toys Toys&Love LE & SE

[gregaaz]

18 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

I don't know much yet about ESLs, but have done some reading. I could be wrong about this and I'm open to thoughts learning more...

• Toys.ESM - its my understanding that while I could ESL flag it, that would be bad because any esp trying to use Toys.ESM would break, the ESM having no fixed spot
• ToyStory.ESP - Its small enough to be ESL flagged now, but Toy Story is only 1/3rd the size that I expect it to become. Being a quest mod using locations, the next 2 quests we add will grow it 2 or 3 X, and that will be soon. So I don't want to flag and then taketh away

Where I DO plan to use ESL, is for Toy Packs. This is where Toys will come in separate packs much like the concept of animation packs for Sexlab. Instead of growing the current base library of Toys bigger, and forcing people to DL all those toys, it can be far more of a pick and choose. That's why Toys already has the concept of "Sets", and in fact we will have 3 of those 4 sets in the base, but 1 becoming a pack for starters. We can provide toys in packs, plus other mod authors can. Since Toys are essentially armor, they DO require that a toy pack include a very simple ESP, but these can be ESL.

 

@VirginMarie thank you for getting right back to me on this!

 

I have some good news for you. Some of the information you were given is not entirely accurate. All files with ESL flags do still have a fixed place in load order. While the reserve range all starts with FE and then a three-byte index, they are interspersed in the normal load order. For example, see the snip below from my load order.

 

 

As you can see, Majestic Mountains has an ESL flag and is assigned the load order of FE049. Unless I change my load order, its form IDs will always start with FE049, so getformfromfile and similar functions can reliably register its form IDs. Of course, if people don't follow the golden rule they will still get in trouble just like with the original two-byte index. Moreover, in this configuration FE049 will always load after 13 and before 14, so wild record conflicts will not occur during the usual course of gameplay.

 

TL;DR: It's safe to put an ESL flag on scripted mods. The only time this becomes problematic is if the end user compacts the form IDs and then some other mod is looking for the original, uncompacted form ID. In that case, of course, the getformfromfile fails. This is why I always advocate for the author to use the FE reserved range for the "canonical" published version even if they don't flag it themselves so SSE users don't have to do a DIY form ID compacting job and risk compatibility problems. Since the ESL reserved range is also "legal" for normal plugins, this doesn't require you to fork your LE and SSE versions into separate form ID structures (as long as you compact both).

 

Now about Toy Story - I totally get what you are saying. While it appears there is a hacky way to go up to 4096 records, it isn't well tested yet and so it sounds like Toy Story will need to have its own plugin slot. But that's OK -- if its big enough to need those records, then it's big enough to deserve its own slot

 

Very happy to hear about the toy packs, that sounds like a fun idea!

 

I am taking notes on my experience with the SSE version of TOYS and Toy Story right now and I'll share them with you once I have completed some play time. So far, no issues except for some very basic 'situational awareness' stuff that is really up to the end user to fix, not you.

[VirginMarie]

9 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

It's safe to put an ESL flag on scripted mods. The only time this becomes problematic is if the end user compacts the form IDs and then some other mod is looking for the original, uncompacted form ID. In that case, of course, the getformfromfile fails. This is why I always advocate for the author to use the FE reserved range for the "canonical" published version even if they don't flag it themselves so SSE users don't have to do a DIY form ID compacting job and risk compatibility problems. Since the ESL reserved range is also "legal" for normal plugins, this doesn't require you to fork your LE and SSE versions into separate form ID structures (as long as you compact both).

Very helpful thank you. I will try it out, sounds like it will work very well. With the nature of a framework, Toys could grow lots but would never be too large to be ESL-ified. I will ESL flag it for Beta 2, and poke you if I have any problems.

 

9 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

I am taking notes on my experience with the SSE version of TOYS and Toy Story right now and I'll share them with you once I have completed some play time.

Great! thank you.

[gregaaz]

@VirginMarie, I played through the TOYS quest up to the Winterhold part where it currently ends. Here are my observations and a few screenshots showing the interaction between the different parts of the mod and the game world (and one of some shady Thalmor who had randomly killed someone and taken his clothing, for the lulz).

 

Observations

On my "main" 866 plugin load order, the master file had no record conflicts. MO2 reported no asset conflicts in any of the mods. 

 

Toy story had only a couple record conflicts, minor landscape/cell record issues. If it's helpful, I can send you my patch file. The specific conflicts:

 

00009B93 -- ToyStory reverts a water flow fix from Update.ESM 
00039AA9 -- ToyStory reverts a parent location tag that was added by the Unofficial Patch
00039850 -- Not a real conflict, but Toy Story contains a CELL record with vanilla data which will revert lighting mods. Users should create a bashed patch or load their lighting mod after yours (the latter is not such a clean solution because it relies on the lighting mod not having other bloat edits)

 

ARMA entries either use the female nif for the male model, or have no entry for male model. I recognize that adding male character support means twice as much work, but I hope in the future you'll consider it as a future enhancement since this is intended to serve as a framework mod. 

 

No errors reported by Bodyslide using the BHUNP files.
No issues with FNIS (other than usual complaints about too many animations)
No issues with NEMESIS; successfully detected and processed both TOYS and Toy Story

 

Started new character; ASLAL Sleeping Giant Inn start. Ran installation test; character disrobed and animated with minimal delay. No observed frame rate reduction while walking around Riverwood. Character observed looping self-touching animation idle afterwards, which persisted for a while.

 

Map Marker led to Helgen keep; works fine with a vanilla start, but be aware that ASLAL adds a collapsed tunnel section that blocks this approach. ASLAL users need to enter from the cave exit slightly north of town. Probably just needs an compatibility FYI, not reasonable to expect you to make programatic changes to accomodate a mod not everyone uses.

 

Chain physics appeared to be working fine with only minimal clipping during movement (not noticeable without really looking for it)

 

During phasing stone love, I observed noticeable (2-3 second) full world pauses between stages of animation. Standing stone phalli were slightly out of sync with body, but this is almost certainly a conflict with my skeleton mod and not an intrinsic issue with the animation. 

 

The exploding goop was noticeably delayed and the character briefly looped back to the start of the final animation stage before it played. Not sure if this is linked with the pausing during transitions issue described above. 

 

Nightly appears to have Dark Face Bug. Her facegen data may need to be regenerated for  SSE.

 

The nipple piercings appear to work fine with YPS Immersive Fashion, though it doesn't seem to detect them as nipple piercings either. This is probably actually a good thing since it'll reduce potential conflicts between the YPS nipple piercings and the piercings from other mods.

 

Gear melting at the left statue appears to be working properly. 

 

Nightly reappeared (and rudely pushed me into the water!) with a flock of ravens. The ravens were untextured (solid light purple). 

 

Vanilla clothing appeared to play nice with the toys -- no mesh escapes observed.

 

The default timing on arm binding idle changes seems a lot better than it was in pre-TOYS SLAV; I always had to increase the time intervals there to keep immersion. 

 

Pauses were frequent and very noticeable during the beginning of vanilla sexlab sex, during actor alignment. In fact, I wonder if actor alignment was also the point where the standing stone was pausing since the character seemed to move up or down slightly right after each pause (trying to align with the standing stone's projections, I assume). I did not observe pauses between animation stages in the vanilla scene.

 

 

Images:

 

Screenshot29: Shady Thalmor being Shady

Screenshot30: First equip of toys. Plays nice with Slot 52 SOS Pubic Hair

Screenshot31: Chain physics not going crazy

Screenshot33: Stone loving

Screenshot36: Nightly - note dark face bug

Screenshot37: First binding pose, playing nice with BHUNP body, no obvious major clipping issues

Screenshot39: First orgasm

Screenshot40: Outside, clothing working well with bindings

Screenshot41: Sexlab sex scene, toys not stripping or impeding the animation

 

 

 

 

[gregaaz]

Also, did I inadvertently give my test character Eddie Redmayne's face? lol

[Herowynne]

54 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

During phasing stone love, I observed noticeable (2-3 second) full world pauses between stages of animation.

Yes, that is the same screen freezing that I encountered during that phasing stone event.

[VirginMarie]

 

Great info. I will use it all. Going to reply where I have questions or feedback. Love the pictures. I do love pictures!

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Observations

On my "main" 866 plugin load order, the master file had no record conflicts. MO2 reported no asset conflicts in any of the mods. 

So a heavy load test, that's for sure

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

 

Toy story had only a couple record conflicts, minor landscape/cell record issues. If it's helpful, I can send you my patch file. The specific conflicts:

Hmmm I checked and did not find these conflicts. I'd like to see your patch file please.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

ARMA entries either use the female nif for the male model, or have no entry for male model. I recognize that adding male character support means twice as much work, but I hope in the future you'll consider it as a future enhancement since this is intended to serve as a framework mod. 

We plan to include a male toy or two by V1, and even have a Male/Futa Toys Pack, maybe shortly after if not in time. There's gender settings in MCM you will see on the last tab too. There will be cases of toys we can't make better, since some models are from inactive authors, but male/futa support is going to be good. Some toys will be female only, but some will be male only, and then some will actually fill both those ARMA slots.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

No issues with NEMESIS; successfully detected and processed both TOYS and Toy Story

Seems a little surprising. I don't expect it to work with Nemesis, as it can't deal with Alternate Animations yet, as far as I know but I could be out of date with that info.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Map Marker led to Helgen keep; works fine with a vanilla start, but be aware that ASLAL adds a collapsed tunnel section that blocks this approach. ASLAL users need to enter from the cave exit slightly north of town. 

I've tested with ASLAL, its normally in my load order. I've made sure the dead body is before that collapsed section. I was worried about this, so you have me wondering if there is something more to it, like if maybe the collapse happens at a point later than the point I've tested. I've tested the vanilla start too, but it must work with ASLAL. Can you check?

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

During phasing stone love, I observed noticeable (2-3 second) full world pauses between stages of animation. 

I don't see this but you are 2nd person to report this. Going to have to figure it out. I don't know how stage change is triggering lag. So far since release, this is the only thing reported that I don't know how to fix, yet.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

 

The exploding goop was noticeably delayed and the character briefly looped back to the start of the final animation stage before it played. Not sure if this is linked with the pausing during transitions issue described above. 

Maybe, or maybe its working as intended. Toy Story is re-equipping your toys from the virtual temporary storage during that period, which I did intentionally, but I might change that, have it happen after you land. Maybe its too much rendering at the same time and so slowing down the render of the toys and making the whole thing more delayed.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Nightly appears to have Dark Face Bug. Her facegen data may need to be regenerated for  SSE.

I was expecting this, but did not see it. I was sure I forced cleaned those folders so I could see it, but maybe I did not do that right. Will fix. Nightly is going to get a makeover eventually anyhow, maybe some sexy hair. In the meantime due to her ghostly effects, most people wont even notice

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

The nipple piercings appear to work fine with YPS Immersive Fashion, though it doesn't seem to detect them as nipple piercings either.

YPS probably is checking for DD keywords, and so wont find them.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

This is probably actually a good thing since it'll reduce potential conflicts between the YPS nipple piercings and the piercings from other mods.

What sort of conflicts? I'd think it be good if YPS detects Toys Nipple toys

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Nightly reappeared (and rudely pushed me into the water!) with a flock of ravens. The ravens were untextured (solid light purple). 

*giggles* She can be bratty, I applaud her! But I will fix those raven textures! Those ravens show up whenever she appears. You missed it on first meeting, too busy admiring her face?

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Pauses were frequent and very noticeable during the beginning of vanilla sexlab sex, during actor alignment. In fact, I wonder if actor alignment was also the point where the standing stone was pausing since the character seemed to move up or down slightly right after each pause (trying to align with the standing stone's projections, I assume). 

Seems related. I also don't see this when I test so its going to be hard to figure out when I can't recreate it, yet. Toys itself is doing literally nothing during a sexlab scene. It sees it as a busy state and so any events are shout down. The standing stone... Toys does on its own (no sexlab), but a sexlab scene, is of course a sexlab scene, so should not be related to Toys.

 

If you have a chance to try a test for me, could you try both the standing stone and a sexlab scene, nekid (no toys in play), but with Toys and Toy Story Installed. This would rule in or out, if a toy being equipped is related. You might even try to pin point which toy if it does make a difference.

 

24 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Screenshot39: First orgasm

 

This is my favorite screenshot. But don't tell anyone, it could blow my pure innocence reputation.

[gregaaz]

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

I've tested with ASLAL, its normally in my load order. I've made sure the dead body is before that collapsed section. I was worried about this, so you have me wondering if there is something more to it, like if maybe the collapse happens at a point later than the point I've tested. I've tested the vanilla start too, but it must work with ASLAL. Can you check?

 

On mine, the dead body was at the very end of the Helgen escape route, so past the bear chamber/wounded soldiers (Vanilla/ASLAL) scenes. This is the right place to put him, the only issue was the map marker, which routed me to the front door of the keep instead of the back of the escape tunnel. 

 

I'll give it a spin on Vanilla start. At best, I'll get you more data, at worst I'll be treated to hilarious physics fail in the cart scene.

 

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

I was expecting this, but did not see it. I was sure I forced cleaned those folders so I could see it, but maybe I did not do that right. Will fix. Nightly is going to get a makeover eventually anyhow, maybe some sexy hair. In the meantime due to her ghostly effects, most people wont even notice

 

In my experience converting mods from SSE, I often have to regenerate face gen for my NPCs in the CK even after running the conversion tools. I'm not sure why, might be something to do with the way the facegen nifs are structured?

 

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

What sort of conflicts? I'd think it be good if YPS detects Toys Nipple toys

 

YPS has some behavior where body jewelry won't stay attached to unpierced locations. It gets around this with devious devices by detecting their keyword and having them pierce you on the spot when they attach (which I imagine "pinches" a little). So without the DD keyword, you might get into a circular logic case where TOYS is trying to force-equip the piercings and YPS is trying to force-unequip them.

 

Though the ideal path forward would be the coordinate with the author of YPS to ensure that her mod supports TOYS. Since YPS is a must-have part of my load orders, I highly support this option

 

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Seems related. I also don't see this when I test so its going to be hard to figure out when I can't recreate it, yet. Toys itself is doing literally nothing during a sexlab scene. It sees it as a busy state and so any events are shout down. The standing stone... Toys does on its own (no sexlab), but a sexlab scene, is of course a sexlab scene, so should not be related to Toys.

 

If you have a chance to try a test for me, could you try both the standing stone and a sexlab scene, nekid (no toys in play), but with Toys and Toy Story Installed. This would rule in or out, if a toy being equipped is related. You might even try to pin point which toy if it does make a difference.

 

Sure, when I test the vanilla start I'll also try a few scenes with no toys involved.

 

Also, per your request please find my patch attached. 

TOYS_Testing_Temp.esp

[gregaaz]

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

Seems a little surprising. I don't expect it to work with Nemesis, as it can't deal with Alternate Animations yet, as far as I know but I could be out of date with that info.

 

It didn't report any errors, but that doesn't mean it processed 100% of the animations. I always run FNIS first, then NEMESIS, to ensure that any content they don't support yet gets processed. Somewhat more time consuming, but seems to get everything to play nice together.

[gregaaz]

Loaded up previous test character's last save in the abandoned prison (same load order). Ran ASLAL vanilla start.

 

Notwithstanding some minor glitches (carriage flipping over, control lockout when entering Helgen Keep -- typical vanilla start problems I'm certain aren't linked to TOYS) everything else went fine.

 

I hadn't noticed it last time but Forrien's corpse also has dark face bug.

 

After completing the starter dungeon, I triggered a regular sexlab scene (displayed a pause during actor alignment) and with the phasing stone (displayed pauses between stages). No toys equipped in either scene.

 

Screenshot 43 -- my character trying, and failing, to seduce Ralof. Perhaps she needs a bath after all that fighting

Screenshots 44-46 -- clearly the Thalmor are less picky

Screenshot 49 -- the phasing stone not sparing my character's bruised behind

[Herowynne]

2 hours ago, gregaaz said:

On mine, the dead body was at the very end of the Helgen escape route, so past the bear chamber/wounded soldiers (Vanilla/ASLAL) scenes. This is the right place to put him

 

I agree that is a good place to put the dead body, because it is away from the areas that other mods change, such as ASLAL and DCL.

 

 

3 hours ago, gregaaz said:

the only issue was the map marker, which routed me to the front door of the keep instead of the back of the escape tunnel. 

 

The map marker pointed to the cave exit for me.

 

For my testing, I used the ASLAL "Camping in the woods" start, which places you very close to the Helgen cave exit, and the map marker conveniently pointed to the cave exit.

[VirginMarie]

4 hours ago, Adetu said:

I am not sure, but "Devious devices" seems to be a little bit problematic with the newer versions (4.xx or 5.xx).

 

Just to one question - what happened if the devices are removed from some other mod ?

For example from an other mod using a papyrus command (remove ..) or from a loaded dll like Equipment durability system.

Toys won't be removed by console commands.

If another mod uses script to remove, it will succeed. I have no intention to prevent it because that brings worse conflicts than just allowing it, but other mods can choose to play nice and not do that. If other mods use Toys API, the "play nice" is built in.

 

Quote

Is it possible that parts of the scripts remain on the player or NPC in such a case ? (I guess with DD this can happen)

DD's are susceptible to "hidden part syndrome" because DDs use 2 parts, a render item and an inventory item. Toys uses a single part, like any vanilla armor, so there is no chance of this syndrome.

 

[VirginMarie]

4 hours ago, gregaaz said:

In my experience converting mods from SSE, I often have to regenerate face gen for my NPCs in the CK even after running the conversion tools. I'm not sure why, might be something to do with the way the facegen nifs are structured?

Easy to do, just have to remember. I put it in my check list now. I think its needed, guaranteed, because CK generates its own funky file names, and they are different between the 2 CKs.

 

4 hours ago, gregaaz said:

the ideal path forward would be the coordinate with the author of YPS to ensure that her mod supports TOYS. Since YPS is a must-have part of my load orders, I highly support this option

Yes If I did anything it would be this. YPS probably needs to do it on it's end, like was done for DD, unless it offers some feature/api, that Toys can use, but I won't make it a hard dependency. 

 

3 hours ago, gregaaz said:

I hadn't noticed it last time but Forrien's corpse also has dark face bug.

Oh I must have done that on purpose! The dragon fire in his face and all! I mean he's dead! What did you expect?

 

3 hours ago, gregaaz said:

After completing the starter dungeon, I triggered a regular sexlab scene (displayed a pause during actor alignment) and with the phasing stone (displayed pauses between stages). No toys equipped in either scene.

Ok so thank you for ruling out toys in Toys, although I was almost hoping that if Toys is causing this, its a specific toy. I've seen stranger things, caused by corrupt nifs in the past. So if its not a nif or even texture screwing with us, what the heck. I wonder have you for sure concluded that its only with Toys installed? Do you need one last test where you remove Toys, but keep everything else the same and see?

 

3 hours ago, gregaaz said:

Screenshots 44-46 -- clearly the Thalmor are less picky

Thalmors are pigs. Well, actually, all.... nevermind

 

1 hour ago, Herowynne said:

I agree that is a good place to put the dead body, because it is away from the areas that other mods change, such as ASLAL and DCL.

I will keep him there, he's cozy, and see if there are any other reports. Map markers system in Skyrim will sometime use a not so ideal spot, it screws up, this is not unusual, and the body was still found, so all is well.

 

[VirginMarie]

So how many people think Frostfall compatibility would be a big deal for Toys? Do we need a Wet and Hot feature?

[gregaaz]

4 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Ok so thank you for ruling out toys in Toys, although I was almost hoping that if Toys is causing this, its a specific toy. I've seen stranger things, caused by corrupt nifs in the past. So if its not a nif or even texture screwing with us, what the heck. I wonder have you for sure concluded that its only with Toys installed? Do you need one last test where you remove Toys, but keep everything else the same and see?

 

I don't recall having this issue previously, but I'll give it a spin and report back. There was definitely some "alignment time" at the start of scenes, but it never froze the game like this. However, perhaps something recently installed apart from TOYS snuck this in and I just didn't notice, so I'll test to be safe.

 

5 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

I will keep him there, he's cozy, and see if there are any other reports. Map markers system in Skyrim will sometime use a not so ideal spot, it screws up, this is not unusual, and the body was still found, so all is well.

 

Yeah, based on other feedback and reports, I'm pretty certain that the whole "map market at Helgen Keep" issue is an issue on my side. 

 

7 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Yes If I did anything it would be this. YPS probably needs to do it on it's end, like was done for DD, unless it offers some feature/api, that Toys can use, but I won't make it a hard dependency. 

 

Yeah, I strongly agree with you on this. Putting the interaction on the TOYS end introduces all sorts of risks if YPS makes structural changes in the future. Much better to just have it look for a keyword or something. The piercings seem to live in slot 51, which is the "consensus" nipple piercing location I generally see in DD or elsewhere, so I don't think they need any changes on your side... YPS just needs to understand what the ToysType_Nipples [KYWD:040038DC] keyword means.

 

On that topic, this is an example of how compacting the form IDs in the master will help. If YPS is looking for this keyword based on it being 0x0038DC and then I compact form IDs to reclaim the TOYS load order slot, then I will have to recompile the relevant script(s) in YPS to allow it to keep detecting that TOYS keyword. And I'll need to (remember to!!!!) do this again any time YPS makes updates to the relevant script.

[gregaaz]

11 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

So how many people think Frostfall compatibility would be a big deal for Toys? Do we need a Wet and Hot feature?

 

Yes please. It's probably more of a "nice to have" than a "must have", but especially with mods like Shout Like a Virgin that frequently keep the Dragonborn more or less naked, alternate ways to keep warm beyond those already provided by Sexlab Survival (which definitely help) would be good. SLAV trip to Haemar's Shame can be... interesting with Frostfall turned on (though a fur cloak helps)

[VirginMarie]

5 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

On that topic, this is an example of how compacting the form IDs in the master will help. If YPS is looking for this keyword based on it being 0x0038DC and then I compact form IDs to reclaim the TOYS load order slot, then I will have to recompile the relevant script(s) in YPS to allow it to keep detecting that TOYS keyword. And I'll need to (remember to!!!!) do this again any time YPS makes updates to the relevant script.

 

If you use this HasKeywordString - Form - Creation Kit instead then it wont care. But there are other things beyond keywords of course where this compacting thing sounds good.

[VirginMarie]

7 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

Yes please.

So how should it work. Arousal heats you? Toys that somehow are warm? hehe

[gregaaz]

6 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

 

If you use this HasKeywordString - Form - Creation Kit instead then it wont care. But there are other things beyond keywords of course where this compacting thing sounds good.

 

Thank you, I learned something new today!

 

2 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

So how should it work. Arousal heats you? Toys that somehow are warm? hehe

 

I think "Toys that are Warm" fits with the lore of the melting parts, and arousal heats you may end up being broken when characters get stuck in "high arousal cascade syndrome" and are stuck at high arousal frequently. Plus, "toys that are warm" helps keep the feature localized to TOYS content and doesn't create an extra feature that spills into other mods' desmesnes.

[VirginMarie]

36 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

I think "Toys that are Warm" fits with the lore of the melting parts, and arousal heats you may end up being broken when characters get stuck in "high arousal cascade syndrome" and are stuck at high arousal frequently. Plus, "toys that are warm" helps keep the feature localized to TOYS content and doesn't create an extra feature that spills into other mods' desmesnes.

 

Since ToysEffect_AroualTransform is working based on your arousal level, the melting toys are in fact all about arousal. So the troubles you mention are going to occur if tied directly to arousal, or to toys that melt. The difference would be needing to wear a toy that can melt. Melted toys are really just a visual indicator that your arousal has gone past the amount you've set in MCM.

 

Toys is trying to help take away some of that "high arousal cascade syndrome" by having the Spontaneous Orgasm which lowers it lots. You can't get away with keeping that high arousal while out in the snow, because even if nobody sexes it up with you, you are bound to eventually have a surprise moment of spontaneous orgasm! (unless you turn that off) Plus you can adjust the arousal increase caused by toys in MCM, and the decreases it gives.

 

So unless using a concept other than arousal, I'm tempted to do a bit of both, maybe a bit of warming from arousal directly, and then more from melted toys. These both connect to arousal, and toys, because must have toys on for Toys to impact arousal. 

[gregaaz]

1 minute ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Since ToysEffect_AroualTransform is working based on your arousal level, the melting toys are in fact all about arousal. So the troubles you mention are going to occur if tied directly to arousal, or to toys that melt. The difference would be needing to wear a toy that can melt. Melted toys are really just a visual indicator that your arousal has gone past the amount you've set in MCM.

 

Toys is trying to help take away some of that "high arousal cascade syndrome" by having the Spontaneous Orgasm with lowers it lots. You can't get away with keeping that high arousal while out in the snow, because even if nobody sexes it up with you, you are bound to eventually have a surprise moment of spontaneous orgasm! (unless you turn that off) Plus you can adjust the arousal increase caused by toys in MCM, and the decreases it gives.

 

So unless using a concept other than arousal, I'm tempted to so a bit of both, maybe a bit of warming from arousal directly, and then more from melted toys. These both connect to arousal, and toys, because must have toys on for Toys to impact arousal. 

 

I hadn't considered that aspect of the spontaneous orgasms. That's a very handy feature. 

 

The solution you described below in bold sounds feasible, especially if the power of the two component effects can be controlled by MCM. 

[VirginMarie]

12 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

 

I hadn't considered that aspect of the spontaneous orgasms. That's a very handy feature. 

 

The solution you described below in bold sounds feasible, especially if the power of the two component effects can be controlled by MCM. 

Ok but what about wetness?

[gregaaz]

10 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Ok but what about wetness?

 

I believe that Sexlab Survival already provides some functions to this effect, but there's no harm in including your own take on it. I can imagine that some folks might be intimidated by the scope of SLS and be happy to find an alternative. 

 

The ideal solution, of course, would be to analyze the SLS wetness approach and provide a feature that complements it or covers gaps in it. I'd have to research how SLS approaches this to develop a stronger opinion however. 

 

On further review, it seems like SLS' wetness management is very narrowly focused on bukakke for the most part, so I think if you added something along these lines (wetness from arousal, that is) you would be blazing new ground. Full speed ahead, I say - though I imagine it would not be a super high magnitude effect. The character would only be drenched in a figurative sense, I'd hope (some of those LL adds notwithstanding ?)

[VirginMarie]

8 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

The ideal solution, of course, would be to analyze the SLS wetness approach

Yes we need a wetness in SLS expert. I'm too innocent to even think about this.

 

Wet means cold gets colder in Frostfall, right? So if you are aroused and, umm.... wet from this, that's going to make you cold, offsetting the warming of arousal. But would it ever make you colder, in the opposite direction, or just offset it (an offset is really just less warming and not a feature other than how you adjust warming). Maybe it's when you get really really wet from like, umm... releasing? that the cold is going to take a nasty turn.

[gregaaz]

Just now, VirginMarie said:

Yes we need a wetness in SLS expert. I'm too innocent to even think about this.

 

Wet means cold gets colder in Frostfall, right? So if you are aroused and, umm.... wet from this, that's going to make you cold, offsetting the warming of arousal. But would it ever reduce warmth, or just offset it (an offset is really just less warming). Maybe it's when you get really really wet from like, umm... releasing? that the cold is going to take a nasty turn.

 

I updated my original response. It looks like SLS wetness is mostly bukakke related, so outside that fetish I don't believe SLS will step on your toes.

 

Wet & Cold the mod I believe is only visual effects and doesn't directly interface with Frostfall. However, Frostfall itself has a wetness meter and it influences how quickly the character loses warmth. As I write this and think through the mechanics, I'm not sure wetness needs to have its own effect (unless you want it for dramatic effect with the wetness meter getting engaged). The reason I say this is that without a hook to Dripping While Aroused, basic Sexlab only has wetness effects on orgasm... and you'll already see a change in cold resistance when the satisfied character's arousal (and therefor arousal-based warmth) drops sharply. 

 

Of course, this isn't accounting for porno-fantasy fetish cases where the character is emitting huge amounts of fluids, but then you're getting back into the bukakke stuff that SLS already covers. 

 

TL;DR -- if you already have arousal->warmth mechanics, then at least in vanilla Sexlab you probably don't need a separate wetness feature. But the devil's in the details of how you implement it. 

[VirginMarie]

For people interested in SLaV's transition to using Toys, I've posted a  Seeking Feedback post, since I'm in the depths of making SLaV 8.0 using Toys, for LE and SE.