Why would they use Steam?

[Jerbsinator]

I don't get why Bethesda would use steam to activate the game. Steam is a Valve product isn't it? Why couldn't they just use a CD key like normal games do? It's going to get pirated either way so why bother with this steam thing. Don't get me wrong I like steam but sometimes it's annoying having to start steam just to play a game.

[littleman]

Could do with the download from steam service that I think was offered, to cut back on the amount of cd cost for release? Also, steam helps monitor the game itself "sync with the cloud" So Im assuming it will detail what mods are used? To see what future games may want to have in them?

[tacomarine]

that still don't justify inconvenienceing us. if it was for mods, they'd monitor the nexus (not that i'm complaining, the last thing nexus needs is encouragement). the only thing that isn't for anti-piracy is the no cd release thing, but they have cd's anyway so that argument don't hold up much.

 

well i bought the game, got pissed when steam wanted to update. even moreso now that it HAS to be launched from STEAM. went back to the last patch via system restore and cracked the .exe. no more steam no more patches, but idc, thats what the creation kits for

[Kashked]

It's anti-piracy, plain and simple. I guess they figure that if it is inconvinient enough to pirate the game, that you don't get patches for example, that it increases the likelyhood of you buying it.

[Symon]

I can explain it. I've been in meetings when I've heard the sales department advance an argument rather like this:-

 

"Every pirated copy of our software we can prevent will convert into another sale. We MUST use DRM and it WILL boost sales! We can measure the revenue increase!!!!"

 

What a techy, like me, can NEVER convince them is that:

A) DRM is circumventable by the determined.

If you CAN by some miracle produce software that is hard to pirate, pirates will just go pirate some other software. Most WON'T buy it just because we stop them from stealing it.

C) All the DRM actually does is annoy our paying customers AND burden our software support with calls about the DRM when it gets in the way.

 

Simple, but you can't persuade a salesman of this reality. Something to do with their bonus maybe?

[littleman]

Business 101, tech(engineers) make awful salesmen, where as salesmen make awful tech(engineers) " there is always an exception to this rule"

[Evilokami]

This... Does not stop pirating.

 

People can put the patches up for download.

Steam games can be pirated.

All this did was make us use annoying steam.

 

I personally don't like steam only use it when I absolutely have to. and even then I try to find a way around it.

 

Hell when i forget to exit steam and I'm playing something ill be damned if a steam thing pops up and minimizes my screen causing me to die/lose/be kick.

 

So much exp lost in MMO's I curse you steam.

 

[fiabundem]

WTF DRM really....great way to screw up a game

[Guest Loogie]

"sync with the cloud" So Im assuming it will detail what mods are used? To see what future games may want to have in them?

 

Cloud syncing doesn't monitor your game. It uploads your savegames to Steam so they're available on every computer you play from.

 

 

[calranthe]

The cloud system is optional, either in total or by title, I have it blanket on because I love the convenience of being able to play on my main pc then log on to the laptop and carry on from where I last was.

 

It does not as far as I can tell take anything except save games and settings.

[Jexsam]

Because it's a convenient and popular digital distribution medium.

[galgat]

I think that would depend on YOUR interpretation of Popular.... Not the same as mine.

[Sand_Dragon]

It's anti-piracy' date=' plain and simple. I guess they figure that if it is inconvinient enough to pirate the game, that you don't get patches for example, that it increases the likelyhood of you buying it.

[/quote']

 

Of course, that hardly worked with FNV. Why would it work here?

[chukkake]

At its peak hours, Steam sees over four million players online. That's popular by almost any definition.

[gregathit]

Bottom line is people buy games on steam. Like it or hate it is irrelevant as companies are in business to make money and will do whatever it takes to make as much as they can (if they want to stay in business that is).

 

As chukkake stated the potential to reach millions of customers is something that is hard to turn down. Plus they save costs of not printing hard copies and shipping them, so in their minds its a win win scenerio.

 

Online gaming conglomerates are here to stay and no amount of boycotting or complaining is going to change it sadly, as their are just too many folks who go with the flow.

 

Rather than flaming them for using steam I am instead irritated about the secret rollout patch that breaks the game. In my opinion bombing the Beth boards demanding this type of thing stop is going to get more of a response than demanding that they drop Steam. Of course they likely will just ignore both demands but breaking the game does put them in an awkward light with reviewers so they are more likely to address it.

 

Either way, we can complain, nothing wrong with venting, but just remember that nothing is likely to come from it other than perhaps a small amount of stress relief...

[calranthe]

I keep hearing about this patch that messed up skyrim, I am confused because my game is still playing the same as before.

 

Whether you like it or not steam is actually quite popular and no that is not just sheep following the flow.

 

At this moment 2,325,724 people online in over 1400 different games, peak usa time there was 4274922.

 

76,678 people playing skyrim (given most americans are in bed)

4223 people playing left 4 dead 2

 

Steam has grown into a valid and useful service, valve themselves support more mod comunities than most publishers out there.

 

Comunity support that includes groups/friends/profiles with ease of use, 5 mins ago I was in skyrim and took a screenshot of a goat being knocked into orbit by a giant, two clicks and my profile for my group friends to see added that screenshot, its little things like that.

 

There are issues auto updating (can be fixed with offline mode or unticking. Sometimes the advert for the sales tabs me out of my game but I believe there is a fix for that also.

 

But anyone who has been around steam since 2004 knows how much steam has given to gaming and comunities.

 

 

[gregathit]

The patch made the current LAA patches or modifications not work. The only alternative is to revert to the original exe for those who either where lucky enough to make a copy or if you have Win7. A third option has surfaced thanks to a brilliant modder that head fakes the drm and enables the LAA. For those of us that pushed the settings to ultra it makes the game into a crashy pile of rubbish without LAA.

 

Bottom line, it is was a terribly silly roll out by steam that has caused a rift in goodwill.

 

As to the service, yea I like them generally. I have 70 some odd games with them so......

 

As to the auto updating....your only safe bet is to stay offline. Ticking do not update won't save you my friend. They override that setting ALL THE TIME!!!

[galgat]

At its peak hours' date=' Steam sees over four million players online. That's popular by almost any definition.

[/quote']

 

I call that slavery, most of those people are forced to be there to use the software They Bought with there Money..They have no choice..

 

I guess that Most slaves would call that Popular, by you standards,.. I don't think it would be Popular to me.

 

I like having choices.. This give you no choice, join or do with out. Buy it but never own it, Play it but only if they let you. Have it, but not really have it.

 

Say things like oh, but they give me great deals on software, Gee if I lose my disk I can download it right back from them.. Or my favorite, they are so nice, and if they go out of business they will make a patch that lets us all play with out them. They take good care of there slaves.

 

I like taking care of myself.. I don't think I have ever lost a game, and if I did, big deal. I find good deals on software everywhere..just google it.

 

And read the fine print , they are not responsible for anything..and they only supply you with service if they want to, they do not have to..

 

Read the whole contract..as it were.

 

Its just a racket..a Protection racket.

 

 

[ronttu]

That has always been the case with all games that come with any sort of DRM or online service, since the dawn of time. It's just fashionable to concoct conspiracy theories about Steam.

 

I wouldn't say Steam doesn't have issues, but this paranoia over things no one can prove is ridiculous. And slaves? I truly hope you're not being serious, or there's something essential getting lost in translation, because that's just retarded. There's a fine line between being critical about things and the point where you don your tinfoil hat, cape and gallop full steam towards the nearest windmill.

 

tinfoil

You know what I call slavery? That all these game makers are forcing us to use Windows! We all know Microsoft is an evil incarnate, and we have to use their OS because the game makers made a deal with the devil!

/tinfoil

 

That MS sentiment was rather common years back, less so these days, I guess it fell out of fashion. Bears a nice similarity to the current Steam hate, wouldn't you think?

[Ryanhabs]

Don't check off Galgat's statement just yet as he does have some valid points really. Sure, everyone had the option of just a straight downloadable venue for playing this game, but there are plenty of people like myself that have done everything they can to steer clear of steam purposely. I paid a grand total of 75.99 for this game to be a stand-alone disk install, and delivered to my doorstep on the day it was released. I'm sure anyone who purchased from steam probably paid what, 59 bucks or something like that?

 

I like to have hard copies of the products I purchase as it is most likely a mental thing where having the ability to physically touch something I paid for is a way of justifying the purchase itself. It's my opinion that since I opted for a physical copy of this product I should have the ability to bypass steam all together.

 

I won't go as far as to say I feel that steam makes gamers in to slaves, but it truly doesn't give any options as to how your able to access or play the games you now "own". My view on this is if you bought through steam than sure, you would have lost your choice as to how you access said game, but if you had opted for a physical copy... you should of at least had a choice as to if you wanted to use steam or just install it as a stand alone. I was very disappointed when I found this was not an option. I wouldn't even care if patches and such were not available to the stand alone option, my game ran 100% better before that little stealth patch anyways.

 

like I said, I don't look at it to the extreme like Galgat, but he has some very valid points as we all paid for use of a product but now it seems that there will be lines that when crossed will be stealth installed to pull us all back to the normal usage to a degree.

Ok, rant off.

 

[ronttu]

I'm sure he has valid points, and I share the concerns. It's the way it's said that makes me check it off as "foaming off the sides of the mouth". It's not any sort of debating any flaws or possible merits of the system, it's soapbox-crazy-shouting-in-rags-at-street-corner, and an obvious attempt at, if not convincing people thinking otherwise, then at least wearing them out until they'll just go "yeah yeah, whatever", and leave you feeling like you accomplished something.

 

Besides, I always get hard copies of games myself, just in case.. If Steam went belly-up, any game that still has following but relies on Steam will get a community patch of some sort to make it playable without Steam, but you'll have to have a physical copy of it for it to work, obviously. Or, if Steam turned out to be like EA and installed rootkits on my system.

 

And my game never CTD'd before that stealth patch, now it does randomly, so I can see where the rage comes from, but I still maintain that if you start sounding like a doomsayer with the cardboard sign "end of days" held up, you should step back for a bit and just take a deep breath.

[tacomarine]

...but I still maintain that if you start sounding like a doomsayer with the cardboard sign "end of days" held up' date=' you should step back for a bit and just take a deep breath.

[/quote']

 

so if steam gets hacked by somebody smarter next time, do you mind if i do the honors?

no offence intended. thats just what i said to myself nd thought it was funny.

 

now on a serious note.

 

you three have good points. mind if i make one?

the producer (can't recall his name off hand) seems to have a personal crusade going against pirates. combine that with the loss in sales, and potential to advertise the product to an even bigger population, and you get reverted to an anti-piracy program called steam. what the producer don't seem to get is anti-piracy really just means harder-but-still-possible-piracy. so to compensate, he makes the game launched from STEAM. guess what he didn't know? theres legitly a pirated steam. problem solved for pirates. for the ppl who bought it? oh well.

 

as far as sales, i can understand him not wanting sales to be lost, but he seems so caught up with that that he forgets that some people actually bought the game, and he's just pissing them off.

 

my point i know i forgot to make? STEAM is a good idea. how it's being used... is not. it does do some things right.

 

now if you excuse me, i need an asprin. too much defending steam...

[galgat]

I guess you all know that steam does PR, it is a way to Baggier the nay Sayers, those that see the trouble with steam.

 

They sit with google going, and hunt for key words opposing Steam, and then they jump in, and start raving about how wonderful steam is, and how it saved there lives, and if it were not for steam there first born would have never walked..

 

These people get payed for this. And they have a bunch of One liners laid out ready to copy and past.

 

And then there are the slaves, who have had there pride taken, and no longer have the voice to speak what they know is true, there the ones that say.

 

"My Master is a good Master, he feed me, and give me things..he a good Master, You Mind the Master now, be no trouble that way.."

 

the Collar is DRM, the leash is the internet, the Master is Steam. And you just go to sleep, and watch..

 

I know there is no sense talking about it, I wish something could be done, but you have convinced yourself that this is how it has to be, and all of us who oppose your view are considered stupid, and we just don't understand the masters Purpose. We need to just shut up, and then the master will be good to us again.

 

You own nothing, you turn it on only if they allow you. You payed for it, but it is not yours to control. You can not sell it unless you sell your steam account, which is illegal, you have bought something that you paid for, but did not truly obtain.

 

And don't tell me how no one will ever Steal your accounts.. Talk to Sony Play station players about that.

 

I have friends that still have not got there accounts re activated. And Sony has just turned a deaf ear to them.

 

I wish I could be a passive submissive, like you all that love steam, but It is just not in my nature. I can not abide slavery, or extortion in any form, and convince my self that it is OK.

[Warrunner]

Its like Galgat is really a modern day Andrew Ryan...

 

Anyway, I don't know about any of you, but I have an Xbox360 and a Ps3 as well as a gaming computer, so if I didn't like what Steam was selling, I do, in fact, have options. That said, I like their service. I enjoy the convienence. I like that I can use it to keep track of friends. I like the service. Does that make me a slave? Or have I made a conscious choice as a consumer?

 

In the end, this is all rhetoric. Has steam somehow saved my life? No. Have I given them money to indefinitely rent games instead of buy them? Yeap. Does that irritate me? Not so very much.

[calranthe]

So the patch only affected those who were messing around and not using the official exe ? hmm *shakes head and walks away from the thread laughing after hearing the word slavery in relation to steam*

 

We have some amazing skilled modders here, some awesome people but when people come out with phrases like that it makes me realise why from now on I will only be answering threads to do with mods because this is getting way beyond rediculous.

 

Having been a professional (as in paid) Master for over twenty years your analogy is even more rediculous, btw I do not trust sony never have even though I own a ps3 not all companies are the same.

 

But just to add a little something before I leave this and the other anti steam threads.

 

I have a pretty good college and uni education, have done many and varied things in my life (now 41), I retired 13 years ago when my wife got cancer (acute lymphoblastic leukeamia) Although I still sort of did professional work.

 

I used to full time run the greyarchive an erotica site I updated for 10 years before rl issues came to the front.

 

I also helped code and ran one of the most successful adult muds(pure adult fetish mud we created our first coded hentai monster class and Dragon sex mods in 99) (alot of what you do with mods today we were doing in txt in our mud ten years ago) it is now 14 years old (5th revision at the start it was a diku style but now we run a mysql/java hybrid. Edge of Midnight.

 

I am no ones fool or slave but I will defend someone or something that I actually have experience with.

 

No reason for me to come back to this thread as it is beginning to spoil my enjoyment of LL

 

*passes out the foil hats to everyone as he exits the building*