Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 stealing is bad, but file sharing is not stealing. so how many anime pictures, or music files. or backgrounds or memes that you've save to your comp? gild wars 2 i belive hasnt been pirated yet but im not sure. im just saying, if you check homany people have download the CK. why would they download it if not to USE it? im just saying just cuz its illegal dosnt make it bad (not saying piracy is good, butit not as bad as legal skrewing over poor innocent people. but yea this is geting away from the copyright point. so whahttp://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/03/19/drm-hurts-companies-more-than-piracy-developer-argues/e game. stealing is wrong yes, the intent isnt always bad, how ever; file sharing is not stealing. thats just my point.
Thulas Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 stealing is bad, but file sharing is not stealing. stealing is wrong yes, the intent isnt always bad, how ever; file sharing is not stealing. thats just my point. That is a problem we two can't discuss since none of us is a lawyer; even then it would be hard, since the internet is a grey field, neither black nor white. There are points for both, either sharing is stealing or not. Your points don't convince me, neither do mine convince you. We won't get a consens here. so how many anime pictures, or music files. or backgrounds or memes that you've save to your comp? Shouldn't be the quesion if I have the right to use them as background, etc? It seems you sometimes forget that there is a difference between having the permission to share a file or not. gild wars 2 i belive hasnt been pirated yet but im not sure. That was rhetorical. And with a "not sure" an example won't become better. im just saying, if you check homany people have download the CK. And how many of them downloaded illegaly? Or how illegal is it to share a free file you got permission to share? im just saying just cuz its illegal dosnt make it bad (not saying piracy is good, butit not as bad as legal skrewing over poor innocent people. but yea this is geting away from the copyright point. Still an important point, since it's somewhat the base of what we are talking about. If you do something illegal, you hurt the agreement between all citizen of your country. By being a citizen yourself you agreed to the law. Hurting it or the agreement of others is bad.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 this is kinda interesting, 50/50. http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-piracy-be-legal im thinking of making a poll here see what the bigger opinion is xD sence there's over 100 views but only 3 people posting. maybe if its a poll itll get more comments xD
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 i dont abide by that, im an illegal alien, im from mars x3 no mind may have been changed but ill admit you made me ponder a few things. that on of the point of debates xD
Thulas Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 In Germany there was found a relatively new party; "Die Piraten". Making piracy legal was one of their main aspects; I am not sure if they even are in the Bundestag anymore. Would you kindly comment following? Or how illegal is it to share a free file you got permission to share? EDIT: that on of the point of debates xD Oh, don't be ridiculous, the point of a debate rarely is to get his own oppinion into the head of the other. Point is that you give others a reason to think twice and also don't let your own point of view getting inscripted in stone. At least in this modern era, the anicent greek debate was for political decisions.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 thats kinda obvious. why must i comment on it?
Thulas Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Because it seems that this is the point your oppinion might be a bit twisted. And I not only ment that quote itself but the whole thing around it. Could have made that clearer.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 personally i dont think anything that dosent HURT, kill or physically remove something from someone should be a crime. and piracy prolly wouldnt be a problem if the davs took a diffrent approach to it. take spore for example; buy it and you can only download it 3 or so times. this makes it so say someone downloads it the 3 times for bugs so they have to reinstall it or changes comp. this makes people angry and makes pirating MORE. xbox 1, gotta be online and bs, makes people angry people buy less and pirate more. make a game that is GOOD dont put limits on it and instead of saying shit like, 'piracy is just like going to the store and stealing from a baby" or some bs, put an advertisement basically saying "if you like it, support us!" the more you try to criminalize something or bar it up to keep it safe, is just gonna make it madder and fight harder. causing more 'profit los' and everything else. same point i brought up with the county that decriminalized drugs. it stoped drug use and instead of making people go to jail, they helped them get clean. also, some pirate so they can try the game as to not be dissapointed, like a demo (but most demos suck and dont show enough) so if insted of like 1/100th of a game being demo, make it where you can try the full game for a serten about of days.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 In Germany there was found a relatively new party; "Die Piraten". Making piracy legal was one of their main aspects; I am not sure if they even are in the Bundestag anymore. Would you kindly comment following? Or how illegal is it to share a free file you got permission to share? EDIT: that on of the point of debates xD Oh, don't be ridiculous, the point of a debate rarely is to get his own oppinion into the head of the other. Point is that you give others a reason to think twice and also don't let your own point of view getting inscripted in stone. At least in this modern era, the anicent greek debate was for political decisions. you've made me ponder a few things, so nothing is inscripted in stone, dont be ridiculous how is answering an obvious question gonna make me think/see my opinion is skrewed?
Thulas Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 personally i dont think anything that dosent HURT,kill or physically remove something from someone should be a crime. The problem is, there are many, many way to actually hurt someone. Maybe not physically, but rigth now, I confront you with another oppinion, which means I "hurt" your personal space, I force you to think. I doubt that you sit emotionless in front of your computer right now (of course that doesn't mean you have to scream at your monitor). So this could be a crime; every human right could be one then. Society means that you partially give up your natural rights for being able to live together with millions of people. Physically is the wrong point here, since the world isn't only about material objects. and piracy prolly wouldnt be a problem if the davs took a diffrent approach to it. (...) "if you like it, support us!" There are no "good" ways to approach this. And your idea lacks the security for the developers to actually be rewarded for their work. Sure, it could work, but also it could cause the whole company to become broke. The whole society is set up as security, you as anarchist should know this. Jean-Jacques Rousseau for example saw it that way. also, some pirate so they can try the game as to not be dissapointed As I said, the intention doesn't make the action good. In fact, there are other ways to do so, legal ways. make it where you can try the full game for a serten about of days. Steam makes these kind of "free to play"-weekends for some games, but again, they have the permission to do so. A pirate who wants the actually game as a demo still is a pirate after all, isn't he?
Thulas Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 you've made me ponder a few things, so nothing is inscripted in stone, dont be ridiculous I didn't ment your oppinion specificly, but oppinions in general. With this much racists, sexists and what the hell else on the world is fed by stereotypes, I hardly belieave that these people think twice. how is answering an obvious question gonna make me think/see my opinion is skrewed? As mentioned it wasn't only about this specific question, but since there can't be a consens in that point, there actually isn't a point for that anymore, so never mind.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 i mean physicly hurt, if everyone who hurt someones feelings went to jail i dont think thered be anyone outside of jail xD no just making millions of dollers even with pirates is no reward at all. maybe but it isnt very secure anymore. if it truly had justice id think diffrently. yes things should be punished but not to the exstent as wich are now. say someone gets caught pirating, a reasonable punishment would be to make them pay the price of the game. such as? and what if they cant have steam? or dont want it?
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 were not talking about thoes people are we? this is about piracy not racisim. i WISH i knew away to make people like that atleast think twice.
Thulas Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 no just making millions of dollers even with pirates is no reward at all. Please read more carefully what I wrote, you seemed to missed the important part: "And your idea lacks the security for the developers to actually be rewarded for their work" justice Doesn't exist, never will. a reasonable punishment would be to make them pay the price of the game. The problem is that a punishment is ment to correct the behavior of the criminal. Making him pay for the game won't do that, it's too less. The right amount of punishment needs to be found, where ever it is. such as? Reading reviews for example, there are many you can read freely, there also are some at youtube. and what if they cant have steam? or dont want it? It's their problem then. This is an offer steam makes, if they can't or don't want to accept it, then they aren't allowed to completly ignore the rules of engangement (or laws). i mean physicly hurt, if everyone who hurt someones feelings went to jail i dont think thered be anyone outside of jail xD Psychosomatic. I hurt you immaterial, then it causes you to get hurt physically. So if you want everything that physical harms to be criminal, then psychological harms have to count, too. Don't forget that the ghost may or may not be part of the body; there are different oppinions on that. were not talking about thoes people are we? this is about piracy not racisim. Wrong, this was about the sake of debates.
Guest Shendar Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 over 50 views and we're the only ones posting? xD Most likely because expressing pro-piracy views is against the site rules. Despite my chaotic nature, I respect site makers and mods and will not post all my thoughts on this matter. I can say this though: concept of copyright should be scrapped completely and remade with all technological, sociological, economical and other aspects of XXI century in mind. P.S. English is not my native language, so please ignore any grammar mistakes.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 ah i was unaware of this sorry. (dosent make sence buy w/e) xD
Guest Shendar Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 ah i was unaware of this sorry. (dosent make sence buy w/e) xD Your discussion is about copyright, not piracy. I meant that more... radical opponents of copyright most likely won't post here.
Kamen Rider Kuuga Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Copyright laws are fucking snapped in half and need a serious overhaul. Something we'll never get because companies have too much money riding on extending them into multiple century long affairs and nobody in political power will dare stand for change because too much of that sweet, sweet drug we call money is being shoved into their pockets.
Skullette Posted July 2, 2013 Author Posted July 2, 2013 agreed, if copyright was more of making sure people know who the creator was instead of fining people for copying the music to share. I'd be fine. Worng. It was highly illegal what Hitler did, he just tried to let it look like it would be legal, that's what most dictators do. For example was the vote that lead the NSDAP to power was highly manipulated, they forced other MP with threads and violence to either vote for the NSDAP or not letting them appear to the vote at all (which also would result to more votes for the NSDAP). But the fact is: most people don't know. Same goes with the economy-politics of Hitler. Most think it was good, but if you take a look at the financials, he almost ruined the German economy. forgot to reply to this, i was more concerned with the piracy part. Martin Luther King’s celebrated “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” this quote is a portion. "We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers." i'd hope Martin Luther King would be a good enough source. there is how ever a difference between legal and lawful.
gregathit Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Copyright\patents\trademarks - the whole ball of wax is in definite need of an overhaul. One of the problems is companies not embracing the digital age and reorganizing their business practices to keep up. Market stress will and has forced some of this to come to a head. A prime example was the refusal of the music industry to sell anything but full albums and their refusal to make music available in digital format. Napster single-handedly broke the music industries stranglehold dragging them kicking and screaming into the digital age. It also forced them into selling individual songs rather than having folks buy the entire album for the one song they wanted. Of course........it wasn't a peaceful or even a seamless transition to digital format, but the market can indeed force some things. Another instance of a company refusing to embrace the needs of the market is Blockbuster. Where are they today? Between the Netflix and RedBox juggernauts the once all powerful Blockbuster went the way of dodo bird. Unfortunately the market can only impact some of the issues. Between lobbyists and ignorant legislators, the laws are sadly far behind the curve of technology.
RitualClarity Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Most likely because expressing pro-piracy views is against the site rules. Despite my chaotic nature, I respect site makers and mods and will not post all my thoughts on this matter. I can say this though: concept of copyright should be scrapped completely and remade with all technological, sociological, economical and other aspects of XXI century in mind. I don't see anywhere in the rules where discussing or being pro Piracy is against the rules. You just can't give or get help with Piracy on this site. Piracy is not provided here. It's not our business where you get a game, but you will not get help with piracy here, and helping somebody else pirate is strictly against the rules. Keep it to yourself. So don't give any info on how to pirate crack or otherwise compromise games, music or DVD's etc and keep to discussing the political and legal aspects of Piracy and you should be safe. My view is the Copyright process is outdated and I also believe that it needs to be remade with all technological, sociological, economical and other aspects of XXI century in mind. Opps... my bad did I just Pirate Shendar's comment ???? well not exactly it is actually Plagiarism not Pirating. Guess I have to return my peg leg now. .. Plagiarism is considered dishonest if passed off as one's own work, unlike what I done above (reading the post above one can easily tell that it was taken from the original poster as a joke, thus no attempt and subterfuge was made.) Where Pirating is theft. Plain and simple. You can rationalized it any way you want. It is theft. Taking a penny is theft. Same principle as stealing millions of dollars. However the level of theft is different. The "damages" are different thus the punishment should be different. This is where I see problems. Someone steals a song worth 0.99 cents from Apple or copies a DVD for personal use. The punishment can be thousands of dollars (each offense) and many years in jail. It is likely in some countries that an individual that pirated copyrighted materials can and would stay in jail longer than a violent criminal. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. This is the problem. This is where the laws are skewed to protect the owners of the property or idea unfairly. Punishments shouldn't be punitive in nature unless they are heinous and evil in nature. Rape, Murder, Violence, incest, child abuse, child neglect, attacks during robberies etc. Punishment should be more appropriate if needed at all. There you have another comment in all it glory...
RitualClarity Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Martin Luther King’s celebrated “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” this quote is a portion. "We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers." i'd hope Martin Luther King would be a good enough source. there is how ever a difference between legal and lawful. There is actually a difference between Legal and Moral. Hitlers might of been seen as "legal" in the country at the time however it wasn't morally correct. Cold blooded murder isn't a morally correct thing to do
lordofthedread Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Every single piracy groups (Reloaded and Fairlight to take the most common ones) will put a nice phrase saying "if you like the game please support the devs" but this is nonsense, why on earth would you buy the game after you got it? I personally try my best to support the companies that offer good games by buying the actual games and I do regret that there is no more demo games like we had before and that allowed us to actually try the games before throwing a 50 bucks in it. As for piracy itself, while giving money to editors (no matter which ones) makes me puke, the system is as it is and it wont change overnight, still if you pirate it is not only editors you are stealing from but also artists / devellopers and so on. Saying that you cant afford a game like Skyrim when you have a computer allowing you to run it (or any other modern game) is BS, if you can spend 200+$ in your GPU you can certainly spend 50 on the game itself.
Thulas Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 forgot to reply to this, i was more concerned with the piracy part. Martin Luther King’s celebrated “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” this quote is a portion. "We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers." i'd hope Martin Luther King would be a good enough source. there is how ever a difference between legal and lawful. MLK makes a serious mistake there. As I said, it wasn't legal in any way, since the vote was neither free nor secret. Keep in mind that incite to murder and warmongery aren't that legal either. But again, making everything look like it would be legit was done by every power-politican yet in history.
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