So Let Me Get This Straight..

[tankball]

so up until now WW dev u were 100% ok with teens fucking each other and teens fucking adults. but EA releases highschool years and u remove that part from the mod? really? why r u even making a degeneracy mod if u r going to just go and remove parts of it cuz u somehow "feel bad" now. from what i can tell WickedWhims Inappropriate Unlock 1.0.2 its a big pain in the ass to get up and running. for me i dont just want the fucking i also want the relationship part also witch from what i can tell inappropriate doesnt restore. lucky i still have a older ver. of sims 4 and WW i can still use. i just want update to the newest ver. of both until WW dev gets a back bone and restores what he censored/removed or until inappropriate is just a simple drop in fix and dont have to add a trait just to get everything back

[MrGrey]

Not really.  Base game had woohoo for adults and fooling around for teens. WW had teen-teen sex vs adult sex. You needed WickedAssistant's inappropriate unlock to cross the teen-teen line. Not a part of either Patreon or Public version.

 

The difference is that before, it was easy to excuse it as consensual sex making the (lame) claim that the teens were 18 or 19 per the EA unspoken fig leaf of an excuse.

 

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens. No way can you pretend that they're of the age of majority. Now it's all statutory rape like.

 

Turbo makes the mod, it's his mod. I don't recommend any other option at this point.  The "work around" is the inappropriate unlock, where you can make teens past puberty.

[Gambit]

3 hours ago, MrGrey said:

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens. No way can you pretend that they're of the age of majority. Now it's all statutory rape like.

 

 

It's not statuary rape. They are not people.

 

Base Game "woohoo" or "mess around" are okay, because they aren't really a graphical depiction of a sexual act. At the countrary with WW we're in a gray zone : With the last pack, teens are now acknowelged as potentially pre-pubescent characters even if they look as adult. So any WW animations with teens could be considered by law as a graphical depiction of sexual act with a minor. Which could bring bad mojo.

[XJ347]

16 hours ago, MrGrey said:

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens

This is directed at people in general and not you MrGrey. I know you are just referencing the WW creator.

Do know that prepubescent means people?

Prepubescent is the state of not starting puberty. Meaning If you start puberty then you are NOT prepubescent. By being teenagers they have already started puberty, therefore it is impossible for them to be prepubescent.

If you want to say they are minors, then say they are minors. Don't mix up words, Minors and prepubescent mean different things.

Also just so you know too, statuary rape depends on the state in the US.  Different states have different ages. Most of the south is 16, Texas is 17, California is 18, but has a exception if you are within 2 years age difference from of your partner. 

Knowledge is an interesting thing.

As for Turbo, it's his mod. If he wants to be conservative then he has the right. As long as he doesn't stop moders from changing it after who cares? Let the man do the framework and then get a mod to fix what he leaves out. It is not the end of the world.

[SysGhost]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:15 AM, MrGrey said:

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens. No way can you pretend that they're of the age of majority. Now it's all statutory rape like.

Ok, so I might be an idot... but i have yet to find any offcial source (in-game, EA, etc) that confirms teens are now supposed to be prepubescent.

So I just question where this argument comes from? To me it just seems like interpretation.

And again, I might be an idot, but if they truly were supposed to be prepubescent, why does EA keep the "Mess Around" function? (I mean we all know what is means).

[Croma76]

With the new update, seems that the new sim girl at school is an lesbian, but all before that you can make a male/female sim fall in love with the same gender (and have sex with WW)

Why now the change???

Edited August 4, 2022 by Croma76

[Kerrigan001]

1 hour ago, SysGhost said:

Ok, so I might be an idot... but i have yet to find any offcial source (in-game, EA, etc) that confirms teens are now supposed to be prepubescent.

So I just question where this argument comes from? To me it just seems like interpretation.

And again, I might be an idot, but if they truly were supposed to be prepubescent, why does EA keep the "Mess Around" function? (I mean we all know what is means).

 

The first time your teen sim gets an acne breakout it gives a popup that says specifically you're starting puberty. 'nothing says you're starting puberty like out of control acne and body hair' or something along those lines. I noticed Turbo also made whatever the flag is in the background to show your sim is past puberty a selectable option (Post Pubescent) which I imagine is how it is worded in the code. These phrases and flags didn't exist prior to the update so it's not like he suddenly found Jesus or some shit. He just wanted to stay ahead of it. It's true that Teens prior to the update were Teens attending High School - but because nothing specifically existed pointing to their approximate age, you could just assume they were 18 because they can move into lots alone and don't need an adult present to do it. 

 

Mess Around has zero chance of getting a sim pregnant. We don't have a Try for Baby version of it for teens in game. Or it means exactly what you're saying it means and Teens aren't old enough to make babies. I'm kidding. 

 

There are a lot of knee jerk reactions to Turbo hiding the teen sex function behind guard rails and I agreed with the angry statements but then I played the game for a couple of days and saw that pop-up and realized it's probably a good idea because there are definitely puberty lines in the code. 

[Fireclawiswoot]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:15 AM, MrGrey said:

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens. 

 

 

They're not pre-pubescent though, you can give teens body hair and teen males always been able to have facial hair. Both are post-pubescent. 

and have you seen the teen girls in this game? sure, the proportions aren't as extreme as they will be when they age to YA, but you can still give them big tits and big asses. 

I just think it's kinda stupid that a mod revolving around "wicked whims" decides randomly to exclude sex from teens, Teenagers have sex! my sister knew more about how to have sex at 15 than I ever did at that age. 

have you seen teenagers these days? You gotta be real careful because 13-16 year olds look like they're in their 20s 

Guess I'll be redownloading the July 27 version until Turbo either gets his head out of his ass and realizes how hypocritical he's being or another mod comes out to bypass the no teen sex thing. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Fireclawiswoot

[Flockleader]

Within High School Years the teens start getting acne and facial hair implying puberty is occurring, making them roughly 13 if real people. The problem with that is a fully developed character model that is the same height as, but slightly slimmer than, the Young Adult model.  The female teens can have fully developed breasts and hips and the male teens can grow full beards. That does not fit with real humans at all. They are also falling in love and messing around constantly, again not realistic with newly pubescent children.  The messing around animation is the same as woohoo; there just isn't an option for teen pregnancy.  The Sims 4 teens seem in all ways to be late teens, and quite capable of making relationships with adults.

This seems to be a result of the ongoing media witch hunt for paedophiles, seeing them hiding around every corner. Obviously any mod involving sex with child Sims is morally reprehensible and illegal in most countries. But with teens it really is open to interpretation and personal opinion. 

If Turbodriver is uncomfortable with teen sex that is entirely up to him as the mod creator; whilst we may be patrons we are not entitled to decide his moral stance.  He has added a work around in Inappropriate Unlock for those who want it allowing users to make their own decisions.

Ultimately, if you are unhappy with Turbodriver's choices don't use his mod.

[Fireclawiswoot]

7 minutes ago, Flockleader said:

Within High School Years the teens start getting acne and facial hair implying puberty is occurring, making them roughly 13 if real people. The problem with that is a fully developed character model that is the same height as, but slightly slimmer than, the Young Adult model.  The female teens can have fully developed breasts and hips and the male teens can grow full beards. That does not fit with real humans at all. They are also falling in love and messing around constantly, again not realistic with newly pubescent children.  The messing around animation is the same as woohoo; there just isn't an option for teen pregnancy.  The Sims 4 teens seem in all ways to be late teens, and quite capable of making relationships with adults.

This seems to be a result of the ongoing media witch hunt for paedophiles, seeing them hiding around every corner. Obviously any mod involving sex with child Sims is morally reprehensible and illegal in most countries. But with teens it really is open to interpretation and personal opinion. 

If Turbodriver is uncomfortable with teen sex that is entirely up to him as the mod creator; whilst we may be patrons we are not entitled to decide his moral stance.  He has added a work around in Inappropriate Unlock for those who want it allowing users to make their own decisions.

Ultimately, if you are unhappy with Turbodriver's choices don't use his mod.

 That would make sense if the teens in this game LOOKED like newly pubescent children AKA if they actually changed the teen models...but they just don't. They don't look like 13-14 year olds, and they never have. This can be blamed on the likely fact that there never really were plans to have interactive schools in the sims and the fact that there is no distinction between the "child" age and the "teen" age. Sims go from being roughly 6-10 years old in the child stage to immediately being roughly 16-17 if the teen model is anything to go on. Also doesn't help that sims have no height variety and teen/YA/and adult sims are all the same height and they function in basically the same way, the only things teens aren't allowed to do is have sex, get pregnant and get jobs, all things, ironically, teens do irl. 

[Kerrigan001]

10 minutes ago, Fireclawiswoot said:

 That would make sense if the teens in this game LOOKED like newly pubescent children AKA if they actually changed the teen models...but they just don't. They don't look like 13-14 year olds, and they never have. This can be blamed on the likely fact that there never really were plans to have interactive schools in the sims and the fact that there is no distinction between the "child" age and the "teen" age. Sims go from being roughly 6-10 years old in the child stage to immediately being roughly 16-17 if the teen model is anything to go on. Also doesn't help that sims have no height variety and teen/YA/and adult sims are all the same height and they function in basically the same way, the only things teens aren't allowed to do is have sex, get pregnant and get jobs, all things, ironically, teens do irl. 

 

It specifically says you're starting puberty when you get your first acne breakout. 'But she looked older, officer!' won't work anymore!(joking) What you have to do now is tag the teen as post-pubescent(out of puberty) and enable teen sex and you're good to go. 

 

[Husk]

21 hours ago, Croma76 said:

With the new update, seems that the new sim girl at school is an lesbian, but all before that you can make a male/female sim fall in love with the same gender (and have sex with WW)

Why now the change???

You do realize that sexual orientations are now a base game feature, that's been added in the latest release of the game?

[GrimGirl]

I'm sorry but people who say that pop  up about teens starting to get acne and body hair saying it means they are pre-pubescent are just wrong. That pop up is basically just making the player aware that the new features are happening and that you now have to take care of those needs as well. Teens are still obviously 17 or older. 

[SticksStackStuck]

18 hours ago, GrimGirl said:

Teens are still obviously 17 or older. 

 

To me or you, possibly, but are teen obviously 17 and up to Patreon, AE and other companies dependent on having a squeaky clean image? We all need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture here and remember that we do not have the power to define what's what in this case.

Edited August 7, 2022 by SticksStackStuck

[ColonolNutty]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:15 AM, MrGrey said:

Not really.  Base game had woohoo for adults and fooling around for teens. WW had teen-teen sex vs adult sex. You needed WickedAssistant's inappropriate unlock to cross the teen-teen line. Not a part of either Patreon or Public version.

 

The difference is that before, it was easy to excuse it as consensual sex making the (lame) claim that the teens were 18 or 19 per the EA unspoken fig leaf of an excuse.

 

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens. No way can you pretend that they're of the age of majority. Now it's all statutory rape like.

 

Turbo makes the mod, it's his mod. I don't recommend any other option at this point.  The "work around" is the inappropriate unlock, where you can make teens past puberty.

Actually, Teen Sims were available from the public release from the get go. The Inappropriate Unlock was solely available for those downloading from Patreon.

[hahahahhahaauudgi]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:15 PM, MrGrey said:

Not really.  Base game had woohoo for adults and fooling around for teens. WW had teen-teen sex vs adult sex. You needed WickedAssistant's inappropriate unlock to cross the teen-teen line. Not a part of either Patreon or Public version.

 

The difference is that before, it was easy to excuse it as consensual sex making the (lame) claim that the teens were 18 or 19 per the EA unspoken fig leaf of an excuse.

 

Well, High School smashed that by making pre- pubecent teens. No way can you pretend that they're of the age of majority. Now it's all statutory rape like.

 

Turbo makes the mod, it's his mod. I don't recommend any other option at this point.  The "work around" is the inappropriate unlock, where you can make teens past puberty.

This is objectively untrue though. Maxis actually makes the claim for teen sims being 18 years old even more powerful than ever with the High School Pack. Teen sims having acne means they aren't pre-pubescent (acne happens during and after puberty which can literally last until someone is 20 years old) and the high school pack is clearly based off of American High School in which the sims experience the equivalent of an American High School Senior Year where most people are 18 years old during events such as Prom. It isn't even close to statutory rape because these teens are shown to be about 18 years old. If Turbo wanted to disable Teen - Adult relationships that would be so understandable, but the morality and realism of this mod are not their main concerns, they saw what the response was to that google doc about ColonolNutty and Turbo is now afraid they will eventually be attacked for previously allowing incest and teen - adult relationships in their mods. Which I am not here to debate about ColonolNutty, but I must say that what they modded is way more graphic and exact than anything Turbo has touched (that I'm aware of) and honestly this whole thing is just disappointing because Turbo coders have admitted to putting in game breaking code and Turbo recently has ruined everyone's old save files which a recent version of Wicked Whims. I just find the whole thing disappointing and completely unnecessary. Colonol Nutty hasn't touched the bad mods in a few years, which makes calling him out now pointless especially when the person knew about it when Nutty was active, and Turbo has done nothing that can be considered close to what Nutty has done, yet he still fears for his reputation as the internet has a tendency to snowball these types of events.

[hahahahhahaauudgi]

On 8/7/2022 at 4:50 AM, SticksStackStuck said:

 

To me or you, possibly, but are teen obviously 17 and up to Patreon, AE and other companies dependent on having a squeaky clean image? We all need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture here and remember that we do not have the power to define what's what in this case.

Patreon would then have to ban all content in relation with The Sims 4 because Teens can mess around which is just WooHoo which is just sex. Patreon would never touch it because it is such a slippery slope, in my opinion this has more to do with the recent ColonolNutty drama than anything.

[SticksStackStuck]

9 hours ago, hahahahhahaauudgi said:

Patreon would then have to ban all content in relation with The Sims 4 because Teens can mess around which is just WooHoo which is just sex. Patreon would never touch it because it is such a slippery slope, in my opinion this has more to do with the recent ColonolNutty drama than anything.

 

The difference is graphical depiction of sex with what is diegetic underage subjects. You can get away with claiming that the sims messing around are just kissing, not so with WW. That bit should be obvious, right?

The moderators have kindly asked us not to dust of the nutty drama, so I'll refrain from commenting on it.

Edited August 9, 2022 by SticksStackStuck

[WhiteGloveSociety]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:52 AM, GrimGirl said:

I'm sorry but people who say that pop  up about teens starting to get acne and body hair saying it means they are pre-pubescent are just wrong. That pop up is basically just making the player aware that the new features are happening and that you now have to take care of those needs as well. Teens are still obviously 17 or older. 

Perhaps, features in the new pack also make every student a Senior, since they're all going to Prom, but I also want to add that taking HRT can give you acne and voicecracks well into adulthood, regardless of if the person has an endocrine disorder or is transgender/suffers from gender dysphoria. Arguably, the puberty feature makes sense regardless of teen+

[MsVixen9]

So, I'm for the most part a lurker hanging out mostly in the downloads section, but I stumbled on an article awhile ago, that I found again and think some of you here also probably find interesting in regards to the recent WW/HS/teen update. It's an article and interview with Turbodriver from 2017 when he started to make notable bucks on WW, and it's interesting to see how things evolve.  

 

Although I personally don't necessarily agree with all of Turbos reasoning for the teen changes, and the way it was done, I think it's fair. His mod, his livelihood. 

It is interesting though to read how Turbo viewed both teen sex (adults romancing teens even) and incest in WW five years ago. 

 

From 2017-article "Modder Makes $4000 A Month Adding A Lot Of Sex To The Sims 4 (NSFW)": 

 

 

Quote

 

Since WickedWhims appeared to be the definitive sex mod for The Sims 4, some people hung all of their expectations on it, especially since the whole thing is crowdfunded. When the public funds a thing, they expect to be heard, after all. Sexual preferences, of course, are highly personal. What one person thinks is incredibly hot might appear completely off-limits to someone else. WickedWhims includes controversial inclusions, such as incest and allowing adults to romance teenagers.

“What happens is that some suggestions have people against adding them and then I become the person that decides what is right and what is wrong,” Turbodriver said. “I have to approve of your sexual fantasies.” It’s a heavy role, though Turbodriver takes it in stride.

 

“The Sims is a sandbox game where the player has the freedom to do whatever they want and come up with any scenarios they want,” Turbodriver said. “The game is designed to offer tools which allow for interacting with the world and a mod has to do the same. I focus on creating tools that extend the possibilities.

“With that point of view, it’s important to understand how far you can go with a set of options. Adult or teen, male or female, parent or sibling, there are many combinations, but [they are things that can happen as] role-play. It’s like popular incest porn, you know it’s [pretend]…It doesn’t interest me what people do in their games, it’s up to them how they use the tools I give them.”

 

There are boundaries, though. The mod does not permit sex with kids. “I have to be aware of the possibilities I open up, so if I wouldn’t agree with something, I would block it,” Turbodriver said. “For example, anything related to children would be simply wrong and painfully unambiguous with its purpose,” Turbodriver said.

 

 

I recommend reading the whole article, it brings good context to also remember and see the business side of this. Turbodriver is currently listed as number 7 on Patreons rankings for most popular adult game by number of patreons/supporters (see link here and full list/ranking here). Fun fact number 1 on that list is DarkCookie who creates a game called Summertime Saga, where the main character is a guy who goes to school and the object seems to be to have sex with various characters he interacts with, some of them at school. 

[hahahahhahaauudgi]

16 hours ago, SticksStackStuck said:

 

The difference is graphical depiction of sex with what is diegetic underage subjects. You can get away with claiming that the sims messing around are just kissing, not so with WW. That bit should be obvious, right?

The moderators have kindly asked us not to dust of the nutty drama, so I'll refrain from commenting on it.

Didn't know mods asked that, but I do think at the end of the day thats the source of this issue. I get the just kissing thing, but its the same animation and function as woohoo minus pregnancy which makes that line a little more defined, but to me its still very blurred. I don't think Patreon would take any action against Turbo though because they allow some crazy stuff on that website lmao.

[SticksStackStuck]

1 hour ago, hahahahhahaauudgi said:

Didn't know mods asked that, but I do think at the end of the day thats the source of this issue. I get the just kissing thing, but its the same animation and function as woohoo minus pregnancy which makes that line a little more defined, but to me its still very blurred. I don't think Patreon would take any action against Turbo though because they allow some crazy stuff on that website lmao.

 

Turbo has to navigate both Patreon, EA and public perception. He may have erred on the side of caution, but better that than the whole mod getting the boot.

[schmothrow]

this is the most mind-numbingly stupid controversy I've lived through since people tried to get angry about having sex with aliens in mass effect. 

Has everyone forgotten what a video game is? What dimension have I fallen into and how do I get out? I thought we passed through the "video games aren't real" gate way back with GTA San Andreas. smhwlmfao

Every topic keeps falling to this argument "well you see they're not actually children because..." as though it matters because, again, none of this is real. 

I've even seen people unironically talking about characters in the sims "consenting" to sex. 

whatever, it's probably for the best. maintaining this game/mod with the constant updates has been a pain in the ass and my animation folder is taking up too much space. 

[SticksStackStuck]

4 hours ago, schmothrow said:

Has everyone forgotten what a video game is? What dimension have I fallen into and how do I get out? I thought we passed through the "video games aren't real" gate way back with GTA San Andreas.

 

This is of course true. However, depiction of CP (digital or otherwise) is prohibited, and is likely to get Patreon, EA and others fired up. If EA wants to, Wicked Whims is a thing of the past. If someone start spamming Patreon with accusation CP accusation against WW, they're going to yank the funding. This thing is about how WW is being viewed externally, not whether pixels were hurt.

[SysGhost]

6 hours ago, schmothrow said:

this is the most mind-numbingly stupid controversy I've lived through since people tried to get angry about having sex with aliens in mass effect. 

Has everyone forgotten what a video game is? What dimension have I fallen into and how do I get out? I thought we passed through the "video games aren't real" gate way back with GTA San Andreas. smhwlmfao

Every topic keeps falling to this argument "well you see they're not actually children because..." as though it matters because, again, none of this is real. 

I've even seen people unironically talking about characters in the sims "consenting" to sex. 

whatever, it's probably for the best. maintaining this game/mod with the constant updates has been a pain in the ass and my animation folder is taking up too much space. 

While I agree with you to an extend.

In another topic (that has been locked now), TD made a bit more of an explanation, and it seems to be more of a precaution move more then anything.

Like the person above me said, alot of platforms are very protective and will shut WW down if any claims of CP are made.