reached a point where I sometimes forget which system I'm in at the moment. I'd even say that Windows 11 annoys me far more often, that Ubuntu does.

 

(I'm a simple user, i can't reprogram kernels on the fly or anything, so it's not like you have to be extra big-brained to actually use it ?)

 

Gaming has improved a ton too in recent years, with Lutris, Steam and Proton.

 

And OnlyOffice has fulfilled my word-excel needs nicely.

 

If someone is interested in trying it, it's a perfectly usable system (if one can withstand the initial period where you get used to it), it's easy to install, it usually makes your computer feel faster, and it's free. Give it a shot.

Edited August 11, 2023 by krzp

[t.ara]

win 10 here is now only every second time starting correctly...it´s also doing adds to install now 11....getting again NERVOUS about my system here...I feel provocation.

this is all so crappy and anoying-can ´t all be used for professional purposes: as soon you need professional o.s., you need to install all other stuff, but not microsoft-this is a FACT.

windows is CONSUMER stuff only...modding is okay-but for professional demands I´d only use OLD MAC-osx, linux or others...this is the way it is.

 

 

[zaira]

Every system has its strengths and weaknesses. I'm doing business with Unix and Linux (software development) since decades - but in my opinion Linux is far away from being an optimal gaming platform.

 

Use the right lid for every pot is my motto - so today I'm using Windows for gaming and content consuming, Linux for programming and Mac for graphic/design. This keeps my stress level low and forces me to keep my data system independent.

 

[hart02]

https://forums.lutris.net/t/guide-skyrim-le-modding-on-linux/7153  this thread should be a good starting place for those wanting to dabble with linux.

[krzp]

Mod organizer 2 for Linux

 

Another good guide for overall Linux gaming

Edited August 11, 2023 by krzp

[NickNozownik]

I tried only Rimworld and Stellaris on Garuda, both work with mods without any issues. All frameworks and performance mods work just fine. Speaking of performance there's not much difference between Windows 10/11 and Garuda when it comes to those games. Rimworld is still being Rimworld, which means that without performance mods most endgame colonies are going to be a slideshow. I'm not really interested in other games so I can't really tell how they would work, but I assume it wouldn't be much of a problem to get them running and working with mods.

 

I'm using Windows 11 right now and after disabling a bunch of useless nonsense running in the background it's very fast and responsible. But then again every Windows past XP was a mess if I didn't optimize it. Not necessarily slow, just infuriating to use.

 

No opinion on making a new Linux subforum or club since I tend to do everything myself and/or look it up on the internet.

[Agramon32]

As a total noob how hard it is to learn to use Linux? I am a windows user started with the windows 95/98, but with the load of bloatware that comes with win10 (never tried win11) I'm kind of getting fed up with windows.

[DocClox]

4 hours ago, Agramon32 said:

As a total noob how hard it is to learn to use Linux? I am a windows user started with the windows 95/98, but with the load of bloatware that comes with win10 (never tried win11) I'm kind of getting fed up with windows.

 

There is a bit of a learning curve, but it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Time was, you needed to memorize a ton of command line programs to do anything. These days, an installer will set everything up and leave you with a desktop and a menu. Some of the apps are different, but then most of them have windows ports anyway, so if you've used the likes of The GIMP or Libre Office, you'll be right at home.

 

TL;DR: No harder than learning to use a mac, and probably easier than learning Android.

Edited August 12, 2023 by DocClox

[Slorm]

As to the various desktops and different systems, one of the advantages of Linux is that they are all free and can be run (if setup correctly) from a USB stick rather than committing your main system disk to boot/multiboot. So if unsure of which version you want just grab a few and try them out.

 

I haven't played around with this for a couple of years but from memory a 32Gb stick is enough to run the system and save stuff.

[Uthan The Perverse]

I'm game. I am currently running Endeavour OS and I have been running various distros full-time for the last 7-8 years.

 

I have no issues running all Bethsoft games with the script extenders and with MO2 (version 2.4.2 only).

 

Edit: However, I face some issues in Creation Kit when opening dialogue views or any dialog box that contains a graph/tree view. I suspect that this has something to do with some DLL not being registered in WINE but I am not sure. But gaming wise I am all set.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Uthan The Perverse

[krzp]

12 hours ago, Agramon32 said:

As a total noob how hard it is to learn to use Linux? I am a windows user started with the windows 95/98, but with the load of bloatware that comes with win10 (never tried win11) I'm kind of getting fed up with windows.

Go to ubuntu.com, download the desktop version, flash it on a usb stick and load from it (there are tutorials on how to do that on their website, and all over YouTube)

 

And then just click around and see if you like it - and if you don't, plug out the usb stick and reboot back to your regular system.

 

If you find it a little too Mac-looking for your tastes, you might try Kubuntu, POP OS, or Linux Mint (similar versions, different, closer to windows looking buttons and menus and stuff)

 

I'm recommending Ubuntu simply because I think it is one of the easiest distributions to get into when you're new, and one of the more popular ones too, so there's a lot of info and tips to find if something isn't working.

 

 

[Uthan The Perverse]

4 hours ago, krzp said:

Go to ubuntu.com, download the desktop version, flash it on a usb stick and load from it (there are tutorials on how to do that on their website, and all over YouTube)

 

And then just click around and see if you like it - and if you don't, plug out the usb stick and reboot back to your regular system.

 

If you find it a little too Mac-looking for your tastes, you might try Kubuntu, POP OS, or Linux Mint (similar versions, different, closer to windows looking buttons and menus and stuff)

 

I'm recommending Ubuntu simply because I think it is one of the easiest distributions to get into when you're new, and one of the more popular ones too, so there's a lot of info and tips to find if something isn't working.

 

 

Even better: Go to https://distrotest.net/ and try out various distros online. Perhaps flash a Live USB after this.

[vaultbait]

Wow, this is really encouraging, thanks for starting the discussion!

 

My first career was as a Unix/Linux sysadmin and so Linux distributions have been my go-to operating systems for personal use since the mid-1990s (no joke). About 5-6 years ago I decided I wanted to play Fallout 4 on something other than a console so I could try out the emerging mods for it (specifically the naughty-sexy sort published here on LL because I'm a hopeless pervert). I specced out a blazing-fast gaming rig and installed a licensed copy of Windows 10. That was my first Windows machine in decades. I wanted to use Debian instead, but... circa 2017 there was just no way to make FO4 work anywhere close to playable.

 

I've heard rumblings and seen articles in the past few years that things have improved. In particular, it seems like Valve's investment in making their Linux-based Steam Deck viable for playing commercial computer games has fueled a lot of that. I suppose the time has come for me to try again, but the things I would find most helpful are:

1. Recommendations for what hardware has the best current Linux support/drivers for Fallout 4's game engine needs, bonus points for mainline Linux kernel drivers since third-party/out-of-tree proprietary drivers are always a pain in the ass
2. Tips from people who have gotten things working reliably, especially lower-level stuff like F4SE and its many plugins, ENB, Creation Kit (it would suck to still have to do all my mod development in a Windows VM)
3. Testimonials: what works well? what's still broken? what foot cannons should we make sure to avoid?

Also I'll leave links to a few related articles I'd saved but not gotten around to digging into yet (some may be outdated now... in fact probably are! but still could serve as a good starting point):

• Modding Fallout 4 on Ubuntu 20.04 with Mod Organizer 2
• Steam Deck - A Pleb's Guide to Modding Fallout 4 on Valve's New Platform
• Vim Plugin for the Papyrus scripting language (relevant for those of us who make mods)
• Pip-Boy Companion App - Tools and Tutorial for Mobile and PC (sort of topical since Android is a Linux fork)

[vaultbait]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:54 AM, DocClox said:

There is a bit of a learning curve, but it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Time was, you needed to memorize a ton of command line programs to do anything. These days, an installer will set everything up and leave you with a desktop and a menu. Some of the apps are different, but then most of them have windows ports anyway, so if you've used the likes of The GIMP or Libre Office, you'll be right at home.

 

TL;DR: No harder than learning to use a mac, and probably easier than learning Android.

 

Having just not too many years ago gone through the exercise of familiarizing myself with Windows after decades of never touching it, I would argue that learning to use a modern Linux distribution is probably no harder than learning to use Windows. The reason why it seems harder for a lot of people is that they have repressed the memories of what they went through when first learning to use Windows.

[User39042]

6 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Having just not too many years ago gone through the exercise of familiarizing myself with Windows after decades of never touching it, I would argue that learning to use a modern Linux distribution is probably no harder than learning to use Windows. The reason why it seems harder for a lot of people is that they have repressed the memories of what they went through when first learning to use Windows.

 

Well yeah, that and it's command line driven. I use to think command line was uber l33t, but now I know that GUI is superior with keyboard shortcuts unless you are trying to do something extremely specific. But these days, Mint is basically "I can't believe it's not windows", PopOS ships with gaming stuff out-of-the-box, and you get to be part of the cool kid club if you use Artix. There's also the fact that when you want to do advanced stuff, like macroing, you have to script it yourself, which is annoying. Windows makes things like setting up an Intel RAID easier too, two clicks and done on the bios. Literally had to write like 100 lines of bash script to do that in Linux. with gpart, then another 200~300 lines to setup the installer to install on it.  But, like I said, all the reasons that I don't use linux are not reasons a typical person would ever care about.