Wow. Making armor is HARD...

[Arizona_Steve]

Seriously, how do you guys do it?

 

I have managed to create an armor mesh and have exported it to a .nif file and made (what I believe to be) the necessary adjustments in NifSkope. But I can't seem to get this working in-game without crashing Skyrim. I've used both the Caliente Bodyslide tutorial and the guide on wiki.tesnexus.com.

 

I suspect it's either my export settings or something that I'm doing wrong in NifSkope. Any ideas? Or is there a more recent tutorial out there that covers the latest changes in NifSkope (I'm seeing some differences between the screen shots in the tutorials and my (latest) version of NifSkope).

[Phygnos]

Hah. Add me to this list. I've spent about 20h just trying to port an armor from Oblivion. I didn't even create the design, just trying to port it.

So. damn. complicated.

 

I want to cry

[Arizona_Steve]

I have to say (and I make my living programming) that I'm surprised at how long it's taking to get Skyrim support into NifSkope and the Blender import/export. I'm sure there's a reason for it, but the length of time it's taking still surprises me.

[asianboy345]

It takes time in the beginning since you're just learning and getting familiar with all the tools, but once you successfully does it, then it just get easier as time goes on (minus a few exceptions, but that's also part of learning)

 

Here's a very good tutorial that will teaches you how to work with Skyrim armor http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/19249. Starts out easy with converting an armor from one body to another (CBBE to UNP for example) and then move up to converting armors from Oblivion to Skyrim, then from another non-ES game (like Dragon Age) to Skyrim, and then finally learn how to make your own  mesh from scratch. This tutorial teaches you everything. It's also in youtube format, so it's easy to follow.

 

This tutorial was the one that taught me how to mod armors. And now I am able to make stuffs like this: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/25846/

 

Give it some time and patience and you can easily do the same

[Arizona_Steve]

LOL, three attempts so far this evening and no luck. Either the armor didn't show up at all or the game crashed. No easy way to figure out what is wrong.

[Synthesis]

If it makes you feel better, it sounds like you got farther than me.

 

I've been trying to bring over the Arshes Nei armor to a Skyrim skeleton--I can't even do a flat-out transfer in Blender, much less fit it to a body I use. 

[Arizona_Steve]

Mine was created from scratch. Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew here...

[Rayblue]

It takes time in the beginning since you're just learning and getting familiar with all the tools, but once you successfully does it, then it just get easier as time goes on (minus a few exceptions, but that's also part of learning)

 

Here's a very good tutorial that will teaches you how to work with Skyrim armor http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/19249. Starts out easy with converting an armor from one body to another (CBBE to UNP for example) and then move up to converting armors from Oblivion to Skyrim, then from another non-ES game (like Dragon Age) to Skyrim, and then finally learn how to make your own  mesh from scratch. This tutorial teaches you everything. It's also in youtube format, so it's easy to follow.

 

This tutorial was the one that taught me how to mod armors. And now I am able to make stuffs like this: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/25846/

 

Give it some time and patience and you can easily do the same

 

Thanks, I really need that as I'm trying to create footwear for an otherwise incomplete Osare school uniform ensemble that anano had left out.

[irysius]

Mine was created from scratch. Maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew here...

 

Just an observation, I do not know what the state of your files are.

 

Missing model - this sometimes occur when you only have a _1 and not a _0 attached to your ArmorAddon object.

 

CTD - if you DID have a _0 but removed it (because it was causing CTDs on equip, for example), the body blocks should have its name be Body.001 or something as opposed to _1 which is whatever custom body you are doing it for (not on the computer with nifskope so can't check).

 

These are suggestions that are shots in the dark (again, pure conjecture based on what you're describing).

[Arizona_Steve]

Not that, I've been making the _0 version of the armor and then copying it to _1 for testing purposes (I believe the _1 version is used for the ArmorAddOn and the _0 is picked up silently by the game). Maybe I should post what I have for one of the experts here to check out.

 

I'll take another shot at it this morning, then post what I have...

[R0R0N0]

It's always hard at the start, when you're just getting yourself familiar with the interface and tools etc. but once you get the hang of it, things become easier and less time consuming. I remember my first port took like 2 days but now I can port something in 3 hours maximum, it only becomes longer when you miss a step.

You just have to keep at it, and you'll notice you learn a new thing everytime you do something wrong and find a way around it, it's awesome!

[Synthesis]

If anyone gets past that two day point--or even just to it--let me know. I'll happily give you something to practice on! 

[Galacticat42]

Huh. Been pretty easy for me. Few months ago I made a mace and put it in the game with relative ease. Armors shouldn't be all that different from weapons.

 

If a new Nifskope release is your problem, then I'd upload my Nifskope setup. However I'm not sure if that's allowed.

[JohnHead444]

If your using blender I could Help. But as far as nif scope goes theres a lot of things you have to do to get the armor working. So here it goes....

 

After exporting the armor open it up. There should be block list Block details and the 3d screen. First thing you need to do is click on the arrow next to (NiHeader) in the block details.  Then where you see 

 

user Version      unit  11

Num Block ????

User version 2  unit   34

 

Change it to this....

 

user version      unit 12

Num block         Don't change this

User version     unit  83

 

Do that and save the file. Then Close it. now open it again and there will be extra data out side of the main name in the block List. So if your block list looks like this...

 

0 NiNode                                     Txt Scene root

 

Any thing out side of that can be deleted. Right click on the extra data and go to block. Scroll down to remove Branch.  Now click on the armor  and in the block list you will want to click the arrow next to the name of your armor.  Click on (BSDismemberSkinInst...)  In the block detail scroll down to the bottom where you see partitions. Then click on the arrow for this. Then you will see another partition list or 2 maybe more that have more arrows to click But lets say theres just one. Now click on the arrow for the "one" partition that probably says BP_TORSO.  Double click on this until its highlighted and change it to 32. This number is for body and feet are 37 hands are 33 I think but there are more that I'm not sure what there numbers are.  Now your partly there.

 

Now if this armor is ported then you will need to put a texture from skyrim onto the armor first and manually put in the correct textures. Open up another nif file and click on the armor or peice of armor in the nif file. Click the arrow on  (BSShaderPPLightingP...)  then click on (BBShaderTextureSet)... Down in the block details you will see the textures. Click on the arrow for textures in the block list. If you see more then 2 file don't use that texture. Try finding one that only has 2 being .dds and _msn.dds. Once youve found your textures right click on (BSShaderPPLightingP...) and copy branch. Then paste it onto your armor. The new texture will show up at the bottom of the block list. Click on your armor and in block details scroll down to property's. Then click on the arrow and where you see(Ref<NiNOject>    Change the none box next to it to the number of the new texture... So if the new texture looks like this

 

 

23 BSLightingShaderProperty

 

Change it to 23. Now your new armor is done for the most part. I would save and finish up.   Now we need to put the new armor in a differnt nif file. So why not use male or female body file. You can use malebody_1.nif or the 0 it doesn't matter until you go to make the bigger and smaller versions. If the armor going to be placed over top of the body then leave it there. if not right click on the body parts and remove branch. First copy the name in the top header in the block list by clicking on it and in the very top of the Block detail list click on the TXT next to the name to get a box to copy the name....  then do the same thing in your nif file and paste it onto the main name.... Go to your nif file and right click on the armor in the 3d window and copy branch. then go to the body nif file and paste branch over top of the main name in the block list. Now if you use the body nif file change the name of your armor to the malebody:1 to malebody:2. Skyrim all about a name game and when you don't keep thing neat and clean the game becomes unstable.  so that should about do it. put your new armor in the game and see what happens  Good Luck......... 

[Demonhunter]

hi ive just got my first armor in game after ages of trying aswell i used blender 2.65 to make the model then a lower version of blender to import nif files. if anything it takes time. also if your using custom skeletons and such make sure to make good use of the scripts window. pm me if you want an i can try to explain how i got it.

[Deedlit]

im still learning 3ds max, but guys if wanna learn look here at nightasy tutorials (ik at first its simple ulgy armors, but you dnt expect create a special thing at first lol, its to learn the basics) youtube link http://www.youtube.com/user/NightasyTutorials/videos?sort=p&view=0&tag_id= (at least its free and easy to undestand) and theres also hes oficial site www.nightasy.com (need pay)  im using that, really easy to undestand, btw its exact same tutorials from youtube (free), so up with you.

[Synthesis]

Huh. Been pretty easy for me. Few months ago I made a mace and put it in the game with relative ease. Armors shouldn't be all that different from weapons.

 

If a new Nifskope release is your problem, then I'd upload my Nifskope setup. However I'm not sure if that's allowed.

 

I can't speak for others, but it's not Nifskope, but modifying the meshes in Blender where I stall. Unlike is usually the case with weapons, there's a certain amount of changing meshes to convert armors over. 

[Demonhunter]

Making armor is nothing like making weapons. Weapons apart from bows have no skin partations, Bone weighting etc. Adding weapons is very easy provided you know the process. Armor on the other hand are a totally different ball game.

[thatTESguy]

Yea, rigging. it would be nice if commercial rigging tools like BonesPro and such could actually be used, but alas you'll have to stick with the Skyrim skeleton. That means a lot of frustration when trying to determine which out of 10000 vertices is clipping because the weight is 0.5 instead of 0.05. Joints are a whole another problem.

 

These days though, textures take up most of my time. Especially upscaling, doing an nDo pass, adding detail, doing a ddO pass, fixing remaining bugs, etc etc.

[canderes]

Actually bones pro can be used. The plugin from figment causes all kinds of problems with the envelopes and pretty much destroys the skinning on the mesh when you try to import it from your original modifier. If you use these: http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3845 It works fine.

 

This is the method I use for adding bones to a model that already has skinned applied:

 

The best way to work it I found was to make a copy of the original mesh if you are going to rerig something, import the skin from your original to bones pro. If you are going to add bones to skin add them  to your old skin modifier before you do an import on bones pro. I use the soft selection in vertex mode mostly; the paint weights works ok, but vertex mode w soft selection seems to be easier to do. Export your skin on the new mesh. One problem it creates is that it inflates your new skinned mesh slightly, but you can fix it by using your other copy of the mesh; do collapse to on the skin modifier so it collapses to the edit mesh. Remove bsdismember from that one and then add a morph modifier on top of your newly rigged mesh. Select the original mesh in the morpher modifier, set it to 100 % then collapse the morpher modifier to the edit mesh.

 

 

If you are rigging from scratch use the plugin from theru. You wanna use that version of the importer because it uses dummy helpers instead of bones to import the skeleton. Since it uses dummy instead of bones it puts the envelopes right at the center of each dummy. You don't have to worry about that weird issue from the old importer where the envelopes are all pointing in weird directions.

 

After you export a skin though something you want to do in either case is go to the skin modifier and set the max numbers of bones per vertex to 4. It always defaults to 20 for some reason and if you try to export a nif it will crash as soon as you press the ok button.

 

I keep the figment plugin on 32bit max, and the new one on 64 bit max if I need to use both plugins. If someone were to ask a difference between the plugins I would say:

 

Figments plugin works better for animating because you can scale\strech the skeletons, BUT the envelopes on this point in the direction of the pivot, and the scale can be borked from the start if you aren't using a clean skeleton, so it makes it annoying\unstable to skin with.

 

Therus plugin works better for rigging because the envelopes are where they belong, BUT it does not allow for scaling\stretch since a dummy does not have length or width properties.

[thatTESguy]

Nice info, will look into BonesPro. Not helped by the fact that there are (about) a half-dozen niftools versions for skyrim floating about, each with its own quirks.

[thatTESguy]

Oh yes (the part about 3ds max and crashing). I literally have half a dozen versions of each .max file, which are conveniently replicated across my various devices (using Bittorrent Sync) and encrypted, compressed, and backed up (Crashplan). And. Always. Save.

 

These things cause the most crashes, IMO:

- Skin utilities

- Symmetry (every. freaking. time).

- Working with meshsmooth/turbosmooth content

- Anything above BSDismember (do not EVER put anything above BSDismember)

- UVW Unwrap

 

On the other hand, Skin wrap had been pretty stable for me (hence why I use it and not skinutilities). Didn't try it on a unified mesh though.

 

3ds max isn't exactly a paragon of stability .. especially when hacked to edit model files like this (instead of using their "approved" formats).

 

[lostdaywalker]

I literally just had 3DSMax crap and die on me when I attempted to apply a Skin Wrap to a unified mesh and lost everything, 3DS didn't even have the ability to do an error recover scene.

 

Memory.  Number 1 issue when using skin wrap.  Also when I've done any major modifications to a mesh or its a newly created one, always collapse then smooth and then export and re-import the mesh.  Now skinwrap it. This step will solve most of you problems with that.  Used to have the same issue sometimes. Sometimes what you think is one mesh is actually two. 

 

 

 

These things cause the most crashes, IMO:

- Skin utilities

- Symmetry (every. freaking. time).

- Working with meshsmooth/turbosmooth content

- Anything above BSDismember (do not EVER put anything above BSDismember)

- UVW Unwrap

 

On the other hand, Skin wrap had been pretty stable for me (hence why I use it and not skinutilities). Didn't try it on a unified mesh though.

 

3ds max isn't exactly a paragon of stability .. especially when hacked to edit model files like this (instead of using their "approved" formats).

 

 

-skin utilites    --      Caused by memory issues and broken mesh.

 

-Symmetry       --     memory issue  Went to 8Gs never have any more problems. 

 

meshsmooth/Turbosmooth   --   memory issue   Turbo? not needed. 

 

Anything above BSdismember   --   Correct. Don't do it. 3ds does not understand it.

 

UVW Unwrap.    --    Memory issue.

[thatTESguy]

Not going to have any memory issues on this computer with 32GB / x64, but your suggestions about mesh collapsing and reimport are good. Most of the issues do crop up after I do several attach/detaches, use the Edit Poly tools, etc.

[lostdaywalker]

32/x64?  Yea, you should not have any memory issues. I can only speak from personal experience. As I went from 4 to 8 to 16, my issues went away. Only every once in a while do I crash. Usually when I'm watching You Tube on the other screen, downloading something, Photoshop open with a dozen .dds file in it, and a dozen memory sucking chrome windows open.

 

Don't forget to decrease the count on you autobackups. Never had a corrupt one yet. You can open it back up almost if not right where you left off.