Conversion to Form 44

[shebop]

As I prepare to launch my first true play-through of SSE, Several of my Sexlab mods are form 43 (Skyrim LE form version.  Examples include Sexlab Add Actor, Sexlab Aroused) and mods using form 43 are known to randomly cause crashes  (depending on their content).   Is it safe to load these mods into Creation Kit and resave to form 44 without modification?  

Edited June 26, 2022 by shebop

[wulfy1]

This is a good essay/investigation for Form43 versus Form44.  https://davidjcobb.github.io/skyrim-writings/articles/form-versions-43-and-44.html

 

I have been running Form43 mods since SE switch-over very early on, and I almost never run into problems that I could attribute to a difference in forms.  I switch over when the dev makes a Form44 version, or when the overwritten data comes from a Form44 Master, otherwise I leave it alone.

[Gukahn]

20 minutes ago, shebop said:

mods using form 43 are known to randomly cause crashes 

like already said but let me make it a bit clearer: utter Bullshit made up by people who don't know Shit. In over 90% of cases, Form 43 won't make you Crash. The number of mods really need to be 44 isn't high. Would like to know why people still believe fairy tails.

Coming from Someone who runs a Shitload of form 43 mods and never crashes

 

Also, if it were a Problem, why do you think nobody makes converted Esps for all the mods down in the SE section?

Edited June 26, 2022 by Gukahn

[Fotogen]

5 hours ago, shebop said:

  (depending on their content)

ESP form 43, so LE skyrim, will not crash Skyrim SE (or AE). No. Never.

 

But LE mods that contains mesh, files with *.nif extension, do need to be converted. And *.hkx (animations). Theres a program, Cathedral something, that can do that for you.

 

 

[shebop]

Ok, first of all,  none of you answered my question.  Second, instead, most of you criticize others for "utter bullshit" and yet some of you have implied, or explicitly admitted that in 10% of cases, a mod with form 43 can cause a crash in SSE.  I have personal experience dealing with the differences between the records between form versions as an author of an as of yet unreleased mod managing and conversion tool.   So please don't say "No. Never".  Fact is, it happens.  In addition, a trusted troubleshooting guide (which has been right about my other current problems) confirms this is the case.  To quote the article that wuffy1 linked above "Version 43 data is only harmful in specific situations. It's not radioactive in the way that much of the community seems to believe."  This is why the linked troubleshooting guide refers to seemingly "random crashes" only. 

 

I had over 40 mods that were in form 43.  So statistically 4 of them would cause problems (using numbers given in this conversation).   I know that many mods will do fine without the conversion but I want to minimize "random crashes" which are already occurring in my play-testing of the load order I am building.  I also want to minimize the risk of any other potential problems that non-conversion may bring.  

 

So I will ask again "Is it safe to load these mods into Creation Kit and resave to form 44 without modification?"  Theoretically the answer to that question is yes as it will update the records to use the correct format.  However, I am just making sure that no one has had BAD experiences doing this with SL mods.

Edited June 27, 2022 by shebop

[Just Don't]

14 minutes ago, shebop said:

"Is it safe to load these mods into Creation Kit and resave to form 44 without modification?"

No. Some records can be altered in unintended ways when you save them in CK, even if all you do is re-saving them. Unless you 100% know what you're doing and check against the original plugin to confirm no unintended changes are made in the process, there is no way to guarantee that it'll be safe to re-save them. There, that's your absolute one-fit-all answer.

 

16 minutes ago, shebop said:

Second, instead, most of you criticize others for "utter bullshit" and yet some of you have implied, or explicitly admitted that in 10% of cases, a mod with form 43 can cause a crash in SSE.

Not mods that have been out for years as ports with plugins in form 43 still. These would have been causing literally thousands of issues. And we haven't seen much of that reported. The opposite is true though, there was a time where every mod was re-saved and people quickly reported issues, problems were tracked to re-saved plugins and today these are ported mods with plugins in form 43 working fine.

[yorpers]

1 hour ago, Just Don't said:

No. Some records can be altered in unintended ways when you save them in CK, even if all you do is re-saving them. Unless you 100% know what you're doing and check against the original plugin to confirm no unintended changes are made in the process, there is no way to guarantee that it'll be safe to re-save them. There, that's your absolute one-fit-all answer.

I don't doubt you here, but can you provide any actual use case for this? I don't mean to doubt you or put you on the spot but I would like to know of a case where this is true for my own reference and knowledge base. In my own experience porting mods in a problematic way have no relation to the forms. It is almost always some kind of mesh or texture error.

[Just Don't]

10 hours ago, yorpers said:

I don't doubt you here, but can you provide any actual use case for this? I don't mean to doubt you or put you on the spot but I would like to know of a case where this is true for my own reference and knowledge base. In my own experience porting mods in a problematic way have no relation to the forms. It is almost always some kind of mesh or texture error.

There was a bit of discussion about this in the SE Tracking thread around 2 years ago. A quick search gives me these examples. After that some ports reverted to using the form 43 plugin and have stayed as such.

Spoiler

 

 

There is also a technical and very detailed explanation in the article wulfy linked. Check the section titled "What goes wrong when we re-save a weapon?" for an example (and the 3 sections above it for context if you feel like reading).

[yorpers]

1 minute ago, Just Don't said:

There was a bit of discussion about this in the SE Tracking thread around 2 years ago. A quick search gives me these examples. After that some ports reverted to using the form 43 plugin and have stayed as such.

 

2 minutes ago, Just Don't said:

There is also a technical and very detailed explanation in the article wulfy linked. Check the section titled "What goes wrong when we re-save a weapon?" for an example (and the 3 sections above it for context if you feel like reading).

 

Thanks, I'll take a close look through these.

[shebop]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:12 PM, Just Don't said:

No. Some records can be altered in unintended ways when you save them in CK, even if all you do is re-saving them. Unless you 100% know what you're doing and check against the original plugin to confirm no unintended changes are made in the process, there is no way to guarantee that it'll be safe to re-save them. There, that's your absolute one-fit-all answer.

 

Not mods that have been out for years as ports with plugins in form 43 still. These would have been causing literally thousands of issues. And we haven't seen much of that reported. The opposite is true though, there was a time where every mod was re-saved and people quickly reported issues, problems were tracked to re-saved plugins and today these are ported mods with plugins in form 43 working fine.

Thanks for this.  It is helpful and was the kind of info I was looking for.  I am technically minded so it helps to have a reasonable explanation.  Thanks especially the info you gave yorpers.

Edited July 2, 2022 by shebop