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Blender 2.92 - decimate and triangulate AND UV map


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Hoping someone could help me with a tip.

 

I have schlong models on my harddrive I wish to use. Problem is that they har extreme high poly and not suitable for Skyrim at all. Some consists of 300 000 vertices (hand they have quad polygons) or more. Now I don't know much, except for the fact that I need to use the decimate modifier to reduce the numbers of vertices/polygons. I'm thinking I should go for 2000-3000 vertices for giant/troll sized schlong.

 

Question: Should I decimate the mesh with the quad polygons it has? Or should I triangulate the mesh first to get rid of quads? Or does it even matter?

 

Reason I ask is because if I use the decimate modifier to achieve the number of vertices I want, it looks like this afterwards. All faces are totally unsymmetrical.

 

Or maybe there is something I'm missing here?

 

 

 

dong.thumb.png.315b25c08a9eb166598f2dd8c77c9274.png

 

comparison.png

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Allright I am answering myself.... I re-did it. Decimated it and keeping faces as Quads through the decimate operation. Then triangulated the faces afterwards. Looks much better now.  Question is, how many vertices is too much?!? I ended on 6000 for this model ?

 

 

new.png

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Vertices or polygons are relatively uninteresting.
The triangles are decisive -64k is the maximum per mesh.
But to be frank - these meshes are really very poor in detail -
it would be easiest to create a new mesh.
In Blender in particular, this isn't a big deal.

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I'm using 2.8, but looks similar. You need to go to edges and clear sharps, then vertex and merge by distance... low number, perhaps .0001 or .00001. Then mesh tab, shading smooth faces and normals average face area. For the UV, you can try right keypad views... left, right etc and UV project from view, but is not great. Other is to make a seam from base to tip and use split vertices, then use unwrap UV.

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19 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Vertices or polygons are relatively uninteresting.
The triangles are decisive -64k is the maximum per mesh.

Thanks that was very useful for me to know. Thanks. Yeah I have decimated the mesh with collapse from 1.00 and down to 0.01. So no wonder the details is gone.

I want to make my own models in the future, but right now I'm just learning the administrative steps.

16 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

I'm using 2.8, but looks similar. You need to go to edges and clear sharps, then vertex and merge by distance... low number, perhaps .0001 or .00001. Then mesh tab, shading smooth faces and normals average face area. For the UV, you can try right keypad views... left, right etc and UV project from view, but is not great. Other is to make a seam from base to tip and use split vertices, then use unwrap UV.

Thanks for all this. Did find all those settings in 2.92. I also tried the make a seam function yesterday and it solved my issue with the UV map not joining together ?. So horray!

 

BUT... In every god damn model I choose to export to OBJ this happens: A terrible seam that seams to split the UV map in such a noticable way that it ruins everything. First I thought it was the "decimate" operation that did this (the reason why I started editing those UV maps in the first place).

 

Now I am not so sure what causes this. The model below is downloaded from here: https://smutba.se/project/67/

I opened it, everything looks fine. Didn't do anything but export it as OBJ and import to outfitstudio (I haven't learned rigging in Blender yet so I do it in OS)

 

Now it looks fucked up to put i frankly. It seams to me it is the UV map seam that is visual here on the OBJ. The pattern looks the same.

 

What am I doing wrong? Cause this happens to every model I export to obj. I've attached a screeny of my export settings too.

 

 

noticable seam.png

obj export settings.png

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41 minutes ago, Thor2000 said:

 

Now it looks fucked up to put i frankly. It seams to me it is the UV map seam that is visual here on the OBJ. The pattern looks the same.

 

What am I doing wrong? Cause this happens to every model I export to obj. I've attached a screeny of my export settings too.

 

Never use Spilt Vertices to create a UV seam.
In the Decimate Modifier you should use UV as Delimeter.
Alternatively, you can create new textures in Blender.

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1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

Never use Spilt Vertices to create a UV seam.
In the Decimate Modifier you should use UV as Delimeter.
Alternatively, you can create new textures in Blender.

But I didn't do anything with this model above. I just opened it and exported it as obj and it looks like it does.

 

I'll try out that UV as delimiter. But then I must use the planar function instead of collapse. I'll try. But I don't think that is the reason for that split seam you see on the  OS screenshot.

 

EDITED: Nope I was wrong... that ugly seam changes when I try different UV seam locations... So I'm going to continue failing and trying... sigh....

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5 hours ago, Thor2000 said:

A terrible seam that seams to split the UV map in such a noticable way

I would start fresh. A new model in quads. That way, you can find a straight seam. Split it, project the UV, merge vertices and then decimate. 

 

I rarely work with anything with that many vertices. I do Sims 3, which hates high polycount, so keeping it down is common. I have managed a couple of conversions to TS3 of high poly meshes and reduced the count, but didn't need to remap. Other original meshes I have created, I have mapped and remapped in the way I described.

 

Not sure what you refer to by the ugly seam? The red line??? That is merely Blender showing you where the seam is and setting it as being a seam to be blended.

 

Anyway, another reducing program is BalancerNPro https://www.atangeo.com/buy/nPro . I have the free version, but you may need a pay version if your work is above the free polycount.

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4 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

Not sure what you refer to by the ugly seam? The red line??? That is merely Blender showing you where the seam is and setting it as being a seam to be blended.

It is the line you see in the screeny from outfitstudio. It's identical to the red "seam" you mention in blender. The thing is, I can put whatever texture on the schlong. That line or artifact, or whatever will still show. It's like its baked inside the mesh.  It still shows when I export as FBX.

 

This model is small in its origin. Only 2792 vertices (454 faces), and I'm not changing anything on it. Just opening the blend file and export.

 

Would you mind taking a look at it? There must be something I'm doing wrong here since it happens to all models I export. This never happened to me with blender 2.79. But I can't seem to open these blend files with that version.

 

 

exportedFBX.png

demon_dildo_and_onahole.blend

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4 hours ago, Thor2000 said:

I can't seem to open these blend files with that version

I honestly don't work with .blend files at all, but was able to look at the mesh in 2.8 as wavefront object. What I see goes to what I was saying before, that you may need to start with the original mesh in quads to find your split point for the UV and avoid the jagged edged seam. You may even split the top, as it may be easier to match the image texture to the UV from that angle.

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10 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

I honestly don't work with .blend files at all, but was able to look at the mesh in 2.8 as wavefront object. What I see goes to what I was saying before, that you may need to start with the original mesh in quads to find your split point for the UV and avoid the jagged edged seam. You may even split the top, as it may be easier to match the image texture to the UV from that angle.

I tried it.... no difference. Only the ugly seam was just moved to another place according to the new position of the UV seam I made.

 

It's so god damn strange. I just exported this orc model as a obj. It has plenty of UV seams... But it's perfect compared to the schlong models.

Sigh... I'm going to do some blender monkey tuts before I continue with this one.... god knows how many hours spend....

 

AND: Huge thanks for your help. I learned a lot :)

 

orc.png

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3 hours ago, Thor2000 said:

I tried it.... no difference. Only the ugly seam was just moved to another place according to the new position of the UV seam I made.

When working with Blender and Outfit Studion, you should use Obj - in both directions. Not FBX.
Open your Nif in Outfit Studio. Right click in the right object overview on the Mesh -> Export as Obj.

 

 

Open Blender (I'm using 2.79) and import the mesh.
Import
Set two things correctly:
- Axes: Z = Up and Y = Foreward
- Keep Vertex Order

 

 


Export form Blender (obj)
- Selection Only
- axes as with import (see above)
- Apply modifiers
- Include edges
- Write normals
- Include UV's
Do not check any other options.


The triangulation is done automatically in Outfit Studio.

 

First step after importing into Blender (since you want to change the vertex topology anyway):

First switch to Edit Mode (Vertices) in Blender and select all Veritces (A key) -> Remove Doubles


Then you can start with modifiers (decimates etc.)

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3 hours ago, Thor2000 said:

I just exported this orc model as a obj. It has plenty of UV seams... But it's perfect

 

4 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

When working with Blender and Outfit Studion, you should use Obj - in both directions.

Perhaps the deficiencies of my limited knowledge, as I only work with wavefront object and simgeom. I usually import as simgeom and export as both. Object is mostly seamless, geom has bone references.

 

Meshing for other games, I did not know what format is required, that object only could be used. As you write, is how JoshQ told me to set my object export.

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if you want to prepare this for skyrim, you should be keeping to the rule to avoid unnecessary mesh-points. You can compare bethesdas meshes with mostly all which come from modders and very often, modders do not care about saving the engine against high-poly-meshes.

This imid- and higher poy-objects are working mostly in those cases, if they are huge or big but if they have a HQ poly-structure in a small place, the engine is loosing performance, specially in the case if a heavy ENB-setup is being used. Together with some other heavy-weighting meshes and textures and also some heavy scripting, the game answeres with this mod-additions with a crash. The smaller the assets become in skyrim and the more polygons they have, the harder it becomes for the engine to produce good framerates. If objects are too much high-poly, the skyrim-engine drops frames just down to zero and it takes a while for the picture to get rid of the "freeze". As soon the cam is pulled out of focus of such objects, the engine might be working again with more higher frames and the gameplay can being continued.

 

If you have straight clean forms, you can use basic (primitive) geometric forms and mix them with some few more complex poly-forms, to obtain nearly a similar shape of your desired asset. Depending on the quality of algorithm of the mesh-optimization, a shape like this can be reduced to less then 200 polygons without any shape-loss.

If you want your output of work to become a symmetrical asset, you can cut it basically to the half, work on the half side and later duplicate it and mirror this duplication again to your beworked shape then and weld it all together as one object again.

It ´s then no bad idea to create the mesh-painting by using substance-painter or suiting plug-ins for your app, if available. Apart from that mentioned software, you can also check out some FREE software for UV and mesh-painting as well, which will give you also very cute and professional results.

 

If your assets have to be WEIGHTED (if it is rigged/boned/part of physics-behavior) you have to construct the mesh-build in such a way, that the weighting or boning of your asset will be ideal working. In this case your asset should be rigged in your 3d-app as well, so to get an impression about the stretching-ability and to watch how it will be deforming in extremal angles. And if necessary you need to add more surfaces to allow the wanted bend-factors during weight-painting. This last point is also very important if for example a skeleton ´s skin for new bodies are being weightpainted, so to see how the mesh is acting with any sort of animations.

 

If you use a gamebryo-exporter for BLENDER, it is possible, that your spended output product will be TRIANGULATED, which means, it is prepared in any case to be compatible with SKYRIM. (Quad-meshes might be all tringulated automatically after the export from blender-but I am not sure if it is in that way-you can see the result in NIFSCOPE)

In that case you can build a quad-mesh in blender. Quad-mesh creation is from my point of view the way how primitive geometrical objects are all generated in 3d-apps and it is the normal way how I work during mesh-creation with 3dsmax and maya.

 

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17 hours ago, Andy14 said:

When working with Blender and Outfit Studion, you should use Obj - in both directions. Not FBX.
Open your Nif in Outfit Studio. Right click in the right object overview on the Mesh -> Export as Obj.

 

 

Open Blender (I'm using 2.79) and import the mesh.
Import
Set two things correctly:
- Axes: Z = Up and Y = Foreward
- Keep Vertex Order

 

 


Export form Blender (obj)
- Selection Only
- axes as with import (see above)
- Apply modifiers
- Include edges
- Write normals
- Include UV's
Do not check any other options.


The triangulation is done automatically in Outfit Studio.

 

First step after importing into Blender (since you want to change the vertex topology anyway):

First switch to Edit Mode (Vertices) in Blender and select all Veritces (A key) -> Remove Doubles


Then you can start with modifiers (decimates etc.)

Allright. I gave it a new try with the simple dong version from my post #12 and I followed the steps you gave here, Andy.

 

Only thing I didn't do was to add modifiers since there wasn't any need for it on this model. It had only 2700 vertices and 5454 faces. I did not change the UV amp either but used the ones together with the textures provided in the blend file. 

 

Here's the results. It's looking better than before. The UV seam is still visible, but ingame mostly in the cleavage between the balls. This area looks a bit mesy inside blender too. If the model should be used it would need to be cleaned up I think.

 

I'm satisfied of the process here. I learned a lot.

 

I used to check "write materials" in obj settings in blender. Could that be the reason why I got that ugly seam in post #12?

 

16 hours ago, t.ara said:

if you want to prepare this for skyrim, you should be keeping to the rule to avoid unnecessary mesh-points. You can compare bethesdas meshes with mostly all which come from modders and very often, modders do not care about saving the engine against high-poly-meshes.

This imid- and higher poy-objects are working mostly in those cases, if they are huge or big but if they have a HQ poly-structure in a small place, the engine is loosing performance, specially in the case if a heavy ENB-setup is being used. Together with some other heavy-weighting meshes and textures and also some heavy scripting, the game answeres with this mod-additions with a crash. The smaller the assets become in skyrim and the more polygons they have, the harder it becomes for the engine to produce good framerates. If objects are too much high-poly, the skyrim-engine drops frames just down to zero and it takes a while for the picture to get rid of the "freeze". As soon the cam is pulled out of focus of such objects, the engine might be working again with more higher frames and the gameplay can being continued.

 

If you have straight clean forms, you can use basic (primitive) geometric forms and mix them with some few more complex poly-forms, to obtain nearly a similar shape of your desired asset. Depending on the quality of algorithm of the mesh-optimization, a shape like this can be reduced to less then 200 polygons without any shape-loss.

If you want your output of work to become a symmetrical asset, you can cut it basically to the half, work on the half side and later duplicate it and mirror this duplication again to your beworked shape then and weld it all together as one object again.

It ´s then no bad idea to create the mesh-painting by using substance-painter or suiting plug-ins for your app, if available. Apart from that mentioned software, you can also check out some FREE software for UV and mesh-painting as well, which will give you also very cute and professional results.

 

If your assets have to be WEIGHTED (if it is rigged/boned/part of physics-behavior) you have to construct the mesh-build in such a way, that the weighting or boning of your asset will be ideal working. In this case your asset should be rigged in your 3d-app as well, so to get an impression about the stretching-ability and to watch how it will be deforming in extremal angles. And if necessary you need to add more surfaces to allow the wanted bend-factors during weight-painting. This last point is also very important if for example a skeleton ´s skin for new bodies are being weightpainted, so to see how the mesh is acting with any sort of animations.

 

If you use a gamebryo-exporter for BLENDER, it is possible, that your spended output product will be TRIANGULATED, which means, it is prepared in any case to be compatible with SKYRIM. (Quad-meshes might be all tringulated automatically after the export from blender-but I am not sure if it is in that way-you can see the result in NIFSCOPE)

In that case you can build a quad-mesh in blender. Quad-mesh creation is from my point of view the way how primitive geometrical objects are all generated in 3d-apps and it is the normal way how I work during mesh-creation with 3dsmax and maya.

 

Thanks for this t.ara. I've read like it 3-4 times already and will probably come back to it for reference. I still have a way to go when it comes to rigging in Blender. But I'll get there.

ScreenShot831.png

ScreenShot832.png

Untitled.png

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28 minutes ago, Thor2000 said:

The UV seam is still visible

This does not necessarily have to be due to the mesh.
Even if the normal map / texture has too little margin, seams arise.
By the way: You can also edit the UV in Nifskope.
Right click on the NiTriShape in Block List-> Texture-> Edit UV.
In the UV editor you can move vertices etc. Right-click in the UV editor has further options

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9 hours ago, Thor2000 said:

If the model should be used it would need to be cleaned up I think.

Seeing in game, you may wish to try manually adjusting just that area of the mesh. Use image overlay as you work, and you can see what your changes do in real time. You can merge a few of the vertices. Also to move the seam edges as they may be a matter of the way the image projects and does not match on both sides of the seam.

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I'm just thinking loud here, but is symmetrical objects easier to get "pretty" in game? It makes sense to me to put the UV seam directly on that axis that has symmetri on both sides. Specially with regards to lightning etc... but maybe I'm just a noob talking rubbish?

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