ELI5: Since they all use Bodyslide, what is the functional difference between CBBE, BHUNP, TBD and the like?

[belegost]

Is it just the position of zeroed sliders relative to the body? Is it something else? Explain Like I'm Five please.

[Seijin8]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

Is it just the position of zeroed sliders relative to the body? Is it something else? Explain Like I'm Five please.

 

Nowadays, the only important difference is what textures they use, and which physics sets they are using.  CBBE and UUNP are the two types, everything else is a shape you can make with either one.

[mircislav]

Since they all use tires, what is the functional difference between BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and the like?

[belegost]

46 minutes ago, mircislav said:

Since they all use cars, what is the functional difference between BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and the like?

Since I have nothing useful to say, why say anything at all?

[mircislav]

13 minutes ago, belegost said:

Since I have nothing useful to say, why say anything at all?

Yep...

[V The Heretic]

It all comes down to personal preference. 

If you want outfit availability, use CBBE. (While UNP has quite a bit of options as well.) It's a universal shape wide amount of body textures available.

If you like smaller shaped, athletic builds to the body, UNP is your best bet. However, it uses it's own sliders, body shape and textures rendering it incompatible with anything related to CBBE.

If you want more busty, voluptuous and/or muscular bodies, TBD is what that is for. It's shape is naturally as such at zeroed body. Rendering it incompatible with all outfits made for CBBE and UNP and requires conversion to work with it. TBD requires higher poly counts to work with the body. However, it was UV mapped to work with CBBE based textures so people wanting to switch could keep using their favorite CBBE body textures. 

Reality is, CBBE, UNP and TBD differences are textures, shaping and sliders used for each body. You can attempt to get the shape of TBD with CBBE and UNP, but it won't ever be TBD. 

Below you can see the differences.

CBBE

Spoiler

 
UNP

Spoiler

TBD

Spoiler

 

[belegost]

5 hours ago, Swarm Queen said:

It all comes down to personal preference. 

If you want outfit availability, use CBBE. (While UNP has quite a bit of options as well.) It's a universal shape wide amount of body textures available.

If you like smaller shaped, athletic builds to the body, UNP is your best bet. However, it uses it's own sliders, body shape and textures rendering it incompatible with anything related to CBBE.

If you want more busty, voluptuous and/or muscular bodies, TBD is what that is for. It's shape is naturally as such at zeroed body. Rendering it incompatible with all outfits made for CBBE and UNP and requires conversion to work with it. TBD requires higher poly counts to work with the body. However, it was UV mapped to work with CBBE based textures so people wanting to switch could keep using their favorite CBBE body textures. 

Reality is, CBBE, UNP and TBD differences are textures, shaping and sliders used for each body. You can attempt to get the shape of TBD with CBBE and UNP, but it won't ever be TBD. 

Below you can see the differences.

CBBE

  Reveal hidden contents

 
UNP

  Reveal hidden contents

TBD

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I know the differences between looks and outfit availability, this is not what I was asking. I would like to know the more technical differences (not the actual process of making/converting but the idea behind it). Like what you said about textures.

 

For example, I know that BHUNP can in some cases be used with CBBE 3BA bodies as they have the same bones and physics (or at least this is what I read, I may have misunderstood) and it will sort-of fit. I have been using basic UNP on Oldrim many years ago, but nowdays I use CBBE due to outfit availability and recently I switched (or upgraded, not sure about relation here) to 3BA. I was wondering though what is it that makes outfits incompatible? Is it only body shape? Because I assume that in many cases the only difference is the body shape, so in theory if you play with sliders long enough you can make a BHUNP outift look good on CBBE body. Same with TBD, since its defining quality seems to be mostly the size of ass and boobs, so in theory you can make a TBD shape in CBBE. Is that correct or am I widely off the mark here?

 

What I don't get is the texture part. I presume if the shapes conform to each other, the outfits should look okay-ish even on a body not designed for them. What exactly does conversion entail?

 

I know this may sound like stupid questions, but I'm trying to understand the basics here and why there are so many standards if (at least to me) it looks like the differences are pretty superficial.

[V The Heretic]

2 hours ago, belegost said:

 

I know the differences between looks and outfit availability, this is not what I was asking. I would like to know the more technical differences (not the actual process of making/converting but the idea behind it). Like what you said about textures.

 

For example, I know that BHUNP can in some cases be used with CBBE 3BA bodies as they have the same bones and physics (or at least this is what I read, I may have misunderstood) and it will sort-of fit. I have been using basic UNP on Oldrim many years ago, but nowdays I use CBBE due to outfit availability and recently I switched (or upgraded, not sure about relation here) to 3BA. I was wondering though what is it that makes outfits incompatible? Is it only body shape? Because I assume that in many cases the only difference is the body shape, so in theory if you play with sliders long enough you can make a BHUNP outift look good on CBBE body. Same with TBD, since its defining quality seems to be mostly the size of ass and boobs, so in theory you can make a TBD shape in CBBE. Is that correct or am I widely off the mark here?

 

What I don't get is the texture part. I presume if the shapes conform to each other, the outfits should look okay-ish even on a body not designed for them. What exactly does conversion entail?

 

I know this may sound like stupid questions, but I'm trying to understand the basics here and why there are so many standards if (at least to me) it looks like the differences are pretty superficial.

So, from a technical stand point. 

From this, what makes outfits incompatible for use across body types is their slider setup, bones they use and weighting. So, while CBBE has standard, Physics, 3BA, etc. They are all the same shape, probably the same slider setup, but the weighting and bones used are all different. UNP is incompatible due to not only shape, but sliders and most likely weighting as well. Same with TBD since it's a different shape entirely. In the process say for me converting from CBBE to TBD, I have to increase the vertice count of the outfit to offset for the morph changes otherwise it will become rigid instead of being smooth. You can reshape the outfit to fit a different body. So, essentially you can fit it to UNP or back to CBBE, etc. There are conversion references out there that makes this process easier. (TBD has a entire conversion method to achieve quality results.) Essentially you would take the outfit, fit it to the body you want and conform the outfit objects to the sliders of that specific body type you are converting to so you can use it with a different body type. Now if you want physics, you'll need to add the bones of the physics body you use to the outfit so when say HDT-SMP config goes to animate the bones, it will respond properly and not look like it's turbo clipping.  

Yes, you can achieve the zeroed slider shape of AB with CBBE or UNP. But, I don't really see a point of doing that when the body shape already exists. 

The texture part is UV Mapping. UNP and CBBE by default do not have the same UV Map. So that being said, if you put CBBE Textures on UNP body, it will look screwed up and vice versa. (I'm sure you know this.) TBD is the exception where it's UV Mapped the same as CBBE, but incompatible with UNP textures due to it being a different UV map.

As for why there are so many standards, I think they just came from the whole, "Which body mod is best." The differences just come down to which body mod is right for you, to achieve what you want at the end of the day. 

[MonVert]

BHUNP is UUNP; so, technically, you have four shapes to work with.

[belegost]

4 hours ago, Swarm Queen said:

So, from a technical stand point. 

From this, what makes outfits incompatible for use across body types is their slider setup, bones they use and weighting. So, while CBBE has standard, Physics, 3BA, etc. They are all the same shape, probably the same slider setup, but the weighting and bones used are all different. UNP is incompatible due to not only shape, but sliders and most likely weighting as well. Same with TBD since it's a different shape entirely. In the process say for me converting from CBBE to TBD, I have to increase the vertice count of the outfit to offset for the morph changes otherwise it will become rigid instead of being smooth. You can reshape the outfit to fit a different body. So, essentially you can fit it to UNP or back to CBBE, etc. There are conversion references out there that makes this process easier. (TBD has a entire conversion method to achieve quality results.) Essentially you would take the outfit, fit it to the body you want and conform the outfit objects to the sliders of that specific body type you are converting to so you can use it with a different body type. Now if you want physics, you'll need to add the bones of the physics body you use to the outfit so when say HDT-SMP config goes to animate the bones, it will respond properly and not look like it's turbo clipping.  

Yes, you can achieve the zeroed slider shape of AB with CBBE or UNP. But, I don't really see a point of doing that when the body shape already exists. 

The texture part is UV Mapping. UNP and CBBE by default do not have the same UV Map. So that being said, if you put CBBE Textures on UNP body, it will look screwed up and vice versa. (I'm sure you know this.) TBD is the exception where it's UV Mapped the same as CBBE, but incompatible with UNP textures due to it being a different UV map.

As for why there are so many standards, I think they just came from the whole, "Which body mod is best." The differences just come down to which body mod is right for you, to achieve what you want at the end of the day. 

 

Interesting.

 

Does TBD have sliders? Can you change the size and shape of body parts? In all screenshots of TBD I have seen so far the bodies all look the same, whereas in case of CBBE, UNP/BHUNP the bodies can be different. Do all of them just use the same Bodyslide or does one have its own application that's totally separate?

[V The Heretic]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

 

Interesting.

 

Does TBD have sliders? Can you change the size and shape of body parts? In all screenshots of TBD I have seen so far the bodies all look the same, whereas in case of CBBE, UNP/BHUNP the bodies can be different. Do all of them just use the same Bodyslide or does one have its own application that's totally separate?

This is because it's a showcase of the close to default body. However, yes it does come with sliders. No, it's not a separate program. It uses bodyslide as well. 

Below is different shapes achievable with TBD.

Spoiler

 

[belegost]

5 hours ago, Swarm Queen said:

This is because it's a showcase of the close to default body. However, yes it does come with sliders. No, it's not a separate program. It uses bodyslide as well. 

Below is different shapes achievable with TBD.

  Hide contents

 

I understand (I think).

 

Thank you, that very informative conversation.

[V The Heretic]

No problem!

[Supra.]

I suppose the guy is asking that because he is (probably, not sure) in front of problems with the use of bodyslide. 

 

I confess i have myself sometimes some difficulties to uderstand the subtilities, beetween the bodies. 

 

And how to adjust correctly some stuff to the femalebody.

 

Between the stuff, who sometimes not appear correctly on the screen, the blue face, the dark face, the polyshape of the face, the "how to use a female or male preset", etc, we should confess the use of bodyslide is not so easy to understand. 

 

I am myself a french user of skyrim, skyrim Se, etc, and i meet often some friends who are all asking me "why the items XXtoto is well adapted to my own character, but not fit correctly on my lydia replacer, or onto my slaves..." - I am sure you have all always meet that kind of problems... or.. "Why the old grandma in to skyrim are so  sexy when i fuck them, they all seem to have a body llike if they were only 28 years old, but the faces are still ke grandma... (after a changing of the female body, of course, not into the vanilla..)

 

Sometimes, modders too, are putting some tons of preset into the body case, which make for us difficulties, to know if we should adapt the items for us, of for a follower. 

And what about the assets... Some have no idea what is an asset, for example, and doesn't understand why some stuff appears correctly after installing a mod, and why, (especially for ZAZ, Devious devices Suite etc, Sunjeong lot of suit, are still invisible....)

 

Difficulties too, when the lydia replace, (for example) is not using the femalebody standard, but nother one into another subdir...

 

Trying to explain them to find the famle body into the subdir, then switch it iinto the normal dir, but before, remembering to save the "normal cbbe body - femalebody 0 & 1", then, make some adaptative for the second female body, save it, then reswitch the feale body just made for the lydia into her own dir, etc, and don't forgot to re-iinsert into the normal dir the "standard body that they use" etc etc etc... 

 

It's a real shit.  And after that, now, since 10 years, we find CBBE, UNP, UUNP, Seven base, BHUNP, etc etc and lot of i should probably forgot...

 

Perhaps it will be good to take a big think about this tool, and to try to remake a new one, with more simplicity, for the users. 

 

Don't forget too, that even if lot of you are well speaking or reading in english, for others, it's really difficult to understand.

 

Perhaps too, making in some native translations for use, and a really clear and simple "how to use manual, in different languages, could be a good thing...

 

Just a small share of my modest experience like helper for lot of youngs SkyrimGamers.

 

Respectability yours,

 

Supra...

 

[belegost]

2 hours ago, Supra. said:

I suppose the guy is asking that because he is (probably, not sure) in front of problems with the use of bodyslide. 

 

No, I was just curious.