Old SexLab Submit - (Merge into the current Submit thread?)

[dkatryl]

Using both Submit and Defeat? o.o ....okay then.

 

 

Do I still need to do clean saves when updating your mod from 13 to 14?

 

Shouldn't be required.

 

The 'clean save' was mostly for the update ~a week ago where I fixed the stupid Hotkey issue.

 

If you already have done that, or if you only got the mod for the first time after the Hotkey was fixed, you shouldn't need to do any 'clean save'.

[Crate123]

Using both Submit and Defeat? o.o ....okay then.

 

 

 

 

Yup, I turn "the player being able to rape enemies" off in Defeat and use Submit for that. I use Defeat only really so the enemies can beat me down and rape me without me surrendering on purpose.

[Crate123]

Ok I tried your routine with setav 1 and stopcombat with the mod uninstalled. The level 1 bandit got right into the fight again and I couldnt stop her again. So at least it isnt the mod that causes it.

[dkatryl]

Ok I tried your routine with setav 1 and stopcombat with the mod uninstalled. The level 1 bandit got right into the fight again and I couldnt stop her again. So at least it isnt the mod that causes it.

 

Well, that means the good news is that fully rules out my mod as the source the problem so I don't have to worry I have this huge bug floating around out there that I can't find, and don't have to really spend any more time trying to figure it out.

 

The bad news is that there is obviously some mod out there that, when present, will seriously conflict with my mod, and at best, people like yourself that have taken the time to prove it isn't my mod *still* can't properly enjoy it because of this conflict, and at worst, people won't be as thorough and inaccurately conclude that my mod is buggy as shit and doesn't work.

 

It does make me curious what the culprit could be, if nothing else if I knew why it was happening, I might have a chance at countering it.  As it is, I'm pretty helpless to do anything.

[Crate123]

Yeah if I didnt use a 150+ mods of various kinds I would try to uninstall one at a time but thats too much bother since its litterally only level 1 bandits that cause this for me.

I have tried to do it with the most obvious mods, those that supposedly affect the AI and I tried the other sexlab mods and even the S3 slavery mod, but no luck.

[ttpt]

I've discounted the combat mods at least, I still have the Dance of Death as another mod that messes up with kill moves that could potentially be causing issues, but I'm not entirely sure it's that either.

 

In any case, when I have the time I'll keep fiddling with my mods and see if I can find you the conflicting mod.

[Crate123]

I've discounted the combat mods at least, I still have the Dance of Death as another mod that messes up with kill moves that could potentially be causing issues, but I'm not entirely sure it's that either.

 

In any case, when I have the time I'll keep fiddling with my mods and see if I can find you the conflicting mod.

 

dkatryl has Dance of Death as well and it poses no problems for him so that shouldnt be it.

 

 

 

Just tested on 2 bandit outlaws, everything worked fine. It is now definately proven that its only the really low level bandits that cause problems for me.

[dkatryl]

I've discounted the combat mods at least, I still have the Dance of Death as another mod that messes up with kill moves that could potentially be causing issues, but I'm not entirely sure it's that either.

 

In any case, when I have the time I'll keep fiddling with my mods and see if I can find you the conflicting mod.

I actually do use Dance of Death, so I can confirm it isn't that!

[dkatryl]

 

I've discounted the combat mods at least, I still have the Dance of Death as another mod that messes up with kill moves that could potentially be causing issues, but I'm not entirely sure it's that either.

 

In any case, when I have the time I'll keep fiddling with my mods and see if I can find you the conflicting mod.

 

dkatryl has Dance of Death as well and it poses no problems for him so that shouldnt be it.

 

 

 

Just tested on 2 bandit outlaws, everything worked fine. It is now definately proven that its only the really low level bandits that cause problems for me.

 

Just a thought I had this morning that might be why it seems it only happens on low level bandits.

 

When you say low level bandits, I take it you just mean something that you can almost kill with one hit?  Versus something that is a higher level and may take several hits to whittle them down to the point where your success chance % is decent?

 

On the ones that take several hits, have you tried to carefully whittle them down so they were VERY low, like let them get into the bleedout state naturally, wait for them to stand up, then perform your submit attack of choice?

 

I'm curious if it is something related to their really low health, and given the low total health on a low level NPC, one good whack will put them down to this trigger point for whatever is conflicting, versus a higher level NPC that can easily be brought down to the range where you can use Submit properly but they have enough health left so they don't trigger whatever is conflicting.

 

If that makes sense to anyone but me.

 

Edit: Tonight, I'll try to remember to post my own personal mod list, so if nothing else, you can rule out all of those.

[redeyesandlonghair]

 

Using both Submit and Defeat? o.o ....okay then.

 

 

 

 

Yup, I turn "the player being able to rape enemies" off in Defeat and use Submit for that. I use Defeat only really so the enemies can beat me down and rape me without me surrendering on purpose.

 

I actually kinda went the opposite way... kind of.  I like the surrender option from Submit, since it seems the most realistic, and is actually quite useful since I modded my game to be all dangerous and high damage, partly because I would have to set the health threshold too high to ever not die before they could grab me for action, and also because... well, those npcs are dangerous and sometimes when I see their meany pants come running at me in big groups I just wanna surrender before the fight even starts ;_;

 

For me gettin' them I actually like the way Defeat does it, and the two mods actually work fairly well together in this respect!  I use the activate key on NPCs to use Defeat's Knockdown function, and then while the NPC is down I talk to them and use Submit's dialogue options to complete the action.  I do it this way because I use a gamepad, so I have a limited number of keys to work with ( and that's also the reason I wished for the submit action to be available as an actual shout :3 ) The only issue I ran into is that after I was done with them, they put their gear back on and started attacking me!  But for that I'm going to use SexLab Util to make them run away in fear after I do the deed at them >

 

 

So ya... for me, this is basically a package deal now, the amazing mod known as "SexLab Defeat & Submit"  \( ^ _ ^( O_o)/

[dkatryl]

 

I actually kinda went the opposite way... kind of.  I like the surrender option from Submit, since it seems the most realistic, and is actually quite useful since I modded my game to be all dangerous and high damage, partly because I would have to set the health threshold too high to ever not die before they could grab me for action, and also because... well, those npcs are dangerous and sometimes when I see their meany pants come running at me in big groups I just wanna surrender before the fight even starts ;_;

 

For me gettin' them I actually like the way Defeat does it, and the two mods actually work fairly well together in this respect!  I use the activate key on NPCs to use Defeat's Knockdown function, and then while the NPC is down I talk to them and use Submit's dialogue options to complete the action.  I do it this way because I use a gamepad, so I have a limited number of keys to work with ( and that's also the reason I wished for the submit action to be available as an actual shout :3 ) The only issue I ran into is that after I was done with them, they put their gear back on and started attacking me!  But for that I'm going to use SexLab Util to make them run away in fear after I do the deed at them >

 

So ya... for me, this is basically a package deal now, the amazing mod known as "SexLab Defeat & Submit"  \( ^ _ ^( O_o)/

It was never my original intention for these two mods to work together (I started mine before Defeat, so obviously it couldn't have been!), instead my mod was originally solely designed to work alongside Romance.  And when I began work on Submit, player surrender was never even a consideration, but I was surprised by how popular that feature was by the number of people asking for it!  So, a month or so down the road, finding that Submit and Defeat work well together and just gives players choices on using different aspects of each to suit their own tastes works out quite nicely.

 

Options are always good. 

 

I suppose I *could* add an MCM option to make a proper Shout version of the 'Submit Shout', but then you'd have to learn it with a dragon soul and of course unlock shouts through the main quest line.  Only reason I'm kind of iffy on that is the Grapple/Ambush/Surrender, all of whch aren't really 'Shout' type activities but currently all share the same Hotkey with conditionals, and wouldn't really be applicable to that, so it would only end up being the Shout.

 

Although I do hear the part about using a game controller.  I'll have to ponder it.  It should be simple enough to add.

 

The next update is planned to update my MCM config script to be language file compatible so that people interested in doing translations can do so.  If I add an option for a true Shout, it will be done in that update.

[Goubo]

I don't even have tried your Mod yet Dkatryl, nice to hear it is compatible with mine. ^^

 

Ha well, I don't even play Skyrim anymore besides testing lol, I have the Dragonborn DLC installed since it's out, never actually been in this new land.

[dkatryl]

I don't even have tried your Mod yet Dkatryl, nice to hear it is compatible with mine. ^^

 

Ha well, I don't even play Skyrim anymore besides testing lol, I have the Dragonborn DLC installed since it's out, never actually been in this new land.

 

Purely by accident of design, but what triggers mine is different than yours, so despite being similar in nature, people seem to be able to play both just fine and utilize different parts of each mod for whichever feature they prefer.  Works out well.

 

And I know nothing about spending more time tinkering with mods for a game than actually *playing* the game.  No... nothing at all...

 

It took me over 5 years of having Oblivion and actually having Skyrim sitting on my desk waiting to be installed before I actually decided, okay, it's time to stop fucking around with this thing and actually COMPLETE the main story for once.

 

Which is why I am definitely trying to wrap up things with this mod so I can consider it "done", which means, no major bugs outstanding to fix and no new features to add.

[Crate123]

 

 

I've discounted the combat mods at least, I still have the Dance of Death as another mod that messes up with kill moves that could potentially be causing issues, but I'm not entirely sure it's that either.

 

In any case, when I have the time I'll keep fiddling with my mods and see if I can find you the conflicting mod.

 

dkatryl has Dance of Death as well and it poses no problems for him so that shouldnt be it.

 

 

 

Just tested on 2 bandit outlaws, everything worked fine. It is now definately proven that its only the really low level bandits that cause problems for me.

 

Just a thought I had this morning that might be why it seems it only happens on low level bandits.

 

When you say low level bandits, I take it you just mean something that you can almost kill with one hit?  Versus something that is a higher level and may take several hits to whittle them down to the point where your success chance % is decent?

 

On the ones that take several hits, have you tried to carefully whittle them down so they were VERY low, like let them get into the bleedout state naturally, wait for them to stand up, then perform your submit attack of choice?

 

I'm curious if it is something related to their really low health, and given the low total health on a low level NPC, one good whack will put them down to this trigger point for whatever is conflicting, versus a higher level NPC that can easily be brought down to the range where you can use Submit properly but they have enough health left so they don't trigger whatever is conflicting.

 

If that makes sense to anyone but me.

 

Edit: Tonight, I'll try to remember to post my own personal mod list, so if nothing else, you can rule out all of those.

 

 

Yeah its the type of bandit where 1 weapon attack will pretty much kill them.

I will try that next time but its hard getting them that low, 1 second of Flames can sometimes kill them if it sets them on fire.

[dkatryl]

 

Yeah its the type of bandit where 1 weapon attack will pretty much kill them.

I will try that next time but its hard getting them that low, 1 second of Flames can sometimes kill them if it sets them on fire.

 

Naw, I don't mean the level 1 weak ones, I mean the higher level ones that can take a few hits.

 

I generally resort to weapon attacks to get them low, then shield bashing NPC's down to the bleedout state if I am testing crap like that.

 

Was just curious if the higher level ones that don't glitch out would glitch out if they were dropped really low (the bleed out state) which is where the level 1 bandits pretty much end up after the first hit before you can make them submit.

 

Just a hypothesis that whatever mod is interferring with the 'level 1' NPC's is somehow triggering off a really low flat HP level or something, and the higher level NPC's, even while wounded enough to be forced to submit, still don't drop to that low flat HP level because their total HP is too high.

 

Quick example with rough numbers:

Level 1 NPC.  50 HP

Level 20 NPC 500 HP

 

Hit either NPC for 40damage.

• Level 1 NPC = 50-40 = 10 HP left, is in danger of hitting bleedout territory, only 20% life left, easily submits.  Glitches out due to only have 10HP left.
• Level 20 NPC = 500-40 = 460 HP left.  They are barely scratched, keep on fighting.  They get hit 9 more times, they lose another 360HP, dropping them to 100HP left.  Now, proportionally, they are also only at 20% life left, but their 20% is still 10x the raw number as the first NPC.  (100 vs 10) So, even though they submit, they don't glitch out, because the glitch is happening at a very low flat number as opposed to a % of health.

Like I said, it's purely a hypothesis that might explain why it seems only level 1's glitch.

[Crate123]

Aaah ok, yeah I can give that a go.

[ttpt]

I've actually found out that something seems to be messing around with my stopcombat command. Since if I use it on an NPC with very low health, it will actually kill them, so using healing hands on them and then using stopcombat gets them to stop fighting without killing them, but it doesn't stop their aggression so they're still not talkable. And I have no idea how you could possibly alter the stopcombat command in the CK, or if it's even possibly, if it was then checking in TES5EDIT would be really easy.

 

Again, sorry, this is nothing wrong with your mod, but I'm really curious about it now and wanna get to the bottom of this.

 

EDIT: could also be messing with stopcombat with a flat HP value, so it could be related to the low level bandit stuff.

[dkatryl]

I've actually found out that something seems to be messing around with my stopcombat command. Since if I use it on an NPC with very low health, it will actually kill them, so using healing hands on them and then using stopcombat gets them to stop fighting without killing them, but it doesn't stop their aggression so they're still not talkable. And I have no idea how you could possibly alter the stopcombat command in the CK, or if it's even possibly, if it was then checking in TES5EDIT would be really easy.

 

Again, sorry, this is nothing wrong with your mod, but I'm really curious about it now and wanna get to the bottom of this.

 

EDIT: could also be messing with stopcombat with a flat HP value, so it could be related to the low level bandit stuff.

 

You may still need to SetAV Aggression 0 with the console, because an Aggression of 2 will still try to attack neutrals on sight.  However, no, StopCombat() should do 0 damage, so if *that* is killing them, then something is going wonky.  That sounds like something may be hitting them, doing slight damage, which makes them go OWW! RAWR! and re-agro,m or just killing them if really low.

 

Now, how (or WHY) someone could change that command with the CK, I have no idea.

 

Yeah, the low flat HP value is my working hypothesis of why it's only seeming to manifest on level 1 bandits.

 

Now, why some mod would do that with low HP NPC's, I have no idea, especially since *which* mod is the culprit is still unknown.  Maybe there's a mod floating out there that has a part that makes really low HP NPC's go into a frenzy instead of fleeing?  Who knows.

 

I am also quite interested in trying to find out what's causing it, because I can just see when I am ready to remove the sex parts, retitle it to just 'Submit', and upload to Nexus, and then dealing with this issue all over again over there!

[ttpt]

Yeah, I'm not even sure you can even change the command in the CK, is it even a script, what is it, I thought it was just a straight up function of the game. It's just really weird, it may just be triggering after any use of stopcombat with a script somehow.

 

And yeah, aggression is still 0, they stop fighting but the combat music is still on and the red dot still shows on the compass, when I actually stopcombat without killing them with it.

[dkatryl]

Yeah, I'm not even sure you can even change the command in the CK, is it even a script, what is it, I thought it was just a straight up function of the game. It's just really weird, it may just be triggering after any use of stopcombat with a script somehow.

 

And yeah, aggression is still 0, they stop fighting but the combat music is still on and the red dot still shows on the compass, when I actually stopcombat without killing them with it.

 

http://www.creationkit.com/StopCombat_-_Actor

 

It's part of the Actor Script, built into the game.  I don't see how you'd change it without changing some serious root level scripts that control how the game works.

 

It'd be on the level of my mod changing something in the Sexlab Framework, or in SKSE, or in SkyUI.

 

So I can't imagine the source function was changed.  Now, something affecting the NPC afterwards?  Sure, I can see that.  Not sure the purpose, but I could at least see that.

[ttpt]

All right, SKSE modifies the actor script and that's up to date. renaming it to something else so the game uses the default script didn't do anything.

 

However, disabling "battle fatigue and injuries" made me unable to kill actors with stopcombat. I was also getting a sort of reflect damage effect, like what you'd get from the last heavy armor perk (I don't have the perk), which also seems to be "battle fatigue and injuries" fault, Since you see, the mod recently updated and it added NPC injuries, I also remember submit working just fine just recently. I didn't fully remove the mod, just disabled it and the esp, Still, I can no longer kilt hem with stopcombat, so that's one mystery solved maybe.

[dkatryl]

I definitely don't use that mod, so that is consistent with why I don't experience it.

 

Here is my own mod list w/ load order so you guys can rule out what I use as the culprit.

 

 

Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
SPIKE.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
ApachiiHairMales.esm
SexLab.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
SkyUI.esp
SexLab Submit.esp
SexLab Romance.esp
Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp
The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
ImprovedScImpUniforms - Vanilla only.esp
WATER - Get Wet.esp
WATER.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Hair Tweaks.esp
Spousetocustomhome.esp
AncientDBarmorTSedition.esp
BarenziahQuestMarkers.esp
BatTravel.esp
Better Vampires.esp
Female Housecarls.esp
DG-NoAttacks.esp
EverlastingWeaponEnchant.esp
PlayerHomeMapMarkers.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
Daymon_Preset.esp
SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrim.esp
Lawrens RNG Guards.esp
3DNPC.esp
Inconsequential NPCs.esp
High Res Clothing.esp
hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
ImmersiveArmorsNPCs.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
FA Guard Helmet.esp
qSkillPerksSkyrim_All.esp
LocalizedGuildJobs.esp
My Tweaks.esp
Auto Health, Magicka and Stamina.esp

 

 

As you can see, I don't have a huge amount, and one of the only "combat" mods I have is Dance of Death and Dual Wield Parry, but they don't interfere at all.

 

***

 

On a separate subject, I did a trial sample on the first of the MCM options in a "Sexlab Submit_ENGLISH" translation file, and it worked and seemed rather straight forward.  So I'll probably have the "formatted to enable language translations" up soon.  If not tonight, then in the next few nights.  I don't have hardly the MCM stuff to put into a text file that the Framework has.

[ttpt]

Well, I can't kill them with stopcombat, but they're still untalkable, so I still need to find the bigger issue, I should maybe post my mod list too so we can compare

 

 

 

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
OblHairFinal.esm
RaceCompatibility.esm
BBLuxurySuite.esm
UndergroundBathhouse.esm
SkyMoMod.esm
SPIKE.esm
3rdEraWeaponsMoS.esm
TERAArmors.esm
SexLab.esm
NPCs of Dibella - Resources.esm
XFLMain.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Cazy Hairs-by zzjay.esp
RenHair.esp
Feminine Females.esp
Feminine Females Dawnguard.esp
NPCs of Dibella - Females - USKP.esp
PatchOutfit.esp
Brawl Bugs.esp
Chesko_Frostfall.esp
Birdsofskyrim.esp
Immersive Patrols.esp
Immersive Travelers.esp
MVABasic.esp
DynamicTorches.esp
ExpandedJewelryCrafting.esp
FishingInSkyrim.esp
GetNPCInfo.esp
SkyMoMod Lore-Friendly Purist.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
Unique BOOZE Bottles.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
WetandCold.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
SkyUI.esp
SkyTweak.esp
BBLSspouse.esp
hhRepeatingMiscellaneous.esp
=A ton of armor mods go here=
TERAArmors.esp
B&SArmorsCollection.esp
DA_XiNAVRO_BnS.esp
hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
ImmersiveArmorsNPCs.esp
TERAArmors - Leveled Lists.esp
3rdEraWeapMoS-lvlList.esp
BBLuxurySuiteExt.esp
BBLSapachii.esp
HHPotionsPoisons.esp
KillingTraps.esp
SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
dD-DG-DB-MonsterMod EBT Patch.esp
3DNPC.esp
Inconsequential NPCs.esp
kuerteeBattleFatigueAndInjuries.esp
DeadlyCombat.esp
The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp
UltimateCombat.esp
TKDodge.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp
RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp
RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp
RND_USKP-Patch.esp
ElderOutfit.esp
PTMageArmor.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim - Light.esp
LoversHook.esp
LoversComfort.esp
SexLabDefeat.esp
SexLab Romance.esp
SexLab Submit.esp
SexLabWorkingGirl.esp
SexLab Dangerously Nude.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
When Vampires Attack.esp
XFLDialogue.esp
XFLPlugins.esp
XFLTweaks.esp
BBLSHousecarlsmovein.esp
BBLSVisitors.esp
ub_apachii_hair.esp
BloodyFacials.esp
getSnowy.esp
[MPX] NPC Gender Race Heights +DG-DB.esp
PatchOutfitLVL.esp
PatchHHR.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
PatchSkyTEST.esp
PatchNPC.esp
PatchBOOZE.esp
PatchRace.esp
PatchDMesh.esp
PatchDragon.esp
PatchForge.esp
PatchArrow.esp
PatchContainer.esp
PatchBrawl.esp

 

 

[dkatryl]

Both you and Crate123 have waaaay more than I do, however, it looks like many of those that I have you also have.  Some of the ones are just little personal ones, like the ones called My Tweaks, Hair Tweaks, Daymon_Preset, but most of them were just easily downloadable from Nexus.

 

So, if you can safely rule out the ones that we both share, that only leaves the ones that we don't, which is still a lot of mods, but at least a bit less than starting with the whole list as suspects.

[dkatryl]

• 15JUL13, ~2108CST: 
• Converted the MCM text to a separate Sexlab Submit_ENGLISH text file template that can be used by those interested in doing translations.
• Those that make a translation file, attach them in a post in this thread and I will add them to the Interface folder inside the .BSA in future updates.

Small update on my part, for those that expressed an interest in translating the mod's MCM content.