SE ESPFE limit?

[ShivasBane]

I have a kind of a strange problem. If I try to add an ESPFE to an existing game whether it be a follower or an outfit the game won't finish loading. It ctd's consistently at the end of the load process. It will allow me to install normal esp's but if I try to install a light plugin it won't load. This seems to me to be the opposite of the way it's supposed to work. I have an already large load order but in testing I can install light plugins and it will load only if I start a new game. I'm just trying to add an outfit to an existing game which is marked as a light plugin but no dice. It seems really strange to me  that I can add a normal esp no problem but a light plugin is a no go. Anyone have any ideas?

[Just Don't]

The limit is estimated to be around 4096 ESL or ESP-ESL flagged files.

The problem is you can't change from an ESP to an ESL file midgame. Part of the process of ESL flagging a plugin means the formids will change and that can cause crashes. This is why sometimes a mod author will warn users about switching between regular ESP and ESL-flagged versions of their mods in an existing save.

Better check a guide about ESL-flagging mods and do any tests and changes in a new game, not saves you care about.

[KoolHndLuke]

Yeah. Best rule of thumb is to either look for the .esl version right off or convert it yourself. I have about 30 mods that I have yet to convert because I don't want to lose those saves.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by KoolHndLuke

[ShivasBane]

I haven't changed them after starting a game. They are already in esl format. All I wanted to do was add an outfit to an existing game. The outfit contains a light plugin and after installing and building in bodyslide the game refused to finish loading. I uninstalled it and the game loaded fine. Out of curiosity I installed an outfit with a normal esp (not light), built it in bodyslide and the game loaded ok. So after that I uninstalled 3 mods (1 normal, 2 light) then added 6 more light mods and started a new game. That worked ok so after getting to Riverwood I made a hard save and closed the game. I installed another light plugin and the game refused to load again. Removing it fixed the loading issue. According to Vortex I have 135 not light plugins and 183 light plugins. I had a very stable game at one time that was running 238 not light plugins with I think it was about 30 light plugins. I'm confused as to why the game will run if I add another normal plugin but won't even load if I install another light plugin. It just seems backwards to me. According to the numbers I shouldn't be close enough to the limits for it to matter. Thanks for your help so far.

[Just Don't]

If you're adding an ESL file for the first time (and it's a full ESL, not ESL flagged esp) then these tend to go up near the top of your loadorder. Which means you're changing the mod index of pretty much everything else. Usually that's not a problem, but some mods may be expecting the already existing index. One such mod is SOS (the full one, with the dll). If you happen to change your loadorder enough for SOS or its addons to change mod index you'll crash. There's a workaround for this which is remove the sos dll, load your game and make a new save, close the game and restore the sos dll, then load the save you just made and keep playing with it. You'll likely have to redo some SOS settings or some data may be lost (like revealing armors registered or assigned schlongs). There could be more mods, the one I know is SOS.

If this only happens in your existing save that's very likely the reason. If you can produce similar crashes even in new games then there's something else going on. I doubt you're hitting any kind of limit (unless you're not using Engine Fixes to increase the MaxStdio cap?).

Edited March 24, 2023 by Just Don't

[bnub345]

In theory a 64-bit program like SSE can handle up to 4096 plugins. In reality this is limited by the engine to 512, with 256 esm/esps + 255 esl + save space (ff). Or 2048 plugins with the engine fixes mod. It doesn't really matter as you aren't close to even the lowest limit. 

 

The problem might be with the mod you are trying to install. Using a bsa in LE format on an SE game would cause it to close without loading. Also the outfit mesh itself might be messed up somehow even if it's in the right format. 

[ShivasBane]

4 hours ago, Just Don't said:

If you're adding an ESL file for the first time (and it's a full ESL, not ESL flagged esp) then these tend to go up near the top of your loadorder. Which means you're changing the mod index of pretty much everything else. Usually that's not a problem, but some mods may be expecting the already existing index. One such mod is SOS (the full one, with the dll). If you happen to change your loadorder enough for SOS or its addons to change mod index you'll crash. There's a workaround for this which is remove the sos dll, load your game and make a new save, close the game and restore the sos dll, then load the save you just made and keep playing with it. You'll likely have to redo some SOS settings or some data may be lost (like revealing armors registered or assigned schlongs). There could be more mods, the one I know is SOS.

If this only happens in your existing save that's very likely the reason. If you can produce similar crashes even in new games then there's something else going on. I doubt you're hitting any kind of limit (unless you're not using Engine Fixes to increase the MaxStdio cap?).

The problem is most probably this one. I was under the impression that a new mod was added to the bottom of the order not the top. This explains lot thankyou.

[ShivasBane]

4 hours ago, bnub345 said:

In theory a 64-bit program like SSE can handle up to 4096 plugins. In reality this is limited by the engine to 512, with 256 esm/esps + 255 esl + save space (ff). Or 2048 plugins with the engine fixes mod. It doesn't really matter as you aren't close to even the lowest limit. 

 

The problem might be with the mod you are trying to install. Using a bsa in LE format on an SE game would cause it to close without loading. Also the outfit mesh itself might be messed up somehow even if it's in the right format. 

After installing the outfit and starting a new game everything worked so the mod itself is ok. I believe my problem is the one listed above yours. I thank you for your help in this matter.

[ShivasBane]

30 minutes ago, ShivasBane said:

The problem is most probably this one. I was under the impression that a new mod was added to the bottom of the order not the top. This explains lot thankyou.

I installed the outfit and again it wouldn't load so I followed your suggestion concerning the SOS dll and that worked. I'm not sure how stable the game will be but at least I was able to test the new outfit. I've been putting it off until the mods I use most have been updated and now I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and update to AE. Thanks for the help. I know that adding mods to an existing game can make it unstable but that's the first time that it wouldn't load at all.