(BETA) Practical Defeat

[sekuzeku]

i wanted to test this but kept getting CTDs on load, even a new game would work fine until load, then CTD/freeze.

 

i had everything so i started to move into optional requirements, once i installed the extension library the CTDs stopped.

 

i think you need to update the page to make Acheron Extension Library a hard requirement.

[ponzipyramid]

20 hours ago, sekuzeku said:

i wanted to test this but kept getting CTDs on load, even a new game would work fine until load, then CTD/freeze.

 

i had everything so i started to move into optional requirements, once i installed the extension library the CTDs stopped.

 

i think you need to update the page to make Acheron Extension Library a hard requirement.

 

Just tried it without AEL and it works fine. Curious to see if anyone else is running into this?

[mythcraft]

@ponzipyramid Does this mod include npc vs npc defeat, follower vs npc defeat? and are there plans to add them in the future? including zaz or dd integration to npcs?

[MysticDaedra]

Is it safe to update mid-playthrough?

[ForestElf]

Hello. Thanks for the mod. I was trying to find a simple, bugfree defeat mod that works with Simple Slavery and this seems the only candidate. With the previous version i had some weird stuff, like when disabling all robbery options, getting a quest about retreiving my stuff, although nothing was missing, but i installed the newest version and hope this doesn't happen. But, i have an issue, that might be caused by Acheron, i am not sure. NPCs who try to kill "bad NPCs", can't. The "bad NPC" goes to bleedout stance, but never dies. For example, Talsgar the wandering bard was trying to kill a novice mage, who went to bleedout, but i had to go in and kill him. Same for a mod that makes hold guards attack thugs. The thugs go to bleedout stance, but i have to finish them each time. Is there a setting that i must change? Thanks

[BYJE137]

Tested this one out on a thug encounter. Observations:

Thugs start the defeat sequence successfully every time (which is great).

 

Robbery which steals keys don't seem to recognize stolen keys. Those don't get removed in the events.

 

Device equip is not working as expected. Tried setting all device options on 100% and tested multiple events (7). It looks like what happens is that devices are equipped (except for the blindfold, that never triggered once despite the 100% probability) during the event, but then when the event finishes they are unequipped again. Either that or they never got successfully equipped in the first place. I was equipped a box-binder in the first event, then the device was apparently unlocked after the bleedout finished (when the character stands up). The device was in my inventory, but not locked/equipped. Same thing with a hood. That one equipped successfully in 2 out of 7 events, in the others it was in my inventory after the event had finished but it was not locked/equipped and I could just click on the device in the inventory to unequip it (it shows as equipped at first inventory load, but it's not shown on my character outside of the inventory menu). Leg shackles were similar, equipped a couple of times but again 'shown in inventory but not equipped on character' was the most common outcome. 

Definitely something not quite right with the equip sequence - equips are not super reliable and tend to fail, at least for me. (playing on SE, no other defeat mods)

 

 

[ponzipyramid]

On 8/4/2023 at 5:15 AM, mythcraft said:

@ponzipyramid Does this mod include npc vs npc defeat, follower vs npc defeat? and are there plans to add them in the future? including zaz or dd integration to npcs?

 

Just NPC on player/follower defeat and I don't have any immediate plans to add that. Simple Assault lets followers assault NPCs.

 

On 8/4/2023 at 5:51 AM, MysticDaedra said:

Is it safe to update mid-playthrough?

 

It should be.

 

18 hours ago, ForestElf said:

Hello. Thanks for the mod. I was trying to find a simple, bugfree defeat mod that works with Simple Slavery and this seems the only candidate. With the previous version i had some weird stuff, like when disabling all robbery options, getting a quest about retreiving my stuff, although nothing was missing, but i installed the newest version and hope this doesn't happen. But, i have an issue, that might be caused by Acheron, i am not sure. NPCs who try to kill "bad NPCs", can't. The "bad NPC" goes to bleedout stance, but never dies. For example, Talsgar the wandering bard was trying to kill a novice mage, who went to bleedout, but i had to go in and kill him. Same for a mod that makes hold guards attack thugs. The thugs go to bleedout stance, but i have to finish them each time. Is there a setting that i must change? Thanks

 

Yeah this would be a question for Acheron maybe in the YK thread or on Scrab's discord.

 

3 hours ago, BYJE137 said:

Robbery which steals keys don't seem to recognize stolen keys. Those don't get removed in the events.

 

I should've mentioned that keys refers to Devious Devices Keys but I can probably add support for regular keys.

 

3 hours ago, BYJE137 said:

Definitely something not quite right with the equip sequence - equips are not super reliable and tend to fail, at least for me. (playing on SE, no other defeat mods)

 

I was informed over in the DD Development thread that sometimes the OnEquip event that locks the device on the actor fails to fire if you equip multiple devices in quick succession (which is exactly what this release outcome does). I'm guessing I need to increase the delay further to give DD time to do its thing.

Edited August 5, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[palracz]

Hi 

 

there is a interesting issue here when some time PC char defeated, and follower too, when the enemy becomes hostile again they can attack only followers but totally ignore PC char. It's a permanent "ghost effect" doesn't go away , no matter what I do. Maybe when PD defeat-rape sequence is running and an another mod interrupts it.(I think Sexlab Adventures - proxy rape or ABMM cause this problem, but I'm not sure) It seems this two mods can run middle of PD scenes. This is always happen this time. I haven't tried last version yet. Anybody? I uninstalled PD because this 'ghost effect' totally kill the gaming experience. I would like to like PD but this problem makes it very difficult.

If need the load order for the solution - I had new yet - maybe I can remember it again.  

[BYJE137]

18 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

I should've mentioned that keys refers to Devious Devices Keys but I can probably add support for regular keys.

No need to do so on my account. My observation was actually linked to devious keys - I noticed I had some pickpocketed (devious) keys which were not removed, whereas the non-stolen devious keys were. I was assuming that if the goal was to make it harder to get free after being restrained by the mod, then overlooking stolen devious keys the player might walk around with in the key removal segment might not be intended behavior.

 

The mod is very promising - if you manage to get the timing right it'll definitely become a part of my standard load order.

[Alpia]

On 8/5/2023 at 7:55 PM, palracz said:

there is a interesting issue here when some time PC char defeated, and follower too, when the enemy becomes hostile again they can attack only followers but totally ignore PC char. It's a permanent "ghost effect" doesn't go away , no matter what I do. Maybe when PD defeat-rape sequence is running and an another mod interrupts it.(I think Sexlab Adventures - proxy rape or ABMM cause this problem, but I'm not sure) It seems this two mods can run middle of PD scenes. This is always happen this time. I haven't tried last version yet. Anybody? I uninstalled PD because this 'ghost effect' totally kill the gaming experience. I would like to like PD but this problem makes it very difficult.

If need the load order for the solution - I had new yet - maybe I can remember it again.  

Enable debug messages of SL adventures in its MCM then you see if its running while you are in a scene from practical defeat. Personally I use the hotkey you can set in the MCM to disable/enable the proximity rape however I need to, so its not interrupting any scenes from other mods. For example just turn it off after getting defeated or whatever other scene runs that it may interrupt and turn it back on after. Turning it off and on triggers its cooldown, so shouldnt have set that too high if you use it like that.

If you only use SL adventures for the proximity rape feature I'd recommend a look at ScRappies Matchmaker. Its a lot more modular, like for example you can set different vulerabilities in different areas, but lacks some features like the outcomes after the rape. Same thing about having to enable/disable it tho.

[ponzipyramid]

11 minutes ago, Deoxyribonucleic_acid said:

Enable debug messages of SL adventures in its MCM then you see if its running while you are in a scene from practical defeat. Personally I use the hotkey you can set in the MCM to disable/enable the proximity rape however I need to, so its not interrupting any scenes from other mods. For example just turn it off after getting defeated or whatever other scene runs that it may interrupt and turn it back on after. Turning it off and on triggers its cooldown, so shouldnt have set that too high if you use it like that.

If you only use SL adventures for the proximity rape feature I'd recommend a look at ScRappies Matchmaker. Its a lot more modular, like for example you can set different vulerabilities in different areas, but lacks some features like the outcomes after the rape. Same thing about having to enable/disable it tho.

 

Does Adventures respond to DHLP events? If there's a setting for that in the MCM (like there is in Prison Alternative) I can probably emit the event to get it and similar mods to suspend.

[Alpia]

18 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Does Adventures respond to DHLP events? If there's a setting for that in the MCM (like there is in Prison Alternative) I can probably emit the event to get it and similar mods to suspend.

It responds to DHLP events, yes. There is a option in the mcm to ignore them, but by default its set to listen.

[Alpia]

If its not too much work for you could you please add additional categories to the mod for the devices? so we can use the .json and mcm weights without having to throw in something like a harness into one of the other categories were it doesnt really make sense. A seperate option for "Body" at least would be nice to throw in everything that could go on the torso. Ideally it would be nice to have a category for each slot. A option in between would be categories to group them by body region similar to slavetats
"Blindfold" for hoods and blindfolds so basically eyes
"Gag" which is mouth
Neck, for collar and harness as they use the same slot if I remember right
Upper body, for the bra and corsett
"anal-plug" being basically lower body for belts and plugs
"arms"
"legs"
misc for whatever someone might want to add that isnt part of the other categories like dresses and suits
That would "only" be 3-4 more categories compared to seperating them all by slot.

For now I'll try to combine hoods and blindfolds together and use the freed category to throw in everything that would go on the chest and then maybe combine plug and belts.

[sekuzeku]

i'd switch to this from Defeat with creature support since YK doesn't do followers.

 

one thing either way, i use EFF and activating followers brings up the EFF wheel. it would be nice if we could change the hotkey to rescue etc.

[palracz]

19 hours ago, Deoxyribonucleic_acid said:

Enable debug messages of SL adventures in its MCM then you see if its running while you are in a scene from practical defeat. Personally I use the hotkey you can set in the MCM to disable/enable the proximity rape however I need to, so its not interrupting any scenes from other mods. For example just turn it off after getting defeated or whatever other scene runs that it may interrupt and turn it back on after. Turning it off and on triggers its cooldown, so shouldnt have set that too high if you use it like that.

If you only use SL adventures for the proximity rape feature I'd recommend a look at ScRappies Matchmaker. Its a lot more modular, like for example you can set different vulerabilities in different areas, but lacks some features like the outcomes after the rape. Same thing about having to enable/disable it tho.

Thx I'll try it 

[DestroyerNel]

This is super nice. I have always been dreaming of this but no defeat mods have this function so far. As for respawn, mods such as Respawn - Death Overhaul may also be fine. It just teleport the player back to temple at the cost of losing exp. However, it seems to prevent triggering defeat event when I'm using SL Defeat.

[Alpia]

I've ran into a bug or limitation when modifiying the devices.json to add more devices.
Adding more then 46 items to the list causes the game to crash upon trying to load a savegame, so the game crashes upon adding the 47th item to the list.
I've tried different items and different categories with the same result.

Adding a empty line doesnt cause the problem.
Adding a item with a wrong ID doesnt cause the problem
Adding a item already on the list beyond 46 items causes a crash just like any other item.
so to me as said seems like its related to the actual number of items on the list.

Dont know if the netscriptframework logs are of any use to you, but I've attached some.

Crash_2023_8_10_19-39-47.txt Crash_2023_8_10_20-7-42.txt

[ponzipyramid]

1 hour ago, Deoxyribonucleic_acid said:

I've ran into a bug or limitation when modifiying the devices.json to add more devices.
Adding more then 46 items to the list causes the game to crash upon trying to load a savegame, so the game crashes upon adding the 47th item to the list.
I've tried different items and different categories with the same result.

Adding a empty line doesnt cause the problem.
Adding a item with a wrong ID doesnt cause the problem
Adding a item already on the list beyond 46 items causes a crash just like any other item.
so to me as said seems like its related to the actual number of items on the list.

Dont know if the netscriptframework logs are of any use to you, but I've attached some.

Crash_2023_8_10_19-39-47.txt 139.28 kB · 0 downloads Crash_2023_8_10_20-7-42.txt 135.78 kB · 0 downloads

 

Almost certainly the VM being overloaded and dumping. I'll stagger the loading to address this.

[Zaflis]

I'm not seeing "player essential" feature in this mod or Acheron. When i get defeated by falmer i just get killed and load last save.

Skyrim SE 1.5.97

 

Also i wouldn't consider "Devious Devices" a release event. It's a bonus that should apply to all the release outcomes.

 

Maybe that will make this mod work:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/47426

(SM Essential Player SE)

Edited August 13, 2023 by Zaflis

[ponzipyramid]

21 hours ago, Zaflis said:

I'm not seeing "player essential" feature in this mod or Acheron. When i get defeated by falmer i just get killed and load last save.

 

Acheron relies on a new death handling system that doesn't require player essential. If you're not getting defeated I'd ensure you have the right DLL and killmoves are disabled.

 

21 hours ago, Zaflis said:

Also i wouldn't consider "Devious Devices" a release event. It's a bonus that should apply to all the release outcomes.

 

In theory yes but in practice this creates conflicts. SS++ removes devices, SD+ wants to equip its own, amputation and DD's doesn't make sense, and so on. I'll consider adding it to the left for dead outcome.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, ponzipyramid said:

Acheron relies on a new death handling system that doesn't require player essential. If you're not getting defeated I'd ensure you have the right DLL and killmoves are disabled.

The last thing i was getting hit by was the lightning sparks spell, npc's keep channeling it while running and since it's also draining all mana while dealing damage it's griefing player really ? It happened twice since it was difficult to overcome that bunch of falmers...

[inviz.t]

This is slightly off topic for the thread, but is anyone else on AE/SE experiencing a bug with SL Survivals dismemberment causing constant equip and unequips of items that are put onto the lost limbs? Would love to use the Amputation features in this mod paired with Survivals restrictions, but I can't get it working for whatever reason

 

Edit: Rephrased

Edited August 15, 2023 by inviz.t

[cheeze_whiz]

Hello! 

 

I have two issues, otherwise, this is precisely what I have been looking for. 

 

First is a QoL thing: In a future version, the ability to adjust the speed and/or the location of the QTE widgets would be fantastic. I am visually impaired and it's hard to find them and when I do, I am usually too late. 

 

The second is a bug created when my aggressor dies before the sex event starts, in my case massive lingering poison damage (Requiem/3Tweaks Serpent Sign + Mephala). A brief moment after they die, I am returned control of my character and everything seems fine. But... No one will attack me. Humanoids act like someone is in stealth and attacking them and animals will just follow me around. 

Sometimes, this will correct itself upon encountering new enemies. Sometimes it requires a restart. Sometimes I have to go back to an earlier save.

 

[ponzipyramid]

14 hours ago, cheeze_whiz said:

First is a QoL thing: In a future version, the ability to adjust the speed and/or the location of the QTE widgets would be fantastic. I am visually impaired and it's hard to find them and when I do, I am usually too late. 

 

I think the extension library lets you do this by adjusting a configuration file in the SKSE folder. This page explains the options.

 

14 hours ago, cheeze_whiz said:

The second is a bug created when my aggressor dies before the sex event starts, in my case massive lingering poison damage (Requiem/3Tweaks Serpent Sign + Mephala). A brief moment after they die, I am returned control of my character and everything seems fine. But... No one will attack me. Humanoids act like someone is in stealth and attacking them and animals will just follow me around. 

Sometimes, this will correct itself upon encountering new enemies. Sometimes it requires a restart. Sometimes I have to go back to an earlier save.

 

Do you have an Acheron.log from when this happened? I can narrow down if PD kicked in or not.

Edited August 17, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[BeefyJackal]

I'm having an issue where Acheron Extension Library requires a different version of Acheron than this. So now I need to have Acheron.esl, Acheron.esp both in my load order for PD and the Extension Library to not show an error. I also have 2 Acherons in my MCM menu, both are identical. What should I do?

This mod requires Acheron.esl and Extension Library require Acheron.esp.