BHUNP-CBPC Not working

[Myst42]

Not sure if this is the right section since the other physics forum is listed under Legendary Edition, and the issue I'm having is on SE

 

So here's the thing, I tried updating to the latest versions of BHUNP (3.11) and CBPC (1.5)

And the result is none of them is working as intended.

 

For the sake of understanding, here's some definitions:

• 3BBB: equippable models (nif files) that use 3 pairs of breast bones
• TBBP/BBP: equippable models that use 1 or 2 pairs of breast bones (different from the 3bbb ones)
• CBPC: physics system, controls mostly BBP/TBBP models, but upon installing BHUNP/3BA there's files that also make 3bbb models have CBPC physics
• SMP: physics system, more advanced, but can only control 3bbb breast models, it's also used for skirts and other dangly parts of outfits. It's also worth mentioning that BHUNP/3BA have an in-game plugin that enables this system as "SMP mode" by pressing the default (+) key, configurable via MCM

 

In order to test my settings I tend to try differently rigged outfits and the results are:

With latest BHUNP-CBPC

• BBP/TBBP models just dont work and have no physics at all
• 3BBB models have working CBPC physics, but the SMP mode (+ key) does nothing, so technically, SMP physics are not working either.

 

With latest BHUNP + Older CBPC

• Game just crashes on start

 

With Older BHUNP + Newest CBPC

• BBP/TBBP models do work, which means CBPC is doing its job
• 3BBB models also seem to work, but upon changing to SMP mode (+) breasts begin to auto-vibrate, which might be the effect of CBPC and SMP physics getting overlapped and trying to compete at the same time for control of the body physics.

 

With Older Both

• BBP/TBBP models work, but I get exaggerated jiggle which results in ugly jiggle deformations that do not look natural in game
• 3BBB models seem to be the most OK with this setting, being able to use CBPC physics and have them look decent, and switch to SMP mode with noticeable visual changes that look like actual improvements.

 

I guess I'm asking if anyone has had similar issues, because I keep hearing about people for who "it just works" and only seen rumors about those of us who haven't been so lucky.

Is this latest version  of BHUNP just wrong or am I missing some install wizardry? I'm especially concerned by the fact that with latest versions, CBPC just ceases to do anything for BBP/TBBP models

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Myst42

[bnub345]

There are some issues between the new CBPC and SMP, you need to disable the CBPC for any body parts that you want to toggle SMP on. There are toggles on the BHUNP MCM page. As for the bodies with less than 3 breast bones, I'm not surprised they don't work. They were pretty much outdated by 3BBB and I doubt baka bothers to update them any more. You can ask him I guess, but he doesn't often respond unless you're a patreon sub.  

[Myst42]

8 minutes ago, bnub345 said:

There are some issues between the new CBPC and SMP, you need to disable the CBPC for any body parts that you want to toggle SMP on. There are toggles on the BHUNP MCM page. As for the bodies with less than 3 breast bones, I'm not surprised they don't work. They were pretty much outdated by 3BBB and I doubt baka bothers to update them any more. You can ask him I guess, but he doesn't often respond unless you're a patreon sub.  

Outdated!?

Jeez...

I know those are the older system, but there's still a lot of older mods that were created with the old bones, and it shouldn't be a thing that newer versions are incompatible with older stuff. I thought the purpose was to build better things on top, not ruin backwards compatibility. Especially since some of the older mods that use those bones, are not always being updated to newer standards.

 

Anyway, thank you very much for pointing me to the MCM. I didn't bother to check changes on it before, but now I see the option, and at least, toggling between CBPC to SMP is working as it should on newest.

[Vyxenne]

First off, some relevant definitions:

• HDT-SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics) means the Bullet Physics system pioneered for Oldrim by HydrogensaysHDT, a Chinese mod creator of unquestionable talents, along with derivatives and improvements wrought by Aers (srea here on LL), Karonar1 and now a team of others, culminating in FSMP (Faster SMP), the only SMP version that works well in Skyrim AE (all versions 1.6.xxx.)
• Body Physics means physics and collisions of any body part (excluding hair/wigs) e.g. breasts, belly, butt, labia, scrota, phalli, front/rear thighs and calves, etc.
• Cloth Physics means physics and collisions of Chargen hairstyles and any equippable physics-capable item, e.g. wigs, earrings, necklaces, capes, armor, clothing, etc.
• All Skyrim (LE, SE, AE, VR) Body mod-replaced female bodies, i.e. CBBE-LE, CBBE-SE, CBBE-3BA, UNPx, UUNP, 7Bx, TBD and all other bodies equipped with at least one breast bone, support at least breast physics
• All physics-capable bodies are physics-engine agnostic- they don't "care" whether any particular node is jiggled via CBPC or SMP. Any body that will jiggle with SMP will also jiggle with CBPC and vice-versa. The only caveat is that the user must be careful that no body part is controlled by more than one physics engine- configuring both CBPC and SMP for Breast Physics is a recipe for disaster.
•  

Some of your definitions/assumptions seem a bit off to me-

• Both HDT-SMP and CBPC, properly configured via their respective xml/ini config files, can handle any and all Body Physics and collisions
• Any body replacer mod labeled "HDT" and/or with any variant of the acronym "BBP" or just the letters "BB" in upper case (e.g. "BBP," "TBBP," "3BBB" etc. plus "3BA") is capable of at least breast physics regardless of whether one uses CBPC, SMP or even HDT-PE (old Havok physics found only in Oldrim, requires completely different xml's than SMP) as the physics engine.
• In addition to Body Physics/collisions, HDT-SMP can handle any and all Cloth Physics and collisions.
• Although Shizof plans to provide it in the future, as of today, CBPC cannot handle Cloth Physics or collisions.

 

My reason for trying to provide some clarity and minor corrections to what you posted is to get to this: it's your configs. There is no other likely reason for your issues, assuming of course that you have correctly installed CBPC and Baka's BHUNP- I run a 400+ mod (SSE 1.5.97) game with SMP handling breast, hair and Cloth Physics, while CBPC handles my other BHUNP-3BBB body parts and SoS goodies. It all works perfectly together, and I'm able to maintain 60fps almost everywhere despite physics everything and multiple followers with physics hair, earrings and pendants in addition to full body physics.

 

The only time it quit working on me was when I updated CBPC to 1.5.0 and then BHUNP to 3.10, adding the 3.11 patch. Apparently, I was daydreaming during the installs *cough*PEBCAK*cough* because when I went in-game I found no butt physics (CBPC) or hair physics (SMP). So I just reinstalled BHUNP, making sure to give BHUNP's CBPC configs priority over the CBPC-installed config files (BHUNP has its own CBPC configs to install if you let it) and then let Vortex handle it from there. I rechecked to make sure that the priority rules were correct and went in-game, where I found that It Just Works™ again.

 

TL; DR: Reinstall BHUNP and pay attention to the choices you make, then give BHUNP priority over CBPC.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Vyxenne
Because she needs very little justification to throw PEBCAK into a post

[Myst42]

Uhh... I assume your intention is to help, and it's appreciated, but honestly your post is making things more confusing instead.?

 

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

• Both HDT-SMP and CBPC, properly configured via their respective xml/ini config files, can handle any and all Body Physics and collisions

Sure, but not everyone knows how to edit xmls and what they do. I had a big struggle to understand LE xmls, and SE ones are new to me. Without extended knowledge of xmls, messing with the installers and hoping they work is all users have

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Any body replacer mod labeled "HDT" and/or with any variant of the acronym "BBP" or just the letters "BB" in upper case (e.g. "BBP," "TBBP," "3BBB" etc. plus "3BA") is capable of at least breast physics regardless of whether one uses CBPC, SMP or even HDT-PE (old Havok physics found only in Oldrim, requires completely different xml's than SMP) as the physics engine.

I dont see how this is relevant to the installers per se. I mentioned the difference between 3BBB and BBP/TBBP is the bones they use which it is. Now the bones are set to be controlled by one or the other physics system. Could they be controlled by the one that's not the regular? Sure, but that's not how it comes with the installers. Default options are guiding the user to have 3BBB rigged models controlled by SMP physics and AFAIK there is no SMP controller xml for BBP/TBBP. Could it exist? Yeah, but again, it's not on the installer

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

In addition to Body Physics/collisions, HDT-SMP can handle any and all Cloth Physics and collisions.

Already mentioned on the first post, but it's irrelevant to the case since it's not cloth physics what I'm having issues with so far.

 

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Although Shizof plans to provide it in the future, as of today, CBPC cannot handle Cloth Physics or collisions.

Also irrelevant to the present subject. Good to know I guess, hope it works well.

 

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

My reason for trying to provide some clarity and minor corrections to what you posted is to get to this: it's your configs

I did nothing that wasn't available on the installers. And I also tried various combinations of options, as well as a few tries where I didn't change any options and just installed everything with the default selections. Attempts aside, desired settings have a tendency.

 

I avoided all gravity and pushup options

I went with smaller breast sizes like C and D cup, realistic jiggle options etc...

I set up the "hybrid" option which has a picture detailing that breasts should be SMP controlled and all other body parts would be CBPC

It's established now that SMP is working as well as CBPC for 3BBB models, and I was just missing to look for an option.

BBP/TBBP jiggles still dont work.

 

2 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

TL; DR: Reinstall BHUNP and pay attention to the choices you make, then give BHUNP priority over CBPC.

Already done this numerous times and on different choices

 

If it really is my configs, I would've hoped to have already found the correct install options after so many tries.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Myst42

[chajapa]

I have a similar issue, but maybe not quite as completely FUBARed as the OP. I have the AE version, not downgraded (beginning to regret that).

BHUNP latest version and the patch from 3.10 to 3.11. CBPC latest version.

This is a typical scenario:

I was running a game today and everything was working fine.

Exited game, went into MO2 and installed Better Khajiit Female textures. (I was near a khajiit camp when I exited and noticed how awful the stock textures look.)

Went back in game... none of the morphs work for BHUNP. They're THERE in Racemenu, but the sliders have no effect. My mod uses morphs. I built the .tri files when I build the BHUNP bodies. It's been working and I haven't changed them and I checked to be sure nothing is overwriting them. The morphs just stop working on the female NPCs and followers.

 

If I "showracemenu" and change something on my male player character, the sliders work. This issue with the morphs isn't just in BHUNP. 

 

I installed CBBE (keeping things nicely separated), and got that working with CBPC and the racemenu morphs for CBBE. Start another game, grab one follower that uses whatever body you have installed. She works (this is with CBBE). Morphs work. Everything works. Grab another follower for whom I had to copy the body meshes into her folder. Morphs stop working. Not just on the new follower. On anyone.

 

And the only way to get them working again seems to be reinstalling the body, whether it's BHUNP or CBBE. I don't *think* it's CBPC because all the jiggly bits still jiggle. So how is this disconnect happening? The .tri files are there. The racemenuMorphs for whatever body is in use are there, but ... they don't work. I'm getting really frustrated with SE/AE over this. Ok, that, and I can't get CK to compile anything. I'm at a point where I'm going to uninstall SE, and start from scratch. And maybe this time do the downgrade back from AE to SE. This is maddening.

 

[Vyxenne]

22 hours ago, Myst42 said:

It's established now that SMP is working as well as CBPC for 3BBB models, and I was just missing to look for an option.

Yay! Glad you found the problem.

 

 

On 5/26/2022 at 8:26 PM, bnub345 said:

As for the bodies with less than 3 breast bones, I'm not surprised they don't work. They were pretty much outdated by 3BBB and I doubt baka bothers to update them any more.

The older bodies with only one breast bone per side do work- as I mentioned above, I don't know specifically which bodies the OP (or you) have with BBP/TBBP breast bones, but I don't remember ever seeing a mod-added BBP body with breast bones named anything other than "NPC L Breast" and "NPC R Breast," and the BHUNP configs include those old bones for backwards compatibility. So as long as you're using the BHUNP-supplied xml's and they override the CBPC files you should be getting BBP/TBBP physics on those older bodies- I'm getting breast (and butt, belly and vagina) physics on my UUNP-Reference clothing just fine.

[Myst42]

On 5/28/2022 at 2:44 AM, Vyxenne said:

The older bodies with only one breast bone per side do work- as I mentioned above, I don't know specifically which bodies the OP (or you) have with BBP/TBBP breast bones, but I don't remember ever seeing a mod-added BBP body with breast bones named anything other than "NPC L Breast" and "NPC R Breast," and the BHUNP configs include those old bones for backwards compatibility. So as long as you're using the BHUNP-supplied xml's and they override the CBPC files you should be getting BBP/TBBP physics on those older bodies- I'm getting breast (and butt, belly and vagina) physics on my UUNP-Reference clothing just fine.

Now this is precisely the problem.

 

They Dont.

 

At least not for me. Thanks to bnub345 suggestion I found the option to properly use 3BBB-SMP, but BBP/TBBP is still not working on my end.

The names of the bones you wrote, are indeed the ones that are used on BBP/TBBP settings, and they used to move normally for me using older versions of BHUNP. But now they don't.

I have a few more things to check since I haven't looked at the rest of the issue for a couple of days, been doing other things. I got a suggestion from CBPC's author to use the xmls provided there, maybe that makes a difference.

 

On 5/27/2022 at 10:17 AM, chajapa said:

Also, that sounds way worse that my jiggle issues.

Wish I had a suggestion for that, but never seen morphs stop working. Only seen it happen with missing tri files, but you already checked that

Edited May 30, 2022 by Myst42

[Serarui]

Hello, did you download Bhunp 3.32? There is no breast physics .(Bhunp 3.32 LE) Did you  encounter this problem?

[Vyxenne]

All BHUNP bodies have breast bones, which are the only body-mesh requirements for breast physics. If you don't see boobs jiggling then there may be something wrong with your BHUNP installation (the version number you cited seems to be for Oldrim) or your Physics engine installation. Is breast physics the only thing not working, i.e. do you have butt, belly and thigh physics? It would be very helpful if you would provide more details- Game version number? SKSE version number? SMP Physics engine name and version number?