For a SSE fashion mod, what would be for you priority features ?

[Vegetius]

YPS Immersive Fashion is a great mod, but it doesn't play that well on SSE.

I'm thinking of remaking a mod with features close to it, with an emphasis on performance and customisation.

I've already done a working body hair mod on which I'd like to expand (Easy Body Hair on the nexus).

Of course, it's not imaginable to remake the impressive number of Yps features from the get go, so I'm asking the community what it feels should be done first.

If you have other features ideas, just give them, I may add them to the poll.

The idea of the poll is not to select the features that you want, but those that you want first.

[Anunya]

I voted hair growth & styling and piercing, but I consider hair growth & styling higher priority. It'd be absolutely great to get a stable, less resource intensive, less complicated to set up version of YPS for SSE.

 

For piercings, making it relatively easy to add / import piercing meshes from other mods would be great (e.g. using earrings from other mods, and repurpose them as piercings for other parts); as well having the feature work with / not clash with Devious Devices since it is used in a lot of other mods.

 

One feature I would love to have in a fashion mod is a reason to change clothes and/ or to wear different types of clothes - though that may be a whole separate mod idea I suppose.

 

In general I think it'd be great if it was written and organized so it'd be easy for other mod authors to include elements from this - i.e. it'd be great to have SubLola or DFC followers make demands about fashion, for example, though that'd obviously be up to the authors of those mods to integrate.

 

Another feature YPS has, IIRC, is high heels training. It's not a high priority from my perspective, but it's a nice feature to have.

 

Stockings is probably the lowest priority feature from my perspective.

 

Looking forward to seeing progress on this!

[chaimhewast]

The main reasons I used YPS were for the heel training and hair growth.

 

The hair growth is just a nice feature - I've used mods that tie into it (SD+ shaving slaves, SLS offering various related features through Monoman's tweaked version) and have made a habit of temporarily cheating in the debug scissors to shave my character's head when she gets arrested.

 

The heel training thing was mostly an immersion thing for me (as well as a slight balancing thing against some of Deviously Cursed Loot's armors), but nowadays it works nicely alongside SLS's bikini curse/training.

 

The stockings are nice, but I could happily just use the Equipable Stockings mod that YPS uses for its textures. Similarly, I didn't care much one way or another about the piercings, and all the supported mods were hardcoded into the ypsPiercingTicker script, so you would have to edit and recompile that to add a new one.

 

As far as Anuya's comment about wearing types of clothing - there's certainly room to play with that. Something to encourage the player to put on some nice clothes (maybe the ClothingRich keyword, or some of the Bakafactory SLA keywords) once in a while instead of staying in armor all the time.

[qalavix]

Another reason to make stockings/nylon/hose low priority (or skip them altogether) is that Slavetats has a couple of stocking packs that work darned well as 'long-term' clothing.

Unless this mod integrated with those and provided a quick on/off (by telling Slavetats to add or remove the Body and Foot tattoos as a group, with less digging through menus than Slavetats would require).

 

Likewise, nail polish is also in a Slavetats pack...  There are some models of longer nails, going out to Witch lengths. Would be Interesting to incorporate those; and wonderful (if it's even possible) to have them not take up a clothing/armor slot (since nobody agrees on any of them...  I've got a Slot32 bikini bottom and a number of Slot46 tops in my clothing).

 

With piercings, I'd like to see... something else.  In my current setup I have a 3BA body and I think DD soulgem nipple piercings, and those piercings seem to be independently boned from the actual nipple and breast.  It's really odd to see them jouncing almost opposite phase to the actual breast. Armor/clothing item nipple piercings do not have this problem.

It would be Bad if the piercings from your mod acted the same way... though I must confess, I detest facial piercings and wouldn't use them at all.

 

I'd like to see high heels training also.

 

So, IMO, the order should be 1) hair 2) makeup 3) nails 4) heels training 5) body and/or pubic hair 6) piercing.

[chaimhewast]

5 minutes ago, qalavix said:

With piercings, I'd like to see... something else.  In my current setup I have a 3BA body and I think DD soulgem nipple piercings, and those piercings seem to be independently boned from the actual nipple and breast.  It's really odd to see them jouncing almost opposite phase to the actual breast. Armor/clothing item nipple piercings do not have this problem.

That sounds like you might be using the wrong bodyslide files for the piercings. I'm also using 3BA and mine move with the nipples.

[qalavix]

1 minute ago, chaimhewast said:

That sounds like you might be using the wrong bodyslide files for the piercings. I'm also using 3BA and mine move with the nipples.

Well, anything's possible; I have only the barest idea of what I'm doing.  However, I have run BodySlide in Batch mode with Make Morphs checked, and the DD stuff got done (because one BreastRope doesn't work, so I always see it at the end as a failure, showing that the other DD items were almost certainly processed).

 

Still, I was more worried that someone competent like @Vegetius would fail to consider whatever I've screwed up as they write an entire mod; so 'twas meant as a gentle reminder not to screw it up like I probably have. ?

[Anunya]

Oh, one other thing for the request list: allow the user to adjust the cost basis of the various features. Different people have their economies set up very differently, and it's always nice to be able to adjust mods to fit what works for your game.

[Vegetius]

As I suspected, hair growth and styling would be the first feature which match with what I'm more interested in having too.

Then piercing, which tbh is not my jam at all, so makeup would probably be first.

Don't have much time to mod rn, but I'll probably come around to do something about the hair.

What I'm less sure about is what to do about the "gameplay incentives" aspects like YPS provide. In my body hair mod, it's just visual really, since I didn't wanted to punish people because they like their PC to be hairy.

14 hours ago, Anunya said:

Oh, one other thing for the request list: allow the user to adjust the cost basis of the various features. Different people have their economies set up very differently, and it's always nice to be able to adjust mods to fit what works for your game.

Yeah, even to make recipe for craftable items it's kind of a conundrum. For some, most ingredients will be trivial to acquire, for others it will be very hard. I remember some DDCL quests being night impossible because of Scarcity + my economy setup. But regarding prices, they should be impacted in the same way than any other item by mods that modify barter settings  and such, so I don't see it as that much a problem. Else I guess the best way would be a patcher.

[Varithina]

18 hours ago, Anunya said:

For piercings, making it relatively easy to add / import piercing meshes from other mods would be great (e.g. using earrings from other mods, and repurpose them as piercings for other parts); as well having the feature work with / not clash with Devious Devices since it is used in a lot of other mods.

 

Not clashing with devious devices is damn hard to do, as it uses so many slots for its various items.

[Darkwing241]

I have had a huge wish list for so long...  I'll try to keep it to the practical.

 

Priority Hair>Heels>makeup>piercing>Nylons

 

Vanilla Stuff

 

-Hair growth and styling: YPS best feature by far.  The only real weakness was at the style selection stage.  I had an idea to make a skyrim book that you could flip through pictures so you wouldn't have to run through the whole scripted preview for each style.

-Makeup: Particularly so it interacts at least someway with the Skyrim world.  Combat and water damage was a super cool idea that never worked.  Maybe consider finding a way to tie it to the higher quality racemenu makeup rather than a slavetat? A faceswap or something?

-Nail painting: Was always nice because you could see it in first person

-High Heel Training: I used a modified buff list so from heavy debuff>small debuff>no penalty>small debuff 

 

Kink Stuff

 

-Fashion addiction buffs/debuffs: I lean on YPS pretty heavily for poverty trap/slavery/bimbofication roleplays I think it's important to develop a system that can support a narrative that strings players along, encouraging players to adopt more and more fashion items, but not every single one right at the start.  I'm particularly in love with the idea that the PC is encouraged to use all these fashion items but ultimately they are not practical for the Skyrim world, leading her to sort of self transform from adventurer to something else.

 

Idea's for stuff that never existed in YPS

 

-Corsetry: with configurable support for actually pinching the PCs waist

-Bras: invisible with armor equipped? or maybe just a slave tat?  Potential for different types having different effects.  Practical sports bra's negating sprint stamina drain for well endowed women, push up bra's that give a body morph to make breasts look bigger, lacy nothings ect.  Gear selection is a major part of RPG gameplay, and this is a great place to tie fashion selection into gameplay.

-Rewards for fashion Items: Speech buff's are correct, but alone are pretty lame.  I posted an idea way back in the YPS forums to take advantage of activated powers similar to shouts/racial powers.  They don't have to be perfectly realistic but something to keep fashion interacting with Skyrim mechanics.  Preferably coming with advantages and drawbacks

     -"strike a pose" a brief animation that activates a buff.  Sort of like a prebattle power stance/magical girl pose type thing

     -"claws" a slightly improved unarmed melee with you nails (there are animations for this type of thing)

     -"charm"  A seductive calm spell that occasionally fails and buffs and emboldens your enemy

     -"strut" activate an exaggerated walk animation.  Maybe to reduce early high heel penalties in town or something?

-Unique Disadvantages for fashion items

     -Heels have training progression

     -makeup has expensive upkeep and gets smudged

     -Nails make archery difficult

     -corsets make it harder to move penalizing melee skills

-Influencers: Fashion is mostly just used by the PC so it would be cool to have NPCs around skyrim introducing it to the world.  Maybe you meet a girl on the road that works for Radiant Raiment and is teaching Nord women about makeup? ect.

-Bad Influencers:  Some fashion items can be particularly restrictive, maybe there's a thalmor women trying to get nord women hooked on high heels and corsetry?

-Compliments/Insults: Random comments on PC appearance that push the PC along the fashion addiction path, or give temporary buffs/debuffs

-Dress codes: I consistently roleplay that certain places 'require' my PC to dress up.  Sometimes it's an 'actual rule' and sometimes it's just in the PC's head.  This would give you incentive to try out new fashion items while playing through other Skyrim content

     -Taverns: a tavern in a nice city require you to get styled hair

     -Solitude Blue palace: Heels are all the rage in Elisef's court

     -Riften: women are expected to wear makeup

     -Markarth: women are expected to wear jewelry

-Dress code enforcement:  It doesn't need to be over the top, it could be as simple as guard telling you at the door that you should be wearing a particular item, maybe occasionally someone will insult you if you aren't meeting a requirement.  Maybe there are some places where the door is locked to you until you meet a certain check?

-lootability:  Rarely find them in the world, maybe theme drops to certain enemies?  Maybe manually add a few loot items to the world in places you might find them?  There something cool about the narrative of finding a particular fashion item in a forgotten tomb, and strutting into town to show off this new fashion item nobody has ever seen before.  DCL has loot crates that you find randomly that are actually pretty fun, getting some random fashion items would encourage you to mix up your look from day to day.

-Time: Watching the animations in YPS is fun the first few times but they get stale.  I do however like the roleplay of a warrior woman self training herself towards spending more of her time devoted to being pretty. I use the mod crafting takes time when playing with a time pressure mod like devious followers.  Skyrim has a built in low impact way of representing wasted time with the prison skill decay system.

 

 

 

 

[Anunya]

3 hours ago, Vegetius said:

As I suspected, hair growth and styling would be the first feature which match with what I'm more interested in having too.

Then piercing, which tbh is not my jam at all, so makeup would probably be first.

 

Yeah, it's important to focus on the things you enjoy - keeps the motivation going.

 

3 hours ago, Vegetius said:

Don't have much time to mod rn, but I'll probably come around to do something about the hair.

What I'm less sure about is what to do about the "gameplay incentives" aspects like YPS provide. In my body hair mod, it's just visual really, since I didn't wanted to punish people because they like their PC to be hairy.

 

Simple suggestion:

 

Whenever you've done something to maintain your appearance - change your hairstyle, trim your body hair, apply makeup, whatever - you get a small buff. Could be + speechcraft, could be + magicka, could be something else.

 

After a period of time, the buff gradually decreases to zero.

 

Simple suggestion + (with a bit more impact, and touching on fashion addiction?

 

If the PC regularly does something (hairstyle, trim body hair, apply makeup etc) then the max bonus increases (at first you get +5 speechcraft. After a while of regularly keeping up appearances, you get +10 and even +20), but rather than decrease to zero over time it goes into a debuff.

 

Simple Suggestion ++ (player usability)

 

If you let the players set the max and min debuff and time period in an MCM, that'll let them have te experience they desire. Maybe in one game I do want a PC who's penalized for not trimming her pubes, changing her hairstyle frequently, and wearing makeup; while in another I may want to use it as an incentive.

 

Also, I'd suggest with any buffs/ debuffs provide an option to have a debug message scroll buy saying something like "+10 speechcraft from new hairstyle" or "-10 magicka from unmaintained body hair" or whatever - that'll increase the impact of even minor buffs rather than make them forgettable.

 

3 hours ago, Vegetius said:

Yeah, even to make recipe for craftable items it's kind of a conundrum. For some, most ingredients will be trivial to acquire, for others it will be very hard. I remember some DDCL quests being night impossible because of Scarcity + my economy setup. But regarding prices, they should be impacted in the same way than any other item by mods that modify barter settings  and such, so I don't see it as that much a problem. Else I guess the best way would be a patcher.

 

Yeah, fair enough. I just think the price of a hairbrush or elastic headband is ridiculous in YPS is all

[chaimhewast]

30 minutes ago, Anunya said:

Yeah, fair enough. I just think the price of a hairbrush or elastic headband is ridiculous in YPS is all

I never even considered the prices of those items in YPS. Now that you point it out, I'm considering making a patch that nerfs their price to be more in-line with household items and adds them to the leveled list that puts misc items in furniture - feels silly that they're only available through the mod's vendors.

[Vegetius]

Lots of good ideas.

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

If the PC regularly does something (hairstyle, trim body hair, apply makeup etc) then the max bonus increases (at first you get +5 speechcraft. After a while of regularly keeping up appearances, you get +10 and even +20), but rather than decrease to zero over time it goes into a debuff.

I really like this idea.

 

2 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

-Bras: invisible with armor equipped? or maybe just a slave tat?

I have made myself a mod collection of underwear (that would be hard to share bc permissions), and though about maybe doing something like that like I know SoS manage to do with schlongs (actually hiding any outfit in slot 48 (iirc) when you put a body outfit), but the problem I see is the risk to impact another mod using the same slot (typically DD). And that's not something you can configure in a McM, since the body slots of an outfit are properties in the nif file itself. Maybe a keyword system (hideable or something). Yeah I've but some though in it already, absolutely not because lingerie is a fetish of mine...

 

2 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

-Unique Disadvantages for fashion items

     -Heels have training progression

     -makeup has expensive upkeep and gets smudged

     -Nails make archery difficult

     -corsets make it harder to move penalizing melee skills

 

Also a great idea, I really like the idea that fashion gives you buffs but also debuffs in more practical skills. Like every sportswoman either has short hair or attach it not to have them in the eyes.

 

But it would probably be not too gameplay intrusive, I don't want to make a mod that railroad you in playing as a bimbo, just one that gives you this possibility but also simply playing as an adventurer that takes care a bit about her looks.

 

I'll take it slowly anyway, one step at a time, just the hair feature is a big chunk already.

[qalavix]

 

Quote

Nails make archery difficult

My two years of archery in college plus LARP-style battles (with foam heads and low draw weight!) says no, they don't.  ? 

 

Quote

Dress codes: I consistently roleplay that certain places 'require' my PC to dress up.  Sometimes it's an 'actual rule' and sometimes it's just in the PC's head.  This would give you incentive to try out new fashion items while playing through other Skyrim content

 

I'd prefer for this NOT to happen except maybe in palaces.  The tavern may be the only place in town to buy food and drink!

Come to think of it, not then either; what I think is fancy clothing, is not what the game thinks is fancy clothing (the Thalmor Embassy party thing as the glaring example); and I don't want to have to add each I-think-it's-fancy item from my ~140 clothing mods to a list.

 

Quote

Yeah I've but some though in it already, absolutely not because lingerie is a fetish of mine...

 

Absolutely not!  You're just a generous and responsive modder, catering to your users and fans!

 

 

For under-clothing:

(BTW, Schlongs hides Slot 52 if you equip Slot 32, unless you dig through the MCM to mark that individual Slot32 item as 'Revealing')

This should probably be another mod entirely; but what about an MCM page(s) that allow you to specify a chain of items, like

Armor -> Fancy underwear or T-shirt or bodysuit or swimsuit or... -> skimpy bra -> nipple rings

or

Armor -> Leggings -> Panties -> Thong -> Piercings or surprise strap-on/futa penis

or 

some clothing from certain clothing packs -> the slutty version included, that has tops pushed up or pulled down, skirts pulled up around waist, shorts pulled down -> naked

 

so that if one is removed (voluntarily, SLSubLola, Defeat, SL strip) it'll auto-equip the 'next' which would be 'underneath'.

I'd suggest that, since nobody sticks to the same BodySlot numbers, that it be directly input.  

Save info to an external file, so if/when the save dies, you don't lose all the info.

 

Quote

I'll take it slowly anyway, one step at a time, just the hair feature is a big chunk already.

 

Make it very modular.

 

Another idea for hair, 'cause you don't have enough to do already: if you have certain fancy hairdos, and then have sex, the hairdo 'falls down' and has to be redone to get the buff back.  (this should also be switchable on/off)  Bonus if it increases appropriate SLSexFame values because you've got 'bedroom hair'.

[Anunya]

12 hours ago, qalavix said:

Another idea for hair, 'cause you don't have enough to do already: if you have certain fancy hairdos, and then have sex, the hairdo 'falls down' and has to be redone to get the buff back.  (this should also be switchable on/off)  Bonus if it increases appropriate SLSexFame values because you've got 'bedroom hair'.

 

This is relevant to my interests.

 

I understand if it's impractical to implement and / or low priority, but it's definitely something I'd appreciate.

[Vegetius]

I'll be honest, I'm not even gonna try to keep track of all your great ideas, because if I do I'll just be over

whelmed and never get anywhere.

 

On 3/8/2022 at 12:27 PM, qalavix said:

For under-clothing:

(BTW, Schlongs hides Slot 52 if you equip Slot 32, unless you dig through the MCM to mark that individual Slot32 item as 'Revealing')

This should probably be another mod entirely; but what about an MCM page(s) that allow you to specify a chain of items, like

Armor -> Fancy underwear or T-shirt or bodysuit or swimsuit or... -> skimpy bra -> nipple rings

or

Armor -> Leggings -> Panties -> Thong -> Piercings or surprise strap-on/futa penis

or 

some clothing from certain clothing packs -> the slutty version included, that has tops pushed up or pulled down, skirts pulled up around waist, shorts pulled down -> naked

 

so that if one is removed (voluntarily, SLSubLola, Defeat, SL strip) it'll auto-equip the 'next' which would be 'underneath'.

I'd suggest that, since nobody sticks to the same BodySlot numbers, that it be directly input.  

Save info to an external file, so if/when the save dies, you don't lose all the info.

 

Even if we were talking about a dedicated mod, I wouldn't try to cram such an advanced feature. I don't say it can be done, it probably can, but I think it's that a bit too much ambitious features like this that make some great mods janky and unwieldy. Plus, we are working with a limited set of slots, only factoring the vanilla, SoS and DD used ones doesn't leave a lot of leeway. But I'd definitely like to make some thing around the slutty version in clothing packs that you talked about.

[Anunya]

On the "bed hair" it could be as simple as designating one hairstyle as "bed hair" or "messy" (hardcoded / defined in json / in MCM). When that hairstyle is worn, there could be a debuff (or no buff, as per the hair style change idea above).

 

On a sexlab scene / stage change in sexlab scene / waking up from sleeping there could be a % chance that the player gets the "bed hair" / "messy" hairstyle.(or stage change in a sexlab scene) there could be a % chance that the current hairstyle is switched to the "messy" / "bed hair" one.

 

No worries if you don't do it - I know random ideas can massively inflate scope and be overwhelming - so feel free to disregard. I just enjoy trying to design simple implementations and put them forward   (If I'd had any success with my attempts at scripting / writing mods I'd pursue them, but so far my attempts have completely failed).

[Darkwing241]

2 hours ago, Anunya said:

On the "bed hair" it could be as simple as designating one hairstyle as "bed hair" or "messy" (hardcoded / defined in json / in MCM). When that hairstyle is worn, there could be a debuff (or no buff, as per the hair style change idea above).

 

On a sexlab scene / stage change in sexlab scene / waking up from sleeping there could be a % chance that the player gets the "bed hair" / "messy" hairstyle.(or stage change in a sexlab scene) there could be a % chance that the current hairstyle is switched to the "messy" / "bed hair" one.

 

No worries if you don't do it - I know random ideas can massively inflate scope and be overwhelming - so feel free to disregard. I just enjoy trying to design simple implementations and put them forward   (If I'd had any success with my attempts at scripting / writing mods I'd pursue them, but so far my attempts have completely failed).

This is starting to remind me of naked defeat.  I believed Naked Defeat has a feature/in development feature with head shaving after defeat scenarios. I had a brief conversation with Nymra about it as I was looking for a 'messed up' hair in that situation as well.  It may be worth looking into how that one works as it's looking like Naked Defeat will probably become the new standard

 

It feels like there is a lot of fun to be had with this kind of feature.  Defeat/fighting/sleeping/swimming/rain all could kick you back to a different set of hair styles. 

 

It seems very doable too since things like weather detection have been done before (SLS has it) so there should be some references to use for a detection system.

 

 

[Vegetius]

Of course I have no intention to be rude, english is obv not my first language.

All ideas are welcome.

I've done some more inquiry about an undergarments module, and futas are gonna be a tough case. SoS use the slot 52, weirdly body armors too (don't know if it comes from SoS but I made sure of it). Meaning that if you use the slot 52 for panties, it will hide the schlong when you put them BUT when you put a body armor it will remove the panty. If I use another slot for the panty, well the schlong is just gonna hand through it...

Nvm I had an idea

[Vegetius]

Sadly, it appears that I am terrible at life priorities management:

 

[qalavix]

39 minutes ago, Vegetius said:

Sadly, it appears that I am terrible at life priorities management

Sometimes I think that is a prerequisite for modding. ?

[Vegetius]

If you guys try it out, please check the questions on the file thread.

[Anunya]

What are the prerequisites for the mod, if any?

[Vegetius]

18 minutes ago, Anunya said:

What are the prerequisites for the mod, if any?

That's in the description : no hard requirement (for now) but you'll obviously need an underwear pack like the one I indicated to use the undergarments functionality.

 

If you have a minute, please go check the file thread, I'd be interested by your thoughs on the question I asked there.

[Balgin]

The most important feature for me would be an LE backport (especially if it was YPS compatible or at least did not conflict much).