Shion Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Hello guys, first things first: my english is not perfect so expect some grammatical errors. And I know this is kinda boring but bare with me. So... I'm here to show you guys about the situation here in Brazil. As you may know now we are preparing for the World Cup to give the best stadiums you guys ever saw. That's where the problem "begins". The government is only focusing on this, nothing about education, hospitals, infrastructures, and a lot more. Now because one of the recent decisions of the government, we said: "No more!" and then we started making protests. I won't post any pictures here because there's a lot of them. You can search on Google: "brazil protests" and you'll se what's happening. Here there's a couple of videos to better show you about our situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7t60-ro_5U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWbfYoXwniE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBYEXLGdSg To finish it should be good to say that we are on the verge of a revolution. And I know we can't get everything we want like the end of corruption or world peace, but we deserve to claim our rights and give better attention to other things. Thank you for your time and have a good day.
Something Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 This is what happens when men believe that their rights come from other men. Men can take them away.
Emily Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 World cup starts at june 2014. If your goverment are smart they should be able to gain a large profit return in 2014 from tourism, transportation, visa, merchandise, tickets, services, hotels, food, security, and other local goods and services. Brazil should have both foreign, private investment for 2014 worldcup by now and not from taxes alone. .. Still one year to go for mega project. Emily Hope everything went well in the end.
formel Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Keep up the fight. Almost everything is more important that this damn sport event's. It is a shame when the football mafia and weak politicans who try to buiild them self monoment ruin an aspireing nation. World cup starts at june 2014. If your goverment are smart they should be able to gain a large profit return in 2014 from tourism, transportation, visa, merchandise, tickets, services, hotels, food, security, and other local goods and services.Brazil should have both foreign, private investment for 2014 worldcup by now and not from taxes alone... Still one year to go for mega project. Emily Hope everything went well in the end. A comparison with the last worldcups shows they won't get any profit out of it. The cost for the stadia, infrastructure (well at least that will be of any use for the people afterwars when it is not solely focused on the stadia), the security measures etc. are so tremendous that they can't be compensated by three to four weeks the worldcups takes. And then there is the FIFA: -They give very little money for the preperation, have huge gains from worldcup and pay no texas to the brasilian goverment, because every nation that wants to host the worldcup have to ensure that to the FIFA amongst other questionable things. -In and around the stadias as well as the official "public viewing" events are only FIFA sponors and their products alloud, which are all foreign and pay therefore no taxes in Brasil. Every local company merchant is not alloud to sell their products on such a location. -As for private investment why should they? There is no use for them in doing so. The best they can hope of is that their company name is put into the name of a stadium. There is no chance for them to place any advertisement in a game because FIFA only allow their sponsors. And money that is payed to the FIFA stays with the FIFA.
Skynile Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 World cup have a certain way of "hiding" injustice. Back in 94 the world cup made everyone turn their eyes away from the genocide in Rwanda. If you have injustice in Brazil then fight for your rights and justice.
Something Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Isn't this the same Brazil that's gonna be hosting the 2016 olympic games? Yeeeah. You see, this is what happens when you create an environment where teachers, doctors, construction workers, etc are expected to surrender a percentage of their finite time on Earth to fulfill the materialistic demand of a people who were fooled into thinking these are "rights."
PhineasColby Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Keep it up guys!! Nations are made of men and women not puppets! Spread the word, for a real big Brazil
ChancellorKremlin Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 You have to love both Dilma Rouseff's balls and her cara de pau (cynicism) in saying she's proud of Brazilians seizing their democratic rights and making their voices heard and bringing on the discussion about inequality by taking to the streets and protesting. On the one hand, it is a very smart response given that basically anywhere else where there have been riots and the presidents/pm's/king's have taken a hard stance things have only got worse, and it is quite moderate. But on the other, it is so ridiculously false and mocking so as to perhaps render the first quality rather useless. I did find one placard quite ironic: "When your child falls sick, take him to a stadium." lol
Angrybird Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 Revolutions are good, burn down the stadiums and execute the entire parliament because 99% of them are corrupt to the core, little internet videos don't solve anything.
formel Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 But burning things and executing people does? Yeah right....
Angrybird Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 Killing people solves problems Machiavelli agrees, I'm proposing something what have you proposed? Go ahead and tell me how you'd fix Brazil's rampant corruption I don't like killing people either.
leddis3 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Man and I was irritated with the UK government for hosting the Olympics while trying to find ways to cut benefits for the disabled to this day because "Times are tough boohoohoo." But to see a country blatantly not taking care of it's people and still putting international prestige first, well, I'd be incredibly pissed if I lived there too.
Emily Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Keep up the fight. Almost everything is more important that this damn sport event's. It is a shame when the football mafia and weak politicians who try to build them self monument ruin an aspiring nation. World cup starts at june 2014. If your government are smart they should be able to gain a large profit return in 2014 from tourism, transportation, visa, merchandise, tickets, services, hotels, food, security, and other local goods and services. Brazil should have both foreign, private investment for 2014 world cup by now and not from taxes alone. .. Still one year to go for mega project. Emily Hope everything went well in the end. A comparison with the last world cups shows they won't get any profit out of it. The cost for the studio, infrastructure (well at least that will be of any use for the people afterwars when it is not solely focused on the stadia), the security measures etc. are so tremendous that they can't be compensated by three to four weeks the world cups takes. And then there is the FIFA: -They give very little money for the preparation, have huge gains from worldcup and pay no texas to the Brazilian government, because every nation that wants to host the world cup have to ensure that to the FIFA amongst other questionable things. -In and around the stadias as well as the official "public viewing" events are only FIFA sponors and their products alloud, which are all foreign and pay therefore no taxes in Brasil. Every local company merchant is not alloud to sell their products on such a location. -As for private investment why should they? There is no use for them in doing so. The best they can hope of is that their company name is put into the name of a stadium. There is no chance for them to place any advertisement in a game because FIFA only allow their sponsors. And money that is payed to the FIFA stays with the FIFA. Thanks for the correction formel.Brazil hosted world cup back in 1950 before, the economic condition wasn't as tight as the 21.st century. It was a pre-war soccer and emily thought brazil could use the previous stadium. ... Today it seems the unnecesities has become the necesarry. Bubbling up every cost whenever possible. If south Korean are not at the brink of war with north korean. They could be an ideal qualifying host for world cup 2014. At least they don't have to import anything so massively for the setup and their nationality pride are stronger.
Myst42 Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Power is an illusion, a construct of smoke and mirrors. Along history, whenever people realized their rulers are not gods and their power is not divine or absolute, they realize they dont have to put up with that shit. They are human beings just like the rest and have the same rights. They are made of the same flesh, all of them run blood through their veins and theres nothing "superior" in being from "higher class" However, as much as part of my mind is anarch, I dont agree with anarchy as a philosophy in all points. Most anarchs are just brawlers and people who want to make a mess and disorder. Foolish youngsters who go around with a philosophy of hate and destruction only because they like it. These are delinquents not idealists. The BIG difference between these idiots and intelligent people who are discontempt with the system, is that the intelligent people wants a solution. We would see the world burn but only if there was a way to rebuild a new and better one from the ashes. And finally, there must always be somekind of order or anarchist absolute chaos would consume everything Me personally would like to see change as peaceful as possible. With creation and brotherhood instead of destruction and murder. Unfortunately, the way of the human civilization is always violence. And revolutions are as violent as they can get. I hope Brazil can make a change and Brazilians fighting for their rights can get to a good conclusion. There was mention of revolution, but I hope even if there is one, it can be kept to a minimal bloodshed.
formel Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Killing people solves problems Machiavelli agrees, I'm proposing something what have you proposed? Go ahead and tell me how you'd fix Brazil's rampant corruption I don't like killing people either. Hurray Machiavelli!! A man who proposes a politic without any influences of moral and ethics. Applying Machiavelli on the situation in Brazil, it would be absolut ok for the goverment to end the demonstration with tanks. When they start with burning and killing the goverment will say that are kriminals and terrorists and will use massiv force to end it and nobody national or internatinal will even care. If they want to be taken seriously they have to stay peacefully. Keep up the demonstrations with huge participation, elect another party, organize themself and form a party of their own to make it different. Brazil is a democratik country so there are enough non violent ways to oppose the goverment. Thanks for the correction formel.Brazil hosted world cup back in 1950 before, the economic condition wasn't as tight as the 21.st century. It was a pre-war soccer and emily thought brazil could use the previous stadium. ... Today it seems the unnecesities has become the necesarry. Bubbling up every cost whenever possible. If south Korean are not at the brink of war with north korean. They could be an ideal qualifying host for world cup 2014. At least they don't have to import anything so massively for the setup and their nationality pride are stronger. Well the sadia from back then don't meet todays requirements. Alone the number of spectators is complete different. And the FIFA have a catalog of requirements that a stadium has to fulfil that it is allowed for the worldcup and the old ones don't do that in the most cases. But it seems that those resbonsible for the construction exaggerate a bit or even much. For the worldcup 2014 the FIFA tried a modified procedure with region lock. Only nations in south america were aloud. So it almost had to be Brazil. FIFA stoped the religion lock short after, they realized this way they get far less bribes and other gifts.
Emily Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Protest aside, Do you think brazil can win world cup 2014?
formel Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Don't know, Don't care. Spain seems to have the best doped team at the moment
ChancellorKremlin Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 It will be interesting to see how Dilma and her cabinet deal with this. I'm also quite surprised Lula hasn't made any sort of statement about the protests.
formel Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Admiting failure is not a human trait, we avoid it as much as possible. Then emily will bet her money on spain Don't go all in based on my prediction
Angrybird Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 If they want to be taken seriously they have to stay peacefully. Keep up the demonstrations with huge participation, elect another party, organize themself and form a party of their own to make it different. Brazil is a democratik country so there are enough non violent ways to oppose the goverment. The problem isn't the government by purging the parliament you'd be making an example of them that's the idea, in Brazil corruption runs all the way down to the bakery down the street that isn't solved by electing a new party.
formel Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 That I can't, I won't estimate from where I'am. But you also don't change a society through violent examples. There your thoughts are anachronistic history is full of examples that this does not work. To exterminate a behavior that is spread through huge parts of a society it is necessary that the people have to realize that they are doing wrong and are willing to correct it.
PhineasColby Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 That I can't, I won't estimate from where I'am. But you also don't change a society through violent examples. There your thoughts are anachronistic history is full of examples that this does not work. To exterminate a behavior that is spread through huge parts of a society it is necessary that the people have to realize that they are doing wrong and are willing to correct it. Brazil right now is splitted in two parts: 10% Rich men who can assure themselves and their own families instruction and health care, and 90% Poor people who dies of flu. You can talk for hours or years in public forums but the reality is that poor people are the cushion of the Rich men. If something goes wrong they are the last to feel the disaster. Europeans make thousands of riots every year, but no government order to the police to kill people. Althought in Brazil if you protest you are consider a rebel. You can spread how much you want your voice but the fact is that they have guns you don't.
Angrybird Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 That I can't, I won't estimate from where I'am. But you also don't change a society through violent examples. There your thoughts are anachronistic history is full of examples that this does not work. To exterminate a behavior that is spread through huge parts of a society it is necessary that the people have to realize that they are doing wrong and are willing to correct it. History is also full of examples where it worked, that's not an argument, what is it called? Appeal to authority fallacy? I don't know my philosophy very well. You still didn't offer a solution, where do you break the cycle? People have to be corrupt to feed their families and the upper class yolk is corrupt because they want to maintain their status quo, so where do you begin? We gotta change the people! Which people? And how?
formel Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Through violence you can't apply changes to a whole society that last very long. If the people are not convinced so you need an authority to enforce, and how will you guarantee that the people within the authority are noz also corrupt in a land you say almost everyone is corrupt? There is no simple and fast solution to wide spread corruption, it will take long maybe even a generation to end it and it will only work if the people realize that they do better without it. Which people? Dosen't matter simply everyone. And you can see through thier mostly peacefull protests the goverment starts slowly reconsider their way actions. If they want more they have to keep up the demonstrations. And as I already said the best way to achieve changes is to creat a party that is actually a real alternativ to the established ones. And the movement is large enough that are partie that emerges from it can have early successes. But again no fast and no simple way.
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