MODDERS - SexoutSharedResources (SSR) testing/suggestion thread

[prideslayer]

Ask whatever questions you need to ask, Bruce. If SSR is a fit for you and your mods, more power to ya'. If not, well, it's no skin off my back. The NPC issue is one where I just don't see the benefit of putting them in. There's nothing particularly advantageous about a mod being an ESP vs. an ESM, nor anything disadvantageous about it being an ESM vs an ESP. Some people even intentionally convert any ESPs they get to ESMs, though I recommend against this as in some cases it will break functionality -- specifically spots where things are looking for the ESP by name just to see if it's loaded as with ZAZ, or to potentially use buildref to instantiate records from it as sexout used to do with the breezes nude bodysuits.

 

Load order issues really strike me as a non-issue. The fomod scripting to set the right load order is terribly simple, sexout already does this to ensure that sexout, SSR (in the beta, SCR in release), Slavery, and Legion are all in the right order if they are present. Other mods can do the same. In fact, almost the entire script.cs file in the sexout core fomod is devoted to ensuring the load order is correct.

 

If you want a script.cs you can actually just copy the one in the sexout fomod (fomod/script.cs in the CORE fomod) and then adjust the load order checking to include your mod. I kept that script generic on purpose, it will work fine exactly as it is, without any changes, in any mod -- sexout related or not. If sexout mods are present, it will perform load order fixing on them.

 

I believe the code for the fomod XML to do the same thing is fairly simple as well, if you don't need or want to use the c# script.

 

 

Edit: Full disclosure, you can obviously just ask Hal to toss your NPC in SCR, and continue to use that. I assure you, I will not be even slightly offended if *nobody* elects to use SSR. As I've already said, it would certainly make my life easier.

[BruceWayne]

I'm sure he would. But as I said, I'm more than willing to use SSR, because of more or less the same reasons, that prompted you to create it in the first place. As it stands now, Affairs uses one armor and the MCM thingie and Willow uses the strapon. There are no other connections to SCR and having people use SCR for this seems overkill. Then again, as I started with those mods, SCR was certainly more lightweight than it is now. I'm not going to put blame on Halstrom for that, because if he decides to include something, who am I to deny him that. I can live with SOA turning into an .esm. As it is now, the next version will neither use SCR nor SSR, as there really is no reason, if 1) no NPCs are included, 2) the MCM debug thingie is gone and 3) 3rd party armors without resource permission aren't in there anymore. I will include all resources that I can in a .bsa file and having only sexout.esm as a master will make even the densest newb able to use it and figure out the load order on his own.

 

[prideslayer]

I'm in favor of all that. If you make it a master that only relies on Sexout, you can always add SCR or SSR in later as a master. If you do add the strapon, make sure to give it the shemale effect or whatever it's called, from sexout. This ensures sexout will treat anyone wearing it as a male regardless of gender when the random picker is invoked, though the strapons etc. won't be going away from either one so long as the meshes are there, and I think they all are. It's mostly armor, and I think maybe some of the gags and anal plugs, that are missing meshes.

[DoctaSax]

(A bit bullet-style here.)
 
Debug: Not a dealbreaker, but it's a neat practical thing, for the less experienced as well as those who are. You might put it in NG, maybe, to avoid an active script & MCM in SSR (not your main script of course, I know it's quite full).

NPCs:

The only reason I'm hearing to put them in is so the mod using them does not have to become an ESM, which strikes me as a very weak reason.

Not sure if it is. An esm will always have certain edits overridden by an esp by default. You esmify to make sure your npc doesn't have face/body mismatch, but lose the ability to say "just put my esp below that one" if there's an incompatibility with a cell edit or edit to a different npc from something from nexus, for example. Without patches, I mean. It's not compelling, not completely weak either maybe. But if Bruce is alright with it, I'm not arguing.
 

They, thus far, are certainly not a "shared" resource -- All of them present are used by 0..1 mods, never 2+.

If the requirement is not just things that are already used, but also already used by multiple mods, I should point out that's probably not always the case for the tryout mods either. Anyway, moving on.

lists: It's the same with actor exemption lists as clothing eval lists; all it takes is that they exist, for specific content mods to opt out of a generic functionality for an npc, on a case by case basis, by listaddforming. Especially SLActorDataIsReserved (I'm assuming you're ok with that one because it wasn't part of the quote) is quite crucial to interoperability for the moment if people were to make BR & hookups duplicates. Some of that is probably better off being handled by nx at some point, but at the moment that's what there is.

Clothes (swap): I'm sure this particular part set off all kinds of alarms when I brought it up, but I was just wondering about  the 7 raw, non-pregnancy torn vault outfits (ending in H25P0B3). I can't completely tell what the status is on those ones, short and midterm. Apart from the optional swapping business it looks like I also have a conversation condition refering to the player wearing one of 'em to advance a story path, now that I had a closer look at things, and can't easily rewrite the convo leading up to it. (Some of that... been a while.) I could obviously provide my own formIDs there. Still, those meshes were developed right here for general sexout community use, nor can anyone say they'd really belong in pregnancy, so I just wanna be clear. 

 

I've said, repeatedly, that every running script from SCR is gone in SSR, and all that remains of them are the vars -- as I don't know which ones mods are actually using vs. which they aren't.

When it comes to quest vars, I just need the 'lust bit' in that particular script, for the quests SexoutSQVARZPlayer & SexoutSQVARZDocMitchell, until they can go too. Lust itself also handles this for the vanilla npc's for the moment. Afaik, the rest is mostly pregnancy or unused, but maybe someone else has something there too, I dunno.
 

Not a warehouse of every possible thing that *no* mods use but that someday one might want to use.

 
I'll bet you want to lay out the general policy for all, but that part's pretty clear already.
I figure, if it's about what's actually already used and breakage-free, there's no reason I can't be compatible with either or both of SSR/SCR, give or take a few considerations, to avoid forcing current and potential users to follow either choice I'd otherwise make for them, or pass on my stuff other than for the usual reasons. (It already looks daunting to install to some maybe, and it's a bit 'niche' I guess )

I also don't wanna give Hal the impression I'm looking for a chance to jump ship at the earliest opportunity - I'd just like to get it all sorted out for both, now that I still know what's where, have a look at Lust & account for it, and let it all safely be for a while, as I get some play time in and then finish up story. At this point it's already just about the details for me, which is why I thought there should be a thread on 'em.
 

[prideslayer]

NPCs:

The only reason I'm hearing to put them in is so the mod using them does not have to become an ESM, which strikes me as a very weak reason.

Not sure if it is. An esm will always have certain edits overridden by an esp by default. You esmify to make sure your npc doesn't have face/body mismatch, but lose the ability to say "just put my esp below that one" if there's an incompatibility with a cell edit or edit to a different npc from something from nexus, for example. Without patches, I mean. It's not compelling, not completely weak either maybe. But if Bruce is alright with it, I'm not arguing.

 

I'll handle the requests on a per-case basis. Right now though as I said, I do not believe the NPCs currently in SCR are being used by... anyone. For anything. The question was about what to delete more than what to add for someone who may want me to add something.

 

As for the conflict issue, I don't think that's a real concern. When there is such a conflict, one of the mods is going to lose, and some kind of functionality is going to get broken. If you (as a player) absolutely must have both, that's when it's time to bash up a patch in wrye or fnvedit.

 

If the requirement is not just things that are already used, but also already used by multiple mods, I should point out that's probably not always the case for the tryout mods either. Anyway, moving on.

Lest you forget, the original goal of this project was to de-SCRify tryouts and move any resources it *needs* back into Legion. I do practice what I preach.. generally.

lists: ..

Not sure why you are bringing them up again, other than that you are very concerned about them since most of your work relies on them. They can all stay. They can even stay prefilled. Some will lose some, if not all, of their default contents once the pregnant and non-working meshes are removed. I assume pregnancy will script-add it's meshes back in, as will whatever mod adds the "broken" items. I mentioned a few posts back that personally, I think this should be the store itself.

Clothes (swap): I'm sure this particular part set off all kinds of alarms when I brought it up, but I was just wondering about  the 7 raw, non-pregnancy torn vault outfits (ending in H25P0B3). I can't completely tell what the status is on those ones, short and midterm.

They will *probably* stay. It sounds like they are referencing vanilla assets and we have all the meshes we need for them to work perfectly out of the box, without requiring any additional downloads of meshes or textures. The pregnancy ones can even stay, though I don't see the "point" in it since nothing but pregnancy is going to use them, so long as they "work."

 

So it's things like the china dress, mantis suit, etc. that will get the axe.

When it comes to quest vars, I just need the 'lust bit' in that particular script, for the quests SexoutSQVARZPlayer & SexoutSQVARZDocMitchell, until they can go too. Lust itself also handles this for the vanilla npc's for the moment. Afaik, the rest is mostly pregnancy or unused, but maybe someone else has something there too, I dunno.

I don't either, but unless you and everyone else want to recompile every script using them (in which case, why not just change it to do.. something else), I can't delete any vars in the quest that are declared *before* the one's you're using, at the very least. Doing so changes the var index and will kablooey everyone, since that's what the scripts actually use.

 

I'm nervous about leaving them all in simply because people MAY be either setting them and expecting that to trigger SCR to "do something", or expection SCR to be "doing something" in the background that is changing/evolving them. All of that sort of stuff is gone from SSR. Just the vars remain, set to whatever their defaults are or whatever is in an individuals save game.

 

Being compatible with both should be dead easy if you don't rely on any of the esoteric "live" stuff that is/was in SCR. Enchanted items, dialog edits, running quest scripts, etc.

 

If you're considering using it, I encourage you (and anyone else) to ease off the speculation a bit and just give it a try as I outlined in the other thread.

 

Check for errors in your mod in fnvedit, change the master from SCR to SSR, and check again. If no new errors pop up, playtest it and see what happens. I'm willing to bet that in most cases, mods will "just work". Tryouts, workinggirl, sexoutslavery, and sewerslave all did, with almost no edits -- in a few spots I had to remove the PC getting jabbed with a FertX during a dialog, but that was coming out anyway for a tryouts update, so no big deal.

 

The only mods I know for a fact will NOT work are Pregnancy and, thus, Breeder. Breeder will probably require some fnvedit finesse, and I'm more than willing to help user29 out with that, once Hal has all the needed records moved over to Pregnancy -- IF user29 even cares to switch away from SCR. He may not. His call.

[DoctaSax]

The question was about what to delete more than what to add for someone who may want me to add something.

 

Good to hear. And yeah, possible conflicts... people oughta learn about LO & merged patches, obviously. We keep telling 'em...

 

Lest you forget, the original goal of this project was to de-SCRify tryouts and move any resources it *needs* back into Legion. I do practice what I preach.. generally.

Yeah well, some static got in the way of hearing what the original goal was - but you know about that already.

 

Not sure why you are bringing them up again

Well, I was already appeased on the appearance ones, actually, but you did go on a bit of a rant about the prefilling of actor exemption lists there. Those lists being prefilled; I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up either Just saying that in both cases, empty's fine and better, and those 3, out of many non-preg actor lists, actually important.

 

They will *probably* stay.

Thanks. The pregnancy ones should just be in pregnancy, makes perfect sense, and without preg as a master for it (yet), sofo won't assume people have preg either, so just the 7 suits me fine.

 

Other clothes, policy-wise, I was a little with CK on keeping some basic stuff we're used to there, thinking it more friendly for some users. But maybe that's just being used to it? Time past, it wasn't much of an issue, but people aren't wrong in saying it's become harder than need be, putting it all together these days, in order to feel like you have a 'full' SCR install. Not really easy for anyone having to do it new; you're just glad you have it so you don't have to do it again. Sometimes the source mods get different filepaths or disappear etc. I usually have a few other clothing packs in my game already too. Clothes just to have clothes, instead of those used by a mod, that's a clothing comp, isn't it. Store could hold that, or another esp, if zippy doesn't feel like it.

 

I can't delete any vars in the quest that are declared *before* the one's you're using, at the very least. ... I'm nervous about leaving them all in simply because people MAY be either setting them

I'm not sure but I doubt anyone uses 'em beyond sofo & lust for the lust, pregnancy for pregnancy vars, possibly bodyswapping. Most of that's at the top, iirc. Chase sounds fine with somebody adopting Lust - so you won't have to be nervous about it long. I'll touch up lust (if she'll let me )- & it'll probably end up just needing ng - then adapt sofo, throw in the moveto refs while I'm in there & give the all-clear. When it comes to vars, that could be a win for all. I'm not married to them as they are, just as a placeholder now.

 

Being compatible with both should be dead easy

I'm pretty much set now. A bunaway jab, reviving an old script, small stuff. Just a little testing tomorrow, & I'll have something out barring surprises - and that's usually just in the actual packaging, if the past is anything to go by...

 

[wardminator]

I'd like to chime in here. I do a lot of modding for my own personal use. Some of this stuff I want to clean and polish up for potential release. A lot of those mods include custom NPCs. To address something that DoctaSax said, an esp can override content in an esm which means the potential for conflicts. One of the things I attempt to do is keep conflicts with other mods to a minimum and avoid them all together if can. That isn't always possible. But... (you knew there had to be a but coming) any NPCs that I create will always go into an esm regardless, simply because of the head/body texture issue. The esm with contain the NPC(s) created will also contain some other stuff such as cells and navmesh. I will then complete the rest of the mod in an esp where quests, dialogue and scripting is done. The number of master files I am running now are almost the same as the number of plugins I have. I see no reason why there is a need to put NPCs in as a resource when the modder can create their own. I would prefer to create my own anyway because what is the use of having a Sexout Rapist NPC in a resource file when the modder is probably going to have to attach a script to that NPC, thereby creating the potential for conflicts. It makes no sense to me. I have a companion mod out there and released it as an esm. There are times when I wish I could see her be a part of some of the things that the player and the rest of the normal companions go through. Does that mean I think she should be included in the resource file? No. It's a stand alone mod. If I or someone else wanted it included in Sexout content bad enough, I or someone else can always create a patch.

 

Other Content

The same holds true with a lot of other items, such as a slave collar. OK, so there is a Sexout Slave Collar. I am going to end up just creating my own simply because I am probably going to need to attach my own script to that collar. That can easily be done with the games vanilla collar, so why include vanilla content in the resource file? When it comes to custom content, one instance of that content can be used within the resource file so that a modder can take and pick what they want to use, create their own instance of that content, write the scripts referencing that item which is now unique and avoid the potential for conflict all together. As it is, between SexoutLegion, SexoutSlavery, and SCR, there is a lot of unnecessary redundancy there that ends up becoming nothing more than clutter within the Geck.

[wardminator]

Oh forgot one other thing. Custom races....

 

I have several custom races that I created myself. Some of that I want to clean and polish up because I think it's good enough for release. All my custom races are in master files. That is the only way to do it. I don't see a need to include custom races in a Sexout resource file. Possibly in pregnancy, though that wouldn't even be necessary if Halstrom could devise a way for the player to select the race of their PC, possibly through an MCM menu option. Other than that, I don't see a need to include any custom races in the resource file. If there really that much clamor for a custom race resource, one of us probably would have put one together by now. Custom NPCs and races need to go into a master file, but not necessarily a resource file, let alone SSR. Prideslayer is right in that there is a lot of content that is currently included in SCR that isn't even being used.