(BETA) Practical Defeat

[iSc00t]

17 hours ago, xMrZwiggyx said:

 

Can you do a quick comparison on your opinion of Sexlab Defeat vs Practical Defeat? I have SL Defeat and its been fine but just wanted to know others opinions on this mod.. It looks pretty good but I'm cleaning out my mods in MO2 for a fresh adventure with more mods. Also, does it work or somewhat work fine with creatures ?

This mod has the best robbing mechanic. When you are defeated you go into bleed out they run over to you and tie you up (and follower if you have one). Have a little dialog, then steal your stuff in real time and strip you. It’s a thing that other defeat mods have, but this one is just smooth and in real time with no fade to black. They will then activate sexlab after the robbery if you want it to. 
 

what I like is that paired with Acheron you can set the chance for the defeat mod to trigger, meaning you can set it so you die normally most of the time and have a small chance of the defeat mod triggering. Otherwise you can have it go 100% of the time. 
 

Very flexible and with lots of variables to set things up how you like it. ??

[xone567]

This Mod Can be turn esl plugin.by using Esl Everythings Program.but slhh,devious followers,slso mods failed.here Esl everythings log files

ESLifyEverything_Log.txt

Edited September 13, 2023 by xone567

[xMrZwiggyx]

On 9/9/2023 at 2:25 PM, ponzipyramid said:

 

Creature defeat is planned but not part of the mod at present.

 

 

Sounds good, Looking forward into seeing it being added!

 

On 9/9/2023 at 6:49 PM, iSc00t said:

This mod has the best robbing mechanic. When you are defeated you go into bleed out they run over to you and tie you up (and follower if you have one). Have a little dialog, then steal your stuff in real time and strip you. It’s a thing that other defeat mods have, but this one is just smooth and in real time with no fade to black. They will then activate sexlab after the robbery if you want it to. 
 

what I like is that paired with Acheron you can set the chance for the defeat mod to trigger, meaning you can set it so you die normally most of the time and have a small chance of the defeat mod triggering. Otherwise you can have it go 100% of the time. 
 

Very flexible and with lots of variables to set things up how you like it. ??

 

Nice, sounds cool! I kinda never was a fan of the robbery mods at first but If I can set its chances to low or rare depending on what special loot or tons of gold I'm carrying, it could trigger a robbery scene, but thanks for the info, Imma definitely have to try it out now!

 

One last thing... How exactly do I install Acheron on Mod Organizer 2 since it only gives me an .dll file. 

*Nevermind, I guess l figured it out by going into the SKSE folder in the directory of MO2 and replaced the current .dll file with the update file that was posted. Confusing instructions but I guess I did it...

 

and Can I uninstall / install this mod and its requirements on my current save game safely? or will it recommend requiring a fresh new game? 

*Also.. On the link to download Acheron and it updated .dll file on Patreon, They said that a new game is a recommended must.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by xMrZwiggyx
-Updated

[nightmare2004]

Hi I wanted to give this mod a try but cannot seem to get it working. To my knowledge I should have everything installed, Practical Defeat is not being over written by anything (it is overwriting ZAZ animations for me). Whenever I am defeated the enemies, in this case Bandits, just ignore my presense until I get back up again. I also cannot find an MCM menu for Practical Defeat. I have made a brand new save file to test again just now and this also has not worked.

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here but I'm not sure what, I shouldn't have any defeat mods installed so nothing should be conflicting with Practical Defeat. I thought I didn't have Acheron's correct DLL but even replacing it with the 1.3.1.2 DLL 1.6 file (I installed the 1.3.1 1.6.640 file) didn't work either, though this did make a change where I just stay in bleedout but never get back up.

 

I'd offer a papyrus log and load order but I've never been able to get it to work, sorry

[ponzipyramid]

On 9/11/2023 at 11:07 PM, nightmare2004 said:

Hi I wanted to give this mod a try but cannot seem to get it working. To my knowledge I should have everything installed, Practical Defeat is not being over written by anything (it is overwriting ZAZ animations for me). Whenever I am defeated the enemies, in this case Bandits, just ignore my presense until I get back up again. I also cannot find an MCM menu for Practical Defeat. I have made a brand new save file to test again just now and this also has not worked.

Obviously I'm doing something wrong here but I'm not sure what, I shouldn't have any defeat mods installed so nothing should be conflicting with Practical Defeat. I thought I didn't have Acheron's correct DLL but even replacing it with the 1.3.1.2 DLL 1.6 file (I installed the 1.3.1 1.6.640 file) didn't work either, though this did make a change where I just stay in bleedout but never get back up.

 

I'd offer a papyrus log and load order but I've never been able to get it to work, sorry

 

An SKSE log should be generated at Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE/Acheron.log. That will tell me if PD or Acheron is running when it should.

[nightmare2004]

15 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

An SKSE log should be generated at Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE/Acheron.log. That will tell me if PD or Acheron is running when it should.

Thank you! I knew it must have been generating somewhere! Here you go.

Acheron.log

[BestTofuNA]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but is there a method to turn off stripping/removing clothes? Even though I turn off robbery they still remove outfits but I would prefer it if it didn't. 

[Kristus Kringle]

Loving how this mod is working. Love that they tie up the victim like the old Submit mod. But like Submit, sometimes after a rape event when my pc is tied the game just gets stuck with the bandits standing around, the pc laying naked and tied on the ground. Tried everything but I had to reload a save. 

[ponzipyramid]

On 9/13/2023 at 9:57 PM, nightmare2004 said:

Thank you! I knew it must have been generating somewhere! Here you go.

Acheron.log 1.25 kB · 1 download

 

So it looks like Acheron's DLL is functional and its registering PD but not starting it. Were you defeated when this log was generated? Was this attempt on a new game?

 

On 9/14/2023 at 6:28 AM, BestTofuNA said:

Sorry if this is a dumb question but is there a method to turn off stripping/removing clothes? Even though I turn off robbery they still remove outfits but I would prefer it if it didn't. 

 

That's not an option yet but I can add it in the next version.

 

4 hours ago, Duncan Idaho said:

Loving how this mod is working. Love that they tie up the victim like the old Submit mod. But like Submit, sometimes after a rape event when my pc is tied the game just gets stuck with the bandits standing around, the pc laying naked and tied on the ground. Tried everything but I had to reload a save. 

 

Not sure how long you've been using PD but is this recent behaviour or a long standing issue? I did introduce some changes to the event loop to do the reactivity stuff. Can you post your Papyrus log?

Edited September 16, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[nightmare2004]

On 9/16/2023 at 5:23 AM, ponzipyramid said:

 

So it looks like Acheron's DLL is functional and its registering PD but not starting it. Were you defeated when this log was generated? Was this attempt on a new game?

 

 

Yes I was defeated when the log was generated... at least I should have been. It generates a new one (overwrites the old one) every time right? I did find this log after the most recent attempt at getting this to work. If my memory is correct it should have been on a new game as well.

I just finished debugging a problem I had with a different mod (I uninstalled all my sexlab mods while testing that) so now I'm going to be testing Acheron and Practical defeat only (with their prereqs) and see if it works, if so then something else is fucking it up. It will be on a new save, I'll let you know how that goes.

 

EDIT: I have it working now. Either another mod was doing something weird with it or it just needed more time to load the mcm. I'll post more when I figure out which it is. Sorry about that.

Edited September 17, 2023 by nightmare2004

[JackChurch187]

do you plan to add creature support?

[nightmare2004]

I discovered the problem, I believe it was a mod conflict with Sexlab Approach Redux by FactoryClose. After slowly adding back all of my sex mods I was able to see Practical Defeat in the mcm (and verified it worked) every time up until I tried to install 3 mods, those being Approach mentioned earlier, Drunk Redux and Dangerous Night. When attempting to load these three mods on a save that had Practical Defeat installed it led to a ctd. So I made two new saves, one with those three mods included in the mod list and one where they weren't.

On the former, it would not CTD but it also would not load Practical Defeat (at least it didn't in the time I waited, about 5 minutes)

On the latter, it would not CTD and it would load Practical Defeat immedietly.

On the latter, I installed the 3 mods and it CTD. Removed Approach first and it did not CTD.

 

I don't know why approach would be causing this conflict, and for all I know it could be something else in addition to Approach and Practical Defeat but I don't know how to check. Is anyone else having these issues? If not then it might just be my load order that's the issue somewhere. I hope this can help in any way, especially if anyone coming in from google finds this.

Edited September 21, 2023 by nightmare2004

[UsernameTaken666]

On 9/19/2023 at 1:40 AM, JackChurch187 said:

do you plan to add creature support?

 

On 9/9/2023 at 1:25 PM, ponzipyramid said:

 

Creature defeat is planned but not part of the mod at present.

 

 

That note is mostly there for posterity. Certain PapyrusUtil functions are missing from the 1.5.97 release (since the team doesn't backport new functions). I reimplemented these functions in Papyrus and the mod will switch over based on your game version so you shouldn't see any errors. While I did optimize my implementation, it's naturally slower than the C++ equivalent. But if you don't notice any slowness, I guess they're good enough :).

 

[Kristus Kringle]

This could use a controller patch. It still works because the mouse comes up when you click on a defeated but might be worth making it compat with controllers if not too difficult. 

[Someone92]

What's the source and name of the FFM animation in the 9th picture?

[Zarh246]

great mod, even with controller it kind of works. so long as the rng doesnt stick you with three mouse clicks in a row you cna break out easily. That said i do have a few complaints/suggestions. some are a matter of personal taste. btw i am by no means a modder so some of these implementations may prove impossible.

 

1. longer bound on the ground struggling animation time. also as a suggestion Use the same break away from assaulter "mini game" to escape your bonds in between "sessions" as it were.

2. i use the babodialouge mod, and im tinkering with it as of now, but i am not sure this is 100% compatible with it, to be fair, it is like 70 percentish compatible. if you surrender through dialouge your're fine. scene plays out as usual, but if a fight is involved your defeat event takes precedent.  a shame because you mod works extremely well with it, or would if the two could be more friendly with another. again still tinkering. it may be a simple load order that may let the two play better.

3. matter of personal taste, don't fade out to ditch and go to rescue or what have you so soon. again if possible implement a timed escape event or X happens. maybe they come back for round 2, maybe a passing slaver finds you, maybe a good Samaritan finds you etc, but only if you fail to escape your bonds in an indicated amount of time, too exhausted form the raping, etc, then fade to black for X event.

 

that's about it though, other than that it's great, and far more controller friendly than Sexlab defeat. in my experience at least. 

 

[ponzipyramid]

5 hours ago, Zarh246 said:

1. longer bound on the ground struggling animation time. also as a suggestion Use the same break away from assaulter "mini game" to escape your bonds in between "sessions" as it were.

 

AEL lets you set the timers on the QTE using config files.

 

5 hours ago, Zarh246 said:

2. i use the babodialouge mod, and im tinkering with it as of now, but i am not sure this is 100% compatible with it, to be fair, it is like 70 percentish compatible. if you surrender through dialouge your're fine. scene plays out as usual, but if a fight is involved your defeat event takes precedent.  a shame because you mod works extremely well with it, or would if the two could be more friendly with another. again still tinkering. it may be a simple load order that may let the two play better.

 

This isn't something I can handle through PD or Scrab should handle within Acheron. You might want to suggest to factoryclose that BD temporarily disables Acheron's damage handling when it wants to handle defeat.

 

5 hours ago, Zarh246 said:

3. matter of personal taste, don't fade out to ditch and go to rescue or what have you so soon. again if possible implement a timed escape event or X happens. maybe they come back for round 2, maybe a passing slaver finds you, maybe a good Samaritan finds you etc, but only if you fail to escape your bonds in an indicated amount of time, too exhausted form the raping, etc, then fade to black for X event.

 

This could be a separate outcome although I generally shy away from longer running sequences like this since it increases the chances for something going wrong. Releases like SS++ and SD+ are intended to provide this sort of experience and there are some early plans for a radiant captivity system. I do plan on allowing struggle/escape/negotiation between rounds to make the defeat process more interactive.

[Zarh246]

5 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

AEL lets you set the timers on the QTE using config files.

 

 

This isn't something I can handle through PD or Scrab should handle within Acheron. You might want to suggest to factoryclose that BD temporarily disables Acheron's damage handling when it wants to handle defeat.

 

 

This could be a separate outcome although I generally shy away from longer running sequences like this since it increases the chances for something going wrong. Releases like SS++ and SD+ are intended to provide this sort of experience and there are some early plans for a radiant captivity system. I do plan on allowing struggle/escape/negotiation between rounds to make the defeat process more interactive.

for the second point, I actually kind of found out that it does work with babo. you just have to make sure you are "defeated" by the designated NPC  from babo for it's scene to play out for it to work. 

 

as for the third, completely understandable. i have many mods that i am still working an an optimum load order, and since many are from loverslab loot is no help at all. 

 

and finally for the first, i'll have to check that out.

 

keep up the good work!

[Turtlin]

Whenever I am defeated using the mod, I get an error from PD saying "failed to add actor to the thread." After being defeated, the struggle minigame plays as normal, my items are taken from me, the quest for being robbed begins, and then nothing happens and the bandit who attacked me just walks away and starts clapping, and I will be able to move even as I'm hogtied, and attacking the bandit does nothing. They just stand there idly.

 

I have read as much as I can from this forum for similar situations, I've tried reinstalling this mod and it's requirements to the newest version of each, checking all incompatibilities. PD is at the top of my modlist, so it should never be overridden, and neither should any of PD's requirements. I tried disabling any and all mods that could slightly change PD, and nothing changes. I even started a whole new playthrough, and there's no change no matter what NPC defeats me or where it is.

 

Acheron.logStrangely enough, the Acheron log seems to show that the bandit is also being defeated and PD might be trying to do the rescue situation? I'm not sure if that's what I'm reading, or if its intentional or not.

 

I really love this mod and think that it's far above any other mods like it in terms of gameplay and immersion, but I can't say I enjoy it not working for me for whatever reason. Also let me know if you need the papyrus logs or something else, because I would really love to help make this bugfixing any easier.

[ponzipyramid]

16 minutes ago, Turtlin said:

Whenever I am defeated using the mod, I get an error from PD saying "failed to add actor to the thread." After being defeated, the struggle minigame plays as normal, my items are taken from me, the quest for being robbed begins, and then nothing happens and the bandit who attacked me just walks away and starts clapping, and I will be able to move even as I'm hogtied, and attacking the bandit does nothing. They just stand there idly.

 

I have read as much as I can from this forum for similar situations, I've tried reinstalling this mod and it's requirements to the newest version of each, checking all incompatibilities. PD is at the top of my modlist, so it should never be overridden, and neither should any of PD's requirements. I tried disabling any and all mods that could slightly change PD, and nothing changes. I even started a whole new playthrough, and there's no change no matter what NPC defeats me or where it is.

 

Acheron.logStrangely enough, the Acheron log seems to show that the bandit is also being defeated and PD might be trying to do the rescue situation? I'm not sure if that's what I'm reading, or if its intentional or not.

 

I really love this mod and think that it's far above any other mods like it in terms of gameplay and immersion, but I can't say I enjoy it not working for me for whatever reason. Also let me know if you need the papyrus logs or something else, because I would really love to help make this bugfixing any easier.

 

Yep, a Papyrus log would be useful since it looks like Acheron is starting PD but PD isn't starting the event loop. If you want to test a bit more, can you try v0.2.6 instead of v0.3.0?

 

That rescue message is unrelated to PD's release outcome, it's a function Acheron provides that lets you recover downed actors. I use it to make sure any enemies you may have put in bleedout prior to being defeated can recover.

[Turtlin]

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Yep, a Papyrus log would be useful since it looks like Acheron is starting PD but PD isn't starting the event loop. If you want to test a bit more, can you try v0.2.6 instead of v0.3.0?

 

That rescue message is unrelated to PD's release outcome, it's a function Acheron provides that lets you recover downed actors. I use it to make sure any enemies you may have put in bleedout prior to being defeated can recover.

NEVERMIND the first post, I got the papyrus log. Forgot to edit the ini files in MO2 and did it manually...

It definitely looks like a lot of errors are happening all throughout, which makes me think I have something else installed incorrectly and it is what's fucking up PD so much.

 

As for doing v0.2.6, the problem was literally identical to 0.3.0.

Papyrus.0.log

[ponzipyramid]

1 hour ago, Turtlin said:

NEVERMIND the first post, I got the papyrus log. Forgot to edit the ini files in MO2 and did it manually...

It definitely looks like a lot of errors are happening all throughout, which makes me think I have something else installed incorrectly and it is what's fucking up PD so much.

 

As for doing v0.2.6, the problem was literally identical to 0.3.0.

Papyrus.0.log 56.12 kB · 0 downloads

 

I can add some more resiliency to event start failure but it looks like the primary issue is your SL installation. Have you tried testing without P+?

Edited September 25, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[Turtlin]

18 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

I can add some more resiliency to event start failure but it looks like the primary issue is your SL installation. Have you tried testing without P+?

It might have been overkill, but I removed P+, reinstalled SL, and made a new game, and the mod functioned almost as normal, though after I was hogtied and the quest started, I was able to move slide around for a couple seconds and then the animation started, which might be an entirely different issue.

 

I reinstalled p+ after i confirmed it worked, and for some reason the sex scenes are just entirely skipped. The quest for being robbed starts, and then I'm either left for dead or dumped nearby.

 

Papyrus.1.logThis is the log of PD working fine, without P+

Papyrus.0.logThis is the one with P+ installed, and without PD working.

[ponzipyramid]

53 minutes ago, Turtlin said:

It might have been overkill, but I removed P+, reinstalled SL, and made a new game, and the mod functioned almost as normal, though after I was hogtied and the quest started, I was able to move slide around for a couple seconds and then the animation started, which might be an entirely different issue.

 

I reinstalled p+ after i confirmed it worked, and for some reason the sex scenes are just entirely skipped. The quest for being robbed starts, and then I'm either left for dead or dumped nearby.

 

Papyrus.1.logThis is the log of PD working fine, without P+

Papyrus.0.logThis is the one with P+ installed, and without PD working.

 

Right now there aren't strong movement restrictions on the player during defeat to let you manually recover from a fight if PD bugs out. I'll tighten that up right before we exit beta.

 

With P+, did you let it install itself or did you manually install it using the option in the MCM? I've seen issues where the default animations don't properly register if you let it install itself. If PD can't fetch the necessary animations ahead of time it will skip the events and go directly to the release outcome.

Edited September 25, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[Turtlin]

2 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Right now there aren't strong movement restrictions on the player during defeat to let you manually recover from a fight if PD bugs out. I'll tighten that up right before we exit beta.

 

With P+, did you let it install itself or did you manually install it using the option in the MCM? I've seen issues where the default animations don't properly register if you let it install itself. If PD can't fetch the necessary animations ahead of time it will skip the events and go directly to the release outcome.

P+ installed itself, and it seems like it didn't install the default animations, so I can't say for sure that's the problem. However, when I was having the problem before removing p+ and getting it to work, I had installed it manually along with the default animations and obviously the same problems happened, so I don't know if that's the issue.

 

Without p+ though, I can say that the sliding around after being hogtied issue only happened once, and now the mod works perfectly, which is awesome.