Devious Followers Framework Development

[ponzipyramid]

25 minutes ago, Seeker999 said:

Amount of debt, willpower, offering to make a deal, number of current deals, and how many times punished (if you keep track) would all factor into the severity of a deal. Severity isn't just the deal itself (which has its own starting severity level if I'm understanding you correctly) but higher buyout cost and longer duration.

 

For this initial release, I'm going with rather simple selection logic to make sure the changes I've made so far are fine. But these are all good notes for how to gradually make the system more intelligent. I'd go with the upper bound on the severity thresholds you've laid out.

 

26 minutes ago, Seeker999 said:

I am guessing you plan to have the modular deals rather than any classic deals. Maybe up to 8 modular groups?

 

I went into more detail in a previous post but in short, I've eliminated classic deals. The new system relies entirely on modular rules with rule progressions being provided by "rule paths" instead of deals. This way you get the flexibility of modular rules with the cogency of classic deals and no issues with overlaps. Buyout mechanics are still largely the same as modular deals.

 

41 minutes ago, Seeker999 said:

Don't know enough about to judge

 

Armor modification is when the follower takes any armor from your inventory, makes some "changes" to it and gives it back. It doesn't force you to wear anything specific at any specific location so its a softer, less intrusive form of outfit control. More specifically, any vanilla clothing item will have a revealing equivalent (by default pulled from Remodeled Armor or maybe BD's but this will be editable in a config file). While I like the whore armor and maid rules, having to wear a single outfit for an extended period of time seems rather dull though I may spice those up by your follower occasionally swapping out your current outfit for something else within the same theme or whore armor tolerating items tagged as Bikini (according to Baka's keywords).

 

Outfit Control places more complicated requirements on the player and your follower can swap out your outfit on a whim. The skimpiness is designed to scale with willpower.

 

Pet Collar is just equipping this mod's collar instead of a traditional DD collar and occasionally toggling one of its effects.

 

Maintenance is needing to spend a few hours a week cleaning your follower's equipment. This is mostly designed to be a time sink and can apply some exhaustion debuffs.

 

Cleanliness is your follower requiring you to stay clean. Cleanliness is determined through installed bathing mods (BiS, D&B, etc.) and SL's cum layers. Naturally conflicts with rules like cum covering. Your suggestion could be a separate rule though its sort of already part of the tape gag rule.

[Darkwing241]

I've been working on rebuilding a SE load order so that I can experiment with/enjoy DF.  In my past play throughs I have been trying to play a bit of a "true hero" roleplay where a progressively weaker and support oriented PC teams up with a progressively stronger follower.  I've found a frustrating lack of mods to control the gameplay impact of follower.  The vanilla followers spike up and down in terms of offense and defense, early game they just blast through enemies and late game they struggle to even visibly move an enemies health bar.  Similar can be said about their defense, sometimes they seem invulnerable, other times they go down in seconds.  

 

Do any thread followers have recommendations?  Skytweak is in many ways the ultimate in manual, granular game balancing but even that is pretty limited as far as followers go.

 

It also got me thinking that there may be some value in including a power scale feature in DF.  Some or all deal could provide boosts the the DF.  I haven't got to test them much but some of the maid/cleaning/feeding duties could go pretty deep in putting the PC in the mindset of "how do I best support my DF"

[ponzipyramid]

Preliminary testing went pretty well. There are no major workflow problems, the issues brought up with the last version of DFF seem to have been resolved. I did have to fix a couple small bugs stemming from my ported rules - which only reaffirms a preview build being a good idea before posting.

 

If DF slavery wasn't broken before, it almost certainly is now but I also don't think its worth addressing if the plan is to completely revamp it. SS++ and SLTR should suffice for now. It is definitely next on the list after follower personalities.

 

Now for the arduous process of actually packaging the mod...

[Anunya]

Been away from Skyrim for a bit, but I'm really liking where this seems to be going.

[ponzipyramid]

Here's the first version of Devious Followers Redux - fingers crossed I've included everything I'm supposed to. You'll need everything the original mod requires + Open Animation Replacer (which I've used to improve the crawling system). This is currently incompatible with Dealer's Choice which I'm porting now.

 

Please LMK if you run into any issues when testing or if any questions about what's changed come up.

 

Changelog:

 

Spoiler

Version 0.1.2

• Removed socks from devious boots devices categories
• Added gag unequip to milking and skooma deals
• Fixed endless rule extension
• Fixed device addition after first rule offering
• Fixed missing rule settings page

Version 0.1.1

• Added missing OAR animations
• Removed mod manager files

Version 0.1.0

• Streamlined deal selection and severity filtering
• Rule paths now allows for cogent modular rule selection
• Crawling is now handled by OAR instead of FNIS
• Device controller now uses Devious Devices 5.0 and can select from the full range of devices
• Device controller is about ~twice as fast

 

Devious Followers Redux v0.1.2.7z

Edited October 23, 2023 by ponzipyramid
v0.1.2

[Leoosp]

Just a note for the next release if your using at least 1 script to help with packaging releases including development releases, please include a section to remove from the packaging "__folder_managed_by_vortex". As these can seriously be an issue when using Vortex as this can confuse another user's installation of Vortex.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Leoosp

[ponzipyramid]

17 minutes ago, Leoosp said:

Just a note for the next release if your using at least 1 script to help with packaging releases including development releases, please include a section to remove from the packaging "__folder_managed_by_vortex". As these can seriously be an issue when using Vortex as this can confuse another user's installation of Vortex.

 

Good note, removed them on my local copy, they'll be gone in the next update.

[inviz.t]

Some things I noticed after testing the deals system:

After reaching a certain amount of deals, all future deals cause the "I'll extend an existing deal..." dialogue to play. When buying out of all deals, then starting a new deal, it will still use that dialogue even when a different deal is chosen by the mod (i.e, it gives you the devious boots deal but plays the "I'll extend a deal" dialogue)

The gag deal conflicts with the skooma and lactaid deals

When buying out of a deal such as the devious boots one, any future devious boots deals wont give you any boots to wear (tested twice, once with boots in my inventory and again without, same result. This applies to all devious items, for some reason the guady items deal worked fine and gave me the items each time)

The devious boots deal gave me devious... socks (I'm using Devious Devices NG, which is very likely the cause of this issue. The specific item I got was "Ebonite Catsuit Socks")

The "Rules Settings" part of the MCM is blank

I stopped getting new deals with the vaginal piercing deal (I think) - is there a limit to the amount of deals you can have active?

Edited October 23, 2023 by inviz.t

[ponzipyramid]

20 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

Some things I noticed after testing the deals system:

After reaching a certain amount of deals, all future deals cause the "I'll extend an existing deal..." dialogue to play. When buying out of all deals, then starting a new deal, it will still use that dialogue even when a different deal is chosen by the mod (i.e, it gives you the devious boots deal but plays the "I'll extend a deal" dialogue)

The gag deal conflicts with the skooma and lactaid deals

When buying out of a deal such as the devious boots one, any future devious boots deals wont give you any boots to wear (tested twice, once with boots in my inventory and again without, same result)

The devious boots deal gave me devious... socks (I'm using Devious Devices NG, which is very likely the cause of this issue. The specific item I got was "Ebonite Catsuit Socks")

The "Rules Settings" part of the MCM is blank

I stopped getting new deals with the vaginal piercing deal (I think) - is there a limit to the amount of deals you can have active?

 

Thanks for the feedback, just fixed everything except:

• Devious Boots not being added after the first time
• No deals after vaginal piercing

In the latter, you might've expended all compatible rules with what you currently have. If the rule conflicts are too strict I can relax that. Can you provide a script log (Documents/My Games/Skryim Special Edition/Logs/Script/Papyrus.0) and DF SKSE log (Documents/My Games/Skryim Special Edition/SKSE/DeviousFollowersRedux.log)?

Edited October 23, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[inviz.t]

8 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Thanks for the feedback, just fixed everything except:

• Devious Boots not being added after the first time
• No deals after vaginal piercing

In the latter, you might've expended all compatible rules with what you currently have. If the rule conflicts are too strict I can relax that. Can you provide a script log (Documents/My Games/Skryim Special Edition/Logs/Script/Papyrus.0) and DF SKSE log (Documents/My Games/Skryim Special Edition/SKSE/DeviousFollowersRedux.log)?

I can't find a folder named Logs or a Papyrus.0 file, but here's the DeviousFollowersRedux file

DeviousFollowersRedux.log

[ponzipyramid]

11 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

I can't find a folder named Logs or a Papyrus.0 file, but here's the DeviousFollowersRedux file

DeviousFollowersRedux.log 67.96 kB · 0 downloads

 

You can enable script logging using this guide: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/articles/368

[ponzipyramid]

15 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

I can't find a folder named Logs or a Papyrus.0 file, but here's the DeviousFollowersRedux file

DeviousFollowersRedux.log 67.96 kB · 0 downloads

 

You can enable script logging using this guide: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/articles/368

 

EDIT: you will need to replicate the error for it to show up since the log is refreshed every game start.

Edited October 23, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[inviz.t]

26 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

You can enable script logging using this guide: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/articles/368

 

EDIT: you will need to replicate the error for it to show up since the log is refreshed every game start.

I edited my ini file and created the other file it asked for in the guide, but still no logs folder. Sorry about that

 

In regards to the lactaid / skooma deal - a message that the drug was equipped is displayed (when the player asks their follower for them), but it only gets put in your inventory. Maybe these deals could be made to work with gag deals if it got equipped properly?

 

And for the potion quest,

Spoiler

it works up until the player refuses a request (once is enough), then the only option when asking for cum is "What terms?", not letting you actually ask to suck him off and softlocking the entire quest (and leaving you with the debuffs). I think this was an issue with earlier versions as well, so it's not related to your modifications, maybe it's something you could fix at some point though

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by inviz.t

[ponzipyramid]

6 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

I edited my ini file and created the other file it asked for in the guide, but still no logs folder. Sorry about that

 

In regards to the lactaid / skooma deal - a message that the drug was equipped is displayed (when the player asks their follower for them), but it only gets put in your inventory. Maybe these deals could be made to work with gag deals if it got equipped properly?

 

And for the potion quest,

  Hide contents

it works up until the player refuses a request (once is enough), then the only option when asking for cum is "What terms?", not letting you actually ask to suck him off and softlocking the entire quest (and leaving you with the debuffs). I think this was an issue with earlier versions as well, so it's not related to your modifications, maybe it's something you could fix at some point though

 

 

For now, I've added an explicit conflict between the gag and consume item rules but I'll add a quick system to unequip and re-equip the gag later. I'll try to replicate the repeated deal failed equip.

Edited October 23, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[ponzipyramid]

Just put up v0.1.2 with various fixes. I've wrapped up porting Dealer's Choice - will post that soon as well.

Edited October 23, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[Leoosp]

1 hour ago, ponzipyramid said:

Just put up v0.1.2 with various fixes. I've wrapped up porting Dealer's Choice - will post that soon as well.

 

At the moment it seems that Monoman1 has removed (taken down) Spank That Ass (LE) and had the porter of Spank That Ass (SE) take down the port of the LE version. So depending what's being done, some countermeasures may be needed. Also may be worth speaking to Monoman1 to find out the reason for the removal, as well as their plans.

 

Cause if Spank That Ass (SE) doesn't make a return in some form then an alternative will be required!

[inviz.t]

1 hour ago, ponzipyramid said:

Just put up v0.1.2 with various fixes. I've wrapped up porting Dealer's Choice - will post that soon as well.

 

I ran through the deal system again to test it and got an issue just like the Devious Sock one - the arms and leg cuffs deal gave me "rusty iron chain harness (legs)", which can't be equipped because it's meant to add onto a harness (It gives this message when trying to equip it "You cannot lock on this device without the main body harness being worn.")

 

And the corset deal gave me a "black ebonite restrictive chastity corset", which prevented me from equipping clitoral piercings as required by a different deal, as well as any plugs

 

 

18 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

In the latter, you might've expended all compatible rules with what you currently have. If the rule conflicts are too strict I can relax that. Can you provide a script log (Documents/My Games/Skryim Special Edition/Logs/Script/Papyrus.0) and DF SKSE log (Documents/My Games/Skryim Special Edition/SKSE/DeviousFollowersRedux.log)?

I think I can safely say now that the rule conflicts are indeed too strict, because after going through the deals, buying back out, then through them again, I end up with an almost identical set of deals that shouldn't prevent other things from being offered (such as the sex deal, cum covering deal, chastity deal, dialogue strip etc.)

 

 

And I want to mention how much better this mod feels to play now, the speedup of this along with Devious Devices NG feels amazing, thank you for all your work

[inviz.t]

8 minutes ago, Leoosp said:

 

At the moment it seems that Monoman1 has removed (taken down) Spank That Ass (LE) and had the porter of Spank That Ass (SE) take down the port of the LE version. So depending what's being done, some countermeasures may be needed. Also may be worth speaking to Monoman1 to find out the reason for the removal, as well as their plans.

 

Cause if Spank That Ass (SE) doesn't make a return in some form then an alternative will be required!

Spank That Ass is actually an optional dependency, and the spanking deal will still work without it. But it's a shame Monoman removed it since it tied into the mod so well

Edited October 23, 2023 by inviz.t

[Leoosp]

16 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

Spank That Ass is actually an optional dependency, and the spanking deal will still work without it. But it's a shame Monoman removed it since it tied into the mod so well

 

Yes its an optional dependency but either built-in or through SLS it enables by Spank That Ass the loss of will power and/or resistance. Which then affects the rest of the game play of this mod.

 

Actually in the native DFC it will not work with spanking deal, without spank that ass and the the animation pack. So unless the code has been updated to make it still function without, then unfortunately its incorrect that statement.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Leoosp

[ponzipyramid]

23 minutes ago, Leoosp said:

 

At the moment it seems that Monoman1 has removed (taken down) Spank That Ass (LE) and had the porter of Spank That Ass (SE) take down the port of the LE version. So depending what's being done, some countermeasures may be needed. Also may be worth speaking to Monoman1 to find out the reason for the removal, as well as their plans.

 

Cause if Spank That Ass (SE) doesn't make a return in some form then an alternative will be required!

 

I'll likely make the spanking stuff in DF standalone soonish. If mono is really taking everything down permanently, I'm inclined to start thinking about some modular, lightweight replacements. Gyra is already doing a good job expanding the license and toll systems, CumSwallowNeedsAddon is doing what the name implies. We'd still need replacements for STA, eviction, begging, fashion, etc.

 

17 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

I ran through the deal system again to test it and got an issue just like the Devious Sock one - the arms and leg cuffs deal gave me "rusty iron chain harness (legs)", which can't be equipped because it's meant to add onto a harness (It gives this message when trying to equip it "You cannot lock on this device without the main body harness being worn.")

 

Should've mentioned this before, the devices in each category are determined by reading Data/SKSE/Plugins/Devious Followers Redux/Config/devices.json. If there are certain devices creating issues, you can remove them from the list.

 

17 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

I think I can safely say now that the rule conflicts are indeed too strict, because after going through the deals, buying back out, then through them again, I end up with an almost identical set of deals that shouldn't prevent other things from being offered (such as the sex deal, cum covering deal, chastity deal, dialogue strip etc.)

 

Can you post your SKSE log from the last go? I added some logging in 0.1.2 to see when certain rules are being excluded.

Edited October 23, 2023 by ponzipyramid

[inviz.t]

12 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

Can you post your SKSE log from the last go? I added some logging in 0.1.2 to see when certain rules are being excluded.

DeviousFollowersRedux.log

[ponzipyramid]

22 minutes ago, inviz.t said:

DeviousFollowersRedux.log 110.25 kB · 1 download

 

Can you drop this DLL into Data/SKSE/Plugins? I've softened the effect rule paths have on selection and allowed higher severity rules to always be considered but with a lower weighting.

DeviousFollowersRedux.dll

[inviz.t]

2 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

Can you drop this DLL into Data/SKSE/Plugins? I've softened the effect rule paths have on selection and allowed higher severity rules to always be considered but with a lower weighting.

DeviousFollowersRedux.dll 1.03 MB · 1 download

This plays better since there's more variety, but it does feel somewhat unfair as my very first deal was the petsuit deal, which is a bit extreme, but it's not too bad since the player can refuse. A tie in with harsher deals and the players willpower/resistance would help to make things feel more natural

 

I found a bug with the pet suit deal, when you ask your follower to remove it they agree, but it doesn't get removed, and when you leave a settlement and they announce they're going to remove it nothing happens either. The debug command in the MCM to remove it also does nothing. I spawned in a restraints key and removed it that way, and now my follower keeps repeating "Let's get you out of that suit!" when I try to talk to them - not sure if this is Devious followers or Devious Devices NG related, since there's also some weird camera issues, but that part could be down to the my mod setup.

Edited October 23, 2023 by inviz.t

[inviz.t]

I just noticed there's an extra blank entry at the bottom of the MCM

[inviz.t]

22 hours ago, inviz.t said:

After reaching a certain amount of deals, all future deals cause the "I'll extend an existing deal..." dialogue to play. When buying out of all deals, then starting a new deal, it will still use that dialogue even when a different deal is chosen by the mod (i.e, it gives you the devious boots deal but plays the "I'll extend a deal" dialogue)

Similar to this earlier bug, when you get offered (not sure if you need to accept or not) the "chastity game" deal, future deal offers will repeat the "I want to own your pussy..." dialogue, weirdly though the "I'll extend a deal.." dialogue still played and fixed the bug, letting all dialogue play out normally again. The log file here was running during each of the bugs I encountered

DeviousFollowersRedux.log

Edited October 23, 2023 by inviz.t