(BETA) Practical Defeat

[RileyRileyRiley]

2 hours ago, kaydens1234 said:

Any plan adding some kind of debuff post assault?

 

I recommend you look into Apropos2 and Simple Wear & Tear for this. Apropos2 handles debuffs and SW&T handles morph/overlay changes.

[Suke23]

20 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Looking at the script log, it looks like defeat was triggered twice with the first release event being SD and the second being a regular release. Did these stall or work okay?

 

For robbery, have you changed the settings at all? Items being unequipped but not stolen might be intended behavior if the items in question are below the gold threshold or the chance check didn't succeed (Rob armor chance in the MCM).

 

It looks like the robbery quest is being started successfully both times i.e. PD: (Info) Starting robbery quest = TRUE but nothing's showing up in your quest log?

No, no quest shows up at all unfortunately. I also jumped back in to test again adjusting the robbery values and still having the same issue where stuff is unequipped while only the gold is stolen. On release I'm still stuck and can't move, even if I force move the enemies don't recognize the player so I assume it's still locked in a essential/escape mode so the enemy doesn't hurt the player. The threshold is already set to 0 for the armor and weapons by the way I didn't adjust those also the weapon and armor chance is 100%

Additionally the quests all work fine outside of the robbery event and release event not triggering correctly for me. I have gotten it to work in the past one the first test of it but after that it never triggered again.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Suke23

[ponzipyramid]

7 minutes ago, Suke23 said:

No, no quest shows up at all unfortunately. I also jumped back in to test again adjusting the robbery values and still having the same issue where stuff is unequipped while only the gold is stolen. On release I'm still stuck and can't move, even if I force move the enemies don't recognize the player so I assume it's still locked in a essential/escape mode so the enemy doesn't hurt the player. The threshold is already set to 0 for the armor and weapons by the way I didn't adjust those also the weapon and armor chance is 100%

 

Fixed the release quest bug. I'll post a preview build with some additional logging to help diagnose the other problems shortly.

Edited July 11, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[ponzipyramid]

11 minutes ago, Suke23 said:

No, no quest shows up at all unfortunately. I also jumped back in to test again adjusting the robbery values and still having the same issue where stuff is unequipped while only the gold is stolen. On release I'm still stuck and can't move, even if I force move the enemies don't recognize the player so I assume it's still locked in a essential/escape mode so the enemy doesn't hurt the player. The threshold is already set to 0 for the armor and weapons by the way I didn't adjust those also the weapon and armor chance is 100%

Additionally the quests all work fine outside of the robbery event and release event not triggering correctly for me. I have gotten it to work in the past one the first test of it but after that it never triggered again.

 

Did the robbery quest start up at least once?

[Suke23]

7 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Did the robbery quest start up at least once?

That's great about the release bug fix. Also the robbery quest started a few times early on probably twice or so

[ponzipyramid]

Here's a preview with some potential fixes:

Practical Defeat v0.2.4 PREVIEW.7z

[ponzipyramid]

v0.2.4 is officially up with a few enhancements not available in the preview. One thing worth mentioning is the addition of animation pre-fetching which further shortens the startup time for Sexlab scenes and gets things pretty close to YK. YMMV depending on what mods you're running like SLAS, P+, SLGP, etc.

 

I've temporarily removed the dialogue before 2P scenes in favor of a more robust dialogue system in the next major update.

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[ponzipyramid]

First add-on defeat event is up on my Patreon. This let me test external registration which seems to work. If anyone's interested in making new events, you should be able to. Feel free to post or message me if you have any questions.

 

I'll keep the self-promotion in this thread to a minimum from here on out

 

Previews:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by ponzipyramid
Added previews

[RileyRileyRiley]

Are creatures still unsupported? Have things configured correctly (I think) and creatures just sorta wander off once you're downed. Also, when I've gotten the "rescued" aftermath thus far it still doesn't seem to do anything; just a black screen with the message box, but no location change or anything. Unsure if these things were tweaked in the latest or if they still haven't been touched on.

[sasfa]

1 hour ago, VulpineScream said:

Are creatures still unsupported? Have things configured correctly (I think) and creatures just sorta wander off once you're downed. Also, when I've gotten the "rescued" aftermath thus far it still doesn't seem to do anything; just a black screen with the message box, but no location change or anything. Unsure if these things were tweaked in the latest or if they still haven't been touched on.

personnaly i use this mod with YK it work pretty well just put the YK event probability to 1 like this acheron with check outcome possible and will use pratical defeat since the probability should be 100 to 1 but if the enemy is a creature since practical defeat use the condition system of acheron it will use the only other outcome possible which is YK and it work pretty well 

sorry for bad english

[ponzipyramid]

2 hours ago, VulpineScream said:

Are creatures still unsupported? Have things configured correctly (I think) and creatures just sorta wander off once you're downed.

 

Can you post your Acheron log? It should be in Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE/Acheron.log. PD shouldn't be started at all when you're defeated by creatures. I did get a request recently to add creature support but forward to human events by justifying it with a "you were found by a group of bandits and....". I'm reluctant to spend a bunch of time working on actual creature defeat given there's not much I can do beyond what YK already offers. Human intelligence and opposable thumbs gives me far more options for events during and after defeat compared to a wolf.

 

2 hours ago, VulpineScream said:

Also, when I've gotten the "rescued" aftermath thus far it still doesn't seem to do anything; just a black screen with the message box, but no location change or anything. Unsure if these things were tweaked in the latest or if they still haven't been touched on.

 

Hmm, they should be fixed. A couple questions: can you post your script log? Has "rescued" ever started successfully for you? Are the other outcomes failing at all?

 

This might be an issue with the reset process similar to release.

Edited July 16, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[altsforeveryone]

So I'm having problems trying to get this mod working. Testing with some freshly spawned NPC's, My character goes down, the struggle game plays, I lose it, my character goes down and is hogtied on the floor. Nearby enemies come to gather around and clap at me, then... nothing happens. Sometimes I get the prompt for the Robbery having started, sometimes I don't, but in either case no animations play, no assault occurs, and no consequences result. In my most recent attempt, I spawned about five bandit chiefs, let them defeat me, then went off to go do the dishes that night. Still no event when I'd finished and come back. 

 

I've attached my most recent papyrus logs (I think) and the load order from mod organizer.  

Papyrus.0.log loadorder.txt

[krzp]

3 hours ago, altsforeveryone said:

I've attached my most recent papyrus logs

What version of MFG Fix are you using?

 

There's 36 thousand of lines in your logs in 20 minutes, and about 35 thousand of them are your papyrus stack dumping when your conditional expression mod tries to do anything. ?

ERROR: Static function SetPhoneme not found on object mfgconsole. Aborting call and returning None
 

This is not normal, it's overloading your engine.

[Eowe_]

What version of skyrim is this running on? because i get defeated but nothing else happens i just get back up.

[rydin]

3 hours ago, Eowe_ said:

What version of skyrim is this running on? because i get defeated but nothing else happens i just get back up.

 

This mod supports SE/AE set up as per the installation page (this mod has no DLL requirement so it's not version dependent, but it's requirements like Acheron is). If you are having trouble getting something to run, I suggest you check you have the correct requirements (listed as hard requirements on PD's installation page) and post your papyrus log and lord order (similar to the above two posts) along with what you are trying to do so we can take a look. Thanks!

[RileyRileyRiley]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:38 AM, sasfa said:

personnaly i use this mod with YK it work pretty well just put the YK event probability to 1 like this acheron with check outcome possible and will use pratical defeat since the probability should be 100 to 1 but if the enemy is a creature since practical defeat use the condition system of acheron it will use the only other outcome possible which is YK and it work pretty well 

sorry for bad english

 

This makes sense, but thus far creatures still just lose interest and wander off. I know a lot of the creatures I'm running into have been Immersive Creature spawns, but yeah, I dunno.

 

 

On 7/16/2023 at 8:17 AM, ponzipyramid said:

Can you post your Acheron log? It should be in Documents/My Games/Skyrim Special Edition/SKSE/Acheron.log. PD shouldn't be started at all when you're defeated by creatures. I did get a request recently to add creature support but forward to human events by justifying it with a "you were found by a group of bandits and....". I'm reluctant to spend a bunch of time working on actual creature defeat given there's not much I can do beyond what YK already offers. Human intelligence and opposable thumbs gives me far more options for events during and after defeat compared to a wolf.

 

Hmm, they should be fixed. A couple questions: can you post your script log? Has "rescued" ever started successfully for you? Are the other outcomes failing at all?

 

This might be an issue with the reset process similar to release.

 

This is what comes up in console during the "rescued" aftermath, and the game just reloads to the most recent save. Here's the log as well.

 

Acheron.log

Doesn't really seem to say much? It does mention the last creature to defeat me, at least, which it reads as "unrecognized", so I suppose all Immersive Creatures aren't recognized or functional with YK. That really would be nice though, lmao. Playing with vanilla creature support only is always rough; it's such a bleak selection.

I also wanted to note that the last two times I got the "you were dumped somewhere nearby" aftermath, "nearby" was like... 30 feet away from where I was defeated, lmao. Dunno if that was just poor luck or intentional, but probably not ideal either way.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by VulpineScream

[Barabaldur]

I mostly play with a follower. When my PC gets knocked down, I wait until enough HP are regenerated and I can move again. No event is triggered.
When the fight ends, my PC usually drops dead shortly after and the last save is loaded.
Not sure what it is, Acheron, Practical Defeat or YK or some other compatibility error? Maybe someone has an idea?

Papyrus.0.log Acheron.log

[RileyRileyRiley]

Woah, suddenly the rescue event worked lmao. Once out of 5 times, huh. This is what popped up in the console when it worked; the enemies and setting was the same as before.

 

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that enemies are assaulting me before aftermaths trigger either. Certainly seems a bit dysfunctional.

 

 

EDIT: They still are, it just seems a little inconsistent. Unsure.

Edited July 18, 2023 by VulpineScream

[ponzipyramid]

20 hours ago, altsforeveryone said:

So I'm having problems trying to get this mod working. Testing with some freshly spawned NPC's, My character goes down, the struggle game plays, I lose it, my character goes down and is hogtied on the floor. Nearby enemies come to gather around and clap at me, then... nothing happens. Sometimes I get the prompt for the Robbery having started, sometimes I don't, but in either case no animations play, no assault occurs, and no consequences result. In my most recent attempt, I spawned about five bandit chiefs, let them defeat me, then went off to go do the dishes that night. Still no event when I'd finished and come back. 

 

I've attached my most recent papyrus logs (I think) and the load order from mod organizer.  

Papyrus.0.log 2.91 MB · 4 downloads loadorder.txt 3.07 kB · 4 downloads

 

As krzp mentioned, its tough to diagnose PD issues with these extra lines. The issue could still lie with PD but either fixing mfgconsole or temporarily disabling Conditional Expressions and trying again can help me figure out what's going on.

 

8 hours ago, Barabaldur said:

I mostly play with a follower. When my PC gets knocked down, I wait until enough HP are regenerated and I can move again. No event is triggered.
When the fight ends, my PC usually drops dead shortly after and the last save is loaded.
Not sure what it is, Acheron, Practical Defeat or YK or some other compatibility error? Maybe someone has an idea?

Papyrus.0.log 618.93 kB · 0 downloads Acheron.log 2.17 kB · 0 downloads

Acheron isn't starting up an event at all according to the log. I'd verify your installation - does your DLL match your Skyrim version, etc.

Edited July 18, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[ponzipyramid]

9 hours ago, VulpineScream said:

I also wanted to note that the last two times I got the "you were dumped somewhere nearby" aftermath, "nearby" was like... 30 feet away from where I was defeated, lmao. Dunno if that was just poor luck or intentional, but probably not ideal either way.

 

It's really tough to balance this. I might just switch the logic to dump you on the edge of the closest town if that's preferable? Technically, if you aren't in harm's way the event succeeded

 

8 hours ago, VulpineScream said:

Woah, suddenly the rescue event worked lmao. Once out of 5 times, huh. This is what popped up in the console when it worked; the enemies and setting was the same as before.

 

I'm sitting on a stability fix that I'm still testing. I think rescue is suffering from the same problem that regular release was. Are there any other outcomes that fail to start like this? I'd rather fix everything in one go than bombard people with a bunch of tiny updates like I've been doing.

 

9 hours ago, VulpineScream said:

Doesn't really seem to say much? It does mention the last creature to defeat me, at least, which it reads as "unrecognized", so I suppose all Immersive Creatures aren't recognized or functional with YK. That really would be nice though, lmao. Playing with vanilla creature support only is always rough; it's such a bleak selection.

 

I'm trying to figure out if PD is being started on creature defeat. In this log were you defeated by creatures every time? If yes and they're weren't vanilla creatures that probably explains it, Acheron thinks they're human enemies and considers Practical Defeat a viable event even though it isn't. Although, this begs the question of what behaviour you're expecting when defeated by a non-vanilla creature since SL animations are unlikely to reliably work.

Edited July 18, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[altsforeveryone]

5 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

As krzp mentioned, its tough to diagnose PD issues with these extra lines. The issue could still lie with PD but either fixing mfgconsole or temporarily disabling Conditional Expressions and trying again can help me figure out what's going on.

Okay, just tried again, paring the mod list down even further to see if anything was interfering. Situation continues as described

 

Papyrus.0.log loadorder.txt

[Barabaldur]

15 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

Acheron isn't starting up an event at all according to the log. I'd verify your installation - does your DLL match your Skyrim version, etc.

Thank you for your reply. Skyrim is on version 1.6.640 and the latest versions of Acheron, Practical Defeat and YK are installed.
I think it is also correct that Acheron does not start an event. My character is defeated, my follower kills the remaining enemies. After 20% HP restored / 90sec passed, the character can be moved again normally. Thus, this encounter should be done. However, shortly after the fight ends, the character drops dead and the last save is loaded. Completely regardless of the current HP. Apparently some system is trying to find an outcome for the situation when my character is defeated but the attacker is also dead. Or there is some other incombatibility I'm not aware of.

If both my character and follower are defeated, the system works as far as I could observe.

[RileyRileyRiley]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:35 PM, ponzipyramid said:

It's really tough to balance this. I might just switch the logic to dump you on the edge of the closest town if that's preferable? Technically, if you aren't in harm's way the event succeeded

 

 

I'm sitting on a stability fix that I'm still testing. I think rescue is suffering from the same problem that regular release was. Are there any other outcomes that fail to start like this? I'd rather fix everything in one go than bombard people with a bunch of tiny updates like I've been doing.

 

I'm trying to figure out if PD is being started on creature defeat. In this log were you defeated by creatures every time? If yes and they're weren't vanilla creatures that probably explains it, Acheron thinks they're human enemies and considers Practical Defeat a viable event even though it isn't. Although, this begs the question of what behaviour you're expecting when defeated by a non-vanilla creature since SL animations are unlikely to reliably work.

 

Yeah, not a huge deal on the "dumped" outcome, just figured I would point that out.

 

Well, the Devious Devices outcome never seems to work for me either. I'd assume when you get the "Let's leave you with some souvenirs" dialogue, you should be left with some Devious Device stuff, but that never really happens for me. They just let me go and the timer to escape begins, so I'm not sure about that one.

 

I think the only creature defeat on that was the IC Spriggan. I will say that SL animations work just fine with most IC enemies, and that Bad Dog's IC works to add schlongs to many of them, so it definitely is an Acheron/YK/whatever issue that it doesn't like recognizing them. If you do decide to work creatures into PD (I strongly suggest you do, haha), I would also suggest adding support for Immersive Creatures as well. Like I said, the game is pretty rough without that variety. 

[Guest]

I've been waiting eagerly to see if someone could basically rebuild Defeat that wasn't specifically made for a female PC and had pretty much everything from the original Defeat. I'm glad to see that so far PD is capable of replacing Defeat in my modlist.

It would be nice to have natural creature support in the mod instead of using another mod but with the plan to have it be very modular I hope to potentially see a creature addon sub mod or something later in the future. Along with the natural creature support, the only other major thing that has been keeping PD out of my modlist is not being able to have the robbing event happen post assault/scene. I primarily play a male PC and have a ton of modular armors/clothing that I give to my followers, many of which I setup for chances for half dressed scenes. I like to play with robbery and FSM as they give me dynamic tasks to complete but as it stands from PD, I have to completely disable the robbery system or just disable the armor/clothing section of it to get the ability to get those half dressed chances.

[ponzipyramid]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:06 PM, altsforeveryone said:

Okay, just tried again, paring the mod list down even further to see if anything was interfering. Situation continues as described

 

Papyrus.0.log 40.59 kB · 3 downloads loadorder.txt 1.64 kB · 1 download

 

Looks like the robbery sequence is getting stuck at some phase. I'll put up a build with some more logging to identify where if you don't mind giving that a shot.

 

On 7/19/2023 at 8:12 AM, Barabaldur said:

Thank you for your reply. Skyrim is on version 1.6.640 and the latest versions of Acheron, Practical Defeat and YK are installed.
I think it is also correct that Acheron does not start an event. My character is defeated, my follower kills the remaining enemies. After 20% HP restored / 90sec passed, the character can be moved again normally. Thus, this encounter should be done. However, shortly after the fight ends, the character drops dead and the last save is loaded. Completely regardless of the current HP. Apparently some system is trying to find an outcome for the situation when my character is defeated but the attacker is also dead. Or there is some other incombatibility I'm not aware of.

If both my character and follower are defeated, the system works as far as I could observe.

 

If PD isn't starting, I'm afraid I can't solve any problems. I would join Scrab's Discord for Acheron support until it gets an official page.

 

20 hours ago, VulpineScream said:

 

Yeah, not a huge deal on the "dumped" outcome, just figured I would point that out.

 

Well, the Devious Devices outcome never seems to work for me either. I'd assume when you get the "Let's leave you with some souvenirs" dialogue, you should be left with some Devious Device stuff, but that never really happens for me. They just let me go and the timer to escape begins, so I'm not sure about that one.

 

I think the only creature defeat on that was the IC Spriggan. I will say that SL animations work just fine with most IC enemies, and that Bad Dog's IC works to add schlongs to many of them, so it definitely is an Acheron/YK/whatever issue that it doesn't like recognizing them. If you do decide to work creatures into PD (I strongly suggest you do, haha), I would also suggest adding support for Immersive Creatures as well. Like I said, the game is pretty rough without that variety. 

 

DD should've been fixed in 0.2.0. Do you have a script log from when that happened?